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[Ballard]

.. what the fuck just happened to this thread?

[SleeperCylon]

The rap I like is stuff like Public Enemy and De La Soul.

I bought The Chronic recently.  I couldn't get into it.  It seemed to me like the invention of obsessively market conscious rap, which cares more about franchising itself and creating an image than making any kind of good music or real statement.

Plus there's some newer stuff I can get into.  Madvillain, Dangerdoom, Clipse, Outkast, etc.

I don't like the Beastie Boys.  But I *could* like them if I could get past their annoying whine-screaming voices, especially since they got more electronic.  And especially after they stopped pandering to washout teenagers who hate their parents.

[est]

Posts that start out "haven't read any of this thread except the first post" are not a very good idea.

[Statik]

No, I know it's music. I'm not that much of an asshole. I just find the repetition of one unchanging beat over and over to be utterly tedious and without interest. Your comment about bands doesn't make any sense. I listen to shitloads of EBM, dub, post-industrial, whatever, and those people can put together decent songs without being a band.

As for lyrics, I can't even work out what the dudes are saying in a good few of these tbh. Lyrically, the ones I can hear haven't really impressed me, except for the cLOUDEAD song someone posted I think on the last page, which incidentally, I liked a bit. A lot of it seems pretty blatant and tired. "Help, help I'm being oppressed!". Not that I'm sure these words aren't laden with truth, but man, I already read left-wing blogs, I don't need that shit bashed around with a rhyming dictionary and set to a crappy beat as well.

And Body Count are a hardcore band. WTF?

It was moreso just an analogy, as rap / hiphop tends NOT to vary the background beat much, except during breaks / choruses / what-have-you.  I wasnt being critical of someone not liking that (I realise now how heavy handed my "open-mind" statement may have come across).  But it is something that takes getting used to.

I am very picky of what hip hop I listen to, and I tend to gravitate towards lyrically interesting people/groups, the majority of what is on the radio tends to be overly repetative, highly sexist/mysoginistic (spelling?)/ and utterly boring.  I do enjoy listening to Ludacris every once in a while, as I think he has actual lyrical talent, but I dont think its something you would be looking for.

If you havent already, I suggest you listen to the Aesop Rock videos I posted.  While I cannot claim to know what the hell most of his songs are about, he writes very well, and I dont think I have found a song of his I dislike.  (Although I do really enjoy Zodiaccupuncture and Holy Smokes more than others).

[dalconnsuch]

army of pharoahs and immortal technique

political rap at its finest

Eh...Immortal Technique repeats the same stuff OVER AND OVER AND OVER again and often the stuff he says just sounds idiotic.  He has some good stuff but a lot of the time it's just annoying to listen to.

actually immortal technique is very varied, and besides his highlight anyways is the beats

army of pharoahs though should not be taken lightly

[diablo_man]

well if you normally like rock, or metal
then listen to the song Bring the Noise by Anthrax.  featuring Public Enemy
it started the whole rap metal thing, for which it should be dragged out in the street and shot, but that is a sweet song.

[rynne]

well if you normally like rock, or metal
then listen to the song Bring the Noise by Anthrax.  featuring Public Enemy
it started the whole rap metal thing, for which it should be dragged out in the street and shot, but that is a sweet song.

Not by a long shot, really.  Run-D.M.C.’s cover of “Walk This Way” with Steve Tyler and Joe Perry was a top-five hit half a decade before Anthrax covered Public Enemy.  Heck, Public Enemy themselves were sampling Slayer on the same album as the original “Bring the Noise.”

[diablo_man]

well if you normally like rock, or metal
then listen to the song Bring the Noise by Anthrax.  featuring Public Enemy
it started the whole rap metal thing, for which it should be dragged out in the street and shot, but that is a sweet song.

Not by a long shot, really.  Run-D.M.C.’s cover of “Walk This Way” with Steve Tyler and Joe Perry was a top-five hit half a decade before Anthrax covered Public Enemy.  Heck, Public Enemy themselves were sampling Slayer on the same album as the original “Bring the Noise.”

i stand corrected! although walk this way is more of a rock song.

[mfpole]

Two more tries
Japanese noise rock rap group  54-71
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARx1Ncpcu9s&feature=related

I love this band, sometimes the lead singer really isn't rapping, but I love he plays with the sound of his voice.

Subtle
It has one of the guys from cLOUDDEAD in it.. the one who can rap really fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5HVRe7UDuc&feature=related

[KharBevNor]

Sorry, I gave up on this thread, because hip hop is pretty awful.

[rynne]

Sorry, dude.  At least no one can accuse you of making an uninformed decision.

[pinkpiche]

I think Khar is a rare specimen of "cannot but most importantly WILL not" actually 

[brew]

No, I know it's music. I'm not that much of an asshole. I just find the repetition of one unchanging beat over and over to be utterly tedious and without interest.

What do you think about non-hip-hop repetitive stuff like Steve Reich, Shellac, early blues, Aphex Twin's Select Ambient Works Vol 2, Philip Glass, etc.?

[Beastmouth]

Hip hop isn't that repetitve.



I Am Sitting in a Room is repetitive. 

[KharBevNor]

There is a rather large difference between ambient music, or repetitive no-wave or industrial or whatever, and what has been presented to me here, and elsewhere, of hip-hop. Basically it comes down to a sense of progression. To my ear, most of these songs do not appear to be moving anywhere. The beat is a simple loop and the rapping monotonous. There doesn't appear to be any structure or whatnot to the song. The beat is not a musical element which builds through repetition, but a metronome for the rapping, which I find uninteresting. If you were to compare this to, say, New Mind by Swans or Han Som Reiste by Burzum (plucking two examples of very sparse, repetitive songs that I enjoy out of the air) I think the difference is clear. Mostly in that such music does not actually present a single unchanging beat, but music that changes and builds slowly over time. Hell, my own music uses a lot of repetition. But most of these songs don't even use a complete section of music. It's just one beat.

[diablo_man]

^hmm, wasnt expecting you to use a burzum song as an example of ambient music, but i guess thats what the recent albums are, eh?
yeah, i know what you are saying about the different types of repitition in music. say electric wizard. most of their songs are like 10 minutes long and consist of 5 or less riffs (ididn't actually count, just a guess) yet they dont seem to be as repetative as most mainstream rap is. like in the electric wizard songs, for one thing they are played very loosely by actual live instruments and have an organic quality, in that it doesnt just sound like a loop. other intruments fade in and out, the dynamics change and all that. on the other hand in a lot of rap, there is a main beat and maybe a short melody line. they may have once been live instruments, but after they repeat the one sample throughout the song without any breaks or changes, it sounds pretty damn robotic.
thats a pretty good reason not to like rap, but not all rap is like that.
anyways, dont totally close off from rap, but i see where you are coming from, where you just dont want to dig any deeper. you have to sift through a lot of sand to find gold, but in this case there is hell of a lot of sand.

[De_El]

I don't have a lot of hope, but hey, it's a good song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foEU2WHdOzA (Alphabet Aerobics and Chemical Calisthenics - Blackalicious)
Also: I know Lupe Fiasco was already recommended, but Khar pointed out numerous times he wasn't going to seek the music out on his own, so here's a track, "The Instrumental": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee_DL82rNMU
There was this other, really underground, seldom heard track by Lupe Fiasco...about skateboarding, but I don't know if he'd be able to handle it. *eyes dart back and forth*
What the hell, why not: Brown Skin Lady - Black Star http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JjKhu24QEk

[Beastmouth]

What the hell, why not: Brown Skin Lady - Black Star http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JjKhu24QEk

For the longest time I thought the chorus went, -And everybody on the avenue I knew played the citizen,
but I think this was just paranoia oozing

[20 jazz funk greats]

this sure won't help you like hip-hop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFyvYQkHPd8&NR=1

and neither will this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV1dpMdOzrk

[SilentJ]

this sure won't help you like hip-hop

Read the topic and try again.

read: I honestly thought both of those songs were pretty okay.

[20 jazz funk greats]

i did read the thread, including the part where he claims he's pretty much given up on hip-hop.

also, reverse psychology. 

[Dimmukane]

I know it's probably too late, but he will probably dig Busdriver.  As far as beat progression goes, you're not going to get very far with that anyways, as that's sort of a staple.  But Busdriver is one of the few rappers I can think of who tries to push the boundaries of what rap/hip-hop is.  His style varies from song to song, which is why the link below is his myspace and not a video.  I don't listen to a whole lot of rap as it is (outside of Atmosphere, Lupe Fiasco, and some of the 'classics'), but Busdriver is my favorite.  If this is any indicator, people like to label him as Avantcore, which he later parodies in a song of his. 
Busdriver

[brew]

yeah, i know what you are saying about the different types of repitition in music. say electric wizard. most of their songs are like 10 minutes long and consist of 5 or less riffs (ididn't actually count, just a guess) yet they dont seem to be as repetative as most mainstream rap is. like in the electric wizard songs, for one thing they are played very loosely by actual live instruments and have an organic quality, in that it doesnt just sound like a loop. other intruments fade in and out, the dynamics change and all that. on the other hand in a lot of rap, there is a main beat and maybe a short melody line. they may have once been live instruments, but after they repeat the one sample throughout the song without any breaks or changes, it sounds pretty damn robotic.

Well, the problem is with the idea that "robotic" is a negative thing.  They're supposed to sound like loops.  Asking for them not to be is like saying "give me some rock music that use only a string orchestra, no guitars and no percussion".  It's missing the point.  At least to me, a lot of hip-hop uses time in a different manner than most other styles, and "progression" is not the focus.  If you want to get into it and it sounds foreign, adjust the way you approach musical form instead of asking it to fit your own previous notion.  Kind of applies to any style of music, really.

Here are a couple that may kind of fit into "hip-hop for rock fans" without being completely embarrassing to the point of hip-hop.  The artists have been mentioned before, but I didn't see these songs:
El-P - Deep Space 9mm
Aesop Rock - Daylight

[thegreatbuddha]

Just in case Khar is still checking this, Mr Lif & Insight - Iron Helix.

I Doubt it will change your mind, but the story it tells seems like something you might enjoy.

[onewheelwizzard]

This song has progression!  The beat changes several times and there are several extended melodic lines that change the feel of the song considerably over time.  It's one of my favorites.  Also, it's "smart" enough for Khar, I think.  Name-dropping David Hume and Stephen Jay Gould?  Yes please.

Canibus - Poet Laureate II

[patto]

Wow, this thread totally made my head hurt.

the first 2 pages of suggestions were utter trash. a few people posted decent stuff like ATCQ and De La, which are definitely good places to ease yourself into hip hop.

what i would recommend totally depends on your preferences to music in general. do you like soul and funk music? is your focus primarily on the production or on what is being rhymed by the emcee.

without further adieu, albums i would recommend to a newcomer to ease them into hip hop would be (watch out for your backpacks kids)


Mos Def & Talib Kweli Are: Blackstar.
after a cooling off period, conscious rap was brought back by these two Brooklyn natives. an excellent album for the backpacker elite
Respiration is a highlight


Talib Kweli and DJ Hi-Tek - Reflection Eternal

another great backpack album. the beats on this are great. if "Move Something" or "Down For The Count" doesn't get your head nodding, i don't know what will.



Nas - Illmatic. the greatest hip hop album of all time. written by a 20yo Queensbridge projects native with gritty street observations at a time where overdone gangsta rap was pillaging the airwaves. a breath of fresh air.



Jay-Z - Reasonable Doubt. the cocaine dreamer and tales of hustling and slinging that white. Great beats. Dead Presidents II is one of the highlights.



Wu-Tang Clan - Enter The 36 Chambers.
just fucking phenomenal.

i would post at least 100 albums dude could listen to but i can't be bothered. start there.

[Dimmukane]

Dissing on everyone's taste is a great way to start posting here.

Oh, wait...

[suitupletsgo]

Jay-Z makes me vomit in my mouth a little.

[diablo_man]

lots of big ass pictures.

well damn, now that i know what these albums look like i cant wait to go out and try them! shit they all look so cool, they must make good music, right?
[/bit of sarcasm]

[orangepeas]

Rascalz(from Vancouver,BC)
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=PL3i7zfSonc
http://vikrecordings.com/rascalz/

K'Naan
http://www.myspace.com/knaanmusic 
http://www.thedustyfoot.com/

Swollen Members
http://www.swollenmembers.com
http://www.myspace.com/swollenmembers

Warsaw Pack(disbanded)
 http://www.myspace.com/warsawpack 

Buck 65
 http://www.myspace.com/buck65 
http://www.buck65.com

Sweatshop Union
http://www.myspace.com/sweatshopunion7
http://www.sweatshopunion.com/

yeah, i like supporting Canadian groups.

[Caspian]

This thread is a good example of exactly why closed mindedness and elitism is so much better then the alternative. Khar attempted the open minded path; in the end he wasted a fair bit of his time to no avail. Don't bother forcefully exposing yourself to different genres; listen to the music you like and avoid the music that you don't like. Seems simple enough, really.

[patto]

Dissing on everyone's taste is a great way to start posting here.

Oh, wait...

mediocre underground crews are not the best introduction to hip hop.

oh, wait....

[KickThatBathProf]

What?

You're doin it wrong

[patto]

Binary Star and most Ann Arbor artists are very decent as well.

[brew]

This thread is a good example of exactly why closed mindedness and elitism is so much better then the alternative. Khar attempted the open minded path; in the end he wasted a fair bit of his time to no avail.

Of course it was to no avail if he was going to judge it by the same standards he judges other music.  "Man, classical sucks, where are the guitar riffz?"

[Caspian]

This thread is a good example of exactly why closed mindedness and elitism is so much better then the alternative. Khar attempted the open minded path; in the end he wasted a fair bit of his time to no avail.

Of course it was to no avail if he was going to judge it by the same standards he judges other music.  "Man, classical sucks, where are the guitar riffz?"

Classical has riffs, even if they're not played on guitar.

Rap/Hip Hop doesn't, and that's one of the reasons why it's not good, certainly.

[öde]

Swollen Members

Swollen Members are absolute shit now.

[KharBevNor]

I've heard Jay-Z and Wu-Tang, didn't like them, won't be downloading your suggestions, get off your horse, etc.

[suitupletsgo]

I love these hip-hop sucks people. it's always good for a good laugh or 50.

[Dimmukane]

Dissing on everyone's taste is a great way to start posting here.

Oh, wait...

mediocre underground crews are not the best introduction to hip hop.

oh, wait....

He was asking for hip-hop that had some iota of progression. 

[orangepeas]

Swollen Members

Swollen Members are absolute shit now.

hehe

[KharBevNor]

I'm judging hip-hop by the same standards I judge the other music I listen to. Like, you know, Coil, Art of Noise, Laibach, Alien Sex Fiend, Blood Axis, Neuroticfish, and all the other tons of electronic music, often repetitive, with monotone vocals and lots of sampling, that I listen to. And rap is just boring as all hell compared to that stuff.

Don't even see how you could dance to half the stuff here.

[orangepeas]

 

[Rigor_Mortis]

Here's one that'll totally destroy errr umm, Invigorate you with faith in hip-hop and cRAP!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19XmNXeAvIg

And yes, she is dead serious.

[Jamoky]

I know you said you gave up. And I know its 9 minutes long, but you should totally listen to the whole thing anyway.
its much more composed than your average rap song, it has the build up you were asking for, the lyrics are not political, nor about how many money rappers make.  The bit in the middle might come off as trying to hard to be deep, but the imagery in the lyrics is solid, and beat is is pleasant.

http://www.last.fm/music/Blackalicious/_/Release

[brew]

Of course it was to no avail if he was going to judge it by the same standards he judges other music.  "Man, classical sucks, where are the guitar riffz?"

If he has to lower his quality standards to listen to rap it probably isn't worth it.

Asking for guitar riffz in classical music is lowering your quality standards?

I'm judging hip-hop by the same standards I judge the other music I listen to. Like, you know, Coil, Art of Noise, Laibach, Alien Sex Fiend, Blood Axis, Neuroticfish, and all the other tons of electronic music, often repetitive, with monotone vocals and lots of sampling, that I listen to.

Yeah, a bunch of music made by white people.

[Caspian]

I'm judging hip-hop by the same standards I judge the other music I listen to. Like, you know, Coil, Art of Noise, Laibach, Alien Sex Fiend, Blood Axis, Neuroticfish, and all the other tons of electronic music, often repetitive, with monotone vocals and lots of sampling, that I listen to.

Yeah, a bunch of music made by white people.

What kind of terrible, useless point is that? Are you saying black people and white people AREN'T the same? Are you a RACIST?

[brew]

I'm judging hip-hop by the same standards I judge the other music I listen to. Like, you know, Coil, Art of Noise, Laibach, Alien Sex Fiend, Blood Axis, Neuroticfish, and all the other tons of electronic music, often repetitive, with monotone vocals and lots of sampling, that I listen to.

Yeah, a bunch of music made by white people.

What kind of terrible, useless point is that? Are you saying black people and white people AREN'T the same? Are you a RACIST?

Sounds like KharBevNor is, given his tastes and attitude.

Historically, black people in the US have developed a partially separate culture than whites due to the way they were treated.  This culture has obviously affected their musical style, including what aspects of the music are responsible for the music's emotional impact (any separation in culture can affect this).  Naturally, approaching and interpreting hip-hop by comparing it to how British industrial artists make their music effective is misguided.

Again, it's like expecting "guitar riffs" in classical music.  You said "classical has riffs", and that goes with my point: what makes "riffs" inherently a good thing?  They just happened to be part of the music you grew up with and are therefore familiar to you.  And why do "riffs" overtake "guitar" in importance?  There are plenty of young rockers who only enjoy distorted guitar music, so that guitars have become a part of the standards in which they approach music.  And we can all see that if they approach classical with the notion of guitars being the main effective form of musical technique, and then reject it based on those grounds, seemingly ignorant that classical is not based on distorted guitar, it would be kind of silly.  Why not the same for hip-hop and riffs (and similar such standards)?

[KharBevNor]

I love classical.

What the hell is going on here?

[0bsessions]

Rockist.