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the beatles

37 (44.6%)

led zeppelin

12 (14.5%)

Rush

7 (8.4%)

tool

8 (9.6%)

pink floyd

19 (22.9%)

Total Members Voted: 56

[KharBevNor]

I understand what you ar saying but I disagree with the notion that in order to be a real fan of music you should look like the archetypal sort of person that enjoys that music.

EH UH that's not what I said Tommy. That's not what I said at all. Nor did I say you've got to call yourself names to be involved in something, though maybe its important.

Also, if you pick another picture of Ian Mackaye:



Edit: addressing an earlier hanging point, I wasn't talking about Doom in its entirety, more in combination with the other two. For example, I know people who, for example, dress more like punks then metalheads, might even say they hate metal, often smoke a lot of pot and pretty much exclusively listen to things like Iron Monkey, Eyehategod, Weedeater, The Melvins, Electric Wizard, Kyuss, Bongzilla and maybe, in fact, bands like Boris, Isis and Pelican, not all of whom I would say were metal, though they all could be grouped together. Then again, maybe its more accurate to say that these guys are a little splinter metal subculture. I dunno. I'm not a sociologist, I just call 'em how I see 'em.

[a pack of wolves]

You basically did say you needed to call yourself something to be meaningfully involved with this:

If you're not a metalhead, you don't get to decide what metal is. If you're not a goth, you can't delineate the boundaries of goth. If you're not a punk, then your opinions on what is and isn't punk are probably worthless, and so on.

I'm not an emo (although some of my friends would disagree on this). I still say I can make a contribution to what is and isn't emo.

Ah right, I get you now with the doom thing. I listen to most of those bands myself and know a lot of guys that play in bands heavily influenced by them and yes, not really what you'd think of as metalheads. It is sort of a splinter thing isn't it, a lot of people who're into that stuff seem to come from both punk and metal backgrounds and generally have a lot of love for both but they're starting to carve out something separate from either. Rather like those bands that call themselves either metalcore or death metal with the funny hair have done, they seem to exist in a totally separate scene to hardcore or metal these days.

[MadassAlex]

I was talking more about when you get multiple completely rhythmically different parts going on, so I guess that isn't a harmony, though now I am going to have to listen to A Matter of Life and Death again, I am wondering whether they actually use three different guitar parts, or just have two on rhythm.

Time signatures and tempos, then. Alterations in both are common in all technical and progressive music, not just classical.

Ah right, I get you now with the doom thing. I listen to most of those bands myself and know a lot of guys that play in bands heavily influenced by them and yes, not really what you'd think of as metalheads. It is sort of a splinter thing isn't it, a lot of people who're into that stuff seem to come from both punk and metal backgrounds and generally have a lot of love for both but they're starting to carve out something separate from either. Rather like those bands that call themselves either metalcore or death metal with the funny hair have done, they seem to exist in a totally separate scene to hardcore or metal these days.

It's like post rock if post rock wasn't completely inhabited by huge pussies.

[2HourHiatus]

On a side note: I love how this thread has turned into a giant debate on a bunch of different music subjects. It's been really interesting to read. *ahem* sorry, carry-on

[Jackie Blue]

I'm not a goth, but I listen to lots of goth music.  I'm not a punk, but I listen to lots of older punk bands.  I'm not an indie rocker, but I listen to indie rock.  I'm not a psyche rocker, but I listen to lots of psyche rock.  I'm not a rivethead, but I listen to industrial.  I play in a band that combines elements of space rock, drone, metal, psychedelic, garage rock, math rock, jazz and post-rock.  So what do I get to delineate?  Since I'm not a member of any specific subculture, does that mean I can't speak about any of them, despite that I probably listen to more actual bands from those subcultures than many people who would claim to be members of them?

[Thrillho]

what is your fave of my favorite mainstream bands?

I...don't care?

i ... don't care if you don't care, its just for fun, relax woman, the world will still be indie-ruled by the end of the day no matter what th eresponse is here

'Relax woman'? Congrats, you've now made a false assumption and made yourself look sexist. Good job.

As for indie ruling the world, that's funny, because the fact that most indie musicians make about $10 a week and (until recently) four labels controlled almost all of the money exchanged in the music world suggests otherwise to me...

[jeph]

I guess my favorite "mainstream" band would probably be Radiohead.

I'M SO AVANT GARDAY

[amok]

So what do I get to delineate?

My Chemical Romance.

[Thrillho]

I guess my favorite "mainstream" band would probably be Radiohead.

I'M SO AVANT GARDAY

ISN'T AN AVANT ONE OF THOSE GUYS WHO'S RETARDED BUT GOOD AT SOMETHING?

[ledhendrix]

If the only people that can contribute to a genre (we'll take punk as an example here because it has already been mentioned)  and understand it fully are those that call themselves punks then who gets to decide what a punk is and what a punk isn't. How does one qualify to be a punk, if i decide to call myself a punk now and someone argues and tells me i am not a punk what right do they have to say that i am not. Is it because they are punk? If so who is it that gets to decide that they get to fit into this group.
 
 I agree that their are circumstances where this would be obvious ( Your granny and grandpa claiming to be punk) but i still think that people get a bit to worked up about the whole "scene" that seems to come with music. Most people have a wide and varied music taste but there seems to be this elite group of people that think it is there "right" to define there genre. It is almost like self electing yourself as the leader of the country. Its just crap i can't be arsed with this any more i think i've gone a bit of the point but anyway just my thoughts on the matter.

[Jackie Blue]

Mogwai call themselves a punk rock band.

/tangent

[KharBevNor]

The formation of subcultures is an organic process, going through a number of stages, such as perhaps:

1) Influencing
2) Prototyping
3) Inauguration
4) Identification
5) Culturalisation
6) Mimicry
7) Dilution
Popularisation
9) Disenchantment
10) Diminishment
11) Stabilisation
12) Faux-Sociology Books by former Rolling Stone Journalists

Or something like that. I need to think about it more carefully when I'm more drunk.

[amok]

I love how cool #8 is on lists on this board. That guy is so smugly aware that he is by far the best item on the list, every time.

[Jimmy the Squid]

If the only people that can contribute to a genre (we'll take punk as an example here because it has already been mentioned)  and understand it fully are those that call themselves punks then who gets to decide what a punk is and what a punk isn't. How does one qualify to be a punk, if i decide to call myself a punk now and someone argues and tells me i am not a punk what right do they have to say that i am not. Is it because they are punk? If so who is it that gets to decide that they get to fit into this group.

The guy who is more punk than you?


That's right. I went there.

[Jackie Blue]

The guy who has more Crass patches than you?

[Nodaisho]

I guess my favorite "mainstream" band would probably be Radiohead.

I'M SO AVANT GARDAY

Now you are going to have to do recordings with one string. You know that, right?

[De_El]

When I saw Steve Krakow's Guitarkestra there was a dude with a wooden plank on which there was a single bass string, and he bowed the fuck out of it.

[KvP]

I think Les Claypool has a similar contraption.

Anyway, let's take this topic onto more predictable and beaten paths, what do you say?

Does anybody remember when the Black Eyed Peas were actually a respected hip hop group? I mean, seriously. I thought they were pretty good. And then they got Fergie. Exhibit A on why some people should never succeed.

[E. Spaceman]

The formation of subcultures is an organic process, going through a number of stages, such as perhaps:



list

Like i said once, Elvis can be used as a metaphor for most succesful subcultures.

He took a lot of stuff from marginalised people
He was young, he was dangerous, he was decried
he became accepted
he became the mainstream
He became bloated and fat
He died while trying to eat and shit at the same time


All succesful subcultures are destined to die fat and bloated while trying to eat and shit at the same time.

[Beastmouth]

I think Les Claypool has a similar contraption.

Anyway, let's take this topic onto more predictable and beaten paths, what do you say?

Does anybody remember when the Black Eyed Peas were actually a respected hip hop group? I mean, seriously. I thought they were pretty good. And then they got Fergie. Exhibit A on why some people should never succeed.

But will.i.am and the other guy still produce crap records sans Fergie.  So she, if anything, just opened the door to their inner suck. 

Also, the book for one of their albums made them seem like major jackasses.

[sean]

When I saw Steve Krakow's Guitarkestra there was a dude with a wooden plank on which there was a single bass string, and he bowed the fuck out of it.

On the subject of AVANT GARDAY BASSES LOL, I present the cardboard box.

A first big picture!

Also in washtub variety!

A second big picture!

Edit: these links work now!

[KvP]

The links, they fail to work.

[Jackie Blue]

[KvP]

Hot.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Does anybody remember when the Black Eyed Peas were actually a respected hip hop group? I mean, seriously. I thought they were pretty good. And then they got Fergie. Exhibit A on why some people should never succeed.

I was under the impression that she was always a back up singer for them and they eventually gave her a bigger role in the process. I think the solo stuff by the individual members is not that great but that may be because they don't have the collaborative process going on when they write songs. Maybe in the case of Black Eyed Peas it's too few cooks that spoil the broth...

[Nodaisho]

*img*

The hell?

[Spluff]

img

This thread has officially produced its magnum opus. All posts hereafter should hang their head in shame, as they can not possibly measure up to that awesomeness.

[RedLion]

..do..you people not understand the concept of sarcasm? I mean..jeez. My post was mocking the typical response that this thread would get from the average music consumer.. (although I do like all of the bands listed in the poll).

Wow. My fingertips shall only produce seriousness from here on out.

[Jackie Blue]

We get sarcasm.  We use it all the time.

You, however, might need some lessons, because your post came across not as a parody or joke or sarcastic.

[Alex C]

Compounding things with a "What I did went SO FAR over your heads" post rather than a rueful acknowledgement of miscommunication isn't exactly tactful either. I'm going to go ahead and quote Jeph on this one: Lurk moar.

[KvP]

Does anybody remember when the Black Eyed Peas were actually a respected hip hop group? I mean, seriously. I thought they were pretty good. And then they got Fergie. Exhibit A on why some people should never succeed.

I was under the impression that she was always a back up singer for them and they eventually gave her a bigger role in the process. I think the solo stuff by the individual members is not that great but that may be because they don't have the collaborative process going on when they write songs. Maybe in the case of Black Eyed Peas it's too few cooks that spoil the broth...

I thought they had a different backup singer (the one from the video for "Falling Up") but she left and they cut an album without her which nobody particularly liked, and then Fergie stepped in to fill the void and the scourge that was Elephant came into being. God, my dad likes that album. It's embarassing.

[Alex C]

Yeah, Fergie wasn't really involved until 2003. Never did like the black eyed peas though.

[MadassAlex]

Compounding things with a "What I did went SO FAR over your heads" post rather than a rueful acknowledgement of miscommunication isn't exactly tactful either. I'm going to go ahead and quote Jeph on this one: Lurk moar.

You think that's Jeph you're quoting?

[Alex C]

He said it earlier in the thread. Perhaps I should have said, "repeat" or perhaps "reiterate", since I'm sort of aware that on the internet things sometimes, you know, get repeated due to memes. Amazing, I know.

[MadassAlex]

I'm just giving credit where credit is due.

Fear 4chan ect.

[onewheelwizzard]

All succesful subcultures are destined to die fat and bloated while trying to eat and shit at the same time.

Genius.

[RobbieOC]

This probably brings the thread too far back to the begining. Sorry.

I heard a kid try to explain Tool to his dad by saying they were the Beatles of his generation.

[Spluff]

In a way, progressive alt/metal is the cheesy pop of this generation.

But in another, much more realistic way, cheesy pop is the cheesy pop of this generation.

[MadassAlex]

In a way, progressive alt/metal is the cheesy pop of this generation.

What. Prog metal isn't particuarly accessible, hugely technical, rhythmically varied and stable. How is it in any way like cheesy pop apart from being cheesy if you're listening to Dream Theater or Symphony X?

[Chrasstor]

One of the main reasons I myself, do not like main-stream bands(other than the whole trend-jumpiness of them) is because the people who like mainstream shit.

Have you ever tried to have a conversation with an MTV kid? Words cannot describe.

[dalconnsuch]

One of the main reasons I myself, do not like main-stream bands(other than the whole trend-jumpiness of them) is because the people who like mainstream shit.

Have you ever tried to have a conversation with an MTV kid? Words cannot describe.

its like slowly ramming your head into boiling water again and again and again and again and again, i know, torture beyond hell for anyone who uses their brain

but for me, i try not to judge mainstream bands based on who listens to them, i judge bands for their musical knowledge, i compare every band to the hiearchy set by jazz musicians like miles davis

to me every band i listen too needs to be somewhat musically intelligent, not just bashing out chorus after chorus in 4/4 with power chords en prestissimo ( 200+ bpm)

and don't bash tool, danny carrey is a polyrhythm god 5/4 with poly 3/4 ftw!

[Jackie Blue]

One of the main reasons I myself, do not like main-stream bands(other than the whole trend-jumpiness of them) is because the people who like mainstream shit.

I do not even know where to begin with listing how ridiculous this post is.

I bet you listen to dozens of mainstream bands.

[psyne]

I hate defining bands at all. I try not to take popularity or fanbase into account (though I do sometimes ignore a band based on its fanbase; like, I've never bothered checking out MCR because MCR fans are ridiculous). I don't even like the term "indie" very much since it's so vague, debatable, and doesn't really tell you much about a band besides "not mainstream" (usually). Some technically mainstream bands don't have a typically "mainstream" sound, some "indie" bands have a very mainstream sound but just aren't well known. I only take popularity into account in context - if a band is popular with people with similar taste to me, I'll probably check them out.

[pinkpiche]

And that is idealistic. Sure, it would be swell if everyone went around thinking like that, but that's not the case.

Pure logic isn't gonna work.

[SevenPinkerton]

It's hard to not be turned off to a band because the fans look like something that make you really depressed about life. It can be unfortunate because you just might miss out on a decent band, but everyone stereotypes.
I know I already develop a "sigh...not another one.." attitude when I go to check out a new band's show and notice the entire crowd is dressed in typical hipster clothing. It's hard not assuming the band is the latest copycat of the current hipster accepted crap. But it's not like I just leave, assumptions are ridiculous.

Anyways, when did mainstream become hip hop and rap? The radio station I listened to when I was a kid is now entirely hip hop.

[Johnny C]

the music you listen to (and the music you look like you might listen to for shit's sake) is completely unimportant in the grand scheme of things. It's actually ridiculous!

Yeah, while it's nice to be able to have a conversation about music with someone and have them know entirely what you're talking about, it's certainly no judge of their character.

[dalconnsuch]

And that is idealistic. Sure, it would be swell if everyone went around thinking like that, but that's not the case.

Pure logic isn't gonna work.

thats the contradition paradox theorem for ya

[Jackie Blue]

I hope you people are all saying this because you're still young and stupid because seriously, SERIOUSLY.

I don't give a fuck how someone dresses or what they listen to.  I have friends with atrocious taste in music.  One of my best friends listens almost exclusively to mainstream latin american rock, 95% of which I think is tedious shite.  But it doesn't matter to me!

I have friends that dress like they just came from a Rennasissance Fair or a Matrix Lookalike Convention.  Once again, who gives a fuck!

I wear prescription sunglasses at night.  Oh noes!  I'm pretentious!  Please don't speak to me!

Man I really hope that 10 years ago I didn't think this way.  "Oh, that band's fans look stupid.  Probably I should not listen to them."

GOD.

[psyne]

I wear prescription sunglasses at night.  Oh noes!  I'm pretentious!  Please don't speak to me!

Yeah, obviously it's so you can keep track of the visions in your eyes.

Seriously though, I agree. When I was younger I used to be kind of judgmental of people's taste in music - I wouldn't be friends with someone who liked rap, I had really defined senses of what was good taste and never thought I could be good friends with someone who liked music I thought was crap. Now, sharing music taste is obviously a bonding point, but that's not what the world is about. A lot of my closest friends have "very low" matches with me on last.fm, which makes me laugh because that kind of thing used to matter. Now I realize that some people consider different things important or good in music, and that's their own choice. I'm also much less ridiculous about my own tastes now - back then, I was very anti-mainstream, but now I just like what I like. Pretensions are a waste of time.

[pinkpiche]

It's not about caring what your friends listen to or what clothes they wear, it's about the mindnumbing quantity of people who don't know that you can't label a person like a genre. Because that is a pretty widespread phenomena i tell ye. I don't do that either, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world aren't total idiots on the subject. Which they are. Especially teenagers. I was a mean condescending fucker as a teenager, and a whole lot else that's not easy to put into words. But some people don't get over that and it's all a fucking big evil circle man.

Btw. I absolutely loathe Pink Floyd