Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

  • 18 Jan 2021, 05:07
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: What is art?  (Read 14935 times)

iliketodraw

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
What is art?
« on: 06 Sep 2007, 19:05 »

As the title says, at what point do you think something becomes art/no longer art?
Logged

3Z3VH

  • FIGHT YOU
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 396
  • WoSaT
    • http://www.everlan.net
Re: What is art?
« Reply #1 on: 07 Sep 2007, 00:07 »

When a single, sane, and also objective person considers it art, it is art.
Logged
With every small decision: if you change a heart, you change the world.

ThePQ4

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 800
Re: What is art?
« Reply #2 on: 07 Sep 2007, 07:59 »

Hmmm...I think the word "sane" could be questionable... Lots of crazy people are 'artists  (and rather good ones, really...), or art appreciators. Essentric perhaps would be a good word.
Logged

valley_parade

  • coprophage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,320
Re: What is art?
« Reply #3 on: 07 Sep 2007, 08:17 »

*shrug* Art is really what you make it.

I've really broadened my horizons as to what "art" actually is since the Museum of Contemporary Art opened up in town. There's some pretty interesting stuff in there that most people wouldn't really call "art", but to each their own, I guess.
Logged
Wait so you're letting something that happened 10 years ago ruin your quality of life? What are you, America? :psyduck:

Lines

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,330
Re: What is art?
« Reply #4 on: 07 Sep 2007, 10:36 »

As someone who is about to start her senior year in college as an art student, that's a really hard question to answer. It really depends on the individual viewer to decide, IMO.

This is how I go about determining if something is art: If the person who made it calls it art, I will then determine if I think it is or isn't. If they say it isn't art, I may be able to find it beautiful, but it won't be art. Now this doesn't mean I think all ready-mades are art, because most of the time I think they are crap and someone trying to take an easy way out of actually making art. There's also different levels to art: popular/mass art, fine/high art, and then low/kitsch, etc. And something can still be art even though it's crap, even though that is one thing I completely disagree with (especially most Minimalist and Dadaist art, because I hate it so much).
Logged
:grumpypuss: :grumpypuss: :grumpypuss:

Caiphana

  • Curry sauce
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 257
  • WHOOSH
    • dA
Re: What is art?
« Reply #5 on: 07 Sep 2007, 10:59 »

This reminds me of the discussion regarding what should be considered a sport and what shouldn't.

If your heart doesn't start beating at a higher rate, is it a sport? Is bowling just a skilled activity? What about cheerleading?

Anyway, art. I say to each his own. If it took someone a significant amount of thought to create something, it's art. Thought is the most important part in art; that's why modern art can be art. You see a fork glued to a plate with a glue gun. The artist sees a commentary on how shallow the world is because all we see is [pretentious voice] a fork on a plate! BAH! [/pretentiousness].
Logged
..so long as the word "cookie" is in your country's vocabulary, it's an okay place to be.

Those who forget the past may be doomed to repeat it, but those who refuse to learn from the past and move on are fucking idiots.

melmenetkwe

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
Re: What is art?
« Reply #6 on: 07 Sep 2007, 11:08 »

Okay, so I finsihed curating an art show about 6 or so months ago, and we looked at over 200 possible pieces of art, and really, my opinion of art is something that has meaning to it. Whether it be the artist trying to say that their favourite food is maccoroni and cheese, or Billy-Joe-Bob was the one who committed the murder of his wife Mary Sue, or some sort of silent protest to society, or getting some personal experience out or WHATEVER! But for me, in order for it to be art, it has to have meaning, or some sort of symbolism to it. JMO.
Logged

Lines

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,330
Re: What is art?
« Reply #7 on: 07 Sep 2007, 15:39 »

If I worked in a gallery and someone sent in a proposal involving a fork glued to a plate with hot glue, I wouldn't bother considering them. Craft is important. (I know it's just an example, I'm not singling you out, but people who do things like that irritate me.) If it was a fork on a plate that the person had actually made themselves and attached in a manner not involving glue, now that's different, but if there was no apparent effort in the making of art or even conceptualizing it, then it's nothing worth considering as art.
Logged
:grumpypuss: :grumpypuss: :grumpypuss:

cTony

  • Guest
Re: What is art?
« Reply #8 on: 13 Sep 2007, 15:35 »

To me, its some implicit or abstract (or something like that) expression of an idea or (particularly important to me) emotion.
The semantics can get in the way, and to each person there can be a unique first hand interpretation.
When emotion is conveyed effectively, an expression can reach a ubiquitous meaning (although that depends on the morales and emotional expectancies of society and is thereby tailored to that). For me, Thats enough.
Logged

Emaline

  • Lovecraftian nightmare
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,826
  • Drink, Drank, DRUNK
Re: What is art?
« Reply #9 on: 13 Sep 2007, 23:05 »

Logged
little bitty bird, with the flaxen hair, can i help you with the weight of the cross you bear?

ViolentDove

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,418
Re: What is art?
« Reply #10 on: 13 Sep 2007, 23:41 »



Art is anything you say it is and/or present as such. Also, if anyone has a photo of the performance artists that pissed in Duchamp's urinal, I'd be much obliged.
« Last Edit: 13 Sep 2007, 23:49 by ViolentDove »
Logged
With cake ownership set to C and cake consumption set to K, then C + K = 0.  So indeed as one consumes a cake, one simultaneously deprives oneself of cake ownership. 

ALoveSupreme

  • Beyoncé
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 722
    • http://www.facebook.com/heyheyrabbit
Re: What is art?
« Reply #11 on: 22 Sep 2007, 16:34 »

Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,017
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Re: What is art?
« Reply #12 on: 22 Sep 2007, 17:42 »

As far as I'm concerned, art is any designed artifact. A garden is art. A house is art. McDonalds cartons are art. Margin doodles are art. Really, this has been the philosophical consensus, if you stop and think things through carefully, for about 80 years. Ever since things like fountain started appearing recently. That is, after all, the point of fountain: that the dividing line between 'art' and 'not art' is entirely arbitrary, and thus meaningless. The point isn't the urinal, but the signature. 

Once you accept this point, that all human creativity can be considered as art, then everything actually becomes a lot simpler, because then you can have some actually interesting discussions, because the issue then becomes not 'what is art', but 'how do we define quality in art'. Quality of thought, of execution? How do we present art? and so on. It also makes things a lot more objective. We no longer see a need to venerate poor art simply for being radical, unless there is a further dimension of thought behind that radicality. An argument we've had here before revolves around the fact that I think that this is utter drivel:



Whereas this is one of the cleverest and most intriguing works of art of all time:



Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Barmymoo

  • Mentat
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,979
Re: What is art?
« Reply #13 on: 23 Sep 2007, 12:47 »

That's an excellent point about human creativity but I'm afraid I don't see how a glass on a shelf is more art than three rectangles of colour. Personally I feel more emotionally moved by the colour. Not that you're wrong, just that my concept of art is different.
Logged
There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

schimmy

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 931
Re: What is art?
« Reply #14 on: 23 Sep 2007, 13:27 »

I don't think he was saying either piece is any 'more' or 'less' art than the other, he was just saying he preferred the second piece.
I prefer the second piece as well, as it happens. I've seen quite a few paintings like the first one, but I have never seen any art like the second, and that makes it exciting to me.
And that, to me, is what art should aim to be; exciting and innovative. Beyond that, nothing matters, everything is art.
Logged

Darkbluerabbit

  • Cthulhu f'tagn
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • SKULL BABIES!
Re: What is art?
« Reply #15 on: 23 Sep 2007, 17:22 »

Sweet.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who is less than enthused by dada art.  I think "art" is a silly term and is very abstract and subjective by definition.  I think there's some crap out there that shouldn't qualify as art, but that is just my opinion. 

"I don't need to explain my art to you, Warren."
- AJ, while superglueing quarters to floor"
 Empire Records.
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,017
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Re: What is art?
« Reply #16 on: 25 Sep 2007, 10:12 »

Ah well, the thing about the glass of water (Which is, by the way, a work called 'An Oak Tree' by Michael Craig-Martin), is you really have to read the accompanying text:

Q. To begin with, could you describe this work?

A. Yes, of course. What I've done is change a glass of water into a full-grown oak tree without altering the accidents of the glass of water.

Q. The accidents?

A. Yes. The colour, feel, weight, size ...

Q. Do you mean that the glass of water is a symbol of an oak tree?

A. No. It's not a symbol. I've changed the physical substance of the glass of water into that of an oak tree.

Q. It looks like a glass of water.

A. Of course it does. I didn't change its appearance. But it's not a glass of water, it's an oak tree.

Q. Can you prove what you've claimed to have done?

A. Well, yes and no. I claim to have maintained the physical form of the glass of water and, as you can see, I have. However, as one normally looks for evidence of physical change in terms of altered form, no such proof exists.

Q. Haven't you simply called this glass of water an oak tree?

A. Absolutely not. It is not a glass of water anymore. I have changed its actual substance. It would no longer be accurate to call it a glass of water. One could call it anything one wished but that would not alter the fact that it is an oak tree.

Q. Isn't this just a case of the emperor's new clothes?

A. No. With the emperor's new clothes people claimed to see something that wasn't there because they felt they should. I would be very surprised if anyone told me they saw an oak tree.

Q. Was it difficult to effect the change?

A. No effort at all. But it took me years of work before I realised I could do it.

Q. When precisely did the glass of water become an oak tree?

A. When I put the water in the glass.

Q. Does this happen every time you fill a glass with water?

A. No, of course not. Only when I intend to change it into an oak tree.

Q. Then intention causes the change?

A. I would say it precipitates the change.

Q. You don't know how you do it?

A. It contradicts what I feel I know about cause and effect.

Q. It seems to me that you are claiming to have worked a miracle. Isn't that the case?

A. I'm flattered that you think so.

Q. But aren't you the only person who can do something like this?

A. How could I know?

Q. Could you teach others to do it?

A. No, it's not something one can teach.

Q. Do you consider that changing the glass of water into an oak tree constitutes an art work?

A. Yes.

Q. What precisely is the art work? The glass of water?

A. There is no glass of water anymore.

Q. The process of change?

A. There is no process involved in the change.

Q. The oak tree?

A. Yes. The oak tree.

Q. But the oak tree only exists in the mind.

A. No. The actual oak tree is physically present but in the form of the glass of water. As the glass of water was a particular glass of water, the oak tree is also a particular oak tree. To conceive the category 'oak tree' or to picture a particular oak tree is not to understand and experience what appears to be a glass of water as an oak tree. Just as it is imperceivable it also inconceivable.

Q. Did the particular oak tree exist somewhere else before it took the form of a glass of water?

A. No. This particular oak tree did not exist previously. I should also point out that it does not and will not ever have any other form than that of a glass of water.

Q. How long will it continue to be an oak tree?

A. Until I change it.




The man is clearly a fucking genius.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

schimmy

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 931
Re: What is art?
« Reply #17 on: 25 Sep 2007, 14:17 »

That is actually amazing.
Logged

MusicScribbles

  • 1-800-SCABIES
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 813
  • John Milton was a punk rocker.
Re: What is art?
« Reply #18 on: 25 Sep 2007, 20:54 »

Minds are blown every day by a metaphysical cock. This isn't science, it's philosophy. A way of life.
Logged
Quote from: Tommydski
Listen to SLOAN you CUNTS.

Lines

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,330
Re: What is art?
« Reply #19 on: 26 Sep 2007, 07:08 »

Then it seems that the piece that is on the wall is nothing without the accompanying statement, so they have to be seen together, or it's not really anything but a glass on a shelf or some written nonsense, whichever one you see without the other. I'm one of those people who is more moved by a traditional piece, so I lean a lot more towards the Rothko. I can tell that there was a lot of thought put into 'An Oak Tree', but I don't like the end product of it.
Logged
:grumpypuss: :grumpypuss: :grumpypuss:

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,017
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Re: What is art?
« Reply #20 on: 26 Sep 2007, 08:16 »

And what's wrong with the piece having more than one component, or depending on context?

If we're talking traditional paintings, any single pre-raphaelite completely dicks over Rothko.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Lines

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,330
Re: What is art?
« Reply #21 on: 26 Sep 2007, 18:24 »

If I hadn't read what you posted, I would have just seen the glass on a shelf and absolutely hated it because I thought it was crap. If I'd not seen it, but read the text, I would have absolutely no idea what the guy was talking about. The only thing I can tell you that's wrong with it is that I don't like it. (And if we're talking about paintings, a number of Surrealists, Impressionists, Post-Impressionists, Fauvists, etc. that I find spectacular hand Rothko his ass on a gold platter. But since this is a sculpture, I can think of lots of periods and artists that hand that guy his ass on a gold platter.) I don't mean to offend or anything, but I just don't like it. I don't feel anything when I look at it/read his statement.

The last discussion I remember when we were arguing with that guy over intent and whatnot, you brought up your dislike for Rothko and that's basically how I feel about artists that make things like this.
Logged
:grumpypuss: :grumpypuss: :grumpypuss:

Bibliophile

  • Emoticontraindication
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • <:3)~~
Re: What is art?
« Reply #22 on: 27 Sep 2007, 11:19 »

"I don't know art, but I know what I hate. And I don't hate this."
Logged
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

ViolentDove

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,418
Re: What is art?
« Reply #23 on: 27 Sep 2007, 18:25 »

If I hadn't read what you posted, I would have just seen the glass on a shelf and absolutely hated it because I thought it was crap. If I'd not seen it, but read the text, I would have absolutely no idea what the guy was talking about.

IMO, the text is an integral part of the artwork, neither part should be considered seperately. Not that I like it; I think it's making an interesting metaphysical point, but I still find it to be an uninspiring artwork. I'm not a huge fan of Rothko either, for the record.
Logged
With cake ownership set to C and cake consumption set to K, then C + K = 0.  So indeed as one consumes a cake, one simultaneously deprives oneself of cake ownership. 

muteKi

  • Guest
Re: What is art?
« Reply #24 on: 02 Oct 2007, 07:14 »

I don't read it so much as making a metaphysical point so much as I see it as a meta-statement for the sake of the subjectivity of art. ("I would be surprised if anyone else saw an oak tree.") Though as a Catholic I have to smile at the philosophical side of that work.
Logged

Darkbluerabbit

  • Cthulhu f'tagn
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • SKULL BABIES!
Re: What is art?
« Reply #25 on: 02 Oct 2007, 17:45 »

I understand the point, I guess, but the writing kinda sounds like stoner philosophy.  My guess would be that he wrote a much longer version while baked, and then edited it later to make it more coherent.  Then he poured some water in a glass. 

For me, a concept piece needs to be more thought provoking than this.  What I got out of it was "It's an oak tree because I said so."

Believe me, I looked for some deeper significance, but I couldn't find it.  Maybe I am shallow.
Logged

iliketodraw

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 75
Re: What is art?
« Reply #26 on: 03 Oct 2007, 05:59 »

Might i add that Craig-Martin is rather infamous for poking fun at the art world through various mediums.
Logged

schimmy

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 931
Re: What is art?
« Reply #27 on: 03 Oct 2007, 14:13 »

Perhaps the statement he is making is that it's only art because he said so?
Glass and water aren't art, after all. Normally, when you pour water into a glass, it doesn't become art. But he 'found out' how to make a glass of water into art.

I'm sure somebody else could explain that better than me.
Logged

öde

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,767
Re: What is art?
« Reply #28 on: 03 Oct 2007, 14:32 »

Rothko is shit. Of course you're more emotionally moved when you see the painting because colour invokes emotion. This is an essential part of art, but it's really just a part.
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,017
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Re: What is art?
« Reply #29 on: 03 Oct 2007, 16:21 »

I think that Craig-Martin is mainly talking about the disconnect between the classical and romantic methods of understanding an object: the difference between underlying forms and appearances. He's also, in a way, playing with the notion of extrinsic and intrinsic properties, in that he claims to have, and indeed via the text could be said to have, altered the objects intrinsic properties without changing its extrinsic properties, which should be impossible. He's basically pissing on Kant's grave. Either that or he got high whilst reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Remember, at the end of the day, the only difference between real philosophy and stoned philosophy is that real philosophers pepper their arguments with latin phrases and know what PS1 -> TT1 -> EE1 -> PS2 means. It also takes a real philosopher four volumes to say "Man, what if, like, the whole galaxy is just an atom in another universe that is an atom in another universe and what if people like, live in the atoms in our universe?" and it takes a real philosophy postgrad student his or her whole thesis to say "Dude, that is DEEP".
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Johnny C

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,039
  • i wanna be yr slide dog
    • I AM A WHORE FOR MY OWN MUSIC
Re: What is art?
« Reply #30 on: 03 Oct 2007, 18:13 »

Believe me, I looked for some deeper significance, but I couldn't find it.  Maybe I am shallow.

It's the transformative power of art.

Khar and I have had this discussion before. I'm still not at the stage where I'm willing to let crass commercialism slide as art - I make a distinction between something designed to make the creator a pile of cash and something designed because the creator feels a need to design it.
Logged
[02:12] yuniorpocalypse: let's talk about girls
[02:12] Thug In Kitchen: nooo

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,017
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Re: What is art?
« Reply #31 on: 03 Oct 2007, 22:15 »

Hang on Johnny. That's a rather problematic view. If we go down that road we suddenly discover that the amount of things we can call art becomes seriously diminished unless we start going for problematic definitions of commercialism and 'need' that tend to favour a high art/low art distinction and reinforce the western canon. Under such a definition, almost nothing Michaelangelo ever produced, for example, would be art. Very few portraits would be art. The majority of the works of artists like Hogarth and Henry Moore would not be art. The Bayaeux tapestry wouldn't be art. No Ukiyo-e prints would be art. In fact, barely anything before about the mid nineteenth century would be art, and then not everything after that by a long shot. Anyone with even the barest understanding of how the gallery system works would see that even a huge slice of modern art would be rendered into some form of 'non-art'. Even at the basest academic level, it can be hard to seperate 'art' and 'design', and that distinction is only really based on the MODE by which work is exploited commercially...

I mean, to put it in a more blatant way, what you're positing is a system of definitions whereby this random piece of pokemon fan-art I just got off of Deviantart is pretty much pure art:



But this isn't:



This is clearly absurd. Both are demonstrably art, and I believe most people would agree that David is qualitatively better for a variety of reasons (Though I'm sure you could find people ready and willing to argue, quite possibly very convincingly, for pikachu).
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

muteKi

  • Guest
Re: What is art?
« Reply #32 on: 06 Oct 2007, 00:21 »

Where was it I heard about the musicians saying or singing about how they sold out the minute they started making money on their music, not on their commercial tie-in?
Logged

Emaline

  • Lovecraftian nightmare
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,826
  • Drink, Drank, DRUNK
Re: What is art?
« Reply #33 on: 07 Oct 2007, 00:49 »

I hate this thread. I fucking hate this thread. I hate this stupid argument/discussion. I went to fucking art school. I had to hear this shit all the time. Everybody who argues this shit can eat my cock.



Ok, first of all, art is, to quote a friend, "absolutely anything that has undergone the key transformative of being modified in some way by conscious human intent to create."

Ok? Got that? Human intent to create.

So, if I work as a musician, or a graphic designer, or any of that shit, and I am making a picture/song for work/money, it can still be considered art. It is fucking art.

Books are art, ok? Writers are artists. They are writing to create.

Something doesn't become not art because it's creator made a buck off of it. Ok? Art is always art.

Photography is fucking art.

And fuck that noise about "Oh it's not art because it didn't take any skill to make it."  Have you dumb asses(and by that I mean anyone who argues that point) never heard of folk art? Folk art is made by people who have had little to no artistic training whatsoever. Those people don't have the "skill" and "knowledge" and they make some awesome things.


Don't tell me that something isn't art because it took so little effort to make. When I was a photography student, I had to hear this every single day. Fuck that. I realize that all I did was push a button, and that is how I created my "art" but did you see that picture right there? Did you notice the natural composition? Fuck all the bastards who want to fucking argue with me about why photography isn't art.


And fuck you, Stuckism. Fuck you hard. Up the ass. Conceptual art is just as much art as the bullshit you do. I really fucking hate Stuckists.



Anyway, best artists in the world are little kids. Give them a sheet of paper and a pencil, and what them make the most beautiful piece of art ever. They don't have predefined ideas of art. They are just fucking free. They think independently. They put whatever they want on a piece of paper. It is amazing.
« Last Edit: 07 Oct 2007, 00:52 by Emaline »
Logged
little bitty bird, with the flaxen hair, can i help you with the weight of the cross you bear?

schimmy

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 931
Re: What is art?
« Reply #34 on: 07 Oct 2007, 05:13 »

I think the most important question is this:
Why define art?
Logged

tommydski

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,064
    • Pocket Jury
Re: What is art?
« Reply #35 on: 07 Oct 2007, 06:40 »

I hate this thread. I fucking hate this thread. I hate this stupid argument/discussion. I went to fucking art school. I had to hear this shit all the time. Everybody who argues this shit can eat my cock.

Hey! Maybe don't post in this thread then?

Maybe fuck off a bit?

Maybe!
Logged
Quote from: Ozymandias
One minute we're playing Mario Kart, the next my penis is in your mouth - it just happens.

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,017
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Re: What is art?
« Reply #36 on: 07 Oct 2007, 07:00 »



"Calm down! Calm Down!"
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

jimbunny

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 679
  • I'll show you the life of the mind!
Re: What is art?
« Reply #37 on: 07 Oct 2007, 07:23 »

To pick up on the Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance riff, art is a particular event that occurs at the intersection of subject and object. Things are not art. Art is not purely in your mind. When you come into contact with images, words, performances, sounds, etc. in a frame of mind that allows you to appreciate art, art happens. Context - setting, background information - is important, but only as something that contributes to your subsequent judgment of the experience as 'good' or 'bad.' These judgments of quality are not meaningless just because they are not objective. They arise out of the experience of art and are conditional on your present state of mind as well as basically all of your past experiences, including yours and other people's previous judgments of this and other art (and perhaps some inbuilt positioning has some play here as well). Your present judgment therefore has real potential to affect future judgments, perhaps even to affect your future frame of mind such that art does not happen in some circumstance where for someone else it would.

If the above (or something like it with less holes) is accepted, then there are only two things essential to art: a ready-minded subject and an object. The 'artist' - the creator of the object - is subsumed into context, which itself is one factor in the judgment of art.

Then, given the belief that everything has a creator (non-specific - intentional or not), art can potentially happen anywhere, at any time. It does not, though, happen everywhere, all the time.
Logged

Liz

Re: What is art?
« Reply #38 on: 07 Oct 2007, 13:47 »

Art is whatever you want it to be.

That is all.
Logged
Quote from: John
Liz is touching me.
Quote from: Bryan
Fuck you, I want him so bad.

Lines

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,330
Re: What is art?
« Reply #39 on: 09 Oct 2007, 19:01 »

Words.

Something this makes me think of is how the past three years in art school have taught me how important discussing art is. If you can't discuss art and what it means, then it's meaningless. It can be aggravating as hell, but still, it's worth talking about, especially for someone like me who is going to make a career out of it.

I don't remember anyone in this thread bashing photography, either. Photography is an art. I have great respect for those who use a camera and develop their own film and whatnot. The professor I had for my practicum class told us about what she did on her last huge project, which was WWI based, and how she took a few trips to Europe to photograph certain memorials and sites. She had every last shoot timed exactly when each site would have the best lighting so she could get the best possible photographs. It's a science as much as it is an art. ( also respect it as the idea of developing my own film scares the crap out of me for some reason.)

So I have no idea what you meant with your post. If you hate talking about art and what it means, no wonder you hate this thread, but artists have to be able to talk about art. And I don't think the people who've posted hate photography. And I think you used the word "fuck" too much. Cheer up!
Logged
:grumpypuss: :grumpypuss: :grumpypuss:

Lise

  • Furry furrier
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 170
    • Face Me
Re: What is art?
« Reply #40 on: 10 Oct 2007, 00:38 »

Anyway, best artists in the world are little kids. Give them a sheet of paper and a pencil, and what them make the most beautiful piece of art ever. They don't have predefined ideas of art. They are just fucking free. They think independently. They put whatever they want on a piece of paper. It is amazing.

Emaline raises an interesting question about "childhood innocence" and how that relates to creating art- I don't know whether or not we're crippling our ability to do so by deliberating over "what IS art?", but I think we can agree that there's no concrete answer.

Take Marla Olmstead for example, a 4 year old girl whose paintings have sold for thousands of dollars. The validity of her artwork has been questioned by those who initially praised her as a genius, and the documentary "My Kid Could Paint That" serves to solve some of the controversy. http://www.sonyclassics.com/mykidcouldpaintthat/ I personally can't wait to see this in theaters :).

What's all your takes on the issue?

« Last Edit: 10 Oct 2007, 00:53 by Lise »
Logged

muteKi

  • Guest
Re: What is art?
« Reply #41 on: 10 Oct 2007, 07:55 »

I think I said on the IRC channel one of the best works of art would be an ice cream cone.

The piece would be called "Happiness".

The piece takes on more meaning as it begins to melt.
Logged

KharBevNor

  • Awakened
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,017
  • broadly tolerated
    • http://mirkgard.blogspot.com/
Re: What is art?
« Reply #42 on: 10 Oct 2007, 23:04 »

My take on the issue is that 'the best artists are children' is basically bunk. In its less thought about form it's a misunderstanding of a (I think mis)quote from Picasso about how the fact that he was a drawing prodigy (he could flawlessly reproduce Caravaggios before his balls dropped) robbed him of ever having a child-like naivete in his drawing style. The thing is, that its far more accurate to say that intelligent adults who can paint like children are great artists, since children obviously lack an intellectual depth and understanding of context to their work that I would say is pretty critical for really great art: it's ultimately what stops it all being pretty shapes or colours or scenes or whatever. Not saying that children can't produce some great stuff to look at, but it lacks the intellectual side which makes such art interesting (whilst simultaneously lacking the sense of style and knowledge of pop culture that makes good 'low' art rock). What I really think the work of children is indicative of is how darned creative we all are before the school system is allowed to systematically beat it out of us. Also, I find the artists who deliberately emulate the works of children often trite: it's the refuge of many a shit artist (David Shrigley anyone?). Artists who take that naivete and combine it with practice and technique to try and capture something vivid and essential (like Picasso did), now that's good art.
Logged
[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Jimmy the Squid

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,589
  • Feminist Killjoy
Re: What is art?
« Reply #43 on: 11 Oct 2007, 03:27 »

Human intent to create.

This pretty much sums it up for me. Despite all the ridiculous crazy rambling that went alongside this particular statement and the rest of the stuff about art theory (that I, admittedly, really didn't understand) in this thread, I think I agree that art is basically anything that is a result of the human intent to create.

Now defining good art... I'm sorry I can't help anyone here.
Logged
Once I got drunk and threw up in the vegetable drawer of an old disused fridge while dressed as a cat

muteKi

  • Guest
Re: What is art?
« Reply #44 on: 15 Oct 2007, 11:03 »

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VHlrE1saOMc

EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU
CONTEMPORARY INSTALLATION ART
EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU
CONTEMPORARY INSTALLATION ART
EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU
CONTEMPORARY INSTALLATION ART

You all might like this.
Logged

Caiphana

  • Curry sauce
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 257
  • WHOOSH
    • dA
Re: What is art?
« Reply #45 on: 15 Oct 2007, 23:00 »

What is art? Prostitution.

-Charles Baudelaire
Logged
..so long as the word "cookie" is in your country's vocabulary, it's an okay place to be.

Those who forget the past may be doomed to repeat it, but those who refuse to learn from the past and move on are fucking idiots.

Ninja-bot

  • Guest
Re: What is art?
« Reply #46 on: 18 Oct 2007, 11:38 »

Art is a word comprised of three letters.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up