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[jeph]

Hey Statik! Quit bein' a tool.

[ackblom12]

I love my PC, and I've loved my PCs for close to 20 years now, but anyone who thinks that the non indy PC development scene isn't dying a slow painful death is lying to themselves.


Back to Mass Effect

I think I'm accepting, during my 4th playthrough, that my love for this game might be hitting "unhealthy" status.

[KvP]

My hope is that sometime in a future unlike the present the market will expand to such an extent that boutique developers will be able to do reasonable business, or at the very least will begin to imitate the movie business, where independent and DIY efforts can work alongside (or be co-opted by, depending on how you look at it) the big guns. But as it is now, it looks like PC gaming is folding into console gaming, and that only encourages consolidation. At this point it seems like you can only be an indie console developer if you make platformers or casual games.

[jeph]

I think I might start another playthrough tonight, without using the Specter guns.

(I think I have a Problem)

[Storm Rider]

My hope is that sometime in a future unlike the present the market will expand to such an extent that boutique developers will be able to do reasonable business, or at the very least will begin to imitate the movie business, where independent and DIY efforts can work alongside (or be co-opted by, depending on how you look at it) the big guns. But as it is now, it looks like PC gaming is folding into console gaming, and that only encourages consolidation. At this point it seems like you can only be an indie console developer if you make platformers or casual games.

Again, I think that the Xbox Live and Playstation Network games are the recourse for independent shops at this point. They're much less expensive to develop, can get you a solid amount of money right off the bat because there's no retail overhead, and if you make enough money off that you maybe can afford to expand your dev team or parlay that into a deal with a major publisher. Of course, if you end up establishing a good relationship with a publisher as a result of that, they'll probably end up buying your studio. The thing is, more and more publishers seem to be giving their development teams more free reign, because more often than not if the publisher ends up interfering with the game too much they just end up breaking it. So, in the interest of playing devil's advocate, I don't think that the consolidation the market is seeing right now is necessarily a bad thing, at least on the whole. I think the desire to see the 'indie development scene' stay strong is largely a romantic thing, and that while it's always nice to see that group stay healthy, it's not vital to the success or failure of the medium.

[Johnny C]

The Live Arcade, PSN and WiiWare systems encourage indie development, I like to think. At the very least they give small-scale developers the chance to make a buck off their hard work and maybe get picked up by a large developer.

The thing is that bigger agencies in gaming aren't particularly evil at this stage, not to the extent of major labels or motion picture studios. A good chunk of the bigger companies like EA and Ubisoft seem to go the Ben Affleck route - one to pay the bills, one to make something good.

[Dimmukane]

Johnny C, where is that graphic of a nail being hit because you just did that.

Anyways, I want to go back through this again, but school is starting back up soon, so I'll be chopped for time.  Plus, Brawl, Mario Kart, Too Human...yikes.

[KvP]

Somewhat coincidentally, on another forum I frequent there's a discussion of the PC vs. Console market. This particular post from a software designer caught my eye, I think it makes some pretty good points, despite some typos.

The idea that PC gaming will die is an absolute myth, time and time again I've explained the patterns of the gaming industry and its very unlikely to change. The PC market itself vastly outnumbers the console market, so even contemplating that developers will simply cease to develop for the platform is out there in the realms of ignorance, or perhaps better put as misunderstanding.

It's very simple matter of the fact stuff really, PC gaming has been in such a position before, back when the playstation was released and 3D graphics were all the rage, the PC's of the time we're not capable of producing the same results as the playstation without the aid of what was then extremely expensive 3D accelerators. Windows 95 and Direct X eventually changed this, along with some notable titles, Quake, Half-life, Diablo, Fallout, and Baldurs Gate spring to mind.

What does exist belongs to technological leaps, when the XBox was released it was based upon Direct X 8 API and the windows 2000 kernal, albeit modified and optimized for the specific hardware. This in laymans terms basically states that you can do more with less so to speak, yet the PC soon entered the direct X 9 era, which is frankly a far more capable API, HLSL and programmable graphical hardware placed the PC technologically well above the Xbox, all noteable sellers made there way on top the PC, Halo and KOTOR, albiet that they were originally exclusive to the XBOX, the same can be said of Paystation 2 titles (which has a insane crap - good game ratio, and awfully weak hardware). We also found that developers would always jump at cross platform development, this isn't a new thing at all, heck I remember the days when cross-platform releases consisted of totally different versions of the same game!

Now we've seen the release of the next generation of consoles, the XBOX 360 is, to be blunt, Direct X 9.0c in a box with three dual threaded processors. The PC is looking at an entirely new API Direct X 10, and entirely new operating system Vista, and quad cores becoming common place, all that is happening is the same as what happened when PC's moved from DOS to windows 95, the next few years will see more reliable games made on the PC, this can be attributed to this latest step forwards. There will always be developers working on the edge creating cutting edge games. Direct X 10 really does make it easier for the developer, and the PC has something now that no other gaming platform has, geometry shaders.

It is always financially viable to make games for console and PC, the problem comes from publishers who will pay more to developers to develop for consoles when they're first released, the same game may get double the budget on a console than on the PC in regards to development. Developers want to reach as many people on as many platforms as possible, so why would they cut out the platform which is more capable (hardware-wise) than others? It just doesn't make sense. Developers aren't just going to stop developing games for the PC, but they may very well stop developing games for only the PC, when other options exist, but there will always be PC only titles as there are console only titles.

To be blunt, the PC market can't die, because that's where the next generation of consoles will come from, its where the hardware is researched, where the API's are developed, where the cutting edge technology is released, the console is the technology of yesterdays PC's, just optimised.

Not sure about that third paragraph. Rest looks good.

As for Mass Effect, my 360's disc drive went kaput after 3 years of hard use, and now we're sending it back. Hopefully by the time the replacement arrives there will be some news re: DLC. The rational part of me thinks that the DLC was probably worked out before release, and is more of the cookie-cutter side planets and missions everybody's so tired of. The irrational part of me hopes it's actually something good.

[Storm Rider]

Well that's fine, but if the cutting-edge games like Crysis only sell 80,000 copies in their first month on the market, then I'd hardly call the platform a 'success'. And he completely fails to acknowledge the piracy or install cost problems of PC game development. To an extent the PC market is astronomically larger than the console market, but when you narrow that down to the people who are actually willing to upgrade their machines often enough to play those cutting edge games, I imagine the number drops exponentially.

[KvP]

I think Crysis is something of an anomaly. It was made to showboat an engine, an engine that was grossly decadent. Honestly, I think Crysis deserved to fail. When you come out and say on a top-of-the-line computer you'll get maybe 30 frames per second running your game, that your game is built for theoretical computers (Yahtzee made it sound like a joke, but they literally said it), you're asking for it. It's basically asking the consumer to worship you and bring you gifts of high-tech hardware so they can gaze upon your wondrous visage. Forget the game, just develop the engine internally and sell it to the army (something Crytek's already done) It's dumb business, at least in the short term (the short term being at least a year) When HL2 came out it ran on my computer. Choppily, but then, my computer by that point was below average. It barely ran HL1.

The shelf life of a good computer is too often understated, especially when you've built the computer yourself. Computers can last longer than console cycles.

[Storm Rider]

Well I was just using Crysis as an example. What about the other 'big' PC games that came out like UT3, World in Conflict and Supreme Commander? Hell, I don't even think C&C 3 performed particularly well commercially.

[Johnny C]

The software designer dude is missing the point.

I could actually not give a shit about geometry shaders. I give a shit about playing a game where I care about the story, characters, setting and theme.

You could argue that I'm rare but there are an increasing number of gamers who feel the same way.

[Melodic]

Man guys what the fuck is this thread doing talking about PCs? I could rant for a day about PC/console wars but we are here to talk about cool goddamn aliens and saving the freaking galaxy. What the hell.

The Spectre (totally the right spelling, suck it spellcheck!) weapons are so completely overpowered it makes me cry. For my second play-through I had enough mad cash to stock up on VII Spectre gear for two of my dudes (are there any other merchants that actually sell them?), and it just makes the game piss-easy. Once the final difficulty is unlocked I think I'll finally have some tense moments, but until then?

[KvP]

There's an achievement that allows Spectre weapons to be sold by the Normandy quartermaster (I forget which one it is). Other than that, there's just the Citadel CSEC quartermaster.

[Statik]

I was honestly asking questions about the game, which I got a good response to.  

As far as being a "PC only troll"  I had a big long bunch of text I wrote, but whatever, it isnt for this thread.  I have 12 consoles (including 4 different gameboys), I enjoy consoles, I enjoy playing my friends 360, and a different friends Wii, and anothers PS3.  I have other expenses to worry about first.  

Also, stop assuming that every downloaded copy of (CD/Movie/Game) is a lost sale.  Its not.

CoD needs an authentication server if its that much of a problem.

On the subject of ports, like I mentioned before, as apparently (according to other companies) developing for the XBox is not dissimilar from PC (since the XBox / 360 are in essence, stripped down PCs) so "porting" the game isnt a long involved process (compared to PS3, which uses completely unique hardware and is apparently much more difficult to port to/from).  Do I have $350 for a 360 + one game?  No.  Do I have the $40-50 for a PC game?  yeah, if its good.

Am I interested in playing ME?  Moreso after being told that it does pay homage to the Sci Fi it comes from (being a massive sci-fi geek).  Enough to buy a 360?  No, unfortunantly.  Although ME + Armored Core 4 might make me get a used one (360) from a friend, depending on his price of course.

A side note that developed, Ill post a rant Ive had/developed for a while about PC Gaming, and what I feel could be done (and I do care/hope to do, as thats where I will be in a couple years)

Anyway, as it was not my intention to derail the thread, so going back to the thread at hand, my reference to Tau being a short lived race was only because the Reapers seem like Necrons (from the little they have been talked about in the thread).  I never claimed it unique or any such, just interesting.  Also, do the Reapers not exist visually in the game?  Even the ME wiki doesnt exactly have much on them (Im curious).

Edit: WTF?  As best my understanding, the extent of the "sexuality" present in the game is less than the average daytime soap opera.  (The link is from Penny-Arcade)

[Johnny C]

Yeah that dude missed the mark. The resultant Penny Arcade comic is actually probably the funniest I've seen in a very long time. (I love 'em, but "Shit on a biscuit" pretty much takes the cake.)

The Reapers DO appear, though I can't say much more without really giving it away further.

I think focusing on PC gaming and console gaming as separate entities is what's really hurting PC gaming a lot. Television and film are separate methods of exploring the same medium, you know? That's the approach that needs to be taken, and rather than doing that there's just PC and console people duking it out.

[Statik]

Ermm, isnt this a spoiler thread?  Ive already read the whole thread, and I do not have access to play the game (at the present).  Some of the other character design is interesting, so I would be curious to see what the reapers look like (as far as the whole motivation ala Necron)  somehow I doubt they look like living metallic skeletons with glowing green gauss guns, but hey. 

I dont know if I said it explicitly, but I understand MS pushing ME as an exclusive, they are in competition with PS3 and etc. etc. etc.  All I'm saying is that if ME is so fantastical, and (according to some interviews with developers I've read) Xbox PC cross development is not terribly difficult as the Xbox IS a stripped down PC, why not give the game a bit of life later by re-releasing it on PC (re: Halo 1). 

[Dimmukane]

They might, but they're probably not gonna port it until at least 18 months after the last game in the trilogy.  EA would love to port it earlier, I'm sure, but I don't know all the details of Bioware's agreement with Microsoft.

The reapers look kind of like red isopods.

[Johnny C]

Ermm, isnt this a spoiler thread?  Ive already read the whole thread, and I do not have access to play the game (at the present).

Then, and pardon me because this is just out of sheer blistering curiousity, why have you read this thread in favour of the one that is simply about the game?

[Melodic]

There's an achievement that allows Spectre weapons to be sold by the Normandy quartermaster (I forget which one it is). Other than that, there's just the Citadel CSEC quartermaster.

I've already picked up a single VII set from the CSEC QM, and another VII set from the Normandy, but I can't find anywhere that replenishes. Apparently the Normandy stock is supposed to increase eventually, but I'm not sure if this "time" is measured in real-time minutes, or quests completed, or what. I am a sad Spectre.

[Johnny C]

Weird. Every time I land on a populated world he comes back with shit to sell.

[Blue Kitty]

I let Kaiden die, then shattered Liara's hopes and dreams and got booty call from Ashley. It was strangely satisfying to be the first creature to toss her heart/thing into a blender. Next play through Ashley's god-fearing ass is taking the fall.

Is there any video with this or is it just implied?  I was thinking there was some sort of romance you could have with her since Liara asked you about how special she is to you, but I was really pushing to see the video.  Is getting with her harder or easier then getting with Liara?

Let's see
-talked Saren into offing himself
-killed Kaiden, though was sad that I had to sacrifice one of them (didn't use any of them once outside of Eden Prime though)
-didn't kill Wrex, talked him down and got the achievement
-saved the council since I was going for paragon
-put Captain Anderson on the council (my favorite clip was when he decked that prick in his office)

[Storm Rider]

All the romance subplots are equally easy, really.

[Johnny C]

I'm finding the romance subplot much tougher on my second playthrough, because the girls confronted me after either Feros or Noveria the first time and made me choose between them. This time I've basically ignored Liara and it's much tougher to read whether or not I'm actually making headway with Ashley.

At this stage the game is becoming uncomfortably close to real life.

[KvP]

You don't really know that you've made headway with Ashley until the end of the game, when you've committed treason and the penalties for fraternization don't look so bad anymore.

[Johnny C]

Well, I did tell her "I like a challenge."

[jeph]

Ashley is a bitch.

Then again, Liara is basically the sci-fi female version of Piro from Megatokyo.

Also I was really disappointed that the tentacle lookin' things on Liara's head didn't extend out and engulf Shepherd's head during the sex scene.

"Hey baby, that's a fine, blue ass you got there *SHLORP* *GLOMP* MMMFFFF! HRRMMM!! MRRRGFFFN!"

[Dimmukane]

"Hey, baby, let's make a brainslug"

[Melodic]

The romance subplots irritated me, because I felt like there was no distinction between being a nice dude, and trying to get some ass. I was just talking away with Ashley and all of a sudden I get sprung with this whole "we're making innuendo because it's wrong for us to hook up" crap. I didn't want that, I was just being polite! There should be a way to be nice, and also say "you are an ugly bitch and sex in video games is like having a pistol-shaped dildo" or some crap.

[Johnny C]

Ashley is a bitch.

Man, I don't get this at all!

[AngelofShadows]

Ashley is a bitch.

Then again, Liara is basically the sci-fi female version of Piro from Megatokyo.

Also I was really disappointed that the tentacle lookin' things on Liara's head didn't extend out and engulf Shepherd's head during the sex scene.

"Hey baby, that's a fine, blue ass you got there *SHLORP* *GLOMP* MMMFFFF! HRRMMM!! MRRRGFFFN!"

That's what fan-fiction and fan-art are for.

[Alex C]

Ashely's fine most of the time, which makes it even more jarring when she's needlessly bitchy. Like when she wanted to pick on Liara about her sex life. The sheer pettiness of it marked the first time I've ever felt like slapping a videogame character and asking her if she could step out of her highschool mindset for a moment and talk like a grown up. It's not like she's guilty of cartoonish villainy or any other number of video game cliches, but she damn sure is the sort of person I'd take steps to quietly cut out of my life, which I promptly did by leaving her on the Normandy.

[jeph]

I ordered her to die

:3

[Johnny C]

Ashely's fine most of the time, which makes it even more jarring when she's needlessly bitchy. Like when she wanted to pick on Liara about her sex life.

When did this happen?

Ashley for me felt like shit about Liara's mom dying, both times! She made me go talk to her!

[MusicScribbles]

Everyone is having a different game experience! This is cool stuff!
I'm getting the same stuff Johnny C is getting, but I got the bitchiness once, to which I ended up getting Ashley to apologize. I'm not sure how I did this.

[Alex C]

I dunno, I was sitting around while my brother was playing that I saw her being pissy and taking shots at Asari sexuality. Maybe he was leading them both along and got pissed off. I haven't really pay much attention to the fems yet because I got distracted by playing with my Wrex/Garrus/Sentinel Shepard legion of doom combo.

[Johnny C]

the fems

legion of doom

Ah see there's your problem right there.

[Alex C]

See, I didn't mind when Ashley was being bitchy to me though. My character was a grade A asshole. But my brother's character? Straight paragon, and she was still acting crazy.