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[teh pwn queen]

I'm doing some research for a project I'm working on and I decided to go on some forums and ask this question:

What do you believe are the worst sins done by (or to) gamers?

List off as many as you can think of.

[FireAarro]

tk

[McTaggart]

Metagaming if it's a very in character sort of game.
Not metagaming in every other case.

[Wyvernhand]

Spamming in game chat channels.

Speaking in 13375P34K.

Gloating about overwhelming victory over a slain opponent.

Doing all 3 of the above at once.

[Surgoshan]

Being an XBox Live player. 

[Ozymandias]

Condemning another gamer for their favoring of genres.

[Scruffy]

Back tracking.
I hate, HATE backtracking.  There are obvious exceptions with timed escapes and such, but just being told that you need to go back 3 levels to use the key is just a waste of time.

Easy game, Impossible boss.
If you've done RPGs enough you'll run across this game.  You go, defeat the ultimate power, destroy the baddies and get to the main boss with the ultimate gear, all at level 20.  The boss one hits you, toast.  You now have to grind 40 levels to beat him.  Heh, I hate that.

While on RPG's
Male character exiled from home with only his sword to redeem himself at which time he'll meet a girl and two others who will lead him on a quest to save the world ultimately defeating said evil after multiple multiple close calls. Cliche death.

-------------

Teabagging
Knifing
Kill Stealing
etc

[Dimmukane]

Being an XBox Live player. 

Do you mean that we have to pay or the people in general?

If it's the latter, then rabid fanboyism.

[Narr]

What specifically do you mean by sins here?  I need an example to give a more concrete answer.

If you mean things that are truly evil, then we'll say the general poor sportsmanship of people online.  Those who grow up playing basketball, football, soccer, or just any kind of sport in general are taught good sportsmanship.  How gloating just makes you an asshole, how playing dirty and unfair ruins enjoyment and is illegal for the most part.  People who's first form of competition is online gaming do not learn such rules.  They learn the best way to win is to exploit game flaws.  They learn you're supposed to teabag dead enemies.  They learn you're supposed to taunt in crude ways.

The above also ties in to why I despise most team-based games anymore.  Everyone is so caught up in being a poor sport, it ruins any semblance of fun.

If we're talking poor game design, I second everything already mentioned by Scruffy.  I'll also add a few to that list.

Worthless NPCs:  This one is especially true in Baldur's Gate, but quite a few JRPGs suffer this.  Do not give me a character who I am never, ever, ever going to use.  Don't give me a guy who doesn't have the correct stats for a class combination, don't give me a character that's incapable of scoring any significant damage with the attack button.

Nonsensical monetary systems:  Honestly, what's the point of gold in Final Fantasy Tactics?  You accumulate it so fast, you'll never be in want or need of anything you ever might need to purchase (which frankly is quite little, as the game spoon-feeds you grandiose equipment).  There's games with the other extreme, as well.  Another Final Fantasy, in fact, this time #12.  Without loads of grinding items for cash, you'll be behind on either equipment or skills unlocked on the job board thingy doober.  In fact, the only games I can think of where the money systems actually make sense (as in you can afford necessary upgrades, but might have to spend a little extra time to get that something special) are the Namco Tales games.

Ammo conservation:  Oddly enough, the only games where this would factor in realistically, it's never used.  How awesome would a stealthy first person espionage shooter game be if you only had 5 clips for your silenced 9mm?  That'd be realistic.  Far too often in FPS games, you're swimming in ammo and never have to worry about picking and choosing your targets.  Then you get survival horror games (*cough* resident evil *cough*) where you'll spend the majority of the game running away because you have to save all your ammo for the boss in order to actually take him down.  Lame.

Next-to-Impossible goals:  I appreciate a challenge as much as the next guy, but I do not want to resort to an FAQ for a fucking fighting game to read the ONE possible strategy for scoring a 100 hit combo in a game where a typical above average player can get a good 13 hits in, tops.  I don't care if it's technically POSSIBLE; I don't want to spend 5 years perfecting some string of buttons and input press timings to unlock, say, an extra costume.  Guitar Hero 3 is very guilty of this.  RAINING BLOOD IS TOO HARD FOR THE CASUAL PLAYER.  To anyone that says a casual player shouldn't be playing on expert, I say "go die in a fire."

Time Investments:  This one especially applies to MMORPGs, but many other games fall in the category.  There should never be anything in any game which REQUIRES more than 15 minutes of contiguous play.  This means there shouldn't be any 4 hour long exercizes in futility (raids in early World of Warcraft, for example), there should not be any section of a first person shooter which takes more than 15 minutes without a way to save your progress within, there should not be any dungeons in any RPG that take longer than 15 minutes to complete unless again there is a way to save your progress within.

If something DOES take longer than that, at least give me a fucking pause button.

[Surgoshan]

Being an XBox Live player. 

Do you mean that we have to pay or the people in general?

If it's the latter, then rabid fanboyism.

This:

How gloating just makes you an asshole, how playing dirty and unfair ruins enjoyment and is illegal for the most part.  People who's first form of competition is online gaming do not learn such rules.  They learn the best way to win is to exploit game flaws.  They learn you're supposed to teabag dead enemies.  They learn you're supposed to taunt in crude ways.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

we're not all like that, i swear. some of us manage to be good people and play on xbox live!

[Dimmukane]

Yeah, I won't be the first to say that people who play on Xbox Live aren't automatically assholes.  Less than 5% of the people I come across are rude in any way.  Some games it shows more (*cough cough* shooter of the month) than others, but for the most part, the people you play with are pretty nice guys.

[Narr]

It does seem to be more rampant in FPS games.  It's almost as if the more popular it is, the more everyone on it is a complete asshole.

I've had pleasant experiences with FPS games, even when new.  Call of Duty (the original) was pretty awesome when it came out, and Battlefield 2142 was pretty awesome as well.  You didn't encounter as many dipshits and assholes because servers almost always had an admin on at some point and because the game was very team-based without gimping you yourself (as in, making it so you're only capable of doing one thing well while having lots of weaknesses *coughTF2cough*), people learned to work together better.  You didn't want to piss off someone because you don't know if he's going to be on your team next round, helping you get that unlock you've been trying for a month to get.

[imapiratearg]

It does seem to be more rampant in FPS games.  It's almost as if the more popular it is, the more everyone on it is a complete asshole.

You have no idea how right this statement is.  I remember playing Halo 2 when it was really popular and modding or "standby-ing" or "glitching" or what have you, was in, about 5% of the people I played with were nice.  That pretty much turned me off of Xbox Live entirely.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

i play alot of CoD4 and the biggest problems i encounter would be people singing, yelling, being annoying in general; in which case i just mute them and all is well. i actually encountered 'teabaggers' for the first time the other day and did not not have a problem with the actual teabagging itself as it temporarily disctracted them, earning more kills for my team. the only problem is that the type of people who do this are also the loud, rude, and usually stupid people you hear so much about. however, as with most things you can just ignore them and everyone is better off.

[Dimmukane]

The more popular the shooter is, the more likely it is to have a mute option.

[Blue Kitty]

I would say have to agree with Scruffy when he says Tea Bagging.  That is pretty much an automatic black listing in my book.  Also, I make it my job to personally fuck the person over for the rest of the match.  Where ever they are I make sure I find them and kill them in the most humiliating way possible.

With the problem of having to listen to other people, I am mostly voice chatting with my friend so I never have to hear it.  Sure, I lose the ability to discuss tactics, but that rarely comes up.

[Siert]

Having personally played games for nearing 17.5 years of my valuable life (started at 18 months with some flight game which my dad tells me I adored, involved capturing bases and they reinforced regularly.)

Well in all my time, I can express several views. Single-player, Multiplayer(Lan and Online) And MMO (Massm ultiplayer online, not limited to RPG!).

Singleplayer;

In my experience of singleplayer games I think the worst case scenario as previously stated is RPGs, where you need to grind god knows how many levels to proceed. (Even worse in mmorpg, must be level xxx to proceed!In retrospect, thats not to bad, at least your warned!) In singleplayer your only warning is where your last savepoint was, (Worst case scenario, the gorgous game of final fantasy 7, I missed the save point (I simply forgot to save to be honest) And decided I should grind a bit and take on this boss!.... BIIIG mistake. I lost a valuable 16 levels from each character which took me some 6 hours.
(Sin = Self stupidity)

Multiplayer LAN. Well the ultimate sin here is cheating, you can see where everyone else is on a splitscreen, also the blatant stealing of controllers (Thankfully the 360 got rid of unplugged controllers for easy gankage). So that sin of LAN party cheating in part was solved but still present.
(Sin = friends cheating!!!)

Multiplayer Online, Heres where it gets interesting. My first ever online experience was through a game called Diablo 2. I played this on a 56k dialup which i thought was amazing, i rarelyi f ever lagged inthe game, if I did lag, I thoguht it was the games fault and simply waited or logged out and back in. Thats okay. The PROBLEM is when you get the "griefers" Those players who come in, kill you, then leave, stealing your ears in the process.
(Sin = sadistic behaviour)


Now onto the more ... colourful experience of FPS gaming online.
List of FPS's played online;
Halo 1,2,3
Counter strike
Half life
Half life 2
Far cry
Doom 1,2,3
Rainbow 6 (Urgh too many gametypes to even start, but Vegas 1 + 2 are msot recent)
Call of duty 1,2,3,4 (3 on the xbox)

Every one of them I have been exposed to probably the most horrible sin of gaming. "N00bs". Now I have actually left games from the abuse these people give, the torrent of abuse (only on games where I can't mute I add). Is just horrible, I wil lactually list what was said to me tonight while playing Rainbow 6 vegas 2.
"u fukin nub u retard u cnt use a p90!" (I had 17 kills and 3 deaths)
"OMG GET A LIFE!" (Leading the match with 9 kills 0 deaths on a 3 vs 3 with 4 lives each. I got banned for being "Too good" My friend was on his side, and I was in private chat with him, no not cheating, he was giving me insults to, but friendly ones.)

These ones were given after gameover.
"u suk u suk u suk!"
"omfg i fuk you mom!"
"Haha u suk i win!"
"omg dude ur mum was as bad as u!"
"lol ur gay"
And assorted racial slurs. Needless to say in playing vegas 2 for the past few days i've probably tripled my avoided player list.
( sin = Abusive behaviour)


MMOs, now these I like to think i've had a fair amount of experience in. Warcrack being the best. Especially from stories im sure other players can relate to. Such as the groups to go travel a dungeon with, now I used to spend a good hour looking for a group, as soon as I found one, travelled to the instance, got on in, getting ready....The healer would say "BRB dinner"... I swear every time something happened, was either the Tank or healer... The ones vital to the groups success.
(Sin = Other players lack of foresight)

Other stories, Going hunting for materials to craft, killing monsters, and look.. a chest/mineral vein. Oh yay I got here first, noone else around, lets start collecting.. oh no wait im being attacked argh!.... Then you realise a hunter has trained a group up to you and is now stealing your loot. This happened 3 times in one night, you'd have thought i'd have learned but i'm stubborn, I got my revenge, I died 4 times but I got her in the end!
(Sin = Other players greed)

I could go on, but lesee... what of the seven sins could I muster up here....

Wrath, Pride, Greed, Sloth Oh AND Envy...

[Butch]

Pride can be the most annoying gamer sin outside of any game environment.  Honestly, some of the most annoying conversations I've had start with I mention some game I enjoy, and the other gamer chimes in how not only did he beat it but he can beat it with world-record-esque speed and everything found. Even if I do looked impressed, the person just starts going through their mental gaming library, stating how any game they've touched, they've beaten in every way imagined.  Not only does this stop being impressive after they go onto games you've never heard of, but you know they're feeding you some bullshit to try and stroke their own ego. I think spending so many years playing with themselves, they've forgotten no one cares about it unless you can youtube the speedrun with a damn high-quality recording system.

[McTaggart]

It really depends on the game. Serious online games, the only sin is not winning. Do whatever you need to, but only extend it out of game if that's what you really need to do to compete. Use every advantage and border-line exploit to your advantage because your opponent is sure as hell going to do the same.

Playing for fun the only real sin is being a dick.

[Siert]

. Even if I do looked impressed, the person just starts going through their mental gaming library, stating how any game they've touched, they've beaten in every way imagined. 

Well just to expand on this bit, im guilty of.

Although in honesty the worst I've ever said was I completed final fantasy 10 in a day (its true, the part I don't say is , I cheated.) I hated the sphere grid, so that was totally lame ass I know. But it was unfulfilling so I stopped after that and decided I would play games properly, unless I just plain suck but want to have fun (Lets use half life 2 for example,  ravenholm, I got way too scared and decided the ONLY way for me to get through was to cheat, become invincible or so the enemies can't see me. (Hey I'm being honest) But, AFTER I cheated, i went through normally to see if i could do it, so it balances out. (Mainly becauseI saw how fun ravenholm could be!)

Okay drifting, but my point was that I am guilty of pride myself. (Hell in my previous post I bragged about 24756753 - 1 kill ratio, sure I do but its believable  and probably you will never ever see it, it still makes me happy I've done it, heck i can't prove much except give my gamer tag to show that in most games I just plain suck except a few!

[Butch]

I'll take this as a repenting for your ways and you're forgiven.  Though honestly, we all have games we're actually good at and love to boast about.  For example, I've actually achieved 10 endings in Chrono Trigger and nearly completed the sphere grid for one character in FFX.  Oh yeah, and I've beaten every GuitarHero song on Expert except Jordan.

I can't stand the people who tell that story about every game they've played.  I think it's the rough edges that make a person interesting anyway.  To put this in the context of another gaming example, I can't beat Megaman X and I've never beaten Final Fantasy 6, though the latter is because I hated the final fortress and the split-party system.

Gah, I'm going off-topic!  Um... I've also noticed gamers speak of gaming-characters as real people in their life.  But that's less a gaming flaw and more of a taking-modern-entertainment-too-seriously thing.

[Siert]

you want to knwo something scary? it took me 6 years to complete final fantasy 7. SIX YEARS! Thats because I got lost.... afterI had to go find a key, i had no idea where I was supposed to go, I thought I had to kill emereld weapon (I never did, I never even killed ruby, I weas only succesful inbreeding a gold chocobo in my sixth year, thats when i completed the game I got knights of the round, and absoloutely owned sephiroth in the easiest way possible.

Repenting my sins? of course thats what im good at, I am honest, I am a great gamer, I have gamed as said previously the majority of my life, I like to think of myself as excelling in any game I touch, which is basically lying to mysefl, i usck at so many games. What is BETTER to say is im good at some games over others.

I am so derailing this thread, I know it but I can't stop myself.

I mean, I am 100% sure you have encountered the l33t "n00b" I say noob as the definition of these players, not newbie, not l33t speaker, just simpley noob.

[thatryanguy]

13 year olds and teabaggers and noobs aside, I think the one most irritating thing I've ever had to deal with in any online game, was Grammar police.

Stay with me on this one.

Playing Warcraft3, one of the Tower Defense custom maps (I've always preferred coop to vs. in multiplayer) About 25 mins into the game, everyone's screaming at me, and the guy who's hosting is threatening to kick/ban me.

Why?

Because I'm using capitals and punctuation.

Yeah.

They were so freaked out by forming sentences properly, that the host was willing to essentially lose the game (It was a very "all-spots-must-be-defended" type of TD) just so that they wouldn't have to read Capitals and Periods anymore.

....

Oh, and I really hate tea-bagging. Stuffing your bits into the mouth of a male corpse (in the case of gaming anyways) is no way to prove how masculine you are, and how gay you aren't.

[Butch]

Wow, when you said grammar police, I thought it'd be the opposite.  You're talking about grammar-haters?  That sounds absolutely insane.  I mean, I was one of those proper-response people in my time on World of Warcraft and the worst thing I suffered never speaking in combat because I would take too long to respond.

Siert, noobs have been around way before the invention of the internet.  They're just easier to identify when they're forced to express themselves in writing.

[KvP]

Worthless NPCs:  This one is especially true in Baldur's Gate, but quite a few JRPGs suffer this.  Do not give me a character who I am never, ever, ever going to use.  Don't give me a guy who doesn't have the correct stats for a class combination, don't give me a character that's incapable of scoring any significant damage with the attack button.

Honestly, this wasn't so much an oversight on Bioware's part as it was a conscious decision to make Baldur's Gate adhere as closely to orthodox AD&D as possible. If you weren't allowed to reroll stats indefinitely or add / subtract from rolls (as in Temple of Elemental Evil, for example) when you created characters you'd have PCs with similar stats to those of Khalid or Xzar. In AD&D an 18 stat (let alone 18/97 strength like Minsc's) is supposed to be considered exceptional and rare. Of course, us powergaming tabletop players would always fudge our rolls anyway, and it's practically unthinkable to have characters whose primary stat with less than 17. Honestly, I consider 3rd ed point buy to be even worse. Min-maxing really sucks.

Some things I can think of:
 - In racing games, oftentimes there will be "rubber band AI" implemented, meaning that if you are ahead of computer opponents, they will get an extra, improbable burst of speed allowing them to catch up with you. Other times, this manifests in computer opponents actually slowing down when a player has fallen behind.

 - Grind levels in normally grind-averse games. Example - Baator in Planescape: Torment. All fighting none of the character interaction or attention to environment detail that the rest of the game benefits from.

 - Level scaling. This is a pretty rare thing, but it plagued Oblivion something fierce.

[frullic]

He who uses the n00b tube must be slain!

[Ikrik]

Grinding:  Final Fantasy is BY FAR the worst offender of this. That's all the game is.  I have NEVER been killed in that game by anything other than a ridiculous boss.  I get to spend another 2-3 hours levelling up and getting ready, fighting the boss, and then getting to the next place.

Bad Voice Acting:  Euuuuuuuugh, boring voices bug the hell out of me.  Overacting is a common occurence in a lot of games and should be shot.

FPS's:  I have played a fair number of FPS's and honestly, there are SO many out there that are TOO similar and just boring.  There have been some good ones recently, but the rate that they're pumped out is insane.

Non-Skippable Videos:  Ever hate having that in a game, where you sit through a 5-10 minute video before a boss, fight the boss, die, and then have to watch the same video again because the makers of the game didn't think of allowing you the option of skipping videos?  There were a fair number of PS2 games I had where I would get owned by a bass 4-6 times and be forced to watch the video again...and again....and again.

Racing Games: Nascar is not fun....GT is not fun either....really.

[Narr]

Grinding:  Final Fantasy is BY FAR the worst offender of this. That's all the game is.  I have NEVER been killed in that game by anything other than a ridiculous boss.  I get to spend another 2-3 hours levelling up and getting ready, fighting the boss, and then getting to the next place.

A few people have mentioned this so far, and I have to say I disagree.  Of course, back when I was a kid, this was the solution but now that I'm older and have a much better grasp of what I'm doing, I can beat most JRPGs without resorting to a level grind.  I think I was like level 34 or something when I beat FF4 last time I played it because I actually ran away from most random encounters in XP-heavy zones like the tower of babel.  Zeromus was a bitch but I got him in the end.

Bad Voice Acting:  Euuuuuuuugh, boring voices bug the hell out of me.  Overacting is a common occurence in a lot of games and should be shot.

Oh god, yes.  I wish more companies would invest in worthwhile voice actors because it makes or breaks a lot of games.  The Namco Tales series, for example, all have wonderful voice acting, which makes it so it's not a tedious grind through all character interactions.  Then you've got Star Ocean 3.  OH GOD.  OH GOD MAKE HIM SHUT UP.

FPS's:

Racing Games:

That's just personal opinion there.  You can't call an ENTIRE GENRE a gaming sin.  I agree that there's far too many FPS games coming out too frequently with little to no innovation, but that doesn't make the GENRE worthless.

Racing games can be quite fun.  I enjoyed the hell out of all the Gran Turismo games so far, although I never really did care for the endurance races.  Granted, I think the Nascar ones are pointless and silly, but that's because I think Nascar in general is pointless and silly.  YOU GO IN AN OVAL TRACK FOR 500 LAPS.  GEE WHIZ.  YOU ARE A DRIVING ACE THERE, BUCKO.

[teh pwn queen]

This is great guys... keep it coming!!!

And to answer Narr's questions...
I'm not looking for anything specific... I'm just curious as to what the masses believe are bad, stupid, horrible, dumb, etc. things done by or done to gamers... no matter what type of game.

As said before, please keep posting.

Thank you.

[Siert]

I'm not looking for anything specific... I'm just curious as to what the masses believe are bad, stupid, horrible, dumb, etc. things done by or done to gamers... no matter what type of game.

Well if theres any area of your report / thesis / dissertation that your lacking in just say im pretty sure you could get your information here.

Todays encounter with gaming profanity!

Halo 3 (I walked into this one, I actually wenton halo 3 matchmaking, so this is self inflicted).

When walking in Halo3 you have an option of turning on the enemies radio, so you can hear them when you get close. This proves strategically vital if you are sneaking around  intending on getting a silent kill. But when your in a little hidey hole and one of their team is singing "LAAA LAALLAALAAA LALALALALAAAA YOUR GAY YOU GAY YOUR A FAGGY *racial slurs here* LAALAA" I just sat jaw agape, sure I am meant to be de-sensitized to it, but it wasn't that, it was the fact that the people on his team that had no idea how ot mute were suffering this.

Do people actually care what they say? or do they simply think the world revolved around them? Are they the number  one people on this planet?

Sins used today?
"Sloth + Pride"

OH and greed, I got teamkilled because I picked up the rocket launcher, (Got to love the betrayel  kick system!)

[Surgoshan]

John Gabriel's Greater Internet Dickwad Theory

[muteKi]

Any game that judges you on your score, in like a platformer or beat-em-up that has the score reset if you die.

Basically, in order to get the top rank for performance (not high-score list, just if the game says "Great job" or "You suck" to you on how you played) you cannot die.

I would be willing to put up with this if the score did not reset when one died.

[Ikrik]

A few more

Tutorial Missions:  Having a completely seperate tutorial mission for games is almost always useless.  What I mean by this is having like a tutorial "obstacle course" where you learn to do things as you move through the course.  Give me a relatively simple first mission and teach me from there....then everything is cool.

Easy Mode is Too Easy And Hard Mode is Too Hard:  I like my games to be playeable.  I went through Kingdom Hearts II in easy and normal mode and I only died once.  Easy doesn't mean that you should be invincible.  It should just mean that the game doesn't kill you so many times you want to chuck your console out of the house.  Hard Modes are sometimes fun, sometimes. Generally Hard modes mean there are more enemies and are stronger...I'm fine with that, but when there are twice as many enemies, who have twice as much health, do more damage, and added to that your own health is a tiny fraction of normal mode you have a serious problem. 

No Side Quests:  Almost every game needs sidequests, or even just little stuff you can mess around with.  The reason why RPG's like Final Fantasy can be so fun is because there's so much stuff you can do without having to advance the plot.  I've played a few RPG's that have little to no sidequests (don't ask for names, they were 3rd party crappy PS2 games that my friend lent me) And it drags the game down so much.  Any FPS could be made a million times more fun if they gave you some sidequests.

[Narr]

I'm not sure I have much of a problem with that personally, muteKi.  I know that for me, one of the things that made the Megaman Zero series so fun compared to the other Megaman games is that in order to get all the extra spiffy moves, you had to beat every mission with an A rank.  Not only did dying make it next to impossible to get an A rank on that mission, taking too much damage (usually more than your average life bar, assuming you've picked up health packs) made is super hard, too.  And there was usually a very strict deadline.

Go back and try playing a game like as you described until you finally CAN beat a stage without dying.  Once you get into "hardcore" gaming (as defined by me and my friends at PlayItHardcore.com), it's hard to hate on a challenging yet beatable game.

But like I said earlier, when the game expects the insanely difficult (as in the next to impossible), then I draw the line.

[Surgoshan]

Easy Mode is Too Easy And Hard Mode is Too Hard:  I like my games to be playeable.  I went through Kingdom Hearts II in easy and normal mode and I only died once.  Easy doesn't mean that you should be invincible.  It should just mean that the game doesn't kill you so many times you want to chuck your console out of the house.  Hard Modes are sometimes fun, sometimes. Generally Hard modes mean there are more enemies and are stronger...I'm fine with that, but when there are twice as many enemies, who have twice as much health, do more damage, and added to that your own health is a tiny fraction of normal mode you have a serious problem. 

Ninja Gaiden avoided the Too Easy trap... by having a normal mode that's tough as balls and a hard mode that will kill your family.
I believe this is the Penny Arcade comic that depicts that, but I'm not sure because their server is down.

[clockworkjames]

Hacks, LAG, people whining about cheap shots/camping/melee kills/humiliation.

I play at LAN alot and there are LAN rules or "The LAN Commandments" if you will.

Basic stuff - no AFK in tourneys, no sexual orientation hatred, no dickery etc.

But yeah, LAG is the worst thing in the world outside of gamers control. After that hax but they are in gamers control.

[Siert]

Hacks, LAG, people whining about cheap shots/camping/melee kills/humiliation.

But yeah, LAG is the worst thing in the world outside of gamers control. After that hax but they are in gamers control.

Here I have to add my own review of this. LAG oh my I agree, do you notice it seems to benefit the other team? They jump around all the time your bullets won't hit, or even register leaving the gun! Such a mess... empty billions of bullets and realise that NOTHING happened except you got hit in the back of the he ad and have died on the other side of the map...

I detest lag... Althouhg my friend educated me on how pings work and how people exploit them, i don't ping he never taught me how to do it (Doubt I ever wold, im a fair gamer).

I play at LAN alot and there are LAN rules or "The LAN Commandments" if you will.

Basic stuff - no AFK in tourneys, no sexual orientation hatred, no dickery etc.

Oooh got to tell me more abotu this, lan commandments? intriguing, so im guessing similar antics to what happens with us, glaring at others screens ,insulting each other and of course jerking out controllers...

[muteKi]

I'm not sure I have much of a problem with that personally, muteKi.  I know that for me, one of the things that made the Megaman Zero series so fun compared to the other Megaman games is that in order to get all the extra spiffy moves, you had to beat every mission with an A rank.  Not only did dying make it next to impossible to get an A rank on that mission, taking too much damage (usually more than your average life bar, assuming you've picked up health packs) made is super hard, too.  And there was usually a very strict deadline.

Go back and try playing a game like as you described until you finally CAN beat a stage without dying.  Once you get into "hardcore" gaming (as defined by me and my friends at PlayItHardcore.com), it's hard to hate on a challenging yet beatable game.

But like I said earlier, when the game expects the insanely difficult (as in the next to impossible), then I draw the line.

Well, I think its a problem when the game is designed to kill you 10 ways to Sunday, like Sonic Heroes often is. That would have made the super tight controls a feature rather than an occasional limitation.

Also -- games without fully customizable controls.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

Easy Mode is Too Easy And Hard Mode is Too Hard: 

Bioshock did an amazing job of avoiding this. the hard modes were much harder but they were actually alot of fun rather than ridiculously frustrating and impossible.

[Siert]

Bioshock had the "infinite respawns" your only punishment was you had slightly over 1/3 health and mana. But you didn't loose anything and enemies still has reduced health from the last attack.

[Narr]

No punishment for death is a big issue with me.  At least with Bioshock, you can turn vita-chambers off.  It's just kind of stupid to me that you'd have a game, which is usually some sort of test of skill, and not have any penalties for failing.  The ONLY game I can think of where this doesn't really matter to me is Planescape: Torment because the reason you play it is to be immersed in a world and a universe, where the story is vastly more important.

[Siert]

Hmm, I think there needs to be a line between suitable punishment and unfair.


Let us take MMORPGs, these are a worthy choice, they are businesses, thus a death penalty is a reasonable "Stall".

Which would you rate as worse. Loosing 10% of your exp (Someimtes loosing a elvel, depending how cruel the game is)

OR

Gaining a debuff that lasts between 10 minutes and two hours that reduces your statistics (And capability of preventing you dying, again!)

[Storm Rider]

I don't think Bioshock's intent is to be a test of skill either, to be honest. I'd argue that it has a similar goal to Planescape: Torment, it's just in a genre that is more action-oriented.

[Siert]

I go online and the people on my team and the opposing team both tell me GTFO NOOB and no one tells me what I should be doing and I just get killed a million times and they tell me how stupid and retarted I am.

People tell you that even if your brilliant... believe me I get it for using a gun that everyone thinks sucks.

(The infamous P90) ... I seem to do fairly well with it, but I get told im retarded, gay, need a life, faggot...and racial slurs... its a lovely experience!

[Narr]

The P90 is considered a bad weapon?  really?

Fuck that.  You unlock the damn weapon, you deserve to use it.

@ roxie_vinyl:  Yeah, Blizzard fans are notorious elitists.  Be glad you've never discussed class talent tree specs inside World of Warcraft.  That's an excersize in futility.

That actually brings me to Elitism.  It's pretty prevalent outside of gaming as well, really.  It's just extremely noticable inside gaming, as everyone has to voice their opinion.  Before I go further, I must say I am incredibly guilty of this sin.

[muteKi]

Tutorial Missions:  Having a completely seperate tutorial mission for games is almost always useless.  What I mean by this is having like a tutorial "obstacle course" where you learn to do things as you move through the course.  Give me a relatively simple first mission and teach me from there....then everything is cool.

I missed replying to this earlier, though as I think about it I have to disagree.

I think that making a tutorial mission or level COMPULSORY is a very bad idea overall.
HOWEVER, if I don't have a manual for the game I don't know how to do anything at all, just hope that the controls are very intuitive or GameFAQs has something on that matter. Even then I might miss out on more advanced techniques.

If the game gives me the opportunity to become accustomed to how it plays while not punishing me and making sure I actually know how to use the controls, I am happy. I may not even ever have to consult the manual.

[JD]

I hate games that have all these incredibly destructive weapons but then you get stuck by a door.
Half-life 2 is extremely guilty of this. I still love the game however.

[camelpimp]

Grinding:  Final Fantasy is BY FAR the worst offender of this. That's all the game is.

Ha ha. Ah ha ha ha.

(Honestly, the only Final Fantasy where grinding is most of the damn game would be 1, 2, maybe 3 and 11 [haven't played them], and 12 but mostly for cash. The FF series is pretty sane when it comes to grinding most of the time)

I'm an old-school JRPG player, so I can stand a lot of bullshit, but fuck FF7 for bringing clunky, stupid, and inappropriate mini-games in vogue.

[Siert]

For rainbow six vegas 2. ALL guns are bloody awesome, they each have strengths.

Just people hate P90, Famas, M468 + aug Para. because they fart bullets.

I mean i killed 8 people withh all 51 bullets of a P90 (One in the chamber, ssh.)