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[a pack of wolves]

There's been some serious emo activity in the mediafire thread and somebody asked for recommendations of old school emo bands, so instead of taking up tons of space in there I decided it would be easier to start a thread for some emo chat. So, down to the business of some essentials.

Rites of Spring - the undisputed godfathers of emo. So much has been said about this band over the years I'm not sure what I can add. They were key to revolution summer in Washington DC, year zero for emo basically. People were sick of the macho bullshit in the hardcore scene so decided to shake things up with music the tough guys would hate but was as intense as what had come before. Wearing your heart on your sleeve never sounded this good before.

Embrace - the marmite of emo. So many people loathe this band for Ian Mackaye's vocals but personally I love them, I do see where they're coming from though. This band was basically the old line-up of Faith with Ian replacing his brother on vocals. Sadly the tensions that led to the end of Faith were still there and they were very short-lived, but in their brief career they did give us one of the building blocks of the emo sound.

The Hated - this was the band that took emo out on the road so people who weren't from DC got to hear it (they were from Maryland if I remember right), criminally overlooked these days. All their records are now out of press although I hear Troubleman Unlimited are doing a discog, but that's been supposed to be happening for years so who knows when it'll see the light of day. Very melodic with those classic out of tune vocals used to much in emo, they're probably the early emo band with the greatest distance from hardcore.

Moss Icon - another of the first emo bands from outside DC, Moss Icon ploughed a much more hardcore furrow than The Hated in their later recordings. Some of my favourites though are songs like the compilation track Cornflower Blue which are incredibly vulnerable, sounding like complicated poetry set to music.

Mohinder - I've jumped forward quite a while now to get onto screamo. Screamo is where emo moves back from the gentler sound of their precursors to create something that was just as un-macho but far more aggressive at the same time. Mohinder's lyrics read like short poems just a couple of lines long, screamed and repeated to chaotic music.

Orchid - one thing people often forget about emo is that it's actually extremely political, it's the side of punk rock with the greatest adherence to the DIY ethic and usually fiercely anti-homophobia, anti-sexist, anti-racist and often inclined towards far left/autonomous/anarchist politics. They think it's all about lyrics related to lost loves and the like, and although that kind of thing comes up it's actually more common for a band's lyrics to be utterly enigmatic or highly charged political polemics. This is hardcore music after all. Orchid combined the two, unafraid to be highly intellectual, critical of the scene they came from's consumerism and shallowness, namedrop Foucault and Adorno and try and bring the sexiness back into hardcore at the same time. Musically, the also often upped the brutality on even the likes of Mohinder with songs that are the sound of what happens when screamo and grindcore meet head-on.

Okay, that's all for now. This is not a list of the most important bands at all (no Cap'n Jazz, Braid, Native Nod, Swing Kids and so many others many would argue should be mentioned before many of that lot) just the first few I felt like mentioning.

[Jackie Blue]

Envy are really good.

[sean]

Envy are really good.

Agreed! I posted them in the mediafire thread a while ago. You should listen to them.
Other emo/scremo bands people should listen to:

City of Caterpillar- excellent post-rock feeling emo. Pleanty of long, slow, building dirges leading up to passonite bursts.
Saetia- One of the most definitive scremo bands. Brilliant musicianship all around.
Circle Takes the Square- Probably one of my favorite bands ever. Expect complete insanity.
Hot Cross- brilliant emo band that just broke up last summer. They had the same singer and drummer as Saetia. They have absoutely brilliant guitar parts.

Bleh, I suck at describing bands. Oh well. Listen to those guys too.

[Chad K.]

Great second wave Emo bands-

early Sunny Day Real Estate
Mineral
Texas is the Reason
Elliot
later Braid
Camber
The Casket Lottery
late Brandston
early The Get Up Kids
early JeJune
Further Seems Forever
early Jimmy Eat World
The Appleseed Cast
early The Anniversary
Christie Front Drive
Split Lip/Chamberlain

[Misereatur]

I hate grocery band lists.

Also,

Envy are really good.

I don't know, I find them kind of boring. Are we talking about the japanese Envy?

[Chad K.]

I hate grocery band lists.

A thousand pardons.  Here ya go-

Sunny Day Real Estate - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
Mineral- quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
Texas is the Reason - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
Elliot- quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
later Braid- quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
Camber- quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
The Casket Lottery- quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
late Brandston - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
early The Get Up Kids - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
early JeJune - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
Further Seems Forever - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
early Jimmy Eat World - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
The Appleseed Cast - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
early The Anniversary - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
Christie Front Drive - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.
Split Lip/Chamberlain - quiet/loud style single note picking and octave chords, breathy vocals mixed with screaming.

[doki]

everything you need to know about emo you can learn from three bands:


Weezer
Smashing Pumpkins
Queen

[Storm Rider]

...What does Queen have to do with emo at all?

[TrialAndTerror]

Well if I'm going to start posting on here, it's good to see people have a sense of humour.

Obvious post for an emo thread - www.fourfa.com Not exactly definitive, but covers the bases pretty well.

Random rec - everyone should listen to Assfactor 4, just for being called that and being good.
Random fact - Orchid, despite all their intellectual references, couldn't spell for shit. Or at least whoever designed their album art couldn't. Epilouge To A Car Crash?

Seeing as most of your main bands have been named, how about this - Emo is a stupid genre name, and gets stupider all the time. Covers at least three distinct styles of music without even going into screamo or emo-influenced stuff. That said, it is awesome.

[sean]

Emo may be a terrible genre name, but a lot of genre's are terribly named. Post-Rock? That name is horribly stupid and covers way too many types of instrumental music, from Tortoise to Mogwai. Indie is even worse, but we shan't speak of that here. Too much controversy.

And we live in a sad world if My Chemical Romance can be considered "definitive" by any standard.

[TrialAndTerror]

Yeah but when other people want to know what you like and you say NOT CRAP they get pretty defensive. I always say anything i can dance to. Of course moshing and just generally jumping around while screaming a lot are included under dancing.

I actually got into emo because Q magazine called Weezer emo and I liked the song Hash Pipe when I was 14.

Anyone ever listen to The Emo Diaries comp series? Deep Elm put it out back when they had some really good bands. There's a whole bunch of styles on there, but the inserts always said emo was more about an ideal behind the music rather than a genre. I think this is pretty good, i.e. that band is such and such genre, but also emo. Blah.

[12-tone]

...What does Queen have to do with emo at all?

Massive influence on My Chemical Romance who are now the definitive "Emo" band.

See, this nonsense works both ways.

This was my point.

I just wanted to say that the beginning to whatever that first single from The Black Parade was (I think it was the title track?) only sounds like a Queen song because the intro is Canon in D. Queen loved to do the Canon thing in their songs.

[doki]

I just wanted to say that the beginning to whatever that first single from The Black Parade was (I think it was the title track?) only sounds like a Queen song because the intro is Canon in D. Queen loved to do the Canon thing in their songs.

accusing someone of stealing canon in d is like complaining about a song having a C chord in it. Green day stole canon as well. Do THEY sound anything like queen?

The Black Parade's guitar solo is almost note for note Bohemian Rhapsody's guitar solo.  There is one difference that tipped me off to the whole thing   

[12-tone]

A lot of songs use the progression, yeah. I've seen the "Pachelbel rant" video too. The beginning of that song just Canon in D.

Also, I wasn't really trying to start an argument about it.

[Nodaisho]

...What does Queen have to do with emo at all?

Massive influence on My Chemical Romance who are now the definitive "Emo" band.

See, this nonsense works both ways.

This was my point.

We forgive Queen for it though, How were any of them supposed to know they would inspire a crappy band?

Actually... any good band likely inspires plenty of bad bands, but not many of them get that big.

[Kai]

Moss Icon was a pretty great band, I reckon.

Also, do you think Mineral are worth a mention? While not specifically "first wave emo" I'd say they were pretty influential and put out two really good records.

[Scarychips]

Moneen could be considered as Emo, but hell they make great music, I might upload "The Red Tree" later

[imapiratearg]

Moneen are alright.  I have a few of their songs and thought the were cool.  "If Tragedy's Appealing, Then Disaster's an Addiction" is a really catchy song.

[Near Lurker]

Of course, ask pretty much any band that considers themselves "emo" to name a particular song that inspired them, and you can bet a certain Queen song will come up.

Although you can ask quite a few bands that aren't emo...

[supersheep]

Y'know, when this thread began it was about music in a paticular style that is often termed emo rather than being about how the chord progression of Pechelbel's Canon in D is a pretty common one.

I liked THAT thread.

[Leinad]

WARNING! I AM GAY FOR MCR!


Now, got that out of the way. I would just like to say: Fucking hypocrites. You claim to be music lovers, or at least like music, yet you let the production and distribution of an album get in the way of your opinion of said music. I know that you guys won't actually admit to this and I'll just get bitched out, but whatever. I bet if nobody heard of MCR and you guys found them, you would get drunk and masturbate to them, like you do for Mogwai.

So maybe they have become incredibly popular, and maybe they even sold out to the extent that they wrote music that was likely to sell, but if you ignore all that, ignore the cheesy statements and press releases by the band members, and just listen to the music, they kick serious ass. The emotion in the lyrics is not only strong, it is portrayed in a way that is touching and easy to feel, but not packaged in such a manner that it is painful to listen to. Plus they are not only the heart-throb kind of emo but they also encapsulate an endearing kind of irony and self-derision in their music that is intriguing to study. Their essay on the state of the world is not an unpopular one, but it is what they want to say, and they do so well. Just because they are not a minority doesn't mean they should be ignored.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

I'm just going to take this opportunity to express my admiration for Texas is the Reason: Yes.

[Alex C]

No, we wouldn't get the same kind of stiffies we get for mogwai, and that doesn't make any of us hypocrites.

 I genuinely don't care for MCR, and I -like- shiny production and pop stylings. In fact, I'll go so far to say this: I believe Butch Vig has been a net benefit to my life as a music listener. Try getting your average indie snob to admit to that one. But MCR? They're really not that good. They've got super compressed guitars and standard song structures wedded to cliched music videos, just like practically every other vaguely punk influenced pop rock band that's come out since what seems like the beginning of time now. They're not the worst band I've ever heard by a long shot, but I can't imagine really giving a shit about them either, and calling them a definitive Emo band is hopelessly misguided.

[Joseph]

WARNING! I AM GAY FOR MCR!


Now, got that out of the way. I would just like to say: Fucking hypocrites. You claim to be music lovers, or at least like music, yet you let the production and distribution of an album get in the way of your opinion of said music. I know that you guys won't actually admit to this and I'll just get bitched out, but whatever. I bet if nobody heard of MCR and you guys found them, you would get drunk and masturbate to them, like you do for Mogwai.

So maybe they have become incredibly popular, and maybe they even sold out to the extent that they wrote music that was likely to sell, but if you ignore all that, ignore the cheesy statements and press releases by the band members, and just listen to the music, they kick serious ass. The emotion in the lyrics is not only strong, it is portrayed in a way that is touching and easy to feel, but not packaged in such a manner that it is painful to listen to. Plus they are not only the heart-throb kind of emo but they also encapsulate an endearing kind of irony and self-derision in their music that is intriguing to study. Their essay on the state of the world is not an unpopular one, but it is what they want to say, and they do so well. Just because they are not a minority doesn't mean they should be ignored.

You're completely right.  I only listen to records that are obscure and are not marketable and do not sell well.

Excuse me while I dispose of the *NSYNC greatest hits album that is within arms reach right now.

(seriously)

(Except not with regards to disposing of it.)

[doki]

WARNING! I AM GAY FOR MCR!


Now, got that out of the way. I would just like to say: Fucking hypocrites. You claim to be music lovers, or at least like music, yet you let the production and distribution of an album get in the way of your opinion of said music. I know that you guys won't actually admit to this and I'll just get bitched out, but whatever. I bet if nobody heard of MCR and you guys found them, you would get drunk and masturbate to them, like you do for Mogwai.

So maybe they have become incredibly popular, and maybe they even sold out to the extent that they wrote music that was likely to sell, but if you ignore all that, ignore the cheesy statements and press releases by the band members, and just listen to the music, they kick serious ass. The emotion in the lyrics is not only strong, it is portrayed in a way that is touching and easy to feel, but not packaged in such a manner that it is painful to listen to. Plus they are not only the heart-throb kind of emo but they also encapsulate an endearing kind of irony and self-derision in their music that is intriguing to study. Their essay on the state of the world is not an unpopular one, but it is what they want to say, and they do so well. Just because they are not a minority doesn't mean they should be ignored.

see, this is totally not my problem with mcr

my problem with MCR is the same as my problem with Mika.  they're trying way too hard to be Queen when really we only need one Queen.  and that Queen was Queen.  I should point out that dispite the fact there probably isn't anyone on the planet that hasn't heard of Queen, they are one of my favorite bands.  the point you make about a band being mainstream not necessarily being bad holds a lot of water, i mean that honestly, but the reason I PERSONALLY do not like MCR is because they are, along with those FUCKS Panic at the Disco, are treading the same ground Queen trod (?) back in the 70's with A Night At the Opera and A Day At The Races, only nowhere near as well

[ImRonBurgundy?]

Exactly.  Queen's musical trademarks are too singular to be any sort of genre conventions.  Any band who tries to cop such tropes will invariably be compared to Queen, and, unless Freddie Mercury is their frontman somehow, invariably come up short.

[Nodaisho]

No, I wouldn't like MCR if it wasn't popular, most of the bands that I listen to have gotten some popular notice, at some point in time at least, not necessarily recently. I just don't like pseudo-punk music with horribly faked emotions. Or pseudo-punk music with real emotions, now that you mention it. I don't mind faked emotions, as long as they seem real, but I will not abide poor musicianship.

And honestly? Mogwai hasn't really managed to catch my attention for anything other than having a name similar to moogle. Maybe I just haven't heard the right stuff.

@RonBurgundy: If zombie Freddie mercury were heading a band, I would have to go to a show, no matter what kind of music they were playing, just to see it. And be in the back, in case he goes after rains.

[doki]

i like gremlins, thats where mogwai comes from

[jeph]

man it freaks me out so bad

back in the day Orchid was one of the house bands at Hampshire when I was there

so weird

[Johnny C]

On a regular day I wake up, have a shower, brush my teeth and proceed to have vigourous intercourse with a pressed copy of Despistado's album.

[amok]

WARNING! I AM GAY FOR MCR!

should've known it was safe to stop reading here.

I'm just going to take this opportunity to express my admiration for Texas is the Reason: Yes.

seconded.

what's a good Cap'n Jazz cd to start with, anyone?

[Clintaga]

I am extremely okay with this thread and the discussions within this thread. I am also a diehard member of the MCRmy and have been since there first album back in High School. I feel like they're not trying to be Queen, they just have a lot of inspiration from that band.
Also, the truth is that a lot of the Hipsters actually WONT like MCR. Those are generally two comepletely different audiences. Also, anyone who is really into the bands that MCR wishes they sounded like just won't give a fuckl. I personally prefer MCR to Queen, because thats my musical inclination.
I've come to accept that I like a lot of music the majority of trendy music nerds dislike, but you know, the funny thing is that they aren't me, and due to the miracle of Earbuds, they don't have to hear anything they don't like that I'm playing. I also recently began to man up whenever anyone takes potshots at "shitty Music" I like because I support the bands I am pro.

Bands I have lost street cred for defending:
Post Green Album-Weezer
My Chemical Romance
Form of Rocket
Panic! at the Disco.

A great example is my best buddy Onewheelwizzard. He posts on these forums like whoa, and he's totally into Dead Meadow, Om, Do Make Say Think, etc. I dig stoner rock occasionally, but I'm mostly a *gag* "post-Rock" head with a massive Emo-foundation. Please continue the discussion while I write all these band names down.

[amok]

maybe we should make a separate thread about 'hipsters' slagging off MCR and the counter-hipster backlash because I liked this one much more when it was about emo bands and going by the title I'd imagine that was wolves' main objective here

[ImRonBurgundy?]

what's a good Cap'n Jazz cd to start with, anyone?

Their 2-disc anthology has everything they ever recorded, I believe.  I have that one.

[TrialAndTerror]

Psh, you go to sleep for eight hours and people start arguing about MCR and hipster elitism...

I liked their 1st album whenever it came out, but I gave it away a couple of years ago and don't miss it. I'd never listen to PATD on CD, but when they come on in a club I will damn well be out on the floor. I also hate Queen. I guess people like different stuff for different reasons.

Texas Is The Reason = Awesomeness. Does anyone have their EP? How does it compare to Do You Know Who You Are?

Mineral were fantastic, but considering how much they were "influenced" by Sunny Day, I don't know if calling them influential themselves would be right. Great band though.

Was anyone else seriously gutted that Hot Cross broke up last year?

[TrialAndTerror]

Haha I think in certain situations the testicle-talk can be deserved. Thanks for the welcome, this place seems cooler than many on these here interwebs.

Mmm, I probably prefer Mineral too, heard them first though. Kept being told they were a SDRE ripoff... I can see it, sure, but I like Mineral's style more. Boy's Life! Only have Departures and Landfalls, that is one fantastic record. Shockingly don't have any CFD, think I need to fix that soon.

[calenlass]

Guys I kind of like Hawthorne Heights. Do they count?

[camelpimp]

I don't have fond memories of my chemical romance. The bastard left me the next day and never called!

Oh death is not good enough for me.

[Catacombs]

of course this thread is missing something:  http://www.emogame.com/v3/

also, theres this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGLv3IEL0VI

"kyle gets all the girls!"

[Chad K.]

I think this whole discussion about what is and is not emo (including the MCR posts) is about as emo as it gets.  The problem with the term "emo" is that it went through so many movements it is now unrecognizable as a single form of music.  It's almost laughable how much bands in the 80's and 90's struggled to get away from a term that they felt limited what they could do as band and how they were received by the fans.  (SDRE's proggy near Yes inspired "The Rising Tide," Jimmy Eat World's poppy "Bleed American," Chamberlain's roots rock "My Moon My Saddle" are all perfect examples of bands denying any sense of conventions that the term "emo" may hold over them).  It seems now that bands are clamoring for the moniker because it lends some sort of indie cred to major label bands, thereby potentially selling more cds.

The thing about the term is it has what's normally called "The Family Problem".  In essence, early emo bads may have had qualities AB, while second wave emo bands may have had qualities BC, and a third wave qualities CD.  Now, despite the fact that we use the term emo for all those bands, bands having qualities AB and CD don't have anything in common with one another, they only have something in common with the intervening wave.  That's an oversimplification, but think of it this way- what the hell does Rights of Spring have in common with the Promise Ring?  Very little.  

[michaelicious]

what's a good Cap'n Jazz cd to start with, anyone?

They only had one true full-length (Burritos, Inspiration Point, Fork Balloon Sports, Cards in the Spokes, Automatic Biographies, Kites, Kung Fu, Trophies, Banana Peels We've Slipped on and Egg Shells We've Tippy Toed Over) and it is damn hard to find.

But as ImRonBurgundy? said the two-disc anthology with an equally cumbersome title has all of their recorded material. It is called Analphabetapolothology and I would be happy to upload it in the mediafire thread for you.

[sandman263]

WARNING! I AM GAY FOR MCR!


Now, got that out of the way. I would just like to say: Fucking hypocrites. You claim to be music lovers, or at least like music, yet you let the production and distribution of an album get in the way of your opinion of said music. I know that you guys won't actually admit to this and I'll just get bitched out, but whatever. I bet if nobody heard of MCR and you guys found them, you would get drunk and masturbate to them, like you do for Mogwai.

So maybe they have become incredibly popular, and maybe they even sold out to the extent that they wrote music that was likely to sell, but if you ignore all that, ignore the cheesy statements and press releases by the band members, and just listen to the music, they kick serious ass. The emotion in the lyrics is not only strong, it is portrayed in a way that is touching and easy to feel, but not packaged in such a manner that it is painful to listen to. Plus they are not only the heart-throb kind of emo but they also encapsulate an endearing kind of irony and self-derision in their music that is intriguing to study. Their essay on the state of the world is not an unpopular one, but it is what they want to say, and they do so well. Just because they are not a minority doesn't mean they should be ignored.

Some facts:

• MCR wreck my head - I find their music terribly lightweight, and the way they're marketed to anyone who'll listen as whatever genre is "in" for the teenagers these days.
• I like early Jimmy Eat World, and found them when I liked "Bleed American" (thus destroying your "you people let production get in the way of liking an album" argument)
• I like early Taking Back Sunday, along with a slew of other emo bands, some overproduced, others not
• I listen to a huge range of music - I'm not going to name genres, but my tastes vary hugely, and include some cookie-cutter pop released in the last few years
• If you want emotion in your music, I'd encourage you to look further afield than the first thing that catches your attention, and is marketed to you by coporations looking for your money
• I don't like Mogwai

Please, if you're going to contribute, would you mind not attacking me for my music tastes, which you know nothing about, and provide something a little more useful than undereducated, childish temper tantrusm?

[Leinad]

Excuse me while I dispose of the *NSYNC greatest hits album that is within arms reach right now.

incredibly they are my second favorite band, probably of all time.

[TrialAndTerror]

I once spent a good half-hour saying Analphabetapolothology over and over until I could say it perfectly everytime in various voices and ended up trying to make a sort of nursery-rhyme sort of thing out of it. Good times.

Did NSYNC do "Bye Bye Bye"? I've got the Further Seems Forever cover of that and I like it an awful lot...

[amok]

But as ImRonBurgundy? said the two-disc anthology with an equally cumbersome title has all of their recorded material. It is called Analphabetapolothology and I would be happy to upload it in the mediafire thread for you.

that'd be fantastic, thanks!

[Cartilage Head]

I am so goddamn mad that you guys are at all comparing MCR to Queen. I am so mad.

[camelpimp]

Looking at the track names on Analphabetapolothology I wonder... is a band named after every single Cap'n Jazz song or what?

[Skibas_clavicle]

I don't know if they count into what you kids are classifying as 'early emo' but I really dig The Promise Ring.

[sandman263]

I am so goddamn mad that you guys are at all comparing MCR to Queen. I am so mad.

So am I. One was known for their musical diversity, were one of the greatest and most influential bands of the last 30 years (with bands such as Foo Fighters, The Germs, Guns N' Roses, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Manic Street Preachers, Muse,  Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins all stating they were an influence), and also contributed to arena rock, hard rock,pop rock and progressive rock (amongst many other genres).

The other is a marketing vehicle for trapping consumer dollars.

[imapiratearg]

Looking at the track names on Analphabetapolothology I wonder... is a band named after every single Cap'n Jazz song or what?

Probably.