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Author Topic: Folk Music and the Environment  (Read 78758 times)

jimbunny

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Folk Music and the Environment
« on: 12 Jan 2008, 13:46 »

Ran across this song; one of my all time favorite artists, Daisy May -

http://www.savethewildup.org/downstream/

(The best I've ever heard her voice on a recording, which is to say, to die for.)

She's on the Earthwork Music label (www.earthworkmusic.com), which, in addition to putting out really excellent folk music, gets involved with local environmental issues and farming (in the state of Michigan). Check it out for the music.

Also, wondering if you all had songs/artists you really liked (any genre) that could be considered 'environmentally conscious.'
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Jackie Blue

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #1 on: 12 Jan 2008, 14:01 »

EARTH CRISIS.

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jimbunny

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #2 on: 12 Jan 2008, 14:08 »

Quote from: EARTH CRISIS MySpace
This is the new ethic. Animals' lives are their own and must be given respect. Reject the anthropocentric falsehood that maintains the oppressive hierarchy of mankind over the animals. It's time to set them free. Their lives reduced to biomachines in the factory, farm and laboratory. Dairy, eggs and meat, fur, suede, wool, leather are the end products of torture, confinement and murder. I abjure their use out of reverence for all innocent life. Wildlifes' right to live in peace in their natural environment without this civilization's interference can no longer be denied. Must no longer be denied. To make a civilization worthy of the word civilized the cruelty must end, starting within or own lives. Reject the anthropocentric falsehood that maintains the oppressive hierarchy of mankind over the animals. It's time to set them free. Veganism is the essence of compassion and peaceful living. The animals are not ours to abuse or dominate. I abjure their use out of reverence for all innocent life.
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Jackie Blue

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #3 on: 12 Jan 2008, 14:10 »

Holy shit they're still around.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #4 on: 12 Jan 2008, 14:11 »

they sure do like the word "abjure".
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #5 on: 12 Jan 2008, 14:16 »

just a heads up, i'm resisting the urge to post here one of my anti vegan rants.  i'm gonna wait and see how this thread turns out first.
on the topic, music and issues have always gone hand in hand.  dont question it, accept it
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #6 on: 12 Jan 2008, 14:22 »

I guess I should explain for you young'uns, Earth Crisis, despite being kind of horrible musically, are notoriously hypocritical - at one point in the mid-90s or so it became common knowledge that the band members ate meat and fucked groupies and smoked and drank and everything else.

Then, all the kids who had gotten Earth Crisis tattoos felt like idiots.
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Nodaisho

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #7 on: 12 Jan 2008, 14:23 »

So I have two questions.

1) Are they going to scold mountain lions for hunting their food? Maybe suggest tofu-rabbits?

2) Are they going to yell at bikers wearing leathers, or stick with the old ladies in fur coats?

@zero: Ah, I see, I never heard of them.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #8 on: 12 Jan 2008, 15:08 »

1) Mountain Lions don't breed their food in horrible conditions, gas the undesireable ones at birth, etc. Also, certain animals need to eat meat to survive, such as felines. Also, are you suggesting people are as aware as mountain lions, or mountain lions are as aware as humans? Also your point is similar to being against people who don't support people eating their own children if they smell wrong, using the argument "because hamsters do it".

2) Considering you've never heard of them, and I assume you're talking about Earth Crisis (I have never heard of them either, but there was a hilarious Earth Crisis tattoo in the tattoo thread), how do you know who they yell at, if anyone at all?

one of my anti vegan rants.

No offense, but I hope it's reasonably legible.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #9 on: 12 Jan 2008, 16:03 »

1) I agree that the meat breeding and killing market (what is the term for that again? I know there is one) is frequently inhumane, but their statement made no distinction between seal-clubbers, feedlot operators, and people that hunt only as much as they can eat, or hunt and donate the meat to soup kitchens. I would personally like to become one of those people that never eats meat that they haven't hunted themselves, but I don't think I could intentionally take the life of an animal, so I will probably end up continuing to eat meat from inhumanely-treated animals, since if I didn't see it happen, it is fine. Funny how the human mind works, isn't it?

I don't think that humans should do something solely because animals do it, I have even less desire to lick my hindside than I have ability to do so. The point I was making is that their statement seemed to imply that somehow we should go back to nature, some sort of paradise, when really, natural living would be living on the verge of starving and always living in fear of something that might consider you food.

2)By the quote I saw, they were sounding like the PETA people that yell at people wearing fur, throw paint/ketchup on them, etc, my comment was noting how those people never seem to aggravate the people that might respond in a less than civil way (civil: adj. running away from trouble and hoping it leaves you alone or someone else helps you).
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Ocarina654

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #10 on: 12 Jan 2008, 16:29 »

Stop the violence against plant life!  Our vegtable brothers and sisters have been oppressed too long.  They're lives are as precious as our own and the systematic killing to fill your empty stomachs only empties your heart and soul.

Stop the violence.  Eat dirt instead.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #11 on: 12 Jan 2008, 17:02 »

Quote from: EARTH CRISIS MySpace
This is the new ethic. Animals' lives are their own and must be given respect. Reject the anthropocentric falsehood that maintains the oppressive hierarchy of mankind over the animals. It's time to set them free. Their lives reduced to biomachines in the factory, farm and laboratory. Dairy, eggs and meat, fur, suede, wool, leather are the end products of torture, confinement and murder. I abjure their use out of reverence for all innocent life. Wildlifes' right to live in peace in their natural environment without this civilization's interference can no longer be denied. Must no longer be denied. To make a civilization worthy of the word civilized the cruelty must end, starting within or own lives. Reject the anthropocentric falsehood that maintains the oppressive hierarchy of mankind over the animals. It's time to set them free. Veganism is the essence of compassion and peaceful living. The animals are not ours to abuse or dominate. I abjure their use out of reverence for all innocent life.

hehehe. guess earth crisis can henceforth get filed under the same mental compartment as NSBM in terms of 'they sound kinda cool but let's studiously ignore the politics'

never even thought about the implications of the name before, funnily enough.

Kai

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #12 on: 12 Jan 2008, 17:42 »

but Earth Crisis never sounded kind of cool

ever
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but the music sucks because the keyboards don't have the cold/mechanical sound they had but a wannabe techno sound that it's pathetic for Rammstein standars.

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #13 on: 12 Jan 2008, 18:09 »

Stop the violence against plant life!  Our vegtable brothers and sisters have been oppressed too long.  They're lives are as precious as our own and the systematic killing to fill your empty stomachs only empties your heart and soul.

Stop the violence.  Eat dirt instead.

I guess this is funny if you ignore the fact that plants can't feel pain and aren't reasonably aware?
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Jackie Blue

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #14 on: 12 Jan 2008, 19:10 »

Bullshit, plants are aware.  I have personally spoken to a tree spirit.  His name was Bert.  He was very sad.

And just because I was on acid at the time doesn't mean it wasn't real!
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E. Spaceman

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #15 on: 12 Jan 2008, 20:46 »

if there is one thing i hate more than hippies, it has to be the environment.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #16 on: 12 Jan 2008, 20:51 »

Nature has all sorts of stuff that could kill you. Fire. Wolves. AIDS. The wind. Your own appendix. If you have to choose between appeasement and mastery, choose mastery.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #17 on: 13 Jan 2008, 14:57 »

Holy shit they're still around.

Nah, they split a while ago. Karl Beuchner resurrected Path Of Resistance afterwards, not sure if they're still active either but they played London a year or two back. I've never heard about them eating meat and drinking though, there might have been rumours but that's definitely not common knowledge. People should still feel silly about having an Earth Crisis tattoo though, that band had maybe one or two decent songs and Firestorm sounded far better when Reversal Of Man ripped it off for Get The Kid With The Sideburns after they got into a fight with Earth Crisis anyway. Not to mention all the nonsense they talked. Chokehold were always far better at vegan straight edge metalcore.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #18 on: 14 Jan 2008, 20:48 »

I guess this is funny if you ignore the fact that plants can't feel pain and aren't reasonably aware?

Now who's being consciousness-ist?
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ampersandwitch

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #19 on: 14 Jan 2008, 21:10 »

Animals can run away. What hope does a cabbage have?

Animals in factory farms being harvested also do not have the chance to run away, incidentally.

Also, who's to say plants can't feel pain or aren't reasonably aware.
They are aware enough to grow towards the sunlight.

Phototropism does not equal the comparably relateable and identifiable feeling of suffering.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #20 on: 14 Jan 2008, 21:18 »

Stop the violence against plant life!  Our vegtable brothers and sisters have been oppressed too long.  They're lives are as precious as our own and the systematic killing to fill your empty stomachs only empties your heart and soul.

Stop the violence.  Eat dirt instead.
No! What about all the little microbes and stuff that lives in dirt? We can't harm helpless microbes!
And don't even think about trying to separate them from the dirt, which is their habitat.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #21 on: 14 Jan 2008, 21:34 »

I never understood the idea of anti-veganism. 

I guess they can be a little obnoxious if you're trying to find a restaurant with one and you're a pathetic McDonald's addict or something.  Other than the far-end-of-the-bell-curve militant vegans, what exactly is the problem?  They use less resources and when most of our asses are in the hospital from all the greasy meat we've consumed our entire life (not to mention all the bullshit that's put into dairy products), they will be one less person taking up space in the O.R./E.R.
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KvP

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #22 on: 14 Jan 2008, 22:01 »

I just find veganism to be silly. Vegetarianism, that's fine, since it's grounded in fairly simple utilitarian ethics. Veganism seems to be more about some kind of nebulous "principle of the thing". There's no distinction made between killing an animal for its meat and harvesting its bodily secretions for consumption. Why am I not supposed to eat cheese even if I can be reasonably assured that such cheese wasn't procured through some grave inhuman torture? I've yet to hear an explanation that doesn't extend to an animal's right to be segregated from humans or right to be unused as though their "purpose" was otherwise (as championed by our fine friends in Earth Crisis above). I can agree upon the reasonability of not inflicting pain upon animals. I scoff at the idea of some sort of struggle for rights that goes beyond enforcement of that.

There's the whole health aspect of veganism that I'm ignoring, but I don't really care about that. Most vegans I know speak of their lifestyle as a moral imperative.
« Last Edit: 14 Jan 2008, 22:05 by Kid van Pervert »
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Jackie Blue

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #23 on: 14 Jan 2008, 22:08 »

what exactly is the problem?  They use less resources and when most of our asses are in the hospital from all the greasy meat we've consumed our entire life

You just answered your own question right there, hoss.  Vegetarians and vegans seem, on the whole, to be far more likely to unquestioningly accept any and all information about nutrition that is fed to them (pun intended) when the fact is, we actually know very very little for certain about nutrition and can't explain why some people can eat nothing but white rice their entire life and live to be 100 and in perfect physical shape despite the fact that they aren't getting any substantial amounts of vitamins or amino acids, nor why some people can eat steak two times a day (thrice on Sunday) and likewise live to be 100 and in perfect physical shape.
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PacoSees

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #24 on: 14 Jan 2008, 22:10 »

If animals want rights, they can fight me for them, like we Mexicans fought the Spaniards for ours and you white people fought your respective mother countries.

In the meantime, for every animal you intentionally don't eat, I'll eat four different animals.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #25 on: 14 Jan 2008, 22:30 »

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #26 on: 14 Jan 2008, 22:46 »

I woke from my daydream, discovered my nightmare was real,
At the altar of progress to gods of ambition we kneel,
Our database deities, they cannot save us,
Microchip miracles only enslave us.
The high priests of high finance claim that their actions are wise...
But our planet still dies. . .
It dies for the want of more people who care
'bout the poisons we pump in the seas and the air,
Yet blissfully ignorant, still unaware,
We strive for a future entwined with despair.
You say, "Why waste concern on the rivers and trees;
They belong to mankind to exploit as we please?"
Face up to the fact that mankind's a disease
Irrelevant microbes with colour T.V.s.
Tell me just what kind of fools would laugh and stare death in the face?
Only to worst kind of fools (like you and I: the human race).
If we laugh for long enough it could well be our epitaph,
Mother Earth will laugh the loudest
She will have the final laugh.
BUT WAIT--the time has come to realise,
BELIEVE--the truth our eyes will not disguise.
SPEAK OUT--to say, "It's no concern of mine,"
DECEIVED--is to be party to the crime.
We all toe the line and swallow the lies...
And our island dies!

Let computers dictate our emotions,
Determine the way we should feel.
Turn our backs to the future now our days are numbered,
And where will we run to when this world is plundered?
Your conscience a whisper drowned out when your avarice cries;
And humanity dies. . .

Without hot winds or tower blocks crashing,
No silver-lined mushroom clouds herald man's passing,
From the Garden of Eden, into death everlasting,
Such a high price to pay for what we took without asking.
Stupidity's legacy is passed down the years,
As our knowledge increases dispelling the fears
That the ghosts of the past may again reappear
As the dawn of the silent apocalypse nears.

Tell me just what kind of fools would laugh and stare death in the face?
Only the worst kind of fools (like you and I: the human race).
If we laugh for long enough it could well be our epitaph,
Mother Earth will laugh the loudest
She will have the final laugh.

(The advent of insanity, no future for humanity.
You pander to your vanity, it blinds you to reality.
In temples of indifference we hail the gods of ignorance,
And sacrifice our final chance, behold the death of innocence.)

BUT WAIT--the end is near so we must choose,
BELIEVE--that we have everything to lose.
SPEAK OUT--if empty words are all we're worth,
DECEIVED--it is the end for Mother Earth.

We all toe the line and swallow the lies...
and our island dies.

If we think the world is our oyster we'll surely choke on the pearl,
It is ours for a while to respect not defile, but minds drunk with power still whirl.
The lands we dispute are not ours to pollute, neither the air that we breathe,
But how will we ever see reason when we can't see the wood for the trees.

Now we hold the future in the palm of our hand
Place your faith in 'Rainbow Warriors' not castles of sand,
The hourglass is empty time is slipping away
So prepare your excuses for the Judgement Day.

Court is now in session, Mother Nature presides,
The jury are our children; whose futures we've denied.
The evidence conclusive, we have no alibi,
The victim was our planet, the verdict: MATRICIDE! MATRICIDE! MATRICIDE!

BUT WAIT--the time has come to realise,
BELIEVE--the truth our eyes will not disguise.
SPEAK OUT--to say, "It's no concern of mine,"
DECEIVED--is to be party to the crime.
BUT WAIT--the end is near so we must choose,
BELIEVE--that we have everything to lose.
SPEAK OUT--if empty words are all we're worth,
DECEIVED--it is the end for Mother Earth.


and


Well we know what makes the flowers grow - but we don't know why
And we all have the knowledge of DNA - but we still die
We perch so thin and fragile here upon the land
And the earth that moves beneath us, we don't understand
So we rush towards the Judgement Day, when She reclaims
A toast to the Luddite martyrs then, who died in vain
Down at the lab they're working still, finishing off
How do we tell the people in the white coats
Enough is enough?
Chorus:
Hey, hey I listen to you pray as if some help will come
Hey, hey She will dance on our graves when we are dead and gone
You and I we made no suicide pact - we didn't want to die
But we watch the wall, little darling, while the chemical trucks go by
This desperate imitation, now, of innocence
Those last few days at Jonestown ain't got nothing on this
Chorus:
Hey, hey I listen to you pray as if some help will come
Hey, hey She will dance on our graves when we are dead and gone
Now beneath the fitted carpets, beyond the padded cells
Within these crimes of passion, the naked truth She dwells
And this fury's just a part and this thunder's just a part
Desire is just a part - the cracking ice, the splitting rock
Chorus:
Hey, hey I listen to you pray as if some help will come
Hey, hey She will dance on our graves when we are dead and gone
Hey, hey to the suicide day, the blind man blunders on
Hey, hey She will dance on our graves when we are dead and gone
As children learn about the world, we built that wall of sand
Along the beach we laboured hard with our bare hands
We worked until the sun went down beneath the waves
And the tide came rolling splashing in, washed the wall away
How do we tell the people in the white coats
Enough is enough? 

 ourposefully
(Skyclad - Our Dying Island and New Model Army - White Coats
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Jackie Blue

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #27 on: 14 Jan 2008, 22:50 »

And here I was all thinking you were going to quote some Skinny Puppy.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #28 on: 14 Jan 2008, 22:53 »

Hey man, "Dogshit" contains some profound truths.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #29 on: 14 Jan 2008, 23:16 »

nor why some people can eat steak two times a day (thrice on Sunday) and likewise live to be 100 and in perfect physical shape.

Nor do we know why some people still deny the almost irrefutable correlation between a diet heavy in red meat and heart disease.
The world sure is full of mystery, huh?

There's the whole health aspect of veganism that I'm ignoring, but I don't really care about that. Most vegans I know speak of their lifestyle as a moral imperative.

If you disagree with factory farming, it would make sense to not reap the benefits either way.  A moral imperative against the mistreatment of animals makes perfect sense to me, and the methods by which both mainstream dairy and egg products are extracted from their sources tend to border on animal cruelty.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #30 on: 14 Jan 2008, 23:22 »

That still doesn't explain why I shouldn't consume the "organic" products that are supposed to be acquired outside the factory farming system.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #31 on: 14 Jan 2008, 23:27 »

FDA labels like "organic" and "free range" are technical terms.  Organic food only applies to whether or not they were genetically modified or given routine antibiotics or hormones.  Free range means that the animal gets to see daylight.  It is not specified how often.  These two terms even in tandem do not really suggest to me a humanely raised food object.
Sometimes the labels lie.  Horizon, I know, has come under fire for their "organic" milk which is apparently nothing of the sort.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #32 on: 14 Jan 2008, 23:39 »

Nor do we know why some people still deny the almost irrefutable correlation between a diet heavy in red meat and heart disease.

As much as I would be totally gay for an argument about the FDA, the AMA and the dubious nature of everything that people claim we "know" about food and the human body's workings in general this is the Music Forum and oh, also, I am seriously not gay for having that discussion because it's like talking to an atheist, ie roughly as much fun as repeatedly flinging oneself into piles of dogshit.

(But I will say this: I don't "deny" your reality, I "accept" different ones.  There is more in Heaven and Earth than is dreamt of in your science, etc.)
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #33 on: 14 Jan 2008, 23:48 »

I would be totally gay for your post as well (which I noticed, by the way, is appropriately music themed, considering this is the Music Talk forum), but unfortunately, I find dismissive ad hominem arguments to be infantile and irritating.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #34 on: 14 Jan 2008, 23:48 »

While it's true that there's no real sort of regulation or standardization for organic products, and the "organic" label is thrown around more as a means of justifying higher prices than anything else, there have to be ways to research a company's policy in regard to its treatment of its animals. The relevant question would be, if it were the case that if you were to come across humanely acquired products, would you feel justified in consuming them? If not, there have to be other premises to the vegan argument needed to justify it.

We're sort of getting off-topic in that the context of discussion is no longer centered on Earth Crisis, but it's kind of sort of addressing the merits of Earth Crisis' cause.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #35 on: 14 Jan 2008, 23:55 »

Buy local, kids.

That's the best way to do it.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #36 on: 15 Jan 2008, 00:07 »

I find dismissive ad hominem arguments to be infantile and irritating.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #37 on: 15 Jan 2008, 05:53 »

While it's true that there's no real sort of regulation or standardization for organic products, and the "organic" label is thrown around more as a means of justifying higher prices than anything else, there have to be ways to research a company's policy in regard to its treatment of its animals. The relevant question would be, if it were the case that if you were to come across humanely acquired products, would you feel justified in consuming them? If not, there have to be other premises to the vegan argument needed to justify it.

We're sort of getting off-topic in that the context of discussion is no longer centered on Earth Crisis, but it's kind of sort of addressing the merits of Earth Crisis' cause.

You aren't really, you're talking about veganism in general when Earth Crisis were a hardline band and conflating veganism as a whole with a really narrow offshoot of sXe is way off the mark. Philosophically Earth Crisis et al have a completely different standpoint to a lot of other people who happen to also call themselves vegan. In any case, Good Clean Fun (who're vegan) did a funnier job of attacking hardline years ago with In Defense Of All Life:

Peaceful protest doesn't get the job done
So I wake up for the rally grab my soy milk and my gun
Breakfast with the family get the grub to see what`s up
Then I saw my sister had milk in her cup
I jumped out of my chair and sprayed her with my mace
I yelled 'vegan power' and I kicked her in the face
Dad was bugging, he started to run
But he`s a meat eater so I pulled out my gun
Shot him in the back, then I shot his wife
That`s how it`s got to be in defense of all life

Then again, going after hardliners is very much like shooting fish in a barrel. For context, the song's largely ripping the piss out of No One Is Innocent by the infamous Vegan Reich (entertainingly enough, one of the guys who drummed for this band is now in Fall Out Boy):

No one is innocent we all commit crimes, if you're not guilty in their eyes, you're guilty in mine. There are only two sides and a line that divides, if you stand in the middle you're not on my side. No such thing as an innocent passerby you're the enemy if you turn a blind eye. Not taking a stand while others die complicity your crime you will be tried. To bad if that's cold there's not time to be nice ain't playing a game it's a war which we fight. In defense of earth's future and all forms of life, against those in the way all is justified. And for what I believe I'm willing to die to free those enslaved I'll take a life. Won't shed a tear, I know I am right, and if I am caught, I'll pay the price… cos there's no excuse for letting things slide, in the actions of others or in your own life. If you don't stand firm on the side of right you're nothing but a waste of life so you'd better choose a fucking side and not be sitting in the middle when the bullets start to fly. If you don't make a choice it could mean your life for if you're not on my side you're a target in my eyes.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #38 on: 15 Jan 2008, 05:57 »

Guys this is the music forum.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #39 on: 15 Jan 2008, 08:33 »


You just answered your own question right there, hoss.  Vegetarians and vegans seem, on the whole, to be far more likely to unquestioningly accept any and all information about nutrition that is fed to them (pun intended) when the fact is, we actually know very very little for certain about nutrition and can't explain why some people can eat nothing but white rice their entire life and live to be 100 and in perfect physical shape despite the fact that they aren't getting any substantial amounts of vitamins or amino acids, nor why some people can eat steak two times a day (thrice on Sunday) and likewise live to be 100 and in perfect physical shape.


My own statement didn't really answer my question, though, regarding a majority's stance of anti-veganism.  And I've yet to read anything that answers it other than most people seem to have a neanderthalic or, perhaps far worse even, biblical stance on consumption and that if it's there and we can, than we should eat it.  I'm hardly vegan, nor am I even vegetarian.  I have, however, pretty much cut meat out of my life entirely and honestly eat healthier and feel healthier than I ever have in the 15+ years that I have pretty much been able to make my own choices regarding what I put in my body.

PS, the Fall Out Boy drummer/Vegan Reich member apparently used to (or still does) subscribe to a theory of hardline veganism that basically condemns all modern society and believes that we should live in the woods with barely any shelter.  To make the whole thing even more ridiculous, he still sells the TShirts that bare this ethos' namesake and wears them during Fall Out Boy photoshoots.  Talk about shooting fish in a barrel.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #40 on: 15 Jan 2008, 08:51 »

Guys this is the music forum.

MUSIC IS MURDER
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #41 on: 15 Jan 2008, 12:09 »

I just find veganism to be silly. Vegetarianism, that's fine, since it's grounded in fairly simple utilitarian ethics.

This seems to be the wrong way round to me. I can understand veganism, because it is opposed to all forms of exploitation of animals. Vegetarianism, though, finds it perfectly acceptable to force animals to permanently lactate so we can drink their milk? That's pretty cruel. As for anti-cruelty-to-animals meat-eaters, isn't killing an animal cruelty just as much as hurting it is? Veganism seems like the only internally coherent attitude to me.

I still eat meat.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #42 on: 15 Jan 2008, 12:12 »

no, see, we have to kill some of them so that they don't overpopulate and die

they're coming right for us!

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #43 on: 15 Jan 2008, 12:34 »

This seems to be the wrong way round to me. I can understand veganism, because it is opposed to all forms of exploitation of animals. Vegetarianism, though, finds it perfectly acceptable to force animals to permanently lactate so we can drink their milk?

Not to mention continuing to kill them to use their hides for belts, shoes, car seats, or their bones and organs for toothpaste, beauty products, etc.  A vegetarian that is so for ethical reasons would be unfortunately hypocritical.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #44 on: 15 Jan 2008, 12:41 »

if it's there and we can, than we should eat it.

Well, we are omnivores.

So long as humans continue to be the way we are, the unfortunate truth is that exploitation of the planet - animals included - is pretty much necessary.  We've put ourselves on a path with little other choice.  How many things died for my Internet connection?

Don't worry, soon we'll have nano-assemblers and it won't really matter.

Pun not intended.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #45 on: 15 Jan 2008, 12:46 »

Guys I think we could still turn this into a constructive Music Thread. Let's write a song about eating! Maybe a song about meat! I do not know.


I'll start:

There once was a boy
Who didn't eat meat
He smelled kind of funny
But he sure had that Beat

*catchy 4-bar drum solo*
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #46 on: 15 Jan 2008, 12:51 »

mountain lions have claws; we have big brains.

we use what random mutation has given us.

FUCKING DEAL WITH IT
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #47 on: 15 Jan 2008, 12:52 »

Mang you are totally killing the groove.
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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #48 on: 15 Jan 2008, 12:54 »

sorry, i have no rhythm. whenever i am asked to improv music i just start yelling about evolution and try to sneak away when no one's looking.
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Also I would like to point out that the combination of Sailor Moon and faux-Kerouac / Sonic Youth spelling is perhaps the purest distillation of what this forum is that we have yet been presented with.

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Re: Folk Music and the Environment
« Reply #49 on: 15 Jan 2008, 13:01 »

I don't know, I could see those being cookie-monster metal lyrics:

MOUNTAIN LIONS HAVE CLAWS
HUMANS HAVE BRAINS
WE USE WHAT EVOLUTION GAVE US

SO GO EAT MEAT
IT'S A TASTY TREAT
AND ONLY JESUS CHRIST CAN SAVE US

RRRAAAAAAGHHGGDSDJADKSGAASAAGFDSGAFD
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