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[morca007]

http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html?view=260510

This is a really long rant about Joss Whedon's Firefly. Why? Because I'm angry and I think it is really important that feminists don't leave popular culture out of the equation. Especially considering that popular culture is increasingly being influenced by pornography.

***

I have become increasingly interested in examining Joss Whedon’s work from a feminist perspective since I had a conversation with another lesbian feminist sister at the International Feminist Summit about whether Joss was a feminist. I am really quite shocked by how readily Joss is accepted as a feminist, and that his works are widely considered to be feminist. I decided to start re-watching Buffy: The Vampire Slayer and also to watch Firefly and the movie Serenity.

I have to say that now that I have subjected myself to the horror that is Firefly, I really am beyond worried about how much men hate us, given that this was written by a man who calls himself a feminist.

I find much of Joss Whedon’s work to be heavily influenced by pornography, and pornographic humour. While I would argue that there are some aspects of Buffy: The Vampire Slayer that are feminist and progressive, there is much that isn’t and I find it highly problematic that there are many very woman-hating messages contained within a show that purports itself as feminism. But Firefly takes misogyny to a new level of terrifying. I am really, really worried that women can call the man who made this show a feminist.

It's so hard to believe this isn't a joke, and once you get to that point, it's hard not to hate people.

[Surgoshan]

There are some women who believe that women taking control of their sexuality is empowering and feminist.

There are others who believe that a woman being portrayed as sexual, regardless of whether she's powerful or in charge of her sexuality or just an object, is pornographic and degrading and anti-feminist.

[Butch]

So, according to that person who scribed this, a woman wanting to have any sexual interest is demeaning and pornographic? That is quite the odd take on feminism, having an extremely narrow view of women's freedom of expression.

Edit: Okay, upon combing through the comments on that journal and reading how anyone who thinks she's gone to extremes on her views of sex in Firefly is "pro-prostituion" and their "comments will be deleted," I just want to die inside.  How can there be so much hate in one person that anyone having a different opinion is automatically without merit?

Also, how is all sex rape to this user?  I'm thinking personal issues have heavily biased her ideas of the world in very damaging ways.

[Emaline]

So women should not be sexual at all? Or I guess they should only be sexual when their partners want them to be, right? What about lesbians?


I'm a feminist, and what that person said offended me. As a feminist, I should be allowed to be sexual, when I want.


Also, I saw one or two episodes of Firefly, and it wasn't bad. Plus, if I recall correctly, there was a strong female lead in that show, who fought just as hard as the men in the show.

[Ikrik]

Wow.  Reading her argument is possibly one of the saddest things I've ever seen in my entire life.  But what's better is if you read the comments on the bottom and her replies to them.  Remember one thing, this woman is a self described "radical feminist."  This is a woman who could and WILL find ANYTHING she finds offensive as sexist.  Her arguments are founded not in her ignorance, but in her blind anger.  Her analysis of the characters is ridicilous.  What she wants is a cast that respects and works with each other.  What creates a great show is a cast that CLASHES, not a cast that overcomes everything together.  Honestly, I was so confused by this woman that I read some more of her livejournal....god.  This woman is so angrily feminist it's disgusting, seriously, read some of this shit.  This is a woman who will hate any man for the simple reason that "he's a man."  I wonder if she understood that Firefly is a "Space WESTERN."  god....

[muteKi]

Well, somebody's paranoid.

EDIT: I didn't find it funny until I read this comment of hers, stuff I found funny in bold and red:

Hmm... Considering I watched the whole series twice, read through every single script, read through Serenity about five times, counted the lines that men spoke and women spoke, then worked for about three weeks trying to write this I think it is interesting that you call me lazy. But anyways, courtesan is just another name for a woman in prostitution. I don't distinguish between women who are bought by men as sex and other 'feminine' resources. If you do, and you think that there is a nice way for men to buy women as sex, that there is an empowered way that women can sell themselves as sex then my journal is the wrong place for you. If you are pro-prostitution then you are not a feminist and pro-prostitution/women-hating opionions are not welcome on my journal. All prostitution is rape. The men who buy Inara ARE selling her into sexual slavery. For the time that they buy her she is 'theirs'.

I will be talking more about all of the characters. I was particularly concentrating on Serenity in this post. And Mal and Jayne's relationship definitely begs for a feminist examination.

Oh, and any more pro-prostituion comments will be deleted.

Paranoid

EDIT 2: Also, this

I believe in the radical feminist definition of rape. That is that men who pressure women into sex are rapists. That women who are pressured are not freely consenting and are therefore being raped. There have been a few discussions recently in the rad fem blogosphere debating whether all male initiated sex is rape, given that women are politically, socially and economically subordinate to men. So, in my understanding of Joss Whedon as a rapist is hinges on my definition of rape. I would argue that most 'sex' between men and women, in the contemporary 'sex-positive', pornographic, male-supremacist culture, is rape.

Paranoid... and delusional? I don't feel that either the sweeping generalization and especially not the idea that springs forth from it are necessarily valid. Honestly, women have to have some responsibility for their own decisions, otherwise they're digging their own grave!

[Ikrik]

Well, somebody's paranoid.

EDIT: I didn't find it funny until I read this comment of hers, stuff I found funny in bold and red:

Hmm... Considering I watched the whole series twice, read through every single script, read through Serenity about five times, counted the lines that men spoke and women spoke, then worked for about three weeks trying to write this I think it is interesting that you call me lazy. But anyways, courtesan is just another name for a woman in prostitution. I don't distinguish between women who are bought by men as sex and other 'feminine' resources. If you do, and you think that there is a nice way for men to buy women as sex, that there is an empowered way that women can sell themselves as sex then my journal is the wrong place for you. If you are pro-prostitution then you are not a feminist and pro-prostitution/women-hating opionions are not welcome on my journal. All prostitution is rape. The men who buy Inara ARE selling her into sexual slavery. For the time that they buy her she is 'theirs'.

I will be talking more about all of the characters. I was particularly concentrating on Serenity in this post. And Mal and Jayne's relationship definitely begs for a feminist examination.

Oh, and any more pro-prostituion comments will be deleted.

Paranoid

Paranoid?  Or lying completely through her teeth to make it seem like she knows what she's talking about?  If she hated the show this much she wouldn't have watched it so many times.

[muteKi]

THIS GETS BETTER AND BETTER!

Yeah, And I think another problem is what type of strength, where the strength comes from and what the strength is being used for. For example, Zoe's 'strength' is physical and violent. Now that is a male view of strength according to me. I love seeing women with physical strength. Women in the trades, handy lesbian women who can use drills, women who have strength from the work of child-rearing. But I have serious problems with the male view that physical strength is measured by the capacity for violence. So that is a major problem I have with Zoe's character. Every black woman I have ever met has abhorred violence. The black feminist books I read are very anti-violence. How can showing a black woman being violent be feminism? Zoe's strength, her capacity for physical violence is not being used for any kind of good. First she is fighting a war (and I believe that no war is good), then she is stealing things and committing crime under the orders of Mal and usually against her will. Her strength is not being used in self-defense, for protection or anything really justifiable, her strength is being used for gain, not even her own gain, but gain for Mal. I can't see this as being feminism either.

  !!!
  /



LOL ALL MEN ARE BAD AND WANT TO KILL YOU IN YOUR SLEEP AND THEN HAVE SEX WITH YOU LOL!!

[Jackie Blue]

When Firefly is a shining example of oppressive male culture and female subservience, it is perhaps time to step back and re-evaluate your priorities.

Shit, the women in Firefly were usually more bad-ass than the men!

[Nodaisho]

I can't say I ever saw Zoe do a quick-draw eyeshot after having just ridden at a gallop without breaking stride, but I never saw her being stupid played for comedy either, so it balances out. And of course, River shot three guys with her eyes shut.

As to her definition of rape... Someone needs to beat this woman with a dictionary. Seriously.

People this stupid piss me off because they give me conflicting conclusions with my morals. One one side, people should be free to say what they want, on the other, people shouldn't be free to be so goddamn stupid. Times were they wouldn't be that stupid, because if they were, they were wolf chow. Now we put safety messages on big wheels saying not to ride them on the freeway.

When does Zoe object to doing crime?

Is anyone going to troll this stupid bastard? I would say bitch, but that would be sexist... Not that I at all advocate the haranguing of someone simply for being stupid, wrong-headed, and offensive. For the record.

[idiolect]

I am happy to call myself a feminist.  I'm not sure I'd call myself a "radical feminist" but there have been other people who would.  I would even be willing to entertain a discussion on whether or not sex within a system of institutional oppression could be considered rape, insofar as when we say "consenting adults" there's an implicit requirement that "adults" be of equal status in terms of agency etc etc (although I worry that such use of the word "rape" dilutes the term as used by those who have, er, experienced what is meant by the more mainstream use of the word).  I'm really not sure that I'd call Joss Whedon's work feminist, and I especially never got the Buffy-as-feminist thing.  But this?  Jesus christ is that some shitty, superficial criticism she's deploying.  I mean, you could probably do a much more defensible reading of the show as exploring some of these issues.  The characters do seem pretty gendered to me, but only insofar as they each explore some particular disconnect within a certain archetype traditionally associated with their gender (and this, I think, very much applies to the male characters as well).


Also, that handy-lesbians-with-drills thing?  Hey there, why is it that only lesbians get drills -- or why is it that lesbians only get drills?  Way to perpetuate an oppressively restricting stereotype while purporting to rail against them.  That statement about women of color with white men wasn't terribly great either.


Maybe I just can't possibly understand her, because if I had lived in the Firefly universe I totally would have considered aiming for Inara's job.   

[Spluff]

Sounds like somebody needs a good cock!


Okay, jokes aside. This is really kind of scary - I have no idea how people can grow up into an adult that actually believes this kind of nonsense. Her parents must have done something very, very, wrong.

[morca007]

Okay, jokes aside. This is really kind of scary - I have no idea how people can grow up into an adult that actually believes this kind of nonsense. Her parents must have done something very, very, wrong.

I have met these people, they hate me for having a penis.

Is anyone going to troll this stupid bastard? I would say bitch, but that would be sexist... Not that I at all advocate the haranguing of someone simply for being stupid, wrong-headed, and offensive. For the record.

Heavy comment moderation. 

[Nodaisho]

So? That doesn't stop people from trolling moderated forums. I think that the idea is just to flood someone until they give up and curl up into a ball in their computer chair. I am not sure she would be able to, due to the huge stick up her ass.

[idiolect]

"Moderated" in this case means that it won't even show up, though -- she has to "approve" each and every one of those comments before it appears.  So, I mean, you could send her a bunch of stuff, but no one would ever see it except her, and I'm sure she's already getting all sorts of crap anyway.

[Jimmy the Squid]

That was one) narrowminded, humourless and made huge, sweeping generalisations in as casual a manner as I order a pizza when I can't be bothered to cook (often). It was also 2) incredibly racist and naiive. Obviously, and by her own admission, the author of this travesty against well-thought out arguments has experienced or at the very least witnessed the cruelty of certain men against certain women. It is incredibly stupid, though very very easy to assume that this same type of cruelty is enacted by all men. And yeah, as a straight, white, middle class male I am fucking offended.

The first scene opens in a war with Mal and Zoe. Zoe runs around calling Mal ‘sir’ and taking orders off him. I roll my eyes. Not a good start.

The first scene is  in a military context. If Mal is Zoe's superior officer than of course she is going to be calling him "sir" and following his orders.

Jayne asks Mal to get Kaylee to stop being so cheerful. Mal replies, “Sometimes you just wanna duct tape her mouth and dump her in the hold for a month.”

What the fuck is this feminist man trying to say about women here? A black woman calling a white man ‘sir’. A white male captain who abuses and silences his female crew, with no consequences. The women are HAPPY to be abused. They enjoy it.

I do not believe that this is any kind of malicious statement though, if only the script is read I suppose it could be taken as such. It is obvious from the way the actors portray their characters that there is a pretty high level of camaraderie between the crew members of Serenity. These kinds of jibes are/would be commonplace in this kind of environment. I agree that this is often a little one-sided but again, there is never anything malicious behind the jokes.

I could go on deconstructing her "well-researched" (it isn't) and "bias-free" (it definitely is not that!) little rant (yes, I am being deliberately condescending) but honestly it makes me too angry to be reminded that there are people who are this ridiculously narrow-minded and downright bigotted in the world. Her assumptions about Whedon's private life are petty, cruel and painfully simple-minded, not to mention unfounded, her anecdotal evidence about interracial couples are almost heartbreaking and overtly racist and her obvious revilement of men in general as well as her flippant use of the word rape which is, as several commentators have pointed out, loaded with connotations that do not even come close to describing what she is trying to, is insensitive and offensive to anyone who has been a victim of what is a physically, emotionally and psychologically damaging attack.

Firefly is not a particularly pro-feminist show (I wouldn't have described any of Whedon's work as particularly feminist but whatever) however it is not the cro-magnon abuse-and-rape-fest that she makes it out to be either. Some of her points, mainly about prostitution being bad in so much as it is not what I would call "good", I can get behind but the abrasive tone and one sidedness of her post literally enrages me. I am half inclined to disregard her entire opinion on anything simply based on how much of a jerk she has made herself out to be.

[Jackie Blue]

Not to mention River killed LIKE TWO FUCKING DOZEN REAVERS SINGLE-HANDEDLY.

Oh, but women who use violence are not being "strong", right.  Even when they're protecting those they love.

And I just noticed this on the second read-through: What the fuck does THIS mean?

"Mal and Jayne's relationship definitely begs for a feminist examination."

What?  Is she saying Jayne is gay?  Or Mal is gay?  Or is she so blinded by anger she got Jayne and Kaylee's names mixed up even though she's "watched the series twice and read the script blah blah blah"?

Head hurts.  Woman make no sense to stupid man like me.  Extensive rant about show which aired 6 years ago for 14 episodes bigtime waste of breath.

I never watched Buffy, but I saw absolutely nothing against women in Angel, either.

This has got to be a hoax.

[idiolect]

The first scene is  in a military context. If Mal is Zoe's superior officer than of course she is going to be calling him "sir" and following his orders.

A bunch of people have made this comment, and I've sort of flinched every time, because I know exactly how she's going to react: with indignation that you would be so comfortable with women in a subordinate role that you wouldn't bother to question it.  That, of course, isn't really the problem -- what's really the problem is that she did a terrible job of making her original complaint, and just ripped a single line from the script and says SEE SHE CALLS HIM SIR BLAAARGHHH instead of explaining anything.  But when you're analyzing something like this, in general, don't just go "well of course, that's how the show is," because the whole thing at issue is why the show is set up that way (e.g. why is Zoe a military subordinate in the first place, etc etc)


NOTE: I do NOT agree with 99.9% of what this self-appointed exemplar of feminism (argh) says, I just think saying what amounts to "well that's how the story is" as if it's some kind of analysis is kind of silly.

[Jimmy the Squid]

My criticism is based on how she did not address the fact that it was in a military context. I do see your point and yes my argument does suffer in that respect but my analysis was not of the scene in question but rather her criticism of it. I can appreciate how placing a black female character as subordinate to a white male (and southern, no less!) could be seen as dubious, though in the context of the show I do not see it that way, however my complaint was that the author of the article, for lack of a better word, did not seem to register the context of the characters actions.

Also, in my defense, I would like to think that I wouldn't question the situation if Mal was the subordinate in that relationship. I am trying not to mistake "ought" for "is". The fact of the matter is that that is quite literally how the show is; this is not analysis, it is just the content of the series. I am neither attacking nor defending the show other than the point that in a military relationship, superior officers are referred to as "sir" or "ma'am" (that might need clarification, I am neither in the military nor in the habit of talking to people who are) and their orders are generally followed.

[Surgoshan]

How can there be so much hate in one person that anyone having a different opinion is automatically without merit?

Go to church some time.  Or a political rally.

Also, how is all sex rape to this user?  I'm thinking personal issues have heavily biased her ideas of the world in very damaging ways.

Would calling her "damaged goods" be too dismissive and condescending without explaining enough?  She must've been seriously messed up by something.


That or this whole thing is a big, unfunny troll 'joke' of a blag.

[Ozymandias]

A bunch of people have made this comment, and I've sort of flinched every time, because I know exactly how she's going to react: with indignation that you would be so comfortable with women in a subordinate role that you wouldn't bother to question it.  That, of course, isn't really the problem -- what's really the problem is that she did a terrible job of making her original complaint, and just ripped a single line from the script and says SEE SHE CALLS HIM SIR BLAAARGHHH instead of explaining anything.  But when you're analyzing something like this, in general, don't just go "well of course, that's how the show is," because the whole thing at issue is why the show is set up that way (e.g. why is Zoe a military subordinate in the first place, etc etc)


NOTE: I do NOT agree with 99.9% of what this self-appointed exemplar of feminism (argh) says, I just think saying what amounts to "well that's how the story is" as if it's some kind of analysis is kind of silly.

When you start thinking about "why is the story how it is" it does start to lead to an analysis that questions just how much Joss's shows are "feminist". Both Buffy and Firefly feature very strong female leads, but in both instances they answer to a male authority and the only logic as to way they have to answer to him is because, basically, "he's the authority because he's the authority." Ostensibly, Giles and Mal are "smarter" than Buffy or Zoe. They make the plans. Eventually, Buffy rejects Giles's authority, but the result is not much change at all, as she continuously comes to him for the ideas and the plans through the fifth season. In the sixth season, Giles leaves and Buffy's life goes to hell, only to be fixed upon his return. Admittedly, the sixth season was bullshit in its entirety, but it still bears thought. I don't think Joss is intentionally subverting his feminist message, but I do think it's something that bears more thought when calling either show feminist or even holding feminist ideals, because I think this is a recurring dichotomy in a lot of science fiction. There's no problem with having a strong female character as long as she's kept in check by a "smarter" male authority. The Terminator comes to mind, I just read Snow Crash and Y.T. is definitely directed if not controlled by the men of the novel, in Dune, even, the Bene Gesserit use their consider power to aid men rather than themselves and their ultimate goal is a perfect man. The only thing I can think off of the top of my head where the strong female character successfully bucks authority and takes control for the better is Aliens.

Addendum: This woman is crazy.

[RobbieOC]

This is the argument that Laura Mulvey always made (makes?) in her articles. I have specifically read an article (scholarly, no less) about Wonder Woman and Buffy and how they deal with authority figures, as opposed to heroes like Batman and Superman, who basically put on a cape and started fighting crime. There's a big double standard in all of fiction about this kind of thing. Buffy is about as close as it comes to true feminism in the mainstream, but it still leaves a lot to be desired.

Plus, Zoe: hot. Buffy: hot. Fred/Illyria: hot. Joss can say he has strong women all he wants (and I do believe that for the most part he's at least trying to create good female characters), but as long as these women are as hot as they are, it all seems kind of shallow. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are hot, but it seems strange to say "No, these are strong women, not just objects to be looked at" and then hire Sarah Michelle Gellar to play the role.

Oh, the Powder Puff Girls were in that article, also.

[muteKi]

I suppose it says a lot about me that after reading the rest of the comments on the article I high-tailed it to DOMAI?

CLEARLY I AM AN EVIL RAPIST DEMON MAN WATCH OUT LADIES

Here's what some random person commented with:

How you pointed out that the way in which Wash treats Zoe isn't loving but LUDE! He even pats her butt in one episode! And when he is talking to the Alliance guy about her legs and watching her bathe - I mean c'mon! I don't even let my husband watch me bathe because I know he is leering and leering is NOT permitted! Not with me! Men - that is NOT love it is just lust when you 'admire' your wife's body like that!

Yes, admiring natural beauty is wrong everyone! When you're out appreciating forests or sunsets or beaches you're committing leering, and that's just plain lude.

[Border Reiver]

Based on the writings, this person is a radical, and like most radicals will interpret what she reads/sees based on her extreme beliefs. 

Generally, the way to deal with people like this is to ignore them, and by not carrying on about them and giving credence to their viewpoint by caring enough to be ticked off by it they can be difused. 

And on a different note, I wonder what she thinks of Battlestar Galactica and they way the Marines and Chief Tyrol oppress Capt Starbuck by calling her "Sir".

[Jackie Blue]

Actually I would say that Zoe is often demonstrably "smarter" than Mal and her answering to him because "he's the captain" is not really an issue because, as she explains at least once or twice in the series, she tends to go with his plans because she agrees with them.  I believe her and Wash had that exact conversation in that one episode where Wash gets all jealous.

[Narr]

I think one of the funniest parts about this is how she's picking apart... Firefly.

How many episodes were there again?  She's completely flipping a lid and losing her mind over a show that did not complete an entire single season run.

Don't get me wrong; Firefly is pretty awesome.  But damn, woman.  It's a cult classic which is to say fans love it and most other people on earth don't even know it exists.

[Aminal]

Every time I bang my boyfriend I'm letting down the feminist movement.

[Butch]

Every time I bang my boyfriend I'm letting down the feminist movement.

That memo went out fifteen years ago.  Didn't you get a copy?

Oh, and you're quoted for that.

[Jackie Blue]

I don't think Zoe is hot.

Kaylee and River... yeah, okay.

Inara... well, being "hot" was kind of integral to her character so I don't see the problem there.

[Nodaisho]

Every time I bang my boyfriend I'm letting down the feminist movement.

That memo went out fifteen years ago.  Didn't you get a copy?

Oh, and you're quoted for that.

This whole thing reminded me of an essay I read for English Comp, written by a woman in the 70s who was a stay at home mother, all of her female friends derided her for her decision to not have a job, and to take care of her kids. A father staying at home would have been applauded, a mother taking care of her late sister's children would be applauded, but for some reason a woman can't take care of her own kids? The movement to "empower" women wasn't about empowerment, it was about fulfilling the leader's agenda by telling the women that to be empowered, you had to do exactly what you were told, but by the women this time rather than the men. Doing what you want to do apparently isn't empowered.

Of course, thirty years later, her husband divorced her for a 20-something, but that is the husband being a slimebag, not all men are, no matter how much hypocritical misandrists want them to be.

Did I spell misandrist right? Firefox says I didn't, but their dictionary is incomplete.

[muteKi]

Actually I would say that Zoe is often demonstrably "smarter" than Mal and her answering to him because "he's the captain" is not really an issue because, as she explains at least once or twice in the series, she tends to go with his plans because she agrees with them.  I believe her and Wash had that exact conversation in that one episode where Wash gets all jealous.

I'll respond to a few extra posts here with this, starting with the above.

Yeah, there was a whole episode apparently based on the idea, it was the one with the return of Niska, among other things ("This is his fight." "NO IT'S NOT!").

Also, Inara = HOT.

And that one episode of Family Guy, I am reminded of it right now. Said the exact same thing as Nodaisho mentioned from the essay.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Ok so I was thinking about this this morning on the train and I've come to several conclusions.

Some of her ideas are totally valid. The thing about Zoe's empowerment only being derived from her use of violence (a supposedly male attribute) I can see and appreciate. The idea that all prostitution is rape I actually take issue with, especially since if she is using the whole Companion thing as an example then she needs to understand the context of that example within the world it takes place in, also I think her use of the word rape is too frivilous and that she should be a little more tactful.

Basically I just wanted to say that some of her ideas I can appreciate and respect but her execution was appalling and the tone of her article made me cringe with every sentence.

[idiolect]

When you start thinking about "why is the story how it is" it does start to lead to an analysis that questions just how much Joss's shows are "feminist"... There's no problem with having a strong female character as long as she's kept in check by a "smarter" male authority.

Yes, exactly.  I think Firefly in particular was pretty complex, though, in terms of the gender dynamics and archetypes and challenges to those same archetypes etc etc.  That's a huge part of what kept me interested in the show and watching instead of reacting in that "roll my eyes" sort of way.  It seemed like there was more playing and experimentation with these images than strict enforcement of them.  For example, Zoe is obviously supposed to be the fierce and somewhat exoticised woman of color, a little overphysicalized, kept in check by the authoritative hand of some man, and yet she's the only member of the crew who is married, and the way their love is portrayed seems pretty counter to the first image we have of her.

In any case, yeah, I'm not sure why people are so keen on Whedon's work being "feminist" (to me it always seemed like maybe one step above calling the Spice Girls feminist because of all that "girl power" bs).  But I do think there's some interesting stuff going on in Firefly that might warrant a closer look, for those who are interested in this kind of thing.

in Dune, even, the Bene Gesserit use their consider power to aid men rather than themselves and their ultimate goal is a perfect man.

I know   I haven't read Dune in a few years, but I do remember being a little weirded out by the dual structure of the advisor types, that is, the bene gesserit and all that is associated with them vs. the mentats and their related notions and images.  Also, now I'm trying to think of all the various places throughout western (and eastern?) intellectual history where it is said that a woman's highest aspiration is to give birth to a great man.

[Ozymandias]

I don't think it's ever demonstrated that Zoe is smarter than Mal. Maybe more cool-headed, but not necessarily smarter. At best I would put them as equals in intelligence and ability and, yet, Zoe remains subordinate. Take Our Mrs. Reynolds. Zoe very obviously disagrees with Mal and Wash and, yet, she goes along with Mal because, after all, he's the captain. It's that position that is important, Zoe is not on equal footing with Mal regardless of her skills and intelligence.

I'm trying hard to find female authority figures in sci-fi, particularly. Captain Janeway, quality of Voyager aside, was the ultimate authority of her ship. Chakotay was a captain of a ship himself and still subordinate to her. Admiral Cain of the Pegasus in BSG was definitely a strong authority figure, but also fucking awful so she doesn't really count. President Roslin, OTOH, I think is a pretty good figure. She's not the only authority figure, but she is extremely intelligent and doesn't always go along with Adama.

[Jackie Blue]

I don't think it's ever demonstrated that Zoe is smarter than Mal.

I could have sworn there were several times where Zoe said "This is a bad idea" and later Mal said "I guess you were right" or she said "I told you so".

[Nodaisho]

And of course, it seems like she survived the war more through skill (sneaking up behind an alliance soldier and cutting his throat, on rubble, in boots), where as mal just got very lucky (running, yelling, and shooting not even bothering to take cover).

I think that the writer of the blog thinks that a woman shows empowerment by hating men. That is all that she seems to do, hate everything that men do. I kind of feel sorry for her, she can't be a happy person with that much hate going on.

Ozy, how about Honor Harrington? She is kind of a mary-sue, but she is an authority figure. Not the leader of the whole navy or anything, but only subordinate to a few people. Granted, some of those are males (at least one of them is a woman), but she is usually given free reign within her assignment to do as she sees fit.

[muteKi]

I'm trying hard to find female authority figures in sci-fi, particularly.

Depending on how strict your definition is, maybe Princess Sally from the old Sonic the Hedgehog Saturday morning cartoon?
She was capable, smart, cool-headed and could definitely take care of herself, and really did have a legitimate leadership position while Sonic did most of the grunt "hero" work, though that said she certainly also put herself in the front lines quite regularly.

[LordNagash]

Samus Aran, from the sci-fi games series collectively called Metroid. As mentioned before, Ripley from Aliens. Dr Crusher from Star Trek next generation. While not the captain herself, she had athority over Picard if she needed to. Major Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell (more Stand Alone Complex than the first 2 movies.) I am sure there are more.

[Jackie Blue]

Sally Shears/Molly Millions from Gibson's early work.  That girl did not take shit from anybody and she would (quite literally) cut you if you tried anything wise on her.

[Scruffy]

I was going to write an individual retort for each of the four main female characters, but I decided that replying to a feminist saying Firefly was sexist is like removing wallpaper with handfulls of sand.

[idiolect]

like removing wallpaper with handfulls of sand.

Wow, what a great image, and what a wide range of things there are in the world that could be aptly described that way.

[idiolect]

Also, guys, just for the record, I really hope you don't take this person to represent feminists in general.  As far as I'm concerned, she only represents her own wacky self.   

[Butch]

I know she's a ridiculous extremist.  If all feminists thought that this blinding "anything woman does with suggestion or presence of man is rape" credo were the law, they'd be a hate organization and not a justified perspective.

[Aminal]

The movement to "empower" women wasn't about empowerment, it was about fulfilling the leader's agenda by telling the women that to be empowered, you had to do exactly what you were told, but by the women this time rather than the men. Doing what you want to do apparently isn't empowered.

See, I used to buy into that.  I told my roomate her mom was LAZY for being a stay-at-home mom when she's trained as a nurse.  Then one day I saw this Barbie movie, The Princess and the Pauper, and at the end the Pauper goes off to pursue her dream of...something.  BUT THEN she comes back, and says "Sometimes the freedom to choose means choosing to stay instead of to go."  And I finally saw the light. 

[Ozymandias]

Samus Aran, from the sci-fi games series collectively called Metroid. As mentioned before, Ripley from Aliens. Dr Crusher from Star Trek next generation. While not the captain herself, she had athority over Picard if she needed to. Major Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell (more Stand Alone Complex than the first 2 movies.) I am sure there are more.

I thought of Samus too, but then remembered Fusion retconning the series so that she always took orders from Adam. Thank you, shitty game for continuing to ruin the series in some small way.

[Ikrik]

Also, guys, just for the record, I really hope you don't take this person to represent feminists in general.  As far as I'm concerned, she only represents her own wacky self.   

Really? For me she represents a few feminists I know.  I wish there was another word for femanazi....but that perfectly describes them.  They hate men for the simple fact that they're men.  They won't treat any male with respect because of the thousands of years of female repression.  It's weird because ANY argument you get into with them turns immediately to the fact that they're women...which means they're right, and since I'm a dude I'm obviously just trying to repress them.  She reminds me of a bunch of girls in my school everyone tries desperately to avoid talking to.

[Narr]

There are feminists that aren't radical.  They usually don't really bother to label themselves as feminists, however.

There ARE a lot of disturbing trends among the sexes.  I don't think any educated person can deny it.  The fact a man and a woman in the same job will have severe pay discrepancy, for example.

I don't deny the media's role in shaping people, either.  For example, most girls I know that grew up and LOVE Disney cartoons and still have a strong love for Disney?  They're all just... I don't know how to describe them other than "frivolous."

[Surgoshan]

I've a good friend in med school, getting married in a month, a single mother before that, with a tattoo of Tinkerbell.  Why?  Because she grew up loving Peter Pan.  The book because her grandmother read it to her, but also the Disney movie.  I know her full name, but she was introduced to me as Tink and always will be.  Frivolous she's not, though.

[RobbieOC]

Thats not just a female thing though... hollywood always casts attractive people; men as well as women. Why do you think they cast Nathan Fillion as Mal? *Girly licking of lips* Also, have you SEEN the guns on Alan Tudyk? The entire casting of Buffy is the same thing... Spike and Angel are both gorgeous. The whole casting "hot" females is a matter of opinion as well, who is to say who's hot?

I wasn't trying to exclude males, it just wasn't part of my point. But you're right. Men can be objectified also.

And, I suppose hot is a matter of opinion, but I have a hard time believing there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't say these women aren't at least nice to look at. It's not a Joss thing, either. It's a Hollywood thing. Even when a character is supposed to be unattractive in movies, they often get attractive actors to play the part and just give them makeup or an unseemly mole or something.

[Alex C]

It's self-reinforcing too. Part of the reason I never tried getting into acting or anything is because I suspect that as a 5'8" racial mutt I've got vaguely ethnic sidekick or small time character actor written all over me-- and that's if things go well. You need a lot of determination and a fair bit of luck and good looks to get steady work in that field and everyone knows it. It takes a special kind of determination to really stick with that profession if you're merely typical.