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Author Topic: The whole downloading music thing...  (Read 26077 times)

StaedlerMars

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #100 on: 07 Nov 2007, 12:03 »

About that, I know a guy that has 3 TB of music and videos. That's 3000 GBs of music and videos. I think that's already a pretty all-encompassing amount right there.

I have no idea if he's ever listened/seen it all.
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tommydski

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #101 on: 07 Nov 2007, 12:57 »

Right. Let's assume that before 2017 that such a capacity will be peanuts.

Certainly the current rate of technological evolution suggests it will be.
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qiZzer

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #102 on: 07 Nov 2007, 20:23 »

This is ridicules the way this society functions is the people provided goods and services for profit weather you like it or not that is the expection and that is their right. Pardon but i belive that the right to distribution lies with the creator , they spent their time they should decide if you get it for free. Forcing your ideals on others intentions is wrong. I agree with the quote "[if] The concept of theft would become ridiculous. The concept of wealth would go out the window, along with the primary way society rewards people for hard work and risk and innovation."
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thehollow

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #103 on: 07 Nov 2007, 20:48 »

Distribution rights aren't held by the creator as it is, they're held by the record labels.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #104 on: 07 Nov 2007, 20:55 »

All the music ever on a device is still a few decades in the future.  Not to mention that advances in AI will make music get produced much faster than ever before in the future (so there will be more of it) -- or other unforseen increases in the amount of data you'd have to store.

Remember, data expands to fill available storage.
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tommydski

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #105 on: 07 Nov 2007, 21:05 »

This is ridicules the way this society functions is the people provided goods and services for profit weather you like it or not that is the expection and that is their right.

The way society functions might be unsuitable for some people and they could instigate a sea change. Remember that society itself could be fundamentally flawed in the first place. Things change fairly quickly these days. Think of how quickly the civil rights movement happened in America. Or female suffrage. These are examples of mass changes in the way a majority of people think as initiated by a minority. Similarly, just because people have an "expectation" it does not mean they have not reached it through erroneous or misguided conclusions.

Forcing your ideals on others intentions is wrong.

Wouldn't this work both ways? I for one am pretty tired of being told what I should believe when it comes to this issue. You'd be amazed how little I care about the pre-conceived notions of society on this of all subjects.

I agree with the quote "[if] The concept of theft would become ridiculous. The concept of wealth would go out the window, along with the primary way society rewards people for hard work and risk and innovation."

First of all, the argument of whether file-sharing is actually theft is still up in the air. As we've discussed, nothing is actually missing from a shelf, it is just a bunch of binary that combines to form a sound file. Second of all, the music industry definitely, definitely does not reward "hard work and risk and innovation". It seems to reward pandering, self-indulgence and all manner of other excesses which have brought it to the point we find ourselves at today.
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qiZzer

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #106 on: 07 Nov 2007, 22:28 »


you all make great points but....
while  i can agree that the music biz not always beneficial to the artist but in term of monetary gain it can be better than going unsigned (plus the legal benfis)t. Any ways are you arguing that data can be property, ok that go with that for a bit. With this reasoning than  identity theft isn't a crime, because they didn't take anything concrete they didnt take your body or face and  they didt take actul money from you they just stole data. Yes i agree the system needs a change but letting the old one crash and burn so you can rebuild a new doesn't work. Thats how Hitler came to power and we can all agree that he was worse of than prewar geramny. All im saying is that much of our live are turning into binary and if even if the world start to think that its not property were gonna end up in  a system thats abused by the powers at be then if we just reconised it as property. Communism tryed that and I hate  to break it too ya but it didn't work
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jeph

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #107 on: 07 Nov 2007, 22:36 »

Oh my gosh I think Godwin's Law just kicked in!

Discussion over.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #108 on: 07 Nov 2007, 23:25 »

How did this of all threads get Godwon?

Jeez.
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Mnementh

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #109 on: 07 Nov 2007, 23:45 »

INTERNET.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #110 on: 07 Nov 2007, 23:53 »

?
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #111 on: 08 Nov 2007, 02:11 »

Wow.

Also, Hitler did not 'destroy the old system', he exploited flaws in the Weimar constitution to bring himself to power legally. If you are going to bring history of entirely no relevance into a thread, then at least make sure you are using history that bears a vague relationship to the real world, kay?
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #112 on: 08 Nov 2007, 02:14 »

I've now got this mental image of Hitler downloading Metallica albums while he cackles with glee. Meanwhile Lars Ulrich sheds a single tear for a doomed world that just didn't understand his true purpose.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #113 on: 08 Nov 2007, 04:24 »

we're all focusing on the Hitler part but nobody noticed the part where he called us all communists
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qiZzer

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #114 on: 08 Nov 2007, 04:38 »

dam it i had not intention of set off godwins law and i did not wan tto shut down the  thread. In my post I did not call any one a Nazi, or a commie i never attacked anyone, i was just trying to set a president. But apparently  using a WWII reference was wrong. Ok how about When coke tried a new formula that was a disaster. Only assholes resort to name calling and personal insults, I'm sorry that what it turned into therefore i remove my self from the conversation out of respect for others, all im going to say did anyone get what i was trying to say about the importance of data as property of the owner and/or creator? (is that better grammar for you)
« Last Edit: 08 Nov 2007, 06:40 by qiZzer »
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #115 on: 08 Nov 2007, 04:57 »

It's really hard to work out, your spelling and grammar are so bad it's borderline gibberish. It seems to be based almost entirely on a woeful misunderstanding of history but that's about as far as I can get.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #116 on: 08 Nov 2007, 06:51 »

i was just trying to set a president.

As they say, to catch a thief set a...president?
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #117 on: 08 Nov 2007, 09:04 »

dam it i had not intention of set off godwins law and i did not wan tto shut down the  thread. In my post I did not call any one a Nazi, or a commie i never attacked anyone, i was just trying to set a president. But apparently  using a WWII reference was wrong. Ok how about When coke tried a new formula that was a disaster. Only assholes resort to name calling and personal insults, I'm sorry that what it turned into therefore i remove my self from the conversation out of respect for others, all im going to say did anyone get what i was trying to say about the importance of data as property of the owner and/or creator? (is that better grammar for you)

Yeah, that's readable now. The argument isn't very well constructed though, so I still don't see the importance of what you're saying or the reasoning behind it.
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Mnementh

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #118 on: 08 Nov 2007, 10:54 »

As they say, to catch a thief set a...president?

There is an election 2000 joke in here that I'm just not smart enough to make.
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tommydski

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #119 on: 08 Nov 2007, 11:15 »

Yeah I spent like five minutes trying to word it myself and then gave up.
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StaedlerMars

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #120 on: 08 Nov 2007, 11:47 »

I think what he is getting at is that it's hard to draw the line between data and actual property. He used identity theft as an example, which I believe isn't a bad call. Identity theft is just the stealing of binary files. Yet it's definitely theft. In a weird way it's comparable to downloading. I think it's possibly the best argument against the 'mp3s are just binary code' put forwards so far.

However, that isn't to say that I agree with the idea that the enormous datafile isn't going to happen. Most music can already be found of it. Like tommy said, with download speeds increasing, getting access to almost unlimited amounts of music in a heartbeat isn't such an obscure thought. Last night I had the surprising pleasure of having an 8mbs connection. This is a song in half a second.  In ten years time who knows...
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tommydski

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #121 on: 08 Nov 2007, 11:57 »

Identity theft is used to commit fraud, which is a tangible crime.

I'm not using MP3s to commit fraud.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #122 on: 08 Nov 2007, 12:52 »

The argument about data being the property of the creator has been made already. It doesn't hold in my book. The creator of antiretroviral drugs owns them. Lots of people have died because cheap copies could not be made. This is a bad thing.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #123 on: 08 Nov 2007, 13:21 »

Identity theft is used to commit fraud, which is a tangible crime.

I'm not using MP3s to commit fraud.

yeah if identity thieves just re-posted the identities on private trackers for other identity-lovers to read the information and enjoy and never do anything illegal with, it would not be such an issue

interesting thought experiment but poor analogy I'm afraid

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #124 on: 08 Nov 2007, 17:10 »

you know what you guys are

is a bunch of fucking fascists
 :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police:

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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #125 on: 08 Nov 2007, 17:21 »

Happy, Frankie Goes To Hollywood styled fascists apparently.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #126 on: 09 Nov 2007, 14:53 »

jeph,

Don't call us mere fascists.  We are Hitler communist fascists who steal music.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #127 on: 09 Nov 2007, 18:53 »

Happy, Frankie Goes To Hollywood styled fascists apparently.
formally known as Hollycaust.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #128 on: 10 Nov 2007, 11:09 »

I'm not using MP3s to commit fraud.

YOU ARE DEFRAUDING YOUR EARS INTO BELIEVING YOU BOUGHT THE CD.

THOUGHTCRIME DOES NOT ENTAIL DEATH: THOUGHTCRIME IS DEATH.
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #129 on: 10 Nov 2007, 12:25 »

jeph,

Don't call us mere fascists.  We are Hitler communist fascists who steal music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb6q_aplycA
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Re: The whole downloading music thing...
« Reply #130 on: 10 Nov 2007, 13:31 »

If by downloading a cd illegally I am stealing because the fact that I didn't pay for it costs the labels money, well, I would have cost them the same money either way. Because I wouldn't have bought a completely unfamiliar CD for such high prices. So, I cost the label the same amount of money either way, but by downloading the CD I am much more likely to buy tickets to that band when the have a concert near me. I am more likely to buy a t-shirt. I am even more likely to buy the CD itself, because I want it and it has pretty cover art that I wouldn't have cared about in the first place, had I never gotten into that band.

So, illegal downloading benifits the artists and screws the labels over. I would totally download music illegally if I weren't technologically illiterate. Now, back to my sad existence of paying for music.
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