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[Ozymandias]

As a long time Joss Whedon fan, I figured it was time to pick these up. Buffy ended on a very low note and was pretty much crap for the two seasons before, while Angel ended on a high note and was awesome and I've wanted more for a while.

Well.

Season 8 is amazing. It's Buffy at its best and probably the best season of Buffy since season 3. It's funny, clever, and has a fantastic plot. Everything that sucked about Buffy during its later years is basically gone or transformed into something good. The new Big Bad actually seems like he might be threatening and could be interesting, which is a nice change of pace from the crappy villains of seasons past. There's been some really weird character development, but it's growing on me, and I basically love this series again. Drew Goddard's latest "episode" is one of the funniest things I've read in a while. I can't say enough good things about it.

After the Fall, meanwhile, is equally awesome. They went in a completely different direction than I would've ever guessed from the end of the series and it's working. The book is dark and epic in a way that would've never worked on TV. They've avoided all of the pitfalls this direction could've taken and embraced the concept fully. I love it, again. Angel was never a bad show and usually outclassed Buffy while it was on and After the Fall is pretty much on par with that level of excellence.

Unfortunately, I think they need to give up trying to adapt Serenity to the medium. Those Left Behind was basically mediocre and Better Days is proving to be the same. It just...isn't working. Sucks.

SO, uh...anyone else reading the continuing adventures of the Whedonverse?

[ThePQ4]

My sister is subcribing to Buffy, and she owns pretty much any other Joss-related comic book.

Have you read Fray yet? And there is a Serenity graphic novel, but I haven't read it yet.

[muteKi]

Any comic with the name Better Days will instantly draw comparisons from me to comics about furry drama.
I haven't read it, though, so I can't vouch for the quality, only that such is what springs to mind for me.

[Ozymandias]

Have you read Fray yet? And there is a Serenity graphic novel, but I haven't read it yet.

No, I actually need to pick up Fray soon, yeah, since...uh... (spoiler) the next major Buffy arc involves Buffy going to the future...somehow...

And, yeah, Those Left Behind is the Serenity trade, but I didn't really enjoy it. It ties up a couple of things from the TV show, but I just...I couldn't get into it like I've been able to for Buffy and Angel.

[ThePQ4]

Hrm. Fray was excellent. It has kind of an unexpected twist I won't ruin for you. And the art was pretty.

I should have gone to Borders and bought some comic books...damn.

[RobbieOC]

I'll talk about season 8 and After the Fall.

I just finished watching Angel sometime in January, which was awesome timing since the comic is just getting going, and I do really enjoy is so far. I love what they've done with Connor/Nina/Gwen and the whole Lords of Hell thing is an awesome idea (especially seeing how Spike and Lorne both ended up taking to the roles so easily and the way they've chosen to use their power). My only real problem is what they're doing with Gunn, though I'm willing to give it a go for a while and see where exactly they take it. I don't hate the idea, I just think they could have come up with something better.

Season 8 of Buffy meanwhile... I'm really digging it so far. The writing has been perfect and there have been some exceptionally funny moments. The whole bedroom scene in the last issue (where everyone kept running in) was one of my favorite Buffy moments ever. I was glad to see a Faith storyline, and I hope they continue to use her. I'm still hoping for more Andrew. I can't get enough of him.

I haven't picked up Better Days yet. I'll do that and get back to you.

[Ozymandias]

I'm of mixed feelings about Gunn.

On the one hand, he's very different from the rest of the Angel gang and it doesn't feel right. Everyone split up after the Fall for various reasons and maintain a little animosity toward Angel for his actions that led them there, but when it comes to it, they're all still the Good Guys and when push comes to shove, they will defend Angel. Everyone, that is, but Gunn and it just...doesn't sit quite right with me.

OTOH, it's a really, really interesting development for the character and an interesting concept to explore in the universe. Angel was a good guy because he had a soul. Spike was a good guy because of the chip and love of the fight and then because of his soul and love for Buffy. But Gunn is a "good guy" just because he wants to prove he can be, vampire or not. And, let's face it, near the end of season 5 Gunn wasn't much of an interesting character. Interesting things would happen to him, but he wasn't much.

Anyway, issue #13 of Buffy and issue #6 of Angel actually came out yesterday. Buffy was hilarious because of Xander and, uh, his Master (and Willow and Satsu have a great moment) but Angel was...meh. They're doing the First Night thing right now and I don't really care. Lorne's part was clever and Conner had his moments, but otherwise I'd rather they just get on with the story.

[RobbieOC]

I'll have to go pick those new issues up tomorrow. I've been real interested about the First Night stuff, to be honest, so that sounds pretty cool to me.

I don't like the whole Buffy/Satsu thing. There was some funny stuff because of it, but the actual "them" stuff... I don't know. Maybe it will grow on me, and I guess with both Angel and Spike out of the picture they've got to do something, but I don't like the decision they made. I sincerely hope they prove me wrong.

About Gunn. He was one of my favorite throughout the whole show. He's an interesting guy, because he is just a guy. He doesn't have the superpowers or watcher's training or anything like that. He's just a guy. That's why he's such a great character. Now... he's not just a guy, and there aren't any "people" in the cast anymore. Even Wesley is a ghost, so there's no touchstone anymore. Gunn was always the Xander character in Angel, because you identify with him. I guess... now we identify with Angel? Did they pull that switch on us?

[Ozymandias]

I think After the Fall is actually bringing up the actual question of who is a "champion" in Angel. Gunn was always an ordinary man living in the world of demons and fighting it for revenge and because, well, he's human. But he's not anymore and he continues to fight for good, according to him, for what? Revenge or because he wants to? If he actually does good, does it matter? And does it mean more if he does it while being a soulless monster?

Angel, on the other hand, was a monster given a soul and it hurt him like hell. He had all the strength of a vampire but was forced to deal with his inner demons. He fought good because he felt guilty, because he wanted to redeem himself in his own eyes. And now he's human, ostensibly redeemed from being a monster, but still he fights. He fights like he doesn't have to worry about his newfound weakness. Like he's not mortal. Because he wants to continue the fight for good and save humanity.

Meanwhile, Spike has all the strength of a vampire plus the soul, but he's still a selfish git. He sits as a Lord of LA drinking blood from a fountain and having gaggles of women around him and, yeah, he helps Illyria deal and the underground human resistance surreptitiously, but he doesn't engage himself directly and avoids confrontation.

I dunno. I'm more interested in the character development than keeping the characters static because that's how they were.

Also, The Buffy/Satsu thing is growing on me the more I think about it. Buffy is lonely and stressed. Buffy is surrounded by girls who idolize her and even love her. Satsu is more of an equal to Buffy than most of the rest and...she needed release. I think it was irresponsible of her, but it's not an inconceivable act.

[RobbieOC]

Point taken. I never wanted the characters to stay static, I guess I'm just still coping with the changes that were made. The world of Angel is so different now, and the way the characters are being written reflect that in a really neat way. They literally live in hell, so I guess I can't expect them to be the same as when they just lived in LA.

What are the chances they try and bring back some of the dead characters like Fred, Doyle, Lindsey or Cordelia? Since they're in Hell, and it's a comic now (so no having to worry about the real life death of Glenn Quinn) I wouldn't mind at all seeing more of Doyle. And it always made me sad that they got rid of Fred, even though I really like Illyria. I'd be OK without Cordelia or Lindsey, to be honest, but if they bring back the other two...

And the Buffy thing makes sense, but the whole lesbian thing has been done so much (and so well) already in Buffy that I'm afraid they'll oversaturate things. If that makes sense. Willow and Tara were cool because it was kind of a new thing on TV. And then Kennedy came along, but it was still Willow. With Buffy thrown in... like I said, I hope they prove me wrong.

[Ozymandias]

I think they're hinting really hard at Fred returning. I hadn't thought about Doyle returning, but you're right, they could try.

And, yeah, that's what initially really put me off with the Satsu thing, they already did this. But it's not really the same. Willow is a lesbian. Buffy is not. She doesn't love Satsu, which is why I think it's irresponsible of her since she knows Satsu loves her. But she's trying to find a way to enjoy herself while the weight of the world and the lives of so many girls is on her shoulders and she doesn't really have much in the way of men around her.

[RobbieOC]

Yeah, and Buffy has always had major problems with both leadership and relationships, so I guess this is just a combination of the two. It definitely makes things interesting. I'll have to wait to read the next issue and see where they've taken things.

I don't know, it might just be fun to see what Doyle's up to, and now they can do it realistically. It's probably a long shot, but here's hoping.

I'm also very happy to see some characters that have come straight out of the "Expanded Universe" - to steal a Star Wars phrase. Betta George is a great character in the Spike series, and it was neat to see him around, even if all he did was get beaten up by Gunn. It poses a huge continuity problem, but it's still kind of neat.

[Ozymandias]

Buffy Season 8 is continuing to be the best thing to happen to any Jossverse ever. The ending to Drew Goddard "episode" was amazing and hilarious. Dawnzilla vs. Mecha-Dawnzilla was so ridiculous absurd and awesome and Dracula was incredibly funny the whole way through.

Picking up the new issue tomorrow, after I finally finish reading Fray, since, uh...they're related.

[RobbieOC]

Got to agree with all that. Loved seeing Dracula in it, and Dawn's role was just perfect.

What's real cool about this, to me, is that the things they're doing are really making great use of the medium. They couldn't have done this last story if it was still on TV, but it still felt like a Buffy story, despite that. Loved it.

I'm very excited about seeing Fray again.

I haven't read Angel in a while. For some reason the comic store nearby didn't carry part of it, and I'm not about to read any of it out of order, so... meh. Buffy's good enough for me for now, I guess.