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[Nodaisho]

Not by bullets anyway. You stick a burning piece of petrol-soaked rag into on and it will.

Edit: I really really need to read the Zombie Survival Guide Damnit.

Ah, so they mention how there has to be the right fuel-air mix? That is why Molotovs work, you light the rag, the glass shatters and the flaming rag hits the fuel mixture. As I recall, the best mix is water bottles for naive people, instant oatmeal for "friends", and high-octane gasoline. But you don't want to be using flame against a zombie anyway.

See, I am planning that we would be taking my dad's big-ass truck, fill up the back with gasoline cans, guns, and ammo, head up into the mountains by the backroads. If we run into zombies, well, we can run into them, saving ammo. I mean really, which would you bet on winning, about five 150-250 pound zombies, or a truck that probably weighs about one ton and carrying  another 700 pounds or so of weight?

Pat has a good point about nerves, I could probably hit after a few shots, when I get over the initial shock, but as the only thing I have shot is an air rifle, I would really need to learn fast. We have guns, I just haven't ever shot them.

[negative creep]

I dodn't know about you guys, but i have absolutely no idea where to find any kind of gun. Let's say I get a 24 hour early warning before the zombie apocalypse reaches my twon. how the fuck am i supposed to get a fucking gun?
I think the fatal flaw in most of the plans i read in this thread is that they require equipment that is not available.

[Gemmwah]

This is a good point, and personally I don't see myself being able to acquire a gun either, due to the fact that there's nowhere around here that has any. Except maybe the convenience store, but i highly doubt it.

[Boro_Bandito]

I know my aim is damn good from shooting pellet rifles, air soft guns and paintball guns, but I've never fired a real gun that's powerful to kill something(or make it dead-er) before, and so along with recoil/getting used to feel and sound of it, I would also have to come to terms with the fact that the things I'm shooting used to be living human beings. The second part in itself I think will separate survivors from zombie food, and I hope that if the time comes I get into a real survival situation that I'll be able to react to it in the right way (this is indeed for any survival situation, not the fairy-tale zombocalypse) but the truth is noone knows which kind of person they are until they come face to face with that imminent choice between death and survival.

I'm not entirely convinced that flame wouldn't be good as a way of killing them, just not in a hand to hand combat situation. You can still reduced them to charred lumps of carbon givin the situation isn't dire, good for getting rid of those still twitchin bodyparts that can build up every now and again.

Also, admittedly I'm not in the best of shape, so I'm not a runner by any means, that's one of the reasons I would want a reliable form of transport with plenty of miles in it to get away from heavy populations. I am pretty strong though, and I'm confident in my abilty to swing a bludgeoning object at a zombie's head hard enough to knock it down/out of my way. And that's just also another argument to have a pistol rather than lugging around a heavy rifle or shotgun. I have been going to the gym this year, and been mainly working on the cardio and running machines, with some limited weight training.

(also, where do you find a gun? Have a fucking phonebook? Come on people, not rocket science. If you've got a 24 hour warning chances are gun stores will too, and I'm betting if that point comes they won't bother waiting for a background check. Worst comes to worst you break in somewhere after hours, so what if its a crime that can be traced back to you? The police will be much more worried about imminent zombie conflict)

[Liz]

If I am at home when it happens, I will be set. We have a gun cabinet full of the good stuff, along with chansaws and hatchets and axes and pitchforks at sledgehammers and all the jazz in our shed.

If I am in Fargo at the time, I am screwed.

[Gemmwah]

I live in the UK. Guns are Illegal. Not even regular Police Officers carry them.

Gun Stores?

The best I could do would be cycle to a nearby army base and try and steal one of the SA80's, although there's fat chance of that happening.

[Boro_Bandito]

Man, never has the American "right to bear arms" amendment sounded like such a good idea. Hate to say it but you're screwed. The UK is an overpopulated gunless island, it is possibly the worst possible place in the world to be when the zombie apocalypse happens.

[Nodaisho]

Well, here in Colorado, I am pretty sure you could get rifles in a 24 hour period. Actually, I am not sure how long the background check would take, but I don't think there is a waiting period here.

I know a place within a ten minute drive of my house that has guns and ammo, some sporting goods stores and wal-marts do as well. I don't think the store I mentioned has as many as I would want, but it has a good amount.

Of course, this is in one of the more gun-friendly areas in the USA, one of the more gun-friendly countries. Swiss people would probably do well against zombies, since so many homes have guns due to a militiaman living there. Course, he isn't allowed to use his issued ammo (which for some reason doesn't even amount to a full magazine), but he could have purchased more ammo and use that.

UK? You can own guns, they just have to be shotguns with a capacity of three or less, can't be a handgun, and I am not sure the regulations on rifles. Of course, not sure how long you would have to wait there.

edit: Boro, a scot I know has an uncle that runs a range of some sort, he ought to be one of the better off UK residents if the zombies come, though they live near glasgow, which could cause them trouble just from population.

[0bsessions]

I dodn't know about you guys, but i have absolutely no idea where to find any kind of gun. Let's say I get a 24 hour early warning before the zombie apocalypse reaches my twon. how the fuck am i supposed to get a fucking gun?
I think the fatal flaw in most of the plans i read in this thread is that they require equipment that is not available.

THANK YOU!!!

I'm not entirely convinced that flame wouldn't be good as a way of killing them, just not in a hand to hand combat situation. You can still reduced them to charred lumps of carbon givin the situation isn't dire, good for getting rid of those still twitchin bodyparts that can build up every now and again.

"The living dead have no fear of fire. Waving an open flame in a ghoul's face will do nothing to slow or impede its advance. Zombies who have caught fire will neither notice nor react to the engulfing flames in any way. Too many humans have met with tragedy for failing to understand that fire is no deterrent to zombies!"

Page 51, the Zombie Survival Guide. Fire can be useful for destroying the remains, but it is too difficult to control to ever be an effective weapon.

(also, where do you find a gun? Have a fucking phonebook? Come on people, not rocket science. If you've got a 24 hour warning chances are gun stores will too, and I'm betting if that point comes they won't bother waiting for a background check. Worst comes to worst you break in somewhere after hours, so what if its a crime that can be traced back to you? The police will be much more worried about imminent zombie conflict)

One thing you must note, Phil, is that America has some of the least strict gun laws in the world. It's not nearly as easy to get a hold of guns in most other nations. People in the UK, to my recollection, would have almost no chance of getting a hold of one for an outbreak. Guns are relatively hard to get a hold of. (Apparently, Gemm covered this as I was typing). Note, people, my advice and strategy is generally advisable techniques for your average person. Just about everything I've recommended is available at any department store. Zombie survival for the working class, folks.

Also, in reference to my earlier grenade remarks, I wasn't advocating their use. I was using intentional hyperbole to note how ineffective ANY weapon is unless you get a headshot off. No real legal and attainable firearms have the sheer force to kill a zombie without a headshot, so the difference between power in a handgun and sidearm starts to become negligible in any situation where shooting a zombie is the right move to begin with.

[Ozymandias]

Oh, I got it, you guys.

I'm going to get 10,000 grenades and put them in each zombie's mouth individually. One at a time.

[Patrick]

If I had 24 hours' notice I could go down the street, knock on somebody's door, and say "Hey do you guys have an AK-47 and some ammo I could have?" and they probably would. This is because the third world doesn't fuck around with the zombie threat.

[Boro_Bandito]

Ha. The key of it all is the headshot.

Like I said on fire, not used in dire hand to hand combat situations. Given enough time though fire will destroy a zombie, it just has to burn for long enough. You light em on fire from a safe position, and watch as they don't notice themselves lumber around on flame until they're nothing more than a pile of charred bones.

And also, does the book note whether or not zombies can see? Take a blow torch to the face and the eyes will melt, making vision impossible. How effective a killer is a zombie whose mouth has been melted shut?

[Nodaisho]

Also, in reference to my earlier grenade remarks, I wasn't advocating their use. I was using intentional hyperbole to note how ineffective ANY weapon is unless you get a headshot off. No real legal and attainable firearms have the sheer force to kill a zombie without a headshot, so the difference between power in a handgun and sidearm starts to become negligible in any situation where shooting a zombie is the right move to begin with.

Really? It is possible to obtain grenade launchers, mortars, and MGs here. Each grenade would cost over $300, and would require you to fill out horrible paperwork, as would each mortar round, but an MG you would only have to pay the $300 once, along with the horrible cost of an MG, since supply is so much lower than demand.

Of course, for now, you are allowed to own whatever you want in most of the country, as long as you don't try to kill anyone with it.

Albania counts as third world? I didn't know that, course, I don't know anything about Albania.

[Alex C]

Ah well, I will still forever hate pistols. Hitting something that's moving when you're even a li'l excited is a bitch with one. People use rifles even for varmint hunting for a reason folks; there really is a combination of ergonomics, mental cues and flatter trajectory that shouldn't be underestimated. But anyway, yeah, obviously availability is the ultimate arbiter. Beyond a certain point you may as well suggest nuking the things from orbit, after all. And like I said, in my area you can purchase rifles/shotguns (but not handguns) with nothing but a FBI*NICS check, which basically means the only thing stopping you is a criminal record. That and I have like, 9 of them.

[negative creep]

seriously, there are NO gun stores within a radius of maybe 50km from where i live. And even if there were, they'd only sell guns that are basically harmless. what am i supposed to do, walk up to the army barracks and go like "HAI GUYS I CAN HAS ASSAULT RIFLEZ, PLZ?" yeah,... probably.

[Nodaisho]

It occurs to me that joining the military might be a good way to survive if you don't have any good weapons on your own, you get a lot of people with guns helping you, you get a lot of ammo, stockpiled supplies, and best of all, air support. Nothing like an A-10 rotary cannon for clearing out hordes of zombies. Or a 120mm cannon.

[Patrick]

I would love to employ that GAU-8 for any reason at all. Using a tank-killing gun on zombie hordes seems as good a reason as any. Seriously? The thing destroys T-72s and T-90s. If it can destroy a goddamn Russian main battle tank it can do plenty to stop a stampede of the undead.

[RedLion]

Albania counts as third world? I didn't know that, course, I don't know anything about Albania.

Well, it's by far the poorest country in Europe.

If you guys haven't you should really read World War Z. It's by the same guy who wrote the Zombie Survival Handbook. It's fiction, but it tells the stories of myriad people caught in this situation and, to me, provides a realistic portrait of what would happen to average people.

[Cam]

Currently, I reside in a state where people just go shoot shit when they get bored.  I have two guns simply because it is what people do here and pretty much every one else I know owns a lot more then I do.  Once every one figured out what was going on, I am not sure how long the zombies would last.  A lot of the people around here would be running out and shooting them for fun while driving around in pick ups and drinking Bud Light.  Honestly, I would be more afraid of the humans. 

If I was to implement a plan based on the resources I have at home, I'd grab both my guns and I have about 500 rounds of ammo.  I keep ten gallons of water and canned food on hand just in case there is some sort of natural disaster.  So, I would put that in the car along with any tools, etc. and get out of the city.  I have some "friends" that are fucking survival nuts and have an insane amount of guns and a place that is easily defensible. 

Then, I'd just hunt and live off the land.

If you can survive the initial zombie onslaught, I think humans would end up being the biggest threat in the long run.

[Nodaisho]

Also, people: explosives will essentially do fuck all unless you're talking hopper mines at head-height. I shot that isn't a headshot is wasted ammo - so the main advantages of a tank would probably be the machine gun(s) and just crunching the zombies to a pulp, not the bigass cannon.

You heard the term "Pink mist"? a 120mm would do that to a clump of zombies easily, as would the GAU-8.

[Patrick]

Actually, Albania is part of the second world.

Man whoever wrote that article apparently wasn't aware that Albania sided with the Chinese in that whole "Sup, Mao Zedong wants to be the leader of world communism" thing during Khrushchev's time in power. It is true that the nuclear subs down near Corfu are Russian in design and manufacture, but there was plenty of time between Russia's development of a shipborne reactor and the time of the communism leadership split.

Whatever the case, I am going to the U.S. Embassy to hang with the Marines, we are taking their weapons and armored vehicles down to Corfu, and we will be waiting there until somebody can come with that sub restoration gear.

Nodaisho is right about the GAU-8. Seriously? The recoil of that motherfucker is equal to the thrust of one of the two engines on the airplane it's mounted on. You're not going to find anything more perfectly suited for pink mist.

[Nodaisho]

Actually, I don't think it is quite that powerful, I am pretty sure I remember reading that was an urban legend. But still, that thing is a tank killer. It might not pink mist with one shot, but it fires at 3900 RPM, so it will have enough to do so on any given target. I guess usually, it does 3 to 1 incendiary to high explosive, but I think the high explosive would be big enough to blow apart a few zombies each, assuming a mass of them. And... while I am leery to overstate the capabilities of a gun, due to seeing it done frequently (no, the 5.56 doesn't "explode", the .45 won't knock someone flying, a handgun hole in an aircraft won't cause explosive decompression, and a .50 rifle will not shoot down an in-flight airplane from the ground), but I think that in some cases, the 30mm might actually tear a zombie in half, the part with arms would still crawl forward, but it would move even more slowly, and the incendiary would have even more time to do its pyromania-inducing work.

[Patrick]

The urban legend was actually that the gun would stop the plane in mid-flight. That part is definitely crap. It does, however, equate ONE of the two engines, slowing it down pretty heavily. I'd be more concerned about the thing overheating than I'd be worried about being stopped by the recoil.

Seriously though? The sheer mass of those depleted uranium rounds from the GAU-8 are enough to destroy one of those battle tanks with about 20 rounds (about a millisecond burst, amirite).

We're talking about a goddamn 1.25" thick, 3" long piece of depleted uranium coming at you faster than the speed of sound. That and the fire rate doesn't make the gun go "BANGBANGBANG", it just makes it go "BVVVVVVVVDDVDVDVDVVVDVVDVDD" really freaking loudly. This thing is MORE than capable of putting a stop to zombie hordes of up to 3,000 with just one load of ammunition.

tl;dr if we can get hold of an Air Force base with A-10s when the zombiepocalypse hits, I got dibs on the first one. I don't have my pilot's license yet, but I've flown before, and I am more than certain I can get this thing off the ground and back on it safely while getting rid of some undead scum.

[Nodaisho]

You can have it, just don't scratch the paint, and try to remember which mass of people is us.

I call a good rifle with a scope, a pair of binoculars, and a lot of ammunition, I would just sit on top of the tallest building I could find. Probably a radio too, so I could call it in if I saw anything.

[KharBevNor]

I tell you man, the last people standing are going to be me and the rest of the vikings.



We'll have a beer for you atop a mountain of corpses after we've cleansed the world.

[Nodaisho]

The mail is a good idea, as would be any armor that can protect from bites, and hopefully negate some impact from blows, but staying a long way away from the beings that are unable to use ranged weapons is always the best idea.

[KharBevNor]

No it's not. My axe doesn't run out of ammo. Using shield-wall tactics It would be possible to engage 10 times as many zombies as you had men in close combat and not even begin to worry. Chuck in a bit of modern spice to the skills and tactics we use, and we would be sorted.

Also, the major advantage of my plans: I am lying on my bed using my laptop and there is a round-shield, a battle axe, steel helmet, armoured gauntlets, vambraces etc. within four feet of me. I would need maybe an hours preparation to put the edge back on my axe, and then that would be it. I'm going to guess that none of you guys have an A-10 gunship in your garage, amirite?

[Nodaisho]

So how many vikings do you have? 10? That means you can take on a hundred or so zombies, right? What happens after that?

Your axe may not run out of ammo, but it gets a lot more tiring swinging one around than firing a gun, and if you run out of ammo, you made a mistake somewhere. Probably when you didn't deck yourself out with as much ammo as possible. Lets say you have an M4gery, the gun weighs 6.4 pounds loaded, each magazine weighs about a pound, you could probably carry around ten of them on a vest, if not more. That is a lot of shots, and if you run into zombies, your plan should be to fight your way back to safety, which is going to include even more ammo.

So, you are carrying about seventeen pounds plus the weight of the vest, probably just a pound or so, and the weight of whatever armor you are using, probably a thick coat and pants, one of those riot helmets would be awesome, but not likely to have on hand. So, less than 25 pounds, which is around what a highschool student carries around all day, and for students, the weight isn't distributed as well. How much does your gear weigh, and how long can you fight before exhaustion kicks in? Or before you slip up?

And you seem to be thinking that you can only be able to fight at close range or long range, you ever been hit upside the head by a rifle butt? Me neither, but I don't want to volunteer for the experience.

[Alex C]

Gah, getting hit by a rifle butt hurts like hell. I got hit in the back of the head by one three stooges style when my cousin was being careless (kid's a moron), and it still hurt. Anytime you're combining 5+ pounds of weight and some length it can only end in tears.

[KharBevNor]

My gear weighs around 15 pounds. I can fight for about five hours non-stop.

[Patrick]

try to remember which mass of people is us.

Goddammit stop bunching.

That said, calling in air strikes is always good. Just remember to stay IN the base while I'm in the air and only call things in if there's a wall breach.

[supersheep]

Swiss people would probably do well against zombies, since so many homes have guns due to a militiaman living there. Course, he isn't allowed to use his issued ammo (which for some reason doesn't even amount to a full magazine), but he could have purchased more ammo and use that.

Apparently they have phased this out now, so not so much any more. They do have shelters they can hide in though, which is nice.

When it comes to Zombocalypse, I am basically screwed. I mean, Ireland has even fewer guns than Britain now (why did our paramilitary groups have to give up?) and I live right in the city centre. The house I live in is fairly solid and has a big metal door and grilles on the window, but still, that's not much help. I guess if I was in college I could possibly go down to the rifle club and load up on a few .22s, but bolt action rifles are basically not the best idea ever.
There is basically no plan that ends up in me getting out of this one alive. Holing up is probably my best idea.

[LordNagash]

No it's not. My axe doesn't run out of ammo. Using shield-wall tactics It would be possible to engage 10 times as many zombies as you had men in close combat and not even begin to worry. Chuck in a bit of modern spice to the skills and tactics we use, and we would be sorted.

And how many blows would it take to incapacitate a zombie with a small headed axe? And with so many hits, it is very likely that you get the axe stuck eventually. A good broad short bladed weapon would be better in my opinion. Even so, doesn't a sheild wall rely on mostly thrusting attacks from the participants? You will break formation to make good chopping swings.

[Boro_Bandito]

And I wasn't even aware that Vikings practiced Shield Wall techniques, I thought that was the Romans/Greeks. Barbarians like the Vikings relied on sheer ferocity in combat didn't they? And vikings themselves remained raiders, quick in, quick out. Hardly steady line material.

[KharBevNor]

I'm sorry to be a dick, man, but I think I know perhaps a little more* about the military tactics of the dark ages than you do.


@LordNagash: it would take me about as many blows as it would take me to kill you: one.



I mean, it's not like zombies have a supernatural strength. They also don't stand properly. Pretty easy prospect for hand to hand combat, man.


*and by this I mean a lot more.

[calenlass]

I always thought that a really nice thing to get for myself someday is some layered monstrosity of kevlar over some lightweight chain mail. Ideally the kevlar will miraculously look like lovely tooled leather, although I guess I could like put a third layer of actual leather over the top; I just want to save some extra weight. This is a good reason to start saving up for it and working on it now.

[Alex C]

Uh, in all honesty, wouldn't something relatively light weight like a good high quality set of motocross or supermoto protective gear and leathers be best? It's not like they're going to swing at you with a battle axe; they're really only dangerous because a bite or bad cut could get you fatally infected and because they can come at you in mobs. If it's a mob you should just run like hell because they can't be intimidated and will dog pile you in a reckless charge. If it's an individual zombie you should still just keep your distance but if you have to engage it's bad luck and superficial wounds that's the biggest worry.

[Patrick]

I always thought that a really nice thing to get for myself someday is some layered monstrosity of kevlar over some lightweight chain mail. Ideally the kevlar will miraculously look like lovely tooled leather, although I guess I could like put a third layer of actual leather over the top; I just want to save some extra weight. This is a good reason to start saving up for it and working on it now.

I would invest in a multi-layered protective suit, yes, but it would be more along the lines of a spandex bodysuit, some fireproofed material, thin leather covering, chainmail, and a layer of slippery rubberized spandex on top so that they can't grab you as easily. All this, some melee gear, and a full-face motorcycle helmet, and you'd probably have a half-decent "In case of emergency supply runs" suit.

I would invest in a good respirator as well, god knows what those bastard zombies are coughing up.

[Alex C]

AKA racing gear! I'm telling you Jong, you basically just described a supermoto pressure suit worn under a smooth motorcycle jacket, just without the chainmail. Anyway, I think the big thing is sturdy clothing with as little exposed flesh as possible. If you get bit you get bit, but it'd suck to get infected just because one got their grimey filthy nails on you in the struggle.

[Boro_Bandito]

Man, those supposedly lightweight suits are sounding heavy to me.

And Khar, while my particular strength of knowledge might not be in the Vikings themselves, when I was in high school Medieval and Dark Ages warfare was a hobby and fascination of mine, specifically the evolution of ballistics but really all of it was my bread and butter. While not the most reliable sources, I played Warhammer miniatures (of which several of the "races" mirrored Dark Age soldiers.My major in college was History until I switched to Film. I took lessons in Japanese swordsmanship for two years from a man who looked very much likea younger Chuck Norris and who never failed to scare me as well as an ageing sensei from Japan who was flown over 4 times a year to teach classes for a week. I participated in a Medieval Jousting and swordfighting reenactment group for about 4 years in junior high and high school and in an AMTguard group (admittedly pulling away from the historical). I learned how to make chainmail for chrissakes. Not to sound like a dick since I don't know specifically how old you are in comparison to me or what your education was is/in but you've got to give me some level of credit as to what you think I know or don't know.

[KharBevNor]

If you actually knew anything relevant, then you would know the vikings fought in shield walls.

I mean, very nice dick-wagging and all, but all you've told me is that you know a lot more about other periods of history and that one of your sources for information on the dark ages is Warhammer. It also makes you look even dumber because you are simply wrong.

http://www.vikingsonline.org.uk/resources/articles/combat.htm

"The Shieldwall - Once battle was joined, each side would form a line of warriors, perhaps several deep, formed into the "shield wall". Each warrior overlaps his shield on both sides, presenting a wall which is strong enough to stop a rushing opponent from penetrating."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_wall

"The shield wall was commonly used during the 8th and 9th Century by Vikings, and by Anglo-Saxons from kingdoms such as Mercia, Wessex, and Northumbria."

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/echoblue/Theshieldwall.htm

"A main part of the military tactics used by the Vikings, among others, was the use of Shield Walls to provide cover for advancing and defending troops. "

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/W/weapons/shield2.html

"On hearing Alfred's approach Guthrum ordered his men to form a shield wall."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stamford_Bridge

"The Vikings who were without armour locked their shields together to form a wall. The Saxons copied the tactic and rushed the Viking army."

It looks kinda like this:

[Boro_Bandito]

Very Well done sir.  You've successfully knowledged me to death. I fully concede the point to you. I did say that I basically knew jack about the vikings and their tactics in particular. Those shields are still not protecting the heads and/or feet, a zombie fallen to the ground becomes an anklebiter and a press of creatures who can't feel pain makes it hard to swing swords or axes in melee combat than against other guys who are trying to stay that distance away from you. You're right, zombies aren't superhuman, and by themselves aren't much of a threat unless you're careless/totally unarmed. The point of zombies is the sheer mass of numbers that make them dangerous and I still say that you're shield wall would be far less effective than you think.

Edit: Also, going through the first article and reading on shield walls, they weren't meant to last the entire battle anyway,

"From behind this wall the warriors would absorb the initial charge, and then loosen slightly to fight individual battles and small melees."

"With men standing so close and in several ranks, movement was limited, and even highly trained warriors would find it difficult to manoeuver quickly on the battlefield. As a result, outflanking moves were common"

Now I know zombies aren't the speediest suckers, what with the shambling and all but given their tendency to operate in sheer numbers a small group of ten or twelve Viking warrior regalia-clad men would still find an incredibly hard time of it to hold the line and keep them from overwhelming the flanks. Ways to prevent this I guess are finding a bottleneck to force the zombies coming at you through, and in a good area you could hold for quite some time. But zombies never get tired, people do. I'm still doubting you'd be able to swing an axe with enough force to cause a killing blow to a zombie's head for even five hours straight, hell, even an hour of just non-stop death dealing.

From the Wikipedia article:
"The shield would likely have pressed against the body with the sheer force, requiring the second rank to do most of the fighting over the shoulder of the first rank with longer weapons aiming for the heads of the front ranks of the opponent."

With only ten or so warriors, that means reducing your front row to five men, since the sheer press of weight would almost certainly come to this.

"The shield wall proved superior to troops in no formation but generally had many disadvantages: it was unmanageable, and the troops were so tightly packed they had difficulty looking down, so the advancing shield wall would stumble on the corpses. The flanks of the shield wall were especially vulnerable so a smaller army would have to spread its troops thinner to prevent immediate outflanking. The shield wall did not work well in woodland areas "

More with the outflanking.

"The powerful weapons of the time, like big swords and axes, were too big to swing, so the more effective weapons were short swords maybe a foot long which could be stabbed under the opponent's shield into his groin or leg. This led a lot of professional warriors in Alfred the Great's army to carry two swords."

Foot and leg hits aren't going to do dick to a zombie.

[sean]

Boro I think that problem can be solved if can manage to acquire riot shields. I mean, your feet would still be open, but it would provide far more protection than a round shield would, and I highly doubt zombies will be smart enough to realize that they can bite your feet. Zombies seem to want to bite the most accessible point, usually the neck. If you really are worried though, wouldn't really thick boots do the trick?

Also, sorry if I'm being a complete tard with this one, but wouldn't a shield wall be far more effective with spears/lances/the sort instead of swords and axes?

[Nodaisho]

Well, the zombies that can't stand wouldn't be going for the neck, they would be going for whatever is closest, legs. If you could get a tower shield or something, that would be better. I still maintain that anyone whose primary plan of battle is to get in as close as they can to zombies is not thinking right, neither is someone who doesn't have a way to fight close-up if they have to.

A polearm wall would be effective, but I think the zombies would keep pulling themselves towards you if you didn't hit them in the head, unless you had something at the base of the blade that made that impossible, and it would be awkward to hit them in the head. I haven't ever used a spear, so I could be wrong, but it seems like it would be difficult to aim one one-handed.

[SonofZ3]

so wait, zombies are slower and more stupid than human beings, so we beat them by reverting to axes and clubs and viking tactics? It would seem to me that most weapon advances are as a result of the human mind constantly being able to invent new and innovative ways to kill people with available technology. If zombies are less threatening than humans, shouldn't our modern weapons be even more effective against them?

[bbqrocks]

I plan to get really fat so when I do get bitten I am a mega-zombie.

[KharBevNor]

No, because our modern weaponry is designed to fight modern threats: mechanised armies and guerillas. Just the fact that zombies completely ignore the psychological aspects of modern weaponry is bad enough. There's no way to use suppressing fire on zombies. You can't target their supply lines or plan surgical strikes on their commanders. Zombies won't take cover from a sniper, they will march towards him until his bullets run out.

In a proper shield wall, spearmen fight over (and, some of the sneakier ones, under) the front rank, who historically would have been armed mainly with axes. A spear of any significant length (viking spears were about the height of the man who wielded them, though they could be considerably longer) is incredibly hard to use one-handed because of simple mechanics: it's really easy for the enemy just to swat it away. Shield walls historically would have broken or reformed multiple times. Generally, whichever force had the high ground, or the sun behind them, would sit still and wait for the enemy to charge them in their own shield wall or boar snout formation, though sometimes both forces would just go for it. Two things could then happen, either the attackers would batter themselves upon the wall and then retreat, or the attackers would breach the wall, splitting it into two or more halves. This might end up in individual combat, either with the remains of the wall or with skirmishers behind, or a quick commander might re-form a new shield wall further back, or wheel in reserves to try and cap the breach. I think your mental block about the usefulness of the concept against zombies stems from the idea that a shield wall is a static formation (and also maybe from the idea there's only ten guys involved). Actually, shield walls are highly mobile. Small walls can turn very quickly to prevent outflanking. Men in a shield wall can wheel and about face pretty easily if they have the knack of it, or even form squares to counter a cavalry charge. I wasn't imagining just sitting still and taking on swarms of zombies, but quick, unified movement through urban areas.

And of course, as historical authenticity is not a problem in such a scenario, I imagine there'd be a lot of variation in equipment and clothing turning up.

[Nodaisho]

By the time you run out of bullets with a good rifle, you ought to have taken out more than a hundred zombies, then you retreat back to wherever you have supplies. You don't run out of ammo if you don't have a back-up though, you save a good amount of ammo for going back in case you run into trouble.

Your whole argument about how zombies have no psychology is a red herring, that has nothing to do with how effective modern weapons are at killing.

You yourself admitted that shield walls get broken, after that happens, you are in a bit of trouble, aren't you?

[Boro_Bandito]

That's a good point, but remember to be careful when dealing with issues of advanced tactics beyond yelling out at the rag-tag gang of survivors with equally eccentric equipment involved, that you're talking about doing things that take hundreds of hours of drilling to be able to do so with great efficiency and skill of motion. You're relying heavily on the idea of having several equally well-trained people fighting alongside you who know how you run your tactics.

[KharBevNor]

@Nodaisho: Not really man, it takes another shield wall or massed arrow fire to break a shield wall. Not randomly clawing, shambling, ill-balanced undead.

How much ammo do you have? Where are your supply depots going to be? How do you plan on keeping them secure? What do you do when your gun jams, when you run out of gun oil and the bolt locks up, if it breaks, if it rusts, if it gets wet?