Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Faker]

Ok, can’t believe I’m about to do some promotion for a Ben Stiller movie, but bear with me.

It’s the story of the cast of war movie who piss off the crew so much that they abandon them in the jungle and they get caught up in a conflict that they don’t realise is for real.

Sounds pretty poor right? I thought so too, til I saw this picture…




Ok, so you’re looking at it, Ben Stiller, Jack Black and who is the third guy?

Robert Downey Jnr.

Apparently he plays the part of an Oscar winning actor taking on a part originally written for a black actor and deciding rather than getting the part re-written he should go method on it!

So politically incorrect that I can’t help but be interested.

[Aceandcups]

It works on a level that I can't bear to bring myself to. Fourth wall shit - they know it's a movie, we're watching a movie, but they're not in a movie.

Haven't seen Stiller in a good movie since Zoolander.

[Faker]

Which Stiller directed, and this is the first film he has directed since... so, hopefully...

[Exar_Kun]

I love the premise of the story that they are shooting a movie with real guns and amunition.  They ought to adopt this idea in real life.

[Ikrik]

I think the only Ben Stiller movie I've EVER enjoyed was Zoolander...the rest has been absolutely horrendous.  I just find him really annoying and most of the stuff he does just doesn't strike me as funny.

[muteKi]

It's like a followup to that Tres Amigos movie with Steve Martin or whatever it was called.

[RobbieOC]

Three Amigos. Which was awesome.

And... yeah. Wierd. Um.

[Faker]

Robert Downey Jr. officially rules

TRAILERl

[Dizzydes]

trailer link doesn't work here another link to the red band trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCDtdhiCm6A

[Dimmukane]

Here is another link to something related; it's a mockumentary of the film being made in the movie. 


RAIN OF MADNESS

[Inlander]

Although the idea of seeing Robert Downey Jr. simultaneously perpetuating outrageous African-American stereotypes and outrageous Australian stereotypes has a certain appeal . . . from the look of that trailer this film is going to be bad. Like, really, really fucking bad.

[KvP]

It's gonna be a terrible flop. By which I mean, a relatively "pretty good" first month's returns on it aren't going to get near the production values. Pretty sure it overtook Evan Almighty as "most bloated comedy ever made".

[Tom]

Wait, is the movie going to be crap or is the movie within the movie going to be crap?

[Thlayli]

Oh holy hell, I hope everyone involved in this movie goes bankrupt. Blackface? In 2008? Someone in Hollywood really heard that idea and thought, "Hey, that won't be horribly offensive to the entire country"? And Ben Stiller, the man who has perpetuated the nervous, inept Jewish man stereotype in every movie but that abortion Zoolander?

[De_El]

Isn't being offended by the use of blackface in this movie missing the point in the most obvious possible way?

[Inlander]

On the other hand, claiming that something is "ironic" or "satirical" is too often used as a cheap justification for behaviour that would otherwise be deemed unacceptable.

[Spluff]

Being offended by blackface is more racist than wearing it. By being offended by it, you're saying that it is the colour of the skin that actually matters.

[KvP]

Isn't that a little bit of right-wing "racialist" bullshit? (You know who the real racists are? People who accuse white folk of racism. We white folk are trying to move on from our shameful past, but y'all just keep bringing it up! Shame on you minorities!) It's not much different from Sambo or minstrelsy. When you're revolted by blackface it's not "oooo, that black skin is bad!" it's got more to do with the caricaturing of black people as lazy stereotypes, lazy, watermelon-eating, etc. Same goes for jewface or yellowface or any of the old vaudeville routines. It's just this time RDJ is caricaturing the Hollywood "black badass" typecast, usually filled by Carl Weathers of Sam Jackson or the like, and to a lesser extent the trend of Serious Actors drastically changing their appearance (Nicole Kidman "uglying up" for the Hours, etc.) as bait for Oscars. In that respect it fits in with the purported Hollywood satire of Tropic Thunder. But tasteless as it is I don't know how much bite that satire's got. Borat had the same problem, in my opinion.

[Ikrik]

Being offended by blackface is more racist than wearing it. By being offended by it, you're saying that it is the colour of the skin that actually matters.

Whatnow?  I have absolutely no idea how exactly you are trying to defend Blackface.  What you're saying is that a black guy is being racist because he's offended by how his entire nation is being portrayed by some white man?  If a black man tried to do something similiar (White Chicks) it's not really frowned on as racist but that's not at all what we're talking about here.  The whole POINT of Blackface is that skin matters, NO one cares if a white guy pretends to be white (Mailibu's Most Wanted, most white kids I know) but when he goes through extensive makeup to do so it becomes offensive.

[Tom]

Did people get all offended by the Wayans Brothers' 'whiteface'?

No? Not really? Well, RACISM!!!

[Dimmukane]

So far, it seems to be getting a lot of praise in advance screenings.  I wouldn't write this off just yet.

[Tom]

Jack Black's character seems to largely be a parody of comedians like Eddie Murphy.

[Nodaisho]

I think Downey has guts taking the role, it could cause trouble for his career, though I have to say the makeup is well-done, I would not have recognized him at all.

Ikrik, how does people not getting offended by black people dressing up as white not apply? Is it because there wasn't a history of it being done as oppression? I don't care about someone dressing up in whiteface.

Now, this is coming from someone born in '91, I can't remember the riots in L.A., for the longest time I thought racism pretty much ended when MLK was killed, that was as far as we took the subject in elementary school. But still, some of the things that are called racism seem pretty stupid to me. A while back, some rapper or another, a previous felon, was caught having a friend buy machine guns for him, which is against the law (called a straw purchase). On top of that, the rapper was not allowed to own any guns, much less machine guns, due to his criminal record, but of course, since he was black, it was decried as racism by... one of the usual suspects, leaning towards Jackson, but it has been a while.

I am sure there is real racism still about, but it isn't nearly as rampant as some people seem to insist, when I saw Resident Evil 5's trailer, know what I saw? Not the lone mighty white hero shooting a bunch of evil black guys, I saw the hero shooting a bunch of zombies. Do I have a problem, or is that how it should be?

I don't know if I will see this, that head things was pretty damn disgusting, but I don't see racism there, what I do see is the blackface surgery getting addressed in the movie.

[Thlayli]

As someone who was born in '91, you probably haven't been exposed to the classic anti-black bigotry. You're right about that. But to not know anything about the history of blackface is supremely ignorant, and frankly it confirms peoples' opinions about your generation.

The biggest problem with movies like this is that they don't leave well enough alone. They just keep digging at old wounds, keeping the hate and ignorance alive. Without all the racist stereotypes, this would have been a nearly watchable movie... but it never would have been greenlit.

[Nodaisho]

Whoa, Thlayli, slow down before you hit that windmill. I never said I didn't know the history of blackface, I merely said that by the time I was anywhere near comprehending of current events, it was all over except for the shouting.

I see it as more of a mockery of racial stereotypes, with downey's character trying to stay in character, but seeming like a complete dumbass, noticeably different than the actual black guy in the movie. It is more like Samuel L Jackson in whiteface playing a character that got whiteface for a movie and is acting like the worst stereotypes of a redneck.

It may just be because you are new, so we don't know you, but you seem to take offense far too easily.

edit: I am not saying there is no racism these days, but I am saying that it is very rare, and most of what I hear accused of racism (even worse when I was in highschool) is nothing of the kind, which would certainly make someone less likely to take heed when there is something real going on.

[Nodaisho]

Hmm... less prevalent than it was? Not nearly as common as some spoilt highschoolers would tell you (I only got a D in this class even though I turned in homework some of the time and took a couple of the tests, Mrs. ____ is a racist!)? Very rare is a subjective term, and in retrospect, it is probably more common than very rare implies.

[Surgoshan]

But to not know anything about the history of blackface is supremely ignorant, and frankly it confirms peoples' opinions about your generation.

Uhhh, no.  The use of blackface in film died out by the end of the 30s.  Exposure to it now comes only from rare Looney Tunes cartoons and very rare, risqué artistic performances.  Because of the incredibly negative stereotyping involved, it's not a part of mainstream public discourse.  In order to encounter blackface, you have to actively look for it or, say, take a class on the integration of black culture into mainstream american culture.

In short, to say that not knowing about the history of blackface reflects supreme ignorance would be like saying that ignorance of daguerrotype or of Newcomen's engine reflects supreme ignorance.  All three represent a brief period of introduction before being surpassed by other, superior models.  The early models were then buried and largely forgotten.

[Nodaisho]

We covered it in history class, all of 8th grade's history was black history, from the 1400s and slavery to the civil rights movement, it was mentioned because then-recently, there was a teacher that had dressed up in blackface for something, maybe halloween, and had lost his job. Wasn't in our school, don't think it was even in Colorado, but the history of it was discussed.

The teacher in question apparently wasn't a racist, he just didn't realize it was in bad taste until afterwards.

[CamusCanDo]

I saw Bamboozled when I was either 10 or 11, I had no idea what I was watching. Other than that, beforehand I had only seen blackface in really old cartoons like Tom and Jerry on Cartoon Network. Oh, and Dragonball Z. Mr Popo, what?

It wasn't until I was 12-13 that I really understood what blackface was and that it was pretty fucking racist.

So yeah Tropic Thunder looks like shit

[Nodaisho]

Oh, and Dragonball Z. Mr Popo, what?

Meh, it was made in Japan. The culture is very different, and racism was never a big thing, so far as I have seen.

[Inlander]

Actually, I'm given to understand that Japan can be quite a racist country, but that it doesn't come up as an issue much but because the country is so homogenised. I've heard that Koreans living in Japan, or Ainu, can have a pretty hard time of it.

EDIT: though as far as I'm aware (from my very limited knowledge of the issue), racial prejudice in Japan rarely if ever descends into physical violence, and it's certainly not comparable to historic prejudices in the United States or in South Africa, for example.

[E. Spaceman]

I love many aspects of japanese culture, but sadly the country is and has been forever quite racist.

[Nodaisho]

I wasn't counting hatred of China and Korea, as I understand it, they are the same race, not sure if Oriental is the right term, I know Asian isn't, as the former USSR and the middle east are in Asia. I am not sure exactly how it works over there, I imagine some of the very old people don't much care for the U.S. (what with the violence during WW2, not to mention the nukes), but according to my Japanese teacher, the country by and large is fond of the U.S., thinks the Chinese are... the word she used that I remember was dirty, not sure how she meant that, and they just don't like Koreans, I don't know why they would dislike South Korea, but North Korea is hated for kidnapping Japanese people off of beaches. Maybe they just ball up all of Korea.

Still, though, I don't think there was ever any real bias against black people there, which is why Popo wasn't considered unacceptable during the 80s, or whenever it was made.

And hot damn, I helped derail a thread. paint another on my fuselage.

[CamusCanDo]

Still, though, I don't think there was ever any real bias against black people there, which is why Popo wasn't considered unacceptable during the 80s, or whenever it was made.

Apparently it was still pretty cool in the late 90's though.

[Eris]

Chocolove was on TV in Japan in 2001, and the American dub of it was released in 2003.
In the English translation of the manga his lips have been edited to avoid blackface, but in the anime they are the same. Are you going to go overboard over every single instance where one could be referring to blackface?


Don't forget people that racism goes both ways; it's not just white people hatin' on black people. I don't really see people getting offended at the Wayan Brothers with their 'White Girls' movie to the degree it's going on in this thread for the other way (I know White Girls has been mentioned in here already, but it was overlooked, so I'm bringing it back up again).

[Sox]

I am white, and therefore privileged! I'm not allowed to get offended by white stereotypes! Only black stereotypes.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

i don't get offended by white stereotypes because they are usually true.

precedent.

[Thlayli]

I wasn't counting hatred of China and Korea, as I understand it, they are the same race, not sure if Oriental is the right term, I know Asian isn't, as the former USSR and the middle east are in Asia. I am not sure exactly how it works over there, I imagine some of the very old people don't much care for the U.S. (what with the violence during WW2, not to mention the nukes), but according to my Japanese teacher, the country by and large is fond of the U.S., thinks the Chinese are... the word she used that I remember was dirty, not sure how she meant that, and they just don't like Koreans, I don't know why they would dislike South Korea, but North Korea is hated for kidnapping Japanese people off of beaches. Maybe they just ball up all of Korea.

Still, though, I don't think there was ever any real bias against black people there, which is why Popo wasn't considered unacceptable during the 80s, or whenever it was made.

And hot damn, I helped derail a thread. paint another on my fuselage.

I won't bother responding to most of your other comments, because others have said what I would say. But you need to know that there is no such thing as an "Oriental" race. Chinese people are not the same thing as Koreans, or Thai, or Lao or Viet. It is commonly accepted that the modern Japanese are a mixture of Korean, Chinese, and Ainu if I recall correctly; I may be wrong about the Chinese bit. Korea hates Japan because during WWII, the Japanese government kidnapped thousands of Korean girls and forced them into prostitution in ports in Japan. This was known as being a 'comfort girl'. Japanese racism has roots going back to the myth of Amaterasu.

[Nodaisho]

Eh, as one can tell, I don't put much attention or study into whatever the term is for physical differences between people originating from different areas, so I will admit ignorance in that field.

I'm pretty sure that the modern Japanese people would have chinese heritage, because, as I recall, the original immigrants to push the Ainu out were Chinese.

I don't see why the comfort girl thing would cause the Japanese to hate the Koreans, I could see why the Koreans would hate the Japanese, but not vice versa. I still wouldn't understand hatred against a whole country, especially when most people involved in that will be dead within ten years, but I never understand hatred of a granfaloon, so that is no different than usual.

[supersheep]

When it is modern-day government policy to imply that your pretty nasty actions were 'incidents' or part of some plan to free Asia from imperialism, and then the head of state pays a visit every year to a shrine commemorating war criminals, it is kinda understandable. Also, 'national' memory is quite long. People still hate the Brits for Strongbow, which was over 800 years ago, and a bit ridiculous.

[WriterofAllWrongs]

Hey guys, you know the dude isn't in blackface, right?  Blackface was used by whites to look like and subsequently parody the stereotypes of black folk.  The guy in the movie is a parody of pretentious method actors who go to absurd lengths to "be" the character, and therefore the so-called "blackface" is only a device to skewer such actors.  Most of whom are probably white. 

So yeah, Thlayli.  Nice job.

Also, I'm on the fence about this movie.  It looks like it could be stupid, amateur and reuse jokes from any other movie featuring Jack Black OR it could be very funny and another fun movie by Ben Stiller.  We shall see.

[De_El]

Actually, I'm given to understand that Japan can be quite a racist country, but that it doesn't come up as an issue much but because the country is so homogenised.

Racism on the part of the Japanese is kind of hard to figure because it's definitely racism and they definitely have negative stereotypes of other ethnicities on a specific basis (like black people, as evidenced), but a big part of it is also definitely xenophobia, reinforced by the nature of Japan's geography and various cultural things, like the myth of Amaterasu and the Tokugawa shogunate. It's not like the prejudice is limited to one particular group.

Basically what I trying to figure out how to say is that although racism is pretty prevalent in Japan, I'm not sure if it's fair to blame them because they might not know any better.

[est]

Hey guys, you know the dude isn't in blackface, right?  Blackface was used by whites to look like and subsequently parody the stereotypes of black folk.  The guy in the movie is a parody of pretentious method actors who go to absurd lengths to "be" the character, and therefore the so-called "blackface" is only a device to skewer such actors.  Most of whom are probably white.

I was going to say something like this, but then he said it instead.

RDJ isn't donning tanning make-up to pretend to be a bad-ass black dude in an action movie, he is playing a moronic method actor donning black make-up to yadda fucking etcetera.  The point is that such an action is fucking ridiculous.

[RobbieOC]

Basically what I trying to figure out how to say is that although racism is pretty prevalent in Japan, I'm not sure if it's fair to blame them because they might not know any better.

And really, the young people in Japan, a lot like the young people in America (and I would imagine most places) are pretty much past the whole race issue. When I was an exchange student in Ibaraki, I spent tons of time with Chinese and Korean students and none of them ever expressed any sort of negative experiences or reactions regarding the Japanese students, and vice versa. They actually all got along really well. And, Ibaraki is kind of the country, so it's a little behind the times compared to Tokyo or Kyoto or wherever else.

There might be some racial tension from older people, but as Japan gets more and more integrated, and the people in leadership are younger and younger, the xenophobia and racial tensions really are starting to go away. At least, from everything I saw while I was there.

[E. Spaceman]

Gaijin

[RobbieOC]

Yeah, so?

[jimbunny]

Can we, you know, judge the movie after we've seen it, perhaps? I mean, because that kinda seems like a good idea.

Personally, I love the idea of sending up the movie industry AND the Vietnam war movie at the same time. So postmodern, it makes me shiver.

[E. Spaceman]

Yeah, so?

The whole concept behind Gaijin is just an example of how deeply ingrained racism is in japan.

[Surgoshan]

Can we, you know, judge the movie after we've seen it, perhaps? I mean, because that kinda seems like a good idea.

What are you, some kind of communist?  Because that's communist talk.  Judging after we've seen it... psh.

[RobbieOC]

The whole concept behind Gaijin is just an example of how deeply ingrained racism is in japan.

I suppose so. But if that's the case, then you have to say that about every culture, really. I mean, everyone notices a foreigner, regardless of where they're from. It just happens to be easier to spot someone like me (a blue-eyed blondie) in Japan that in other places. I never felt insulted when they called me that. Maybe that's just a virtue of mine, though. I don't know.

I see your point, though.