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Author Topic: Probably been exhausted, but I don't care  (Read 6893 times)

ThinWhiteDuke09

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Probably been exhausted, but I don't care
« on: 05 Oct 2007, 18:44 »

I just discovered Bukowski, via tales of ordinary madness.  Fucking brilliant.  This is one of the greatest peices of work I have ever read.  What a badass.
« Last Edit: 10 Oct 2007, 16:58 by Inlander »
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Ishotdanieljohnston

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #1 on: 08 Oct 2007, 00:47 »

yeah i went through this phase of liking Bukowski and then realised he was nothing more than a cockhead. His poetry is predictable and boringly arrogant and obnoxious, he milked his little talented with shock value and made people feel special because they could actually understan what he was on about. I think he looks particularly unimpressive if seen next to his counter cultural counterparts like R. Crumb, Phillip Larkin, William S. Burroughs, Tim leary and John Berryman (among others). I  know you'll all disagree with me but at least i've provided a point of discussion.
« Last Edit: 08 Oct 2007, 00:49 by Ishotdanieljohnston »
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öde

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #2 on: 08 Oct 2007, 02:10 »

and made people feel special because they could actually understan what he was on about.

This is something that really annoys me about art. Why do some people think things have to be wrapped up in subtle layers of meaning and require extensive study to decipher? Art is about communicating/representing ideas and messages, not forming elite clubs of people who 'get you'.

Also, Larkin is awesome.
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Ishotdanieljohnston

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #3 on: 08 Oct 2007, 02:28 »

and made people feel special because they could actually understan what he was on about.

This is something that really annoys me about art. Why do some people think things have to be wrapped up in subtle layers of meaning and require extensive study to decipher? Art is about communicating/representing ideas and messages, not forming elite clubs of people who 'get you'.

Also, Larkin is awesome.


Indeed he is.
« Last Edit: 08 Oct 2007, 19:18 by Ishotdanieljohnston »
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öde

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #4 on: 08 Oct 2007, 02:57 »

Quoting the above post is like repeating what someone says before screaming at them.

Also, your English: what is up with that?
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ThinWhiteDuke09

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #5 on: 08 Oct 2007, 13:02 »

I don't know, I feel like he's reaally culturally relavent, I mean he set up the ground work for people like Tucker Max and Chad Kultgen, although I feel as though he's able to explore the human condition a bit better.  As for the shock value, thats the kind of thing that I really like, and Bukowski is a master at it.  I haven't really read his poetry, but its pretty hard for me to find a poem I like so I can't gaurentee I'll be into it.  Plus the fact that he's only able to write while drunk, and he always woke up in the morning not knowing how much he had written the night before just makes him badass.
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Joseph

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #6 on: 08 Oct 2007, 15:12 »

If you think that sort of stuff makes him worth reading, you really need to check out some William S. Burroughs.  Really badly.
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Inlander

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #7 on: 08 Oct 2007, 19:14 »

Quoting the above post is like repeating what someone says before screaming at them.

Also, your English: what is up with that?

What is this, everyone act like an arsehole month? I'm seeing a lot of crankiness recently from people who are normally all right. Cool it, people. Please.
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Joseph

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #8 on: 08 Oct 2007, 23:16 »

It's because sack up week just finished.  I imagine a lot of people failed at their sacking up and are angry.  And others have put so much effort into sacking up that they are cranky and exhausted.  That's my theory of it, anyhow.
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ThinWhiteDuke09

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #9 on: 09 Oct 2007, 00:04 »

sack up week?  Is this some sort of reigonal term?
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bryanthelion

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #10 on: 09 Oct 2007, 03:10 »

Theres this woman poet, and her name is comprised of like 3 letters "ida" or something  like that..

anywho, she wrote a 4 page poem  about pedophile priests... Is that shocking enough?
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Joseph

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #11 on: 09 Oct 2007, 07:12 »

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Darby Crashed

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #12 on: 10 Oct 2007, 08:56 »

I don't know, I feel like he's reaally culturally relavent, I mean he set up the ground work for people like Tucker Max and Chad Kultgen, although I feel as though he's able to explore the human condition a bit better.  As for the shock value, thats the kind of thing that I really like, and Bukowski is a master at it.  I haven't really read his poetry, but its pretty hard for me to find a poem I like so I can't gaurentee I'll be into it.  Plus the fact that he's only able to write while drunk, and he always woke up in the morning not knowing how much he had written the night before just makes him badass.


I really love Bukowski, but honestly all the reasons you're mentioning are the reasons that I think he's given a bad name in the literary community. I don't think that he wrote with the intent of shock value, as that would likely entail that he was doing so merely to boost book sales (he wrote for many many years without even being published). Most of what seems like "shock value" is just him being honest; he wasn't a classy bloke, he wasn't sophisticated. He drank and fucked and slept on park benches.

But this is where I think some of Bukowski's best merits come from. For all the filth and obscenity that runs through his work, there is an inherent beauty behind it all, a simplistic, stained grace that transcends the dense indecipherable lines that have constituted much of poetry, both modern and in history. Bukowski was the first poet that I felt really spoke to me, that inspired me to express myself and to appreciate poetry as something more than a bunch of musty intellectuals jacking off to how great they are (which, admittedly, Bukowski did a bit of).

I don't guess I know how to explain it, exactly, but Bukowski really inspired something wonderful in me that I still carry on today. He changed the way I thought about life and art, and also is more or less responsible for me seeking out nearly all the other writers I now love.

Also, as a note: if you havent read Bukowski's poetry, you know nothing of his work. That is not to say that his prose isn't fantastic, it is, but I feel that to understand who Bukowski was you have to be exposed to his poetry. But give it a try, thinwhiteduke, you'll probably love it; as I mentioned, its not much like what is commonly thought of as "poetry", and has much of the same narrative structure as his prose.
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Joseph

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #13 on: 10 Oct 2007, 09:44 »

Oh, and if we're going to talk about being honest, not being a classy bloke, coming from a background of drinking, fucking, sleeping on park benches, etcetera, you should also go pick up "Last Exit To Brooklyn" by Hubert Selby Jr.
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Darby Crashed

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #14 on: 10 Oct 2007, 12:44 »

Seconded. Great book, great author. Better than Requiem in my opinion.

Also, TWD, could I possibly persuade you to fix the spelling of "exhausted" in the thread title? It's kind of bothering me.
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Inlander

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Re: Probably been exhausted, but I don't care
« Reply #15 on: 10 Oct 2007, 16:59 »

I did it! I can do that now! It made me tingly.
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Darby Crashed

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Re: Probably been exhausted, but I don't care
« Reply #16 on: 11 Oct 2007, 00:48 »

Thanks, Inlander!

also, I just noticed.... Tucker Max? Thats really where you're going to go with that?
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Ishotdanieljohnston

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Re: Probably been exaughsted, but I don't care
« Reply #17 on: 11 Oct 2007, 01:08 »

Oh, and if we're going to talk about being honest, not being a classy bloke, coming from a background of drinking, fucking, sleeping on park benches, etcetera, you should also go pick up "Last Exit To Brooklyn" by Hubert Selby Jr.

Oh man, i love Sleby jr! Last Exit's got to be an all time favourite.
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ThinWhiteDuke09

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Re: Probably been exhausted, but I don't care
« Reply #18 on: 11 Oct 2007, 09:07 »

also, I just noticed.... Tucker Max? Thats really where you're going to go with that?

I'm not trying to compare the two by any means, but I have to assume that Tucker Max was inspired at some point by Bukowski.  Stylistically, they're pretty similar although on completely different literary levels.

I've also started to read some of his poetry, I'm pretty into it so far, I wish this was required reading back in high school instead of Frost.
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Joseph

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Re: Probably been exhausted, but I don't care
« Reply #19 on: 11 Oct 2007, 10:56 »

Frost > Bukowski
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ThinWhiteDuke09

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Re: Probably been exhausted, but I don't care
« Reply #20 on: 11 Oct 2007, 11:22 »

Frost > Bukowski

I don't know, I find Frost to be cliche and boring at best.  We get it, nature is beautiful, I stopped giving a shit 40 poems ago.
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Johnny C

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Re: Probably been exhausted, but I don't care
« Reply #21 on: 11 Oct 2007, 14:38 »

When you show me the story where Frost pushes a friend in front of a bus to get drinking money I'll agree with you.
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Inlander

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Re: Probably been exhausted, but I don't care
« Reply #22 on: 11 Oct 2007, 18:02 »

I don't know, I find Frost to be cliche and boring at best.  We get it, nature is beautiful, I stopped giving a shit 40 poems ago.

Dude, seriously, read a bit about Frost's life, paying special attention to the sheer number of tragic and untimely deaths of close family members he witnessed, then re-read the poems and tell me seriously if "nature is beautiful" is the only thing you get out of them.
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Joseph

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Re: Probably been exhausted, but I don't care
« Reply #23 on: 11 Oct 2007, 18:16 »

Then read 'Stopping By Woods On A Snowy Evening' a few times.  Because seriously, that poem is gorgeous.
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