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[Johnny C]

What's the deal with Spoon? I've given them a go and I found them really dull, and then I gave them another go because I thought I must be missing something, and I still found them really dull. Why do people like them so much?

It's pertinent to ask which albums you've given a listen to.

[Inlander]

I haven't listened to any particular albums, only songs. We have a music-video programme here called Rage which airs in the wee small hours, and every Friday night they get a touring band to guest-programme it. After all the band's chosen videos are played, then the band's own videos are played, so I saw a lot of their songs that way. That would have been a couple of years ago. Then yesterday at the Big Day Out, a music festival, I saw them play a few songs. Not being very familiar with the band I don't know what any of the songs were called or from what album(s) they came, but I was not impressed by any of them.

[C Patrick Carolan]

I really don't 'get' either Ween or MIA.

If anyone can shed some light...

[Jackie Blue]

Ween are technically very talented musicians who fuck around with genre conventions in ways that are sometimes amusing and sometimes unexpectedly poignant but are generally always well-done.  Their last few albums have been significantly less enjoyable to me than their first five or so, however.

Godweensatan is seriously a masterpiece.

[De_El]

I still can't get past the first song on that album. White Pepper is really good and easy to get into, though.

[Johnny C]

I haven't listened to any particular albums, only songs. We have a music-video programme here called Rage which airs in the wee small hours, and every Friday night they get a touring band to guest-programme it.

Try giving Gimme Fiction a listen in its entirety.

[Jackie Blue]

I still can't get past the first song on that album. White Pepper is really good and easy to get into, though.

Well, different strokes and all that.  I don't like White Pepper much and love "You Fucked Up".

[McTaggart]

What the fuck, man.  Vampire Weekend.

I really like what I've heard from them. I like the way their sound feels like it draws from different places to a lot of other band I'm hearing. I like the way they sound like they're having fun. Mostly I think I just like fun, catchy pop songs.

[Jackie Blue]

I like fun, catchy pop songs too (I love the Pipettes) but seriously, man.  Vampire Weekend don't even sound like they're trying.

[Christophe]

What's the deal with The Blood Brothers? Terrible motherfucker of a band, and yet Guy Picciotto produced their last album.

[De_El]

What the fuck, man.  Vampire Weekend.
Pitchfork gave the album an 8.8 today.

Clell Tickle probably had something to do with it.\

[Alex C]

I love The Mollusk  too much to make anything remotely resembling an unbiased defense of Ween. Some of the songs on that one are like if someone took prog and removed all the pretension and suck. Plus, it's pretty concise for a Ween album. Also, Ocean Man makes me inexplicably happy in the most uncomplicated way possible, which counts for a lot.

[Jackie Blue]

I'll say that The Mollusk is the Ween album I've listened to the least out of everything up to and including it, but that I do recall loving it the last time I had a copy (which was in the neighborhood of 10 years ago).

Still, there's just something about all the albums before that that are just timelessly awesome.  I think The Mollusk can be seen as the point at which Ween began to at least flirt with the idea of being a little bit serious, though it's nowhere near as straightforward as, say, Quebec (my least favourite of theirs).

I do really love the Friends EP in all its gay glory.

[pinkpiche]

Radiohead got famous for writing downbeat but very catchy rock songs. They then went on to make sure that every album was different enough from their last that they would be seen to be progressing but also similar enough in its approach that their fans would not be disappointed by something totally unfamiliar. They are a massive stadium rock band who have a critical reputation good enough to mean nobody would feel embarrassed about liking something with such mass appeal, as is sometimes the case for some individuals. They appear not to be dicks in interviews which also helps, one of them even volunteers for the Samaritans (I have no idea why I know) which makes him sound like a pretty nice guy. Their liberal politics appear well-meaning and genuine but also not very radical so are unlikely to upset many people.

I think that's the thing with Radiohead, there's nothing there to put people off and they write songs with a mass appeal, often very anthemic. Even people like me who don't really care for their music usually don't dislike them as such. My mum had Amnesiac and when she stuck it on it would just fade into the background, inoffensively.

So Kid A and Amnesiac were just style variations on Karma Police? I think not.

Btw. Dean Ween just might be the most underappreciated talented guitarist out there.

[a pack of wolves]

No, but they didn't sound to me like records I was completely surprised that the band who had written Karma Police would make. The Argument isn't just a variation on Repeater but it makes sense to me that the band that wrote one eventually ended up making the other, it's a progression.

What's the deal with The Blood Brothers? Terrible motherfucker of a band, and yet Guy Picciotto produced their last album.

They started out playing fairly straightforward hardcore and then added more and more different influences to their sound until there wasn't much hardcore left in it. I think it makes sense that Guy Picciotto would have an interest in a band like that. The last couple of albums might have been pretty uninteresting but Burn, Piano Island, Burn was fantastic, taking that GSL/31g kind of approach to hardcore and then making a catchy pop record out of it. March On Electric Children (released, unsurprisingly, by 31g) was a really great record as well.

[pinkpiche]

No, but they didn't sound to me like records I was completely surprised that the band who had written Karma Police would make. The Argument isn't just a variation on Repeater but it makes sense to me that the band that wrote one eventually ended up making the other, it's a progression.

Well yeah, but Fugazi's progression isn't nearly as recognizable as Radiohead's.
I think it's tough to say anything about it now about 10 years later.

[Tom]

Whats the deal with Battles?

[Inlander]

What's the deal with John Stanier?

[David_Dovey]

Really? I was always under the impression that John Bonham visited Stanier in a dream and anointed Stanier his successor.

The deal with Battles is that they make incredibly weird and off-the-wall music that somehow is still incredibly danceable. (+John Stanier)

[Inlander]

Dammit tommy, you were supposed to answer "He's the drummer for Battles". Then I'd ask "What's the deal with Battles?" and you'd reply "John Stanier is the drummer for Battles", and I'd ask "What's the deal with John Stanier?", and so forth, and thus we'd cripple the thread with an horrific but momentarily hilarious feed-back loop.

[carrotosaurus]

I was looking for a link to that Onion article "Yngwie Malmsteen officially changes middle name to "Fucking"" but it's not out there

Bottom of the page.

[Alex C]

Still, there's just something about all the albums before that that are just timelessly awesome.  I think The Mollusk can be seen as the point at which Ween began to at least flirt with the idea of being a little bit serious, though it's nowhere near as straightforward as, say, Quebec (my least favourite of theirs).

Yeah, I can get behind all of those sentiments. I'll put it this way: If I'm listening to Ween at home on my PC or on my ancient iriver I end up listening to a grab bag patched together from some of the earlier albums you're mentioning. But a decade ago (Good god, is it that long now?!) when I was still dragging around a discman and a fistfull of cds everywhere it was The Mollusk that made the cut. Relative to their other albums it's just more self-contained, and it feels more complete to me whereas their other albums (especially the first two) are sprawling and held together mostly by the homebrewed aesthetic and sheer balls to the wall silliness. It's great stuff, but I don't get in the mood for The Pod  like I do for The Mollusk.

Wait, shit, did I blow a whole paragraph just to basically say "I find it more accessible"?

[KvP]

I was looking for a link to that Onion article "Yngwie Malmsteen officially changes middle name to "Fucking"" but it's not out there

Bottom of the page.

It links to a picture and more links, no text.

[psyne]

I'll bite on a few of these.

Of Montreal: Not my favorite band, but the attraction there is sort of a fun glam thing. They're fun, extravagant, upbeat, outlandish. I think too much of them gets obnoxious, and some of their songs are mediocre, but overall I think they're pretty fun and dancey, and the lyrics are amusingly surreal sometimes. If you haven't heard it, check out The Party's Crashing Us - that's the first song I ever heard by them, and one of my favorites. It's a pretty good litmus for whether you'll ever like them or not.

Pavement: People have mostly said why they're so well known/highly regarded, I'll say my own experience getting into them, since I didn't "get it" at first either. The first time I checked them out I was unimpressed (listened to the first few tracks of Slanted and Enchanted then put it back). I gave them another shot a couple years later and listened to Terror Twilight and liked it better, but I wasn't immediately sold. Then they grew on me like crazy. Every time I listen to them I notice another line or riff that I really like, and my favorite song changes. So for me getting into them was really slow and took a lot of repeats, but now they're one of my favorite bands.
I also agree with Johnny C on what basically makes them good, and Crooked Rain is also my favorite.

Spoon: Definitely check out Gimme Fiction. Amazing album. They're an incredibly talented band. Some of their songs can come off boring at first, they're mostly pretty mellow, but give GF a good listen. I love every song on it.


I don't get the Blood Brothers either. I was hearing about them a lot a few years back, then when I listened to them I felt like my ears were going to bleed. And I LIKE some hardcore and punk.

[Inlander]

Is Gimme Fiction in the Mediafire thread somewhere? Because I'm not gonna shell out good money just on spec, when my every experience with the band has been negative.

For the record, I don't mind mellow music, just dull music.

[psyne]

Is Gimme Fiction in the Mediafire thread somewhere? Because I'm not gonna shell out good money just on spec, when my every experience with the band has been negative.

For the record, I don't mind mellow music, just dull music.

Just did a search, I don't think it is. I'll upload it and post there.


Edit: Done! Check it out.

[Uber Ritter]

Man, I totally didn't think of the Seinfeld thing.  And now it's been done to death, probably.  Oh well.

So what's the deal with the Decembrists?  I liked the second track on The Crane Wife because it reminded me of an indie-rock Yes, but generally the Decembrists have consistently failed to blow me away.

[Jackie Blue]

The Decemberists are the band for people who are too cool for Death Cab For Cutie but not cool enough for Arcade Fire.

[squawk]

mariner's revenge song

[Valrus]

The Decembrists were a Russian revolutionary group, which is pretty cool, but I suspect you meant the Decemberists. Probably I have already caused you to ignore anything I'll say by being a pedantic ass, but regardless: The Decemberists write excellent, or at least highly regarded, lyrics and set them to surprisingly catchy melodies. Much is made of their tendency to use big words, which sort of misses the point: that they tell stories well, often conveying a lot of background or emotional heft with a fairly concise lyric. They put on an absolutely incredible and fun live show. They play many, many instruments, but they don't overuse them or show off; instead, they use them sparingly and, usually, effectively to augment what might otherwise be a conventionally arranged song. If you liked "The Island" because it was more proggy, The Decemberists may not be for you; they are first and foremost a verse-verse-chorus-verse pop band, but hopefully I've given some kind of idea why other people like them.

Re Spoon: Am I totally off base in thinking Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga is way better than Gimme Fiction? Everyone's creaming their pants in here over the latter, but I owned it for months and didn't give a shit about Spoon until I picked up Ga^5.

And re Pavement: Advice regarding a second album for someone who can't get into Slanted and Enchanted, please?

[Jackie Blue]

Disliking Slanted and Enchanted really doesn't have much effect on whether you will like their other albums.  Crooked Rain Crooked Rain is a far more pop affair with some genuine rock epic playing.

Some may consider it heresy, but I find Slanted and Enchanted to be mostly boring and after a few years it gets a bit old.

[squawk]

Am I totally off base in thinking Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga is way better than Gimme Fiction?

Hells no.

[Ishotdanieljohnston]

Now I personally adore the new Silver Mt. Zion- hence the Effrim avator- but one of my friends who's also a fan of their music gave every aspect of the new album a ten, except the vocls which he gave a zero. I don't know how to explain to him why they are great vocals and make it such a powerful album, any help?


Also, Harry, I too had alot of trouble getting into Spoon, but one day it clicked that it's catchy, fun and yet original music which is also layered and full of interesting ideas. I'm seeing them tomorrow night actually.

[Jackie Blue]

How are the vocals on the new Silver Mt. Zion any different from the vocals on their last two albums, except for being more forceful and less whiny?

That is truly confusing.

[PECOAE]

Disliking Slanted and Enchanted really doesn't have much effect on whether you will like their other albums.  Crooked Rain Crooked Rain is a far more pop affair with some genuine rock epic playing.

Some may consider it heresy, but I find Slanted and Enchanted to be mostly boring and after a few years it gets a bit old.

trigger cut/wounded kite at :17 is the reason why i like slanted and enchanted.

[Ishotdanieljohnston]

How are the vocals on the new Silver Mt. Zion any different from the vocals on their last two albums, except for being more forceful and less whiny?

That is truly confusing.

Yeah I know, but he just hates them here. I think he may also only be familiar with their instrumental stuff.

[Jackie Blue]

I am really glad this forum has not yet had the "OMG Silver Mt. Zion sold out by letting 20 seconds of a song be used in a commercial for LOST Efrim is such a hypocrite" explosion I've seen on other boards.

[Johnny C]

I had a conversation about this with my drummer after practice tonight - licensing in general, I mean. My feelings are that my opinion of a band is hardly ever lowered if they license out a song, and that if my opinion of the band were to be lowered it would be because they had their song in a Wal-Mart commercial. However, I feel like I respect a band more if they say, "No, but I can write you a song for your ad." That way the song isn't cheapened and the artist basically just gets to make a buck on commission more than anything else.

[KvP]

Henry Rollins had a blog post about licensing awhile back. Can't seem to find it through a lazy google search, but his argument was roughly this,

A. Iggy Pop licensed "Lust For Life" out to that cruiseline.
B. "Lust For Life" is an awesome song.
C. Iggy Pop got money for this licensing.
______
dot dot dot Who the fuck cares about licensing.

The guy from Of Montreal had a big huge defensive rant about licensing posted in... Pitchfork, I think? A few months ago. He sounded totally guilty.

[Alex C]

See, if I was in a major label band and had the opportunity to make money off licensing, I'd pass on the feeling guilty and acting defensive shit and skip to the part where I show up on TRL and get booed after giving my fans the finger and ranting about how nobody seems to mind hearing the song for free when they're downloading it off teh internets.

[psyne]

Yeah, licensing isn't that big a deal to me. I can see the point about Wal-mart, I might take issue if it was a company I really have no respect for. But in general, why not? When those Iggy Pop cruise line commercials were on, I'd always get up and dance, I loved it. And if I ever hear a lesser known band in advertisements, I get excited for them because that means they're getting more recognition and basically paid promotion.

[Nodaisho]

Yeah... I think I would probably go for the policy that I would only license for products/companies that I liked.

And what was the title of the Iggy pop song? I think I might remember that, but I can't remember the lyrics to look it up.

[Christophe]

A Pack of Wolves: Thanks for your commentary on The Blood Brothers. Often times when trying to get into their music, the music itself is pretty good- it's just the vocals that really, really, fuck it up for me. Like, covering a Ferrero Rocher in shit bad. But that's just me.

Pavement advice: For a period of time, I refused to listen to the rest of Slanted/Enchanted based solely on Summer Babe. I hated the hell out of that song. Now, I don't mind it, and the album proper has its moments, but I have yet to actually listen to it the whole way.

As far as second albums, I would second Crooked Rain Crooked Rain, but if you're feeling adventurous, you could try out their inscrutablexperimental chock-full of songs Wowee Zowee, or the polished pop of Brighten the Corners. As far as actual recommendable songs go, Wowee Zowee has Grounded, Rattled By The Rush, Grave Architecture, and Blackout (among others), while BtC has Stereo, Shady Lane, Embassy Row, and Starlings of the Slipstream- arguably Pavement's best pop or rock songs.

To continue the vicious cycle, What's the deal with Tapes 'n Tapes? I bought this album expecting it to be really good, and it came out as completely unimpressive. Was it all Clell Tickle's marketing finesse that got this band where it went, or is there something that I'm missing? In fact, let's do a twofer- What's the deal with Clap Your Hands Say Yeah?

[Johnny C]

I personally would not license a song to advertise a product or brand. Now, I'd be happy to write you a new one, but I would not license an existing song. There's an alternative that won't cheapen my work.

[Jackie Blue]

Do you really think that using literally 20 instrumental seconds of a song in a trailer for a season of a TV show counts as "advertising a product"?  I highly doubt that anybody decided "Hey, those 20 seconds of music are so cool, I think I'll watch that show now!"  That counts more as "soundtrack" than "advertising" in my book.

And I think it's a great thing that, for example, Mogwai have let so many of their songs be used in so many soundtracks.  Better them than some shitty band, right?

[Alex C]

See, I am totally fine with what you're saying Johnny C, since that's your work and your decision. Now, if you were to go completely unhinged and shit all over another talented and otherwise forthright artist using that freedom, that's when I'd start calling it bullshit.

[Johnny C]

And I think it's a great thing that, for example, Mogwai have let so many of their songs be used in so many soundtracks.  Better them than some shitty band, right?

A film or TV soundtrack is a different thing from selling Motorola phones or a Celica.

Once again, I don't think any less of bands that do this. I personally wouldn't.

[onewheelwizzard]

What's the deal with free jazz?

[IronOxide]

Free Jazz emerged as kind of a reaction to all of the commercialization that was occurring in the Jazz scene of the 1950s. People got kind of sick of dealing with all of the generic Jazz crap out there (like many groups are doing with rock more recently) and created a style of music that doesn't have as many rules and doesn't have to be bludgeoned down into the least common denomination. They, through eliminating some of the conventions of the music, "freed" it, and restored the sense of innovation in the Jazz scene of the 1950s.

[dalconnsuch]

in response to the title of this discussion


"whats the deal with AIR LINE FOOD!?"