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Author Topic: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing  (Read 17962 times)

fatty

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #50 on: 02 May 2008, 21:45 »

Hey Maiada
I understand and appreciate that you did not intend for this to be a full on discussion about ethics and environment. However, like I said, I was trying to point out that oversimplification of those issues is too easy to accept.

Poverty is only a serious problem when the necessities of life aren't available cheaply and conveniently.

Just a note, I think you getting mixed up here. The term 'poverty' usually refers to either relative or absolute poverty. Relatively poverty is what we're usually talking about - one's means in relation to the costs of living in one's area. Absolute poverty means that one is severely deprived of the basic needs for living including food, shelter, health, sanitation etc. Relative poverty, which is what we are usually talking about, means one is living below the relative poverty threshold, usually less than 50% of the median income.

So poverty reflects the purchasing power of individuals in a certain economy, not whether the economy is doing well or its goods are 'cheap' compared to other countries.
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Barmymoo

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #51 on: 03 May 2008, 04:10 »

I think the word I should really have used is "poorness" but I'm not sure that's a real word.

What I was trying to say (probably badly) was that if all countries had free education, health care and unemployment benefits (real free health care, not like the NHS's pretend free health care) then it would be less of a vitally pressing issue for people with not much money to get money.

Turn that on its head and I was saying that the real problem isn't people without any money, it's people without any money who will die due to that lack of money. I think that's what you're calling absolute poverty, yes?

Anyway returning to the subject of ethical clothing, I've always wanted to make my own clothes. I'm terrible at sewing, but maybe one day I'll learn how to properly. The problem then would be making sure that the cloth was not made in explotative factories.

Also, what do you guys think about buying local? Other than the obvious environmental factors of not having to ship food, clothes etc hundreds of miles, would you say it was better to buy things from people living in a developed nation or better to support fair trade products in order to help people living in less developed nations?
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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #52 on: 03 May 2008, 10:17 »

My experience of AA is that they make decent clothes. Aside from the guy that owns the company and the sketchy advertising, I don't really see the problem.

I'm sorry I don't want to make a sexist, racist arsehole rich! It is a failing I know. I guess I can never enjoy a comfortable t-shirt.
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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #53 on: 03 May 2008, 11:00 »

I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up making my own clothes in the future.
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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #54 on: 03 May 2008, 13:59 »

I've found a problem of late is a lot of places calling themselves fair-trade because they provide fair wages to those from whom they buy. That is only a part of fair-trade, and I dislike companies using the title when they are not fair-trade certified by IFAT (international federation of alternative trade-i believe). Providing fair wages IS important, but what people need is sustainability. Are these companies comitted to continuing trade with their suppliers? Are the suppliers using ecologically sustainable methods to provide the product? All these things are factored in when one goes for a fair-trade certificate. I don't think it's right for other companies, who are, I will grant them, on the path to fair-trade, to use the phrase without the certification. It misleads consumers, most of whom don't know about IFAT and certification.
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Lines

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #55 on: 03 May 2008, 14:39 »

A lot people, including myself, have major issues with how Walmart treats its employees, so I honestly don't care if they have eco friendly apparel.

Though yes, it would be nice to buy fair trade, etc. clothing, realistically, I don't have the money for it. I also wear things until they crap out and considering I spend my money on mostly durable clothing that is not costly, I don't shop very often. Those shoes on Simple Shoes are really cute, but they are too expensive, or I would definitely buy pair, as I really like funky shoes. I'm glad that Saucony isn't questionable, however, as I really like their shoes.
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Darkbluerabbit

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #56 on: 03 May 2008, 16:47 »

I was watching TV with my sister a while ago and saw a Wal-Mart commercial where they were claiming to be "eco-friendly."  The message was basically "Look!  Wal-Mart sells compact fluorescent lightbulbs!  We're so GREEN!"

I think a part of me died that day. 
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Ozymandias

Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #57 on: 03 May 2008, 16:54 »

To be fair, they actually have been pushing energy saving bulbs really, really hard.
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ThePQ4

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #58 on: 03 May 2008, 17:56 »

...I am choosing not to address the Wal-Mart remark. As an employee, it's best, I think.

Anyway, I started looking at some of the links, and while there are a few things on there i like (in particular a couple of cute skirts I could wear for work!) they do not make them in fat-girl sizes... So much for -that-... and I really wanted the pixie skirt I found. :(


Edit: Screw the clothes...I went onto the Vegetarian Shoes and the Simple shoe sites....goddamn it. I fell in love with like four pairs of boots/shoes today. And I really shouldn't (really shouldn't!) buy them...but they're so pretty... The ones I want from VS would cost me 149 USD (including shipping, I ran it through a converter). ::cries:: The SS ones would be more like $80+ shipping... Being eco-friendly is expensive.
« Last Edit: 03 May 2008, 19:30 by ThePQ4 »
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Slick

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #59 on: 03 May 2008, 18:06 »

Energy saving lightbulbs: Good.
Acting like one small thing makes up for being dicks: Not Good.
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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #60 on: 03 May 2008, 18:13 »

So you've got a hybrid SUV to make your daily commute more eco-friendly? GREAT!

Now, please also:
-compost
-turn your wasteful grass lawn partially into vegetables
-seriously, grass is a big fucking waste of resources, it's needy and useless
-and then you could stop buying stuff from mexico all the time?
-gardening is dead simple. I mean, there is work, but it is not a lot of work after the planting. If your community had a rototiller it'd just be, like, an afternoon or two of labour, then watering/weeding once a week. You can do it!
-turn down your air conditioning
-convince your company to turn off the goddamned lights at night
-like, that's a waste of energy. Don't blame the company, be an agent of change. You're part of it
-come one wallmart, I bet you leave lights on over night
-there ain't no such thing as a free lunch


(this is trying to draw a parallel to the light bulb thing)
(if you missed that)
(I am saying one good deed is good but it will not save the world so don't feel that much better, OK??)
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ThePQ4

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #61 on: 03 May 2008, 19:39 »

-come one wallmart, I bet you leave lights on over night

Well...most wal-marts are open 24 hrs. now, so they kind of have to keep the lights on...and when the store -is- closed, the only lights on are security lights.

I was talking w/ one of my CSMs just yesterday, and he mentioned that our electricity bill at the store is like $2000 a month(!!), but when you factor in the fact that we're open 24 hrs. a day, run 20+ registers for at least 15 of those hrs, and have various powered implements in our deli and hardware sections that need to be run for long periods each day, it kind of makes sense that it's so high. We can't exactly expect people to shop in the dark.

Anyway, it's Corporate Headquarters that makes those kinds of decisions anyway, so my peon-ish managers couldn't really do much in the way of conserving more electricty, even if they wanted (although, I think it would help if dimmed our lights a bit, and shut off lights in the food cases during down-hours, and stuff like that).

I'm sure the electricity bill was much higher before we put in the motion-sensor lighting in our freezers, and turned on the lights in the coke-fridges/machines. At least a little bit of effort has been made, I guess.
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Darkbluerabbit

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #62 on: 03 May 2008, 20:58 »

I was recently told at work that I should stop shutting my computer down when we close.  Apparently, the energy it wastes makes up for precious seconds I lose booting the computer back up when I arrive.  Of course, without rebooting my computer gets slower and slower by the day, which delays everything I do.  God I hate my company. 
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MiltonHorton

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #63 on: 03 May 2008, 21:41 »

I hope the following doesn't come off as self-promotion. I've spent the better part of a year working on an environmental book, 50 Simple Things You Can Do to Save the Earth, and the last month setting up a companion web site. To be honest with you, the web site is still a work in progress, but we've got a lot of useful (I hope) information on just what you all are talking about: what makes consumer products sustainable (clothing, food, household cleaners, et al)? And where can you get them? And how can you afford them? And it's all complicated by "greenwash"; industries and advertisers making claims to be "green," which are false or misleading. Plus, even if you're totally committed to changing your ways, exactly how are you supposed to accomplish that? As you noted, when Wal Mart is the best source of sustainable clothing you can find, how do you come to terms with that? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Anyway, here is the link to the issue we call the "Green Marketplace": http://www.50simplethings.com/market/index.html. Click on the "view archive" buttons too for more links about the subject.

And if you'd rather skip my site, I recommend the Conscious Consumer Marketplace http://www.newdream.org/consumer/marketplace.php, the Green Guide http://www.thegreenguide.com/, or the National Green Pages http://www.coopamerica.org/pubs/greenpages.
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MiltonHorton

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #64 on: 03 May 2008, 21:45 »

I was recently told at work that I should stop shutting my computer down when we close.  Apparently, the energy it wastes makes up for precious seconds I lose booting the computer back up when I arrive.  Of course, without rebooting my computer gets slower and slower by the day, which delays everything I do.  God I hate my company. 

P.S. This is outrageous! Your company is nuts. Here's an article about how much energy it saves to turn computers off at night. Maybe you can subtly leave it on the desk of someone in charge: http://techlogg.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=367&Itemid=9
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Patrick

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #65 on: 04 May 2008, 05:21 »

Quote from: Slick's checklist
-compost check
-turn your wasteful grass lawn partially into vegetables check, we get asstons of oranges and lemons and olives every year
-seriously, grass is a big fucking waste of resources, it's needy and useless check
-and then you could stop buying stuff from mexico all the time? check
-gardening is dead simple. I mean, there is work, but it is not a lot of work after the planting. If your community had a rototiller it'd just be, like, an afternoon or two of labour, then watering/weeding once a week. You can do it! check
-turn down your air conditioning check, turned 'em off 'cause I don't care about the temperature in my house, hot or cold I regulate my heat with clothing.
-convince your company to turn off the goddamned lights at night the McDonald's I worked at/will be working at always turns all the lights off at night
-like, that's a waste of energy. Don't blame the company, be an agent of change. You're part of it I'm aware, lol
-come one wallmart, I bet you leave lights on over night irrelevant in my case
-there ain't no such thing as a free lunch Yeah but it's better than being sent out to go get my own lunch from somewhere else on my 20-minute break. I'd never eat, and I like eating!
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mooface

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #66 on: 04 May 2008, 14:07 »

Also, what do you guys think about buying local? Other than the obvious environmental factors of not having to ship food, clothes etc hundreds of miles, would you say it was better to buy things from people living in a developed nation or better to support fair trade products in order to help people living in less developed nations?

apparently, eating less meat is more helpful than buying local.  i just read this article today and found it interesting!

anyways, i personally try to buy local when i'm in the states because 1) large farms in america are pretty gross and questionable so locally grown organic food is just plain healthier, and 2) i like to support the "little guy", in this case small farmers, whenever possible.  in italy this is not an issue because thanks to the CAP i pretty much have no choice about my food, most of it is local, or at the very least grown in within the country.

by the way... i don't want to get political but i can't help it.   that "thanks to the CAP" was totally sarcastic.  the EU's Common Agricultural Policy and the American subsidies are terrible things because they basically prevent developing countries from being able to grow economically.  i would rather have the CAP modified heavily so that farmers from poor countries could have a fighting chance!  i would definitely buy food coming from developing nations as long as their farming practices were sound (such as not using harmful pesticides etc.)

ps.  MiltonHorton, thanks for the link!  your site looks pretty interesting and helpful :)
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Lines

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #67 on: 04 May 2008, 15:53 »

Local butcher shops have delicious delicious things. So do local farmers. I love it when I get fresh veggies from family members who have farms. And going to the farms in the area that allow people to pick their own fruit is fun and usually ends in the best damn pies every. And cheeses from farmers markets. I could go on, but I won't. The only thing I won't buy is milk, but this is because I can't drink anything over 2%.
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Something Witty

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #68 on: 06 May 2008, 07:49 »

Show me a pair of vegetarian boots that will last 8 years(and still counting. I wear them every day) and cost less than $100 and I will look into it.
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tommydski

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #69 on: 06 May 2008, 13:25 »

Electrical Audio agony aunt, genuine Indie Rocker, life coach and all round nice guy Tim Midgett pointed me towards this site -

Alternative Apparel.

Pretty much exactly the same as American Apparel but not owned by a massive asshat!
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Patrick

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #70 on: 06 May 2008, 15:09 »

Too bad they don't have pants.

I cannot support a clothing store that does not have pants.
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öde

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #71 on: 06 May 2008, 15:14 »

Where can I buy an eco-sustainable/fair trade asshat?

Pat, you should have a serious look at your life if trousers are important to you.
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tommydski

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #72 on: 06 May 2008, 15:28 »

I cannot support a clothing store that does not have pants.

I am the Weaver.
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Patrick

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #73 on: 06 May 2008, 15:31 »

Guys did you really have to make me show you this again?



See those rocks? Those are marble. Marble is all over this country. My legs are literally whiter than marble. PANTS ARE IMPORTANT TO ME
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jeph

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #74 on: 06 May 2008, 19:19 »

I just wear a couple third-world children to cover up my dong and ass.

AND BOY DO THEY EVER
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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #75 on: 06 May 2008, 23:15 »

So you've got a hybrid SUV to make your daily commute more eco-friendly? GREAT!

Interesting statistic, according to the UN, meat production in America does more to contribute to global warming then all of the cars in America.  Red meat, specifically pork and beef, is the worst offender.  A simple change in diet can do more then all those other tips combined.  That said, I am not a vegetarian, but I went from eating red meat way too often to about once a month.

Also, thank you for the links to all the nifty stores.
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Slick

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #76 on: 06 May 2008, 23:43 »

That is the same reason why I don't eat meat often. But it is much easier to buy a fancy car than give up meat, no?
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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #77 on: 07 May 2008, 00:08 »

Fair trade has always been a stupid concept.  The very definition of market price means buyer and seller agree on a fair price for a good or service but I'm supposed to pay 2,3,4, or even 5 times fair market value to reward some person who made poor business choices?  Screw that.  I'm willing to pay a little bit more to buy goods made in an environmentally sensitive manner but I'm not naive enough to think it makes much difference. 
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Patrick

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #78 on: 07 May 2008, 02:42 »

I just wear a couple third-world children

You get your filthy paws off me, punk, I can bite things as well as I can cover 'em.
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redglasscurls

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #79 on: 07 May 2008, 06:32 »

Patrick, your legs are pale BECAUSE you wear pants all the time. Become a tan nudist.
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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #80 on: 07 May 2008, 09:52 »

some person who made poor business choices

A third-world farmer growing coffee is not so much a business decision as not having any choice as to how to make any money.

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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #81 on: 07 May 2008, 09:53 »

Fair trade has always been a stupid concept.  The very definition of market price means buyer and seller agree on a fair price for a good or service but I'm supposed to pay 2,3,4, or even 5 times fair market value to reward some person who made poor business choices?  Screw that.  I'm willing to pay a little bit more to buy goods made in an environmentally sensitive manner but I'm not naive enough to think it makes much difference. 

For a start, this only starts to make sense in a free market and that's just a fairy story. No such thing as free trade and a market with a level playing field and there never will be. You're right about it not making enough of a difference though, ethical consuming isn't going to save the world, but at least it's something and it has led to some people being less hideously poor.
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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #82 on: 07 May 2008, 11:52 »

tan nudist

Surely a tan nudist would not have a tan at all? From the photo I believe that Patrick is already a tan nudist. Perchance you meant a nudist tanner, which creates interesting images of naked people tanning.
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Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #83 on: 07 May 2008, 12:17 »

Manda I am not going to go out naked and get a tan. Why? Because people across the street with a balcony slightly above mine will probably not want to look down at my balcony and see my sunburned willy flying in the breeze for all the world to witness.
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Ozymandias

Re: eco-sustainable/fair trade clothing
« Reply #84 on: 07 May 2008, 12:21 »

but at least it's something and it has led to some people being less hideously poor.

I read this as "hilariously poor"


I think I will continue to do so.
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