Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tom]

I should have clarified that.
Firstly, by "one" I mean any entrepreneur and secondly, obscenely rich companies tend to  end up succumbing to their greed and I can't justify feeding that.

[ALoveSupreme]

I've always thought of adult contemporary as the more palatable side of (90s, in my mind) commercial pop music. Bands like Gin Blossoms, Better Than Ezra, Spin Doctors, Natalie Merchant. Maybe it's just nostalgia speaking, but what's so horrible there?

I guess my point is that Indie, weather using the quantifiable definition of affiliation with non-major labels or not, is usually praised by fans and critics alike as being some kind of wondrous, completely visionary form of music.  I believe that about 90% of the time it sounds exactly like extremely basic pop music.
There's absolutly nothing wrong there, and I do love many acts classified as indie for their genuine creativity and ability to create something completely different, and even some acts that just sound like pop-crap.  I guess it's just a pet peeve of mine, and usually I'd just rather listen to something that I haven't heard a hundred times before.

[ALoveSupreme]

I wish I had more time to read these boards so I could catch conversations like that one.

[Patrick]

I thought the mods started locking "what is X Genre" threads like 3 months before I even registered for the boards. That was two and a half years ago.

I've always thought of adult contemporary as the more palatable side of (90s, in my mind) commercial pop music. Bands like Gin Blossoms, Better Than Ezra, Spin Doctors, Natalie Merchant. Maybe it's just nostalgia speaking, but what's so horrible there?

Let's see here...

Gin Blossoms, Better Than Ezra, Spin Doctors, Natalie Merchant.

Oh yeah, that. [/rude]

[Jackie Blue]

I guess my point is that Indie, weather using the quantifiable definition of affiliation with non-major labels or not, is usually praised by fans and critics alike as being some kind of wondrous, completely visionary form of music.

People see what they want to see.  You have a prejudice against what you perceive as an "indie" community.  I think you'll find that fans and critics of all music, indie or otherwise, praise it as being wondrous and visionary.  You just probably come into contact with a lot more "indie" fans than, say, metalheads or country enthusiasts.

For example, a friend of mine who writes for the New York Times and is a nerdy white-boy from way back who grew up on indie rock now goes batshit insane over Rihanna and T.I. as though they're the messiahs of a new revolution in sound.

[ALoveSupreme]

I suppose that may be true, though usually it's a lot easier to tune out anyone who claims Rihanna and T.I. as the second coming, or current-wave country fans who love Rascal Flats.  Also, perhaps since "indie" is clearly the big commercial thing right now, there's more press for it... or something.

[Jackie Blue]

Not really, since even Pitchfork cream themselves every time T.I. puts out a new single.

[Ballard]

Oh god, yes. And don't even get me started on Nas's Illmatic.

[Tom]

I genuinely do not know who T.I. and Nas are.

[ruyi]

what country do you live in?

[Tom]

Australia 

[Scandanavian War Machine]

it must be wonderful

[Tom]

No, not really. We have a lot of Pop-Punk playing on our mainstream radio stations.

[Vancroth]

I'm guessing you don't mean stuff in the vein of Jawbreaker.

[Joseph]

Not to mention the fact that Nas' Illmatic is an brilliant album, and T.I. has put out his fair share of excellent songs.

[Tom]

I'm guessing you don't mean stuff in the vein of Jawbreaker.

Sorry, never heard of them. I believe that Fall Out Boy is what the youngsters are into today.

[mfpole]

Yeah guys, Illmatic is amazing.
And please go listen to Jawbreaker.

And as far as indie goes, it seems to be emerging as a pretty popular term in my school. Panic! at the Disco, the Killers, and even this band Paramore are now suddenly indie. Maybe a new term will come to describe the more eclectic music tastes that I and many of you have, as so happened previously with alternative?

[Patrick]

How the fuck does anybody on earth not know who Nas is? Shit man, I first heard about him from a guy I know in Luxembourg. No excuses.

This post may or may not be a bit dickish due to a pretty decent beer buzz.

[Kai]

Anyone who says 'eclectic' when referring to their 'broad' taste in music is pretty much full of shit, statistics show.

[jimbunny]

Sigh. I'm better than all of you.

[StaedlerMars]

Anyone who says 'eclectic' when referring to their 'broad' taste in music is pretty much full of shit, statistics show.

I've never liked that term. I think it's pretty pretentious. The radio station I have a show on calls itself eclectic, and it's the only reason I dislike it (the station, not the word).

It's also a shitty word in general.

[TheFuriousWombat]

Main Entry:
    eclecˇtic
Function:
    adjective
Definition:
    composed of elements drawn from various sources

Sorry to burst your bubble guys but if you like music from more than a couple different genres you have an eclectic taste in music. Nothing pretentious about it.

[SeanBateman]

I thought the mods started locking "what is X Genre" threads like 3 months before I even registered for the boards. That was two and a half years ago.

I've always thought of adult contemporary as the more palatable side of (90s, in my mind) commercial pop music. Bands like Gin Blossoms, Better Than Ezra, Spin Doctors, Natalie Merchant. Maybe it's just nostalgia speaking, but what's so horrible there?

Let's see here...

Gin Blossoms, Better Than Ezra, Spin Doctors, Natalie Merchant.

Oh yeah, that. [/rude]

Okay I'll give you the rest of that but Natalie Merchant has a really pretty voice and sings nice songs.

[Leinad]

Ok, a) P!ATD sucks so much balls, they put glory holes out of style. B) They are signed with Decaydence, brain child of Pete Wents who plays in *shudders* Fall Out Boy. Third, Paramore is signed by FueledbyRamen, which is either a spring-off of Decaydence, or a something. Third, the Killers kick-ass, don't diss.

Oh, and I like Paramore, they just sure as fuck aren't indie.

[Kai]

Main Entry:
    eclecˇtic
Function:
    adjective
Definition:
    composed of elements drawn from various sources

Sorry to burst your bubble guys but if you like music from more than a couple different genres you have an eclectic taste in music. Nothing pretentious about it.

The actual dictionary definition and the people who use it to describe how they could possibly listen to both Franz Ferdinand AND the Flaming Lips, since, you know, they're both just so out there and you totally wouldn't expect someone who likes one to like the other. at all. ever.

[Tom]

We could always say broad or diverse, those to are far from being pretentious.

[ruyi]

those are all relative terms. the point is the intent in using those terms, and usually it is one of pretention.

how much of the music you listen to only uses the 12-tone scale? how much of it is in 4/4 time? how much of it relies on the same chord progressions? how much of it is based on electronic manipulation, be it synthesizing or amplification? western/u.s. musical ideas may be the most dominant/popular/whatever in terms of social capital, but that hardly stops it from being homogenous.

[Alex C]

I never understood why people got to go around hatin' on adjectives. If someone's being a dick, just punch them. For your sake and the sake of words trapped in abusive relationships everywhere.

[ALoveSupreme]

Ok, a) P!ATD sucks so much balls, they put glory holes out of style. B) They are signed with Decaydence, brain child of Pete Wents who plays in *shudders* Fall Out Boy. Third, Paramore is signed by FueledbyRamen, which is either a spring-off of Decaydence, or a something. Third, the Killers kick-ass, don't diss.

Oh, and I like Paramore, they just sure as fuck aren't indie.

Fueled by Ramen has been around for at least 10 years, and Pete Wentz' label has been around since he has become famous, so maybe a couple years.  This knowledge is what you get for growing up near the well-to-do suburbs of Chicago.

But what does any of this have to do with indie?

Not really, since even Pitchfork cream themselves every time T.I. puts out a new single.

I did not know this, but I thought pitchfork wrote a lot of articles that were not genuine, or something...

And I'd like to state that while I have heard of Nas and T.I., I have never actually heard them.

[kablaaamo]

Yeah guys, Illmatic is amazing.
And please go listen to Jawbreaker.

And as far as indie goes, it seems to be emerging as a pretty popular term in my school. Panic! at the Disco, the Killers, and even this band Paramore are now suddenly indie. Maybe a new term will come to describe the more eclectic music tastes that I and many of you have, as so happened previously with alternative?

Paramore....ow ow ow. My roommates were watching MuchMusic the other day, the video for one of their songs came on and holy crap they are bland.

....and regardless of the adjective you use, to me words like broad/diverse/eclectic signify the sort of person who says 'oh, I like everything!' Chances are solid that no, no you don't. I've never understood what's wrong with having focused taste and knowing specifically what you like. Being closed-minded and a jerk about it isn't cool, but bragging about being eclectic as a knee-jerk in the other direction isn't cool either.

(Yes, I realize my hypocrisy in saying that you shouldn't be closed-minded while slagging off Paramore in the same post but that band is seriously pretty bad guys.)

And alas, you can't punch out everyone that uses an adjective you disagree with, be it 'eclectic' or 'indie'.

[Jackie Blue]

how much of the music you listen to only uses the 12-tone scale? how much of it is in 4/4 time? how much of it relies on the same chord progressions? how much of it is based on electronic manipulation, be it synthesizing or amplification? western/u.s. musical ideas may be the most dominant/popular/whatever in terms of social capital, but that hardly stops it from being homogenous.

This is a far more neck-punchingly pretentious paragraph than someone saying they have eclectic musical taste because they like Willie Nelson, Public Enemy and the Sun City Girls.

Seriously, this thread.  God.

[Jackie Blue]

I call total and complete bullshit, tommy.

Just because Western music in general follows some conventions doesn't mean that there isn't a range and that one can't be eclectic within that range.

Apply this to literature.  Literature generally follows conventions of grammar, spelling, tense and perspective.  All literature written or translated into English uses the same 26 letters and almost never uses made-up words.  All of it.  But how could it be anything less than eclectic to enjoy both Terry Pratchett and J.D. Salinger?

Also, I have never heard anyone claim to be "eclectic" because they like "Franz Ferdinand AND the Flaming Lips".

Finally, terms are relative.  In comparison to the average music listener, it is definitely abberant to the norm to listen to more than a few genres which are, at least on the surface, worlds apart.  Do The Pipettes and Bardo Pond generally follow the same Western musical conventions?  Oh, sure, whatever, I guess so.  Do they sound anything alike?  No.  No, they do not.

This whole argument is stemming from some ridiculously cooler-than-cool refusal to be perceived as attempting to be cool.  Which is bullshit that people should outgrow by the age of 21, or at least 25.  I don't know how old you guys are, but I outgrew all that shit a long time ago.

My musical taste is eclectic.  Fuck you if you think I'm trying to be "cool" by saying that.  I'm just trying to be precise.

[Jackie Blue]

I'm saying that I've seen this argument a million times.  People who say "Oh, no matter how different the music you listen to is, you're still not eclectic because most of it still uses notes and chords".  And I'm saying that offering up that argument is, as you said, a kind of meta-pretension which boils down to one person saying to another:

I'm so cool that I can prove you aren't.

There are people who think it's cool and impressive to listen to "varied" music.  There are some on this forum.

But there are also some people who say they listen to "all kinds of music", or who say "my tastes are eclectic", or who say "I listen to pretty much everything, as long as it's good" with no agenda other than to convey:

It would take me thirty minutes to give you a list of bands I like which would properly express how absolutely schizophrenic my musical taste is.

I don't think it's particularly interesting or cool that I like bands which are on the opposite of the musical spectrum which most people acknowledge.  I just think it's true.

I'm not going to say that there aren't douchebags who say things like "I listen to so many jazz artists, I can't even name you any" in an attempt to be cool.  There sure are.  But to tar everyone who says "I listen to a wide range of music" with the epithet "pretentious" or to say they're being inaccurate because "Oh, well, all that music falls within the range that the human ear can decode, so clearly it's not really all that different" are equally kind of pedantically hipper-than-thou.

[Jackie Blue]

Edit - Also, I can't see anyone in this thread saying that your taste in music isn't 'eclectic'. I don't know what you listen to so maybe it is. I don't really see why you are defending yourself against personal accusations that haven't actually been made.

But there have been people saying that "nobody" has eclectic musical taste, and since I am somebody, I am included in the set of people being referred to as being unable to claim an eclectic musical taste.

[Jackie Blue]

You mean you actually understand why you like the music you do?

That must be weird.  I can't ever explain why I like what I do.

I disregard the "indie/mainstream" thing entirely, see long Melancholy Rhino article on page 1.

The only people I know who say "I listen to indie rock" are like 38 and mean "I listen to 80s-90s lo-fi alternative and can't even spell Neutral Milk Hotel".

[Vancroth]

I don't know. I sometimes say, "I listen to indie rock," when someone asks what I like, but in that I don't really care kind of way.  I've found that it tends to go over better with people than actually listing names.  I listen to other stuff, but that seems to be the safest response when with people I might like, but who only have a casual interest in music.  What would be a more appropriate response?  "I like lots of stuff" just seems like an even emptier response and does seem to carry a connotation of either a lack of interest or pretentiousness.

[ruyi]

Also, I have never heard anyone claim to be "eclectic" because they like "Franz Ferdinand AND the Flaming Lips".

Finally, terms are relative.  In comparison to the average music listener, it is definitely abberant to the norm to listen to more than a few genres which are, at least on the surface, worlds apart.

i've heard people claim to be eclectic because they like michelle branch AND the wreckers. is that close enough? i mean, you're right, terms are relative, so isn't it kind of contradictory to be talking about 'the average music listener'? i would have guessed that the average music listener likely does listen to different genres, but whatever.

i would say most people would describe their own musical taste as eclectic. it's just perceptional bias. sorry, i hope you did not think i was seriously trying to criticize this. i still think it is a form of pretentiousness but it is one that i am guilty of as well and it is probably something intrinsic in human nature. anyone claiming to be above it would indeed be full of shit. everyone's happy about the music they listen to because they spent time and effort seeking it out. there's nothing wrong with that.

This whole argument is stemming from some ridiculously cooler-than-cool refusal to be perceived as attempting to be cool.  Which is bullshit that people should outgrow by the age of 21, or at least 25.  I don't know how old you guys are, but I outgrew all that shit a long time ago.

isn't that a bit unfair of you then, criticizing me for something i'm intrinsically incapable of?

My musical taste is eclectic.  Fuck you if you think I'm trying to be "cool" by saying that.  I'm just trying to be precise.

hm. i did say the key was intent in using terms like eclectic, but perhaps i made a mistake in saying it is 'usually' one of pretentiousness. i should have just said 'sometimes'. but is one word really enough to make you feel like i was criticizing you personally?

I don't think it's particularly interesting or cool that I like bands which are on the opposite of the musical spectrum which most people acknowledge.  I just think it's true.

I'm not going to say that there aren't douchebags who say things like "I listen to so many jazz artists, I can't even name you any" in an attempt to be cool.  There sure are.  But to tar everyone who says "I listen to a wide range of music" with the epithet "pretentious" or to say they're being inaccurate because "Oh, well, all that music falls within the range that the human ear can decode, so clearly it's not really all that different" are equally kind of pedantically hipper-than-thou.

i guess i was just trying to say the same thing, that some people are douchebags, but not all? you are right though, i am pedantic. but that will just go away after i grow up in a few years.

[Jackie Blue]

If you read that old thread I linked earlier I was saying that a lot of people who like 'Indie' think it is very different from mainstream music. It's not, which is the point Ruyi was trying to make.

I'll take your word for it.  To me it seemed much more that she was making the point that it's not eclectic to listen to both Metal Machine Music and Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band, or to listen to Fear of a Black Planet and In the Aeroplane Over the Sea.  In the former case, such "music" really doesn't use 4/4 time or chords or scales or other Western music conventions (and neither do many other types of bands, everything form Wolf Eyes to The Charalambides).  In the latter case, it's not even about the music, it's about the mood and presentation.  I don't think you can disregard lyrics and attitude when deciding if one artist is in any way similar to another.

When people ask me what kind of music I listen to, I just say "everything" and try to change the subject.  I've found that in any situation where someone asks me "What kind of music do you listen to?" they're generally the kind of person that I have no interest in talking about music with anyhow.

[Jackie Blue]

i guess i was just trying to say the same thing, that some people are douchebags, but not all? you are right though, i am pedantic. but that will just go away after i grow up in a few years.

I think you're just too involved in over-analyzing the tastes of others, or the intent of their declaration of said taste, or whatever.  I don't care what anybody else in the world listens to and would rather just talk about bands than their fans.

Which is why I tried to end this thread on page 1.

Unfortunately when I have time on my hands and beer in my system I am apt to get into these pointless debates.

Curse you, Internet.  Curse you.

[Patrick]

western/u.s. musical ideas may be the most dominant/popular/whatever in terms of social capital, but that hardly stops it from being homogenous.

I think that since all the old ideas are already played out, some musicians decided "Okay screw this, we're going to do what WE want now using some less outdated ideas, and if people actually like it, then cool." And for a while now, the specific sounds of the forerunners of that artistic movement are being emulated and commercialized, and it apparently pisses people off.

You know what I think?

BLAH BLAH BLAH GUYS IT'S HAPPENED WITH EVERY SINGLE ARTISTIC MOVEMENT OR TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCE IN HISTORY. Something gets popular? Other people want to ride the gravy train. It's a mixture of good business practice and human nature. The Greeks use columns and people think it looks rad? Oh shit, here comes Rome saying "Sup guys, our most important buildings have columns now." Somebody invents the gun and they start winning wars and gaining new territory. Soon enough, everybody's got guns and it's a clusterfuck bloodbath. Somebody uses carbon fiber construction to make their race cars lighter, and they go faster and win more often? Soon enough, everybody's doing it.

tl;dr - Copypasta is how we humans work, we can stop caring and go home, there's nothing to see here.

P.S. - Don't try to argue with Roo, she's too damn good at it.

[Jackie Blue]

P.S. - Don't try to argue with Roo, she's too damn good at it.

And people wonder why I stop posting here for months at a time sometimes (aside from out-of-town show-playing).

[Patrick]

P.P.S. - Don't be dramatic, you should know by now that I don't hate you.

[Jackie Blue]

Didn't say anybody hates or dislikes me.

[dalconnsuch]

thats a good question overall, what IS indie? is indie something you can even DEFINE in terms like other musical "cultures?" bah, its almost rhetorical

[Patrick]

Dead thread is dead

[carrotosaurus]

I DO COCAINE!