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[jimbunny]

To Tommy: Though, along those lines, people may harbor the thought that during a potential sexual assault, they might begin to enjoy it. Perhaps this thought arises from a past experience of rape in which they did become aroused (applying the important distinction between physical arousal and emotional enjoyment, raised earlier). Thus, they might in hindsight confuse their arousal with enjoyment, causing an identity crisis. To reclaim the identity which became aroused, they might imaginatively recreate the scenario, in which they, this time, while in control of their identity, become aroused (to what extent they could possibly enjoy such a fantasy is supremely questionable). So as to try and reconcile the event in their mind.

I'm just trying to offer up an explanation that makes sense to me. Whether or not it's true, and certainly whether or not the fantasy proposed here is a healthy coping mechanism can't be answered by me. Hiiiiiighly speculative.

[morca007]

I swear this is the only serious post I will make in this thread:
Anyone who makes any sort of "x makes you do/think x" claim and can't back it up with reliable peer reviewed research is talking out of their ass.

[muteKi]

20 J.F.G.:

Of course, the point is that in actual rape this really isn't possible, so while in the situation you described most would agree that acting in such a way isn't wrong, communication and rules in rape pretty much by definition are nonexistent.

If all one had to go with is that "Oh, he probably has a cuckold fetish and thus secretly DOES want me to go out and have sex with other men," then it I think most would agree that doing so IS wrong.

[KharBevNor]

I know people who have sexual fantasies about being murdered or executed, why is the idea of people who fantasise about being raped so hard to swallow?

[20 jazz funk greats]

20 J.F.G.:

Of course, the point is that in actual rape this really isn't possible, so while in the situation you described most would agree that acting in such a way isn't wrong, communication and rules in rape pretty much by definition are nonexistent.

If all one had to go with is that "Oh, he probably has a cuckold fetish and thus secretly DOES want me to go out and have sex with other men," then it I think most would agree that doing so IS wrong.

i kind of went on an unrelated tangent about cuckolding in that last post.
but.... people who HAVE rape fantasies usually want to act on them in a very specific way (ie, tommy's example about his ex girlfriend)
thus it becomes role-playing of rape, instead of actual rape.
and that follows certain rules.
now do i need to explain role playing?   

[Slick]

I've seen that DVD at Tania's house.

that dvd actually belongs to my creepy pervert lesbian housemates.

I slept in one of their beds! And lost a sock!

Obviously her lesbian bed consumed my sock for it's matter and converted it into soft-core porn.

[calenlass]

My fiancee and I once saw it on the "New Releases" rack in a Blockbuster. I don't know if the clerks did it on purpose as a joke, or if they genuinely didn't realize they were stocking a porn.

It's technically not a porn. Well, it is, but it's softcore, which is totally legal in most states. There's no penetration, see. The video store I work at has a ton on of newer playboy releases, which are just naked ladies bouncing around. We get a lot of phone calls asking if we carry porn, and it's incredibly awkward trying to describe the difference in a sort of roundabout way, because saying "there's no penetration" at work just seems wrong.

Um I own this on dvd and I can personally say that having watched all of it through several times* that there is quite a lot of penetration.

*Incidentally, for Zombie-and-Porno night with friends at my old uni.


Also, I am not really sure I should be admitting this, but I have rape fantasies from time to time. I have never suffered abuse or rape itself. The "me" in my head is not always the victim, either, and now that I think about it I would probably say it is more playing around with dominance and submissive things in my head than anything, but that doesn't change the fact that I would say some of them are definitely about rape.

[Slick]

I can't say I've ever had rape fantasies, but I can't see it being impossible.
I mean, I've gotten in certain moods where I just feel like being hit by a car, sometimes because I want to be hurt, sometimes because I feel like I deserve it, sometimes because I want to have an excuse to be out of commission, and sometimes just because I want to have someone to be seriously fucking mad at with good reason.
As well, I think fantasies of violence are not entirely uncommon. It's not that much of a stretch, really.

Besides, man, have you ever met people? They are, like, all kinds of screwed up. I can see how the words 'rape fantasy' could be incorrectly used, but I can see how they could be correctly used.

[Fenriswolf]

I know people who have sexual fantasies about being murdered or executed, why is the idea of people who fantasise about being raped so hard to swallow?

Probably because women are raped daily, existing as female carries a risk of rape and thus it's something very close to home for a lot of women. Somewhat more likely to actually happen to you than a violent murder.

I know people who have sexual fantasies about being murdered or executed, why is the idea of people who fantasise about being raped so hard to swallow?

I am sure people fully believe they have rape fantasies and I'm sure you believe them.

My sole point is that I don't think it really counts as rape because they are complicit. I think it constitutes misuse of the term rape if they want it to happen.

I don't blame anyone for being confused, it's at the extreme end of semantics.

Of course it's not actually rape. It's called rape because that's what they're playing out. For example, woman who has been sexually assaulted is once again comfortable with her body and consensual sex but still panics sometimes when she feels constricted/during hard sex. They want to work through their feelings by simulating a non-consensual experience whilst having complete control.

it may be slightly more common than you think

but would those women still have those kinds of fantasies if rape/aggression towards women wasn't so commonly portrayed in porn in the first place? people are influenced by what they watch.

Possibly not, but I suspect you're coming at this from a different angle from me. I think rape fantasies may be made more common by the fact that rape is so common, that it's constantly in the news, borderline non-consent is portrayed as hilarious often on TV and the internet and yes, sex is shown in a really unbalanced light in porn. Hence some women want to reclaim their bodies by ripping the heart out of the whole concept with consensual consent-play.

I can't help but believe the 'women have rape fantasies' theory is (potentially?) harmful. For one reason or another (idle curiosity, feminist girlfriends, secret history in a riot grrrl band etc) I've spent a lot of time reading and talking about the continuously horrific rape statistics in the western world and beyond. Every time I talk about this, someone brings up these supposed 'rape fantasies'. However, I have personally never met anyone who actually admits to having fantasies about being raped. Not any of my friends or indeed any of the of women I have been in a relationship with. I can't help but think the amount of airtime the 'rape fantasies' concept gets is a serious fuck you to all the women who have been raped in the time it took me to formulate this post (probably hundreds worldwide).

To clarify for Joe Hocking - I think it's dangerous for any male to believe that a woman might secretly want him to rape her.

That's a great quote. And I agree - when I first stumbled upon rape porn on the internet my co-worker was quick to point out that lots of women have rape fantasies. As someone who probably has PTSD not from being raped but from knowledge of my mother's gang rape and her attempt to protect me from the world it was a concept I honestly couldn't grasp for a long time (and in that context was wrong wrong wrong but I was younger and more impressionable).

I have discussed with my mother the revolting feeling that while you hate it your body responds. Myself I am so fucked up by it that I couldn't even say the word rape until I was about 15 and the scene in Crash where the cop sticks his fingers up the black woman's skirt basically gave me a panic attack. Yet I find myself simultaneously homicidally angry and somewhat aroused by rape scenes in books - something that makes me want to vomit, and my brain shies away from but if I am honest it's there. So I can see why some people might do that

Finally, I cannot remember the web address but I used to read a blog by a couple into BDSM who would sometimes play at rape scenes. The guy was the dom, I really liked both of them. They were funny and open and generally seemed like the kind of people I would really like. I asked them how they could do that and he said that it's a really good question and it's quite a scary experience and he'd answer later when he had time for a proper reply. Unfortunately the blog was in the process of dying so I never got my reply but I found that very interesting

Sorry for my rambling, that's just my 2c

[Dimmukane]

When they say no penetration, they mean no man/woman bits visible.  You'll see topless women who are clearly going through the motions with the guy, but the cameras are placed so the actual coitus is not visible.  This is so as to get under the R rating so it'll be carried in most rental stores, possibly increasing their sales.  As far as porn goes, that one was pretty high-budget, and they're trying to profit from it as much as possible.

For zombie-and-porno, I suggest Dellamorte Dellamore (or as it's known stateside, Cemetary Man), it's a zombie movie involving necrophilia with what some people consider the hottest chick ever in a non-pornographic industry movie.  It was also Martin Scoresese's favorite movie of 1994.  It's got zombies and titties, but it's more of a dark comedy than anything else.  

Even if you're not looking for a zombie-porno, it's a pretty good movie.

[Slick]

Alright who's watching this in Toronto?

[tania]

i'll pass.

[0bsessions]

Guys I just downloaded and watched Pirates for the purpose of education re: this thread, and there is definitely explicitly displayed fuckin'.

Maybe you silly Americans are watching the wrong version.

Where did you find it? I need it for...research purposes...

[Fenriswolf]

Pirates? As in it's just called Pirates or what? I would search for if I could be bothered...

[Dimmukane]

Yeah, the version I saw definitely was not that explicit.  Damned censors/christian-owned rental stores.

[sean]

Maybe you silly Americans are watching the wrong version.

I looked on imdb. The american version is like, 40 mintues shorter or something like that.

Laaaaaaaaaame.

[morca007]

Only good part about that movie is the hilarious CGI skeleton battle.

[BrittanyMarie]

UK:18R / USA:Not Rated / UK:18 (edited version) / USA:R (edited version)

I didn't realize there was an R rated one and a Not Rated one. My store and probably that Blockbuster both carry the R verson. In most of the other softcore ones we have, they're just pretending to do it.

I am also fairly certain the only movies that have real bonin' going on that you can see are Brown Bunny and Shortbus, because they are art films and technically not pornography. Still NC-17 though

[KvP]

Oh, there are lots of art films with actual fuckin' in them. I think the Dreamers was one of them, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

[tania]

you can find pirates on any torrent site pretty easily.

everyone in here already knows my thoughts on porn (obviously) but as far as pornography goes and from the first half of the film i did manage to get through it's actually pretty decent. there's a plot, and sometimes the characters say things like "last night i dreamt my cock was a tri-masted spanish galleon." amazing.

[Dimmukane]

I took it up to a friend's house and we only got halfway through because of the terrible lines.  That, and this really obnoxious girl (also unfortunately ugly) whom no one invited decided to let everyone know how horny she was every 5 minutes, so we gave up and watched Ong-Bak instead to shut her up.

[tania]

is that the film where the dude beats up another dude with his knees

[Jimmy the Squid]

And elbows.

[Tom]

Oh, there are lots of art films with actual fuckin' in them. I think the Dreamers was one of them, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

Before the Devil Knows You're Dead is all LOL BUTTSECKS at the start but there is no visible "penetration".

[Jimmy the Squid]

So I guess "rape simulation" or "rape roleplay" would more precise terms, given that the basic idea isn't actually being raped, but pretending to be?

According to Masters and Johnson, womens' rape fantasies have a lot to do with guilt.  The theory is that even in today's society, some women are still ashamed of their sexuality.  Subconsciously, by fantasizing about themselves in the role of a victim, they don't have to feel "dirty" for having sex. 

It's just a theory, of course, and I read it in an older book.  It puts an interesting perspective on the matter though. 

This theory doesn't really surprise me all that much. Consider that even in a modern, Western society where people are supposedy free there is still an extremely sex-negative culture. A lot of this stems from religion, many of which out and out decry any sexual behaviour that isn't 1) within a church sanctioned marriage and 2) in the missionary position. There is still the double standard that males are expected to be "promiscuous", have a wealth of sexual experience by the time they are married or at the very least there is more of a tolerance for male sexual behaviour whereas females are expected to have no sexual desire until after marriage and even then it is to be limited to procreative sex only. This is pretty obvious in the media where even in shows like Scrubs there are lines like "Oh my god, I can't believe you're getting married! Just think, you'll only have to have sex when you actually want to!" To me this line says a lot about the assumption that women do not actually enjoy sex for pretty much most of the time. It's particularly visible among teenagers and younger adults with the double standard of the male "player" and the female equivalent "slut" (neither of which I particularly agree with).

Rape fantasies however are just fantasies of sexual domination/submission. They may take the form of roleplaying dominative or forceful sex but, as has been mentioned above, they are not actual rapings because obviously there is no real loss of control on the part of the person being "raped." I do agree that simply calling them rape fantasies does trivialise the experiences of rape victims, however arguments of semantics are, all in all, a bit pointless. 

[E. Spaceman]

Regarding films with actual boning, there are quite a few, depending on hat you mean by actual boning.
Most of the ones i've seen lately are unfathomably bad hough. Ken Park had a lot of sex and it is the biggest piece of shit movie i have ever seen, including several "so bad it's good but actually it is so crap" and "Dune".

[20 jazz funk greats]

Rape fantasies however are just fantasies of sexual domination/submission. They may take the form of roleplaying dominative or forceful sex but, as has been mentioned above, they are not actual rapings because obviously there is no real loss of control on the part of the person being "raped." I do agree that simply calling them rape fantasies does trivialise the experiences of rape victims, however arguments of semantics are, all in all, a bit pointless. 

errrrr,  there is more to rape fantasies than wanting to be sexually submissive.
rape roleplay is about FORCING someone into submission, and simulating a real loss of control.
i mean, obviously that is a hard thing to act out but it's possible.

does this masters and johnson theory have anything to say about MEN that fantasize about getting raped?
it's all hurrrr women do not feel comfortable with their sexual desires and therefore want to reinforce their own feelings of guilt about them hurrr.
seems a bit outdated to me. but hey, what do i know, i'm a girl,  and that clearly indicates i don't like non-procreative sex.  

[Jimmy the Squid]

No you are right there is more to it then just domination/submission but at its core that's what the rape fantasy is albeit taken to a rather extreme level.

However it cannot truly be forcing someone into anything if they want to be forced. And considering that I've gone out with a girl who has rape fantasies I can say, in at least that one case, there is no actual loss of control. The situation is proscribed to a significant degree by the submissive individual (especially when the dominator is pretty uncomfortable about the whole thing) beforehand with rules in place that put the submissive individual in a position of complete control under a thin veneer of helplessness.

Basically, SEX IS A LIE!

[jhocking]

I didn't realize there was an R rated one and a Not Rated one. My store and probably that Blockbuster both carry the R verson. In most of the other softcore ones we have, they're just pretending to do it.

Oh I didn't think of that. I actually knew that's pretty common, for porn makers to cut a softcore version of the film too, but I forgot. I remember reading an interview with a porn editor. He explained that while filming porns they also film special camera angles to use in the softcore edit, where the penetration is blocked by a plant or something.

[20 jazz funk greats]

No you are right there is more to it then just domination/submission but at its core that's what the rape fantasy is albeit taken to a rather extreme level.

However it cannot truly be forcing someone into anything if they want to be forced. And considering that I've gone out with a girl who has rape fantasies I can say, in at least that one case, there is no actual loss of control. The situation is proscribed to a significant degree by the submissive individual (especially when the dominator is pretty uncomfortable about the whole thing) beforehand with rules in place that put the submissive individual in a position of complete control under a thin veneer of helplessness.

Basically, SEX IS A LIE!

i know i know.
from personal experience, not the internet.
in fact it can be argued that the submissive always has more control than the dominant because they are the ones that can stop the scene at any time but i will not get into that argument here. not yet, anyway.   

[RedLion]

I know people who have sexual fantasies about being murdered or executed, why is the idea of people who fantasise about being raped so hard to swallow?

I am sure people fully believe they have rape fantasies and I'm sure you believe them.

My sole point is that I don't think it really counts as rape because they are complicit. I think it constitutes misuse of the term rape if they want it to happen.

I don't blame anyone for being confused, it's at the extreme end of semantics.

No, I understand what you're getting at, and I agree completely. By definition, rape is forced on one of the parties; it's absolutely and completely without any kind of consent. So fantasizing about "rape" is much different than actually fantasizing about really being raped, since the individual has obviously given themselves a sort of mental consent to do so.

[Barmymoo]

I swear this is the only serious post I will make in this thread:
Anyone who makes any sort of "x makes you do/think x" claim and can't back it up with reliable peer reviewed research is talking out of their ass.

This part of the conversation seems to have been smothered by a new tangent but I'm going to try and drag it out again.

We've been studying media violence in Sociology lately, and we've read a lot of conflicting theories that looked at the effects of media violence on young children. It's not quite the same thing as porn and not the same audience but presumably the same theory applies. Some of the studies found that watching violent films increased aggressiveness. Some found it didn't have an effect. Some found it decreased aggressiveness. I suppose the basic answer to be drawn from these studies is that a) it's hard to get a conclusive result from a laboratory-based experiment or b) different people respond in different ways to violence.

One thing we agreed on in class was that people who are not totally repulsed by violence are more likely to watch violent films, and to commit violence themselves, than people who hate it. That isn't to say that someone who likes to watch The Chainsaw Massacre (for example) is automatically going to go and kill people, but it's fairly safe to say that if you can't stand the idea of violence, you're neither going to enjoy watching nor committing it. The same probably goes for rape and sexual assault, although I don't have anything to back up this theory.

[Oli]

Recently I did an essay about censorship of video nasties* in the Thatcher era and the general consensus I gleamed from the sources I used was that video violence was, if anything, a catalyst rather than a cause. By that I mean if you're predisposed to violence watching a violent film could drive you to commit a violent act but watching a violent film is not in itself making you a violent person. Think straw that broke the camels back (or perhaps a rather more apt comparison).

I think it's a very small leap from the way video violence (bearing in mind that includes sexual violence) affects people to the way porn (and even more closely violent porn) is likely to affect people.


*According to the report Video Violence and Children (One of my main sources) Video Nasties are “Feature films that contained scenes of such violence and sadism involving either human beings or animals that they would not be granted a certificate by the British Board of Film Censors (BBFC) for general release for public exhibition in Britain”. The term includes films like the evil dead, I spit on your grave and driller killer.

[Ozymandias]

There's a book that recently came out that I really need to read called Grand Theft Childhood that shows a correlation between not playing violent video games and feelings of aggression. It also shows a correlation between playing too many violent video games and feelings of aggression.

And when you stop and think about it, it starts to make sense. Very aggressive and sometimes violent games have been in human societies for millennia. Other primates fight each other for fun when they're bored. Isn't it plausible that this was an instinctual device not just to train themselves to fight, but also to release aggression in a safer manner than actual violence? If someone isn't releasing their violent tendencies, it can build up into something worse. If they're overdoing that release, it's a symptom of a very violent person to begin with.

Like I said, though, I haven't actually read the book or its sources, but thinking about that, it made sense...

[Darkbluerabbit]

The most violence-prone girl I know didn't even grow up with a TV.  She read a lot of Sci-Fi though. 

does this masters and johnson theory have anything to say about MEN that fantasize about getting raped?
it's all hurrrr women do not feel comfortable with their sexual desires and therefore want to reinforce their own feelings of guilt about them hurrr.
seems a bit outdated to me. but hey, what do i know, i'm a girl,  and that clearly indicates i don't like non-procreative sex. 

Like I said, it was an older book.  Late 80s, I think.  But, if you think that women don't still receive negative messages about being sexual, then I envy the world you live in. 

They did indeed make a point about men, but it had to do with being raped by another male.  Some of the men they spoke to (they do a lot of interview based studies) who identified as straight said that they had fantasies about homosexual rape.  Again, M&J theorized that they felt ashamed of having homosexual fantasies and had to put it in the context of forced sex to take the "blame" off of themselves. 

[Ozymandias]

There's a reason that men are players and women are hoes.

That reason is that our society sucks.

[20 jazz funk greats]

does this masters and johnson theory have anything to say about MEN that fantasize about getting raped?
it's all hurrrr women do not feel comfortable with their sexual desires and therefore want to reinforce their own feelings of guilt about them hurrr.
seems a bit outdated to me. but hey, what do i know, i'm a girl,  and that clearly indicates i don't like non-procreative sex. 

Like I said, it was an older book.  Late 80s, I think.  But, if you think that women don't still receive negative messages about being sexual, then I envy the world you live in. 

They did indeed make a point about men, but it had to do with being raped by another male.  Some of the men they spoke to (they do a lot of interview based studies) who identified as straight said that they had fantasies about homosexual rape.  Again, M&J theorized that they felt ashamed of having homosexual fantasies and had to put it in the context of forced sex to take the "blame" off of themselves. 

no, i don't think they don't receive them at all.
i do think they're capable of not letting said messages influence their lives though. 
but maybe that is just craaaazy talk on my part.

i meant men that fantasize about getting raped by women.
yes, an extreme minority, but they do exist and i am not sure why they weren't taken into account while these interviews were being conducted.

[Ozymandias]

Gender equality means putting really thick shoulder pads in your clothes while remaining subservient in a male dominated society.

[calenlass]

Don't forget the hairdos.

[Patrick]

God the porn was atrocious this decade, who the fuck let them have storylines?

[Fenriswolf]

There's a reason that men are players and women are hoes.

That reason is that our society sucks.

I really cannot be bothered reading all the replies since my last post right now so I'll just say... Nice 

[MadassAlex]

I like porn! I think it is, in its most basic form, a fairly healthy display of exhibitionism with very few negative effects. I am very much in support of people putting their sexual experiences on camera and not only because I can't get laid.

However.

I think the problem right now is that just about all studio porn sucks. Sorry guys, I am totally not interested in hearing about how hard some ugly tattooed jockfuckcunt is going to dominate some chick and I'm even less interested in how this jockfuckcunt is going to invariably cum on her over-made-up face. At worst its just degrading to women and at best its goddamned unappealing.
I mean occasionally you will find a gem of "clean" hardcore porn as I call it, where the dude simply just fucks the chick without any of the bullshit dirty talk and stuff. But most of that kind of porn is Japanese, I seriously have never seen Japanese porn (that isn't hentai) that includes half the bullshit that western porn does (except bukkake but that's a reaction to pornography laws).
It's like, the people involved actually partake of actions that are genuinely erotic without being domineering or subservient.

Japanese porn reminds me of amateur porn without the low quality camera, actually. Which is always preferable to western studio porn.

tl;dr: What the fuck, Porn Industry; the Japanese get it right yet again; hooray for the indie scene!

[jhocking]

There's a book that recently came out that I really need to read called Grand Theft Childhood that shows a correlation between not playing violent video games and feelings of aggression. It also shows a correlation between playing too many violent video games and feelings of aggression.

I bet there are also correlations between watching C-Span and feelings of aggression, eating breakfast and feelings of aggression, and exposure to avante garde poetry and feelings of aggression. Just generally, people have a lot of pent up aggression.

[Jimmy the Squid]

I'm pretty sure that people who have violent inclinations like violent things. It would be pretty silly to say that playing violent video games or watching violent films or listening to violent music makes people (who would otherwise be totally placid and friendly) behave violently. Obviously this is the argument that a lot of people make but surely no clear-thinking person would think that someone who is naturally non-violent would be interested in a videogame where you are rewarded for shooting people in the face or a film where a woman is violently degraded.

I actually enjoy porn, as long as it is straight-up chicks sitting on cakes fucking. I really don't want to see anyone being degraded, I just want to have a completely trashy orgasm and get on with my day.

I may have been reading a lot of Achewood today...

[Patrick]

Dude violent video games give me such great stress relief. I'd be tempted to just get an XBox 360, CoD4, and some recording equipment this summer instead of a new computer. That way, when I have a shitty day at work, I'll be able to blow the faces off of bitches who are shooting at me, and I'll feel better.

[Jimmy the Squid]

Oh yeah, I totally have violent tendencies. I mean, when I have a bad day at the call centre (everyday is a bad day when you work in a call centre) I have the option of coming home and stewing about it while I wonder what to make for dinner or I can dress up like a ninja, throw on some Incantation and curbstomp some fools on Gears of War and you just know which one I'm going to choose. However, if I were a calm and placid dude I would just chill out on the couch with some Skulker or maybe watch some MASH while eating a Kit-Kat.

[Ozymandias]

I bet there are also correlations between watching C-Span and feelings of aggression, eating breakfast and feelings of aggression, and exposure to avante garde poetry and feelings of aggression. Just generally, people have a lot of pent up aggression.

The point was that it was actually significantly less pronounced in the healthy middle between not playing and playing too much.

Also, there is hell of a correlation between C-Span and violence.

[Oli]

surely no clear-thinking person would think that someone who is naturally non-violent would be interested in a videogame where you are rewarded for shooting people in the face or a film where a woman is violently degraded.

I'm a completely non-violent person. I've been a pacifist since I was old enough to consider it and I've not physically hurt anyone - excluding accidents and when I used to play rugby - since I was a nipper. In short, I absolutely abhor violence. At the same time however I enjoy video games such as GTA, CoD4 and a host of other games which involve simulated harm towards pixels as well as extremely violent films and literature.

I am entirely able to see the distinction between simulated/fictional violence and real violence. Saying that only people with violent tendencies (even if they never act on them in the real world) can enjoy violent media is nonsense.

One of my favourite novels is American Psycho and I'm entirely certain that I appreciate it for reasons other than a means of catharsis that stops me turning into Patrick bateman.

[20 jazz funk greats]

I mean occasionally you will find a gem of "clean" hardcore porn as I call it, where the dude simply just fucks the chick without any of the bullshit dirty talk and stuff. But most of that kind of porn is Japanese, I seriously have never seen Japanese porn (that isn't hentai) that includes half the bullshit that western porn does (except bukkake but that's a reaction to pornography laws).
It's like, the people involved actually partake of actions that are genuinely erotic without being domineering or subservient.

1) no dirty talk? right i am sure everything that is being said to those girls is perfectly polite and respectful. i mean i don't know japanese or anything but they can't possibly be going against any assumptions we may have about their culture.
2)  japanese porn is worse than western porn when it comes to being degrading and if you don't think so you have obviously not seen enough of it.  the crying schoolgirl theme is quite prevalent.
3) like, no. not at all.  so much of the stuff they come up with is the polar opposite of erotic.

[Ozymandias]

Japanese hardcore is very good at making me feel vaguely uncomfortable about if the girl meant to be there or not.