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Poll

Who will be the villian in the next Batman movie?

The Joker (again)
- 2 (2.7%)
The Mob
- 2 (2.7%)
Poison Ivy
- 0 (0%)
Catwoman
- 8 (10.7%)
Ra's al Ghul and the League of Assassins
- 1 (1.3%)
Bane
- 5 (6.7%)
Clayface
- 4 (5.3%)
Firefly
- 1 (1.3%)
Harleyquinn
- 4 (5.3%)
The Mad Hatter
- 3 (4%)
Man-Bat
- 1 (1.3%)
Mr. Freeze
- 3 (4%)
The Penguin
- 8 (10.7%)
The Riddler
- 18 (24%)
The Scarecrow
- 4 (5.3%)
Ventriloquist and Scarface
- 5 (6.7%)
Other (Let me know if you want me to add someone to the poll)
- 6 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 60


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Author Topic: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)  (Read 153108 times)

KvP

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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #350 on: 18 Aug 2008, 17:06 »

I don't know, I think the best outcome would be for it to be totally unlike Condemned in every way except that you can make Batman slam Jagermeister and throw the bottles at people.

The comparison that's been thrown around the most so far is Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay aka Chronicles of Riddick: The Only Good Licensed Game to Come Out Since Goldeneye and the Only Licensed Game That's Vastly Superior to it's Source Material. As far as FPSes go that was a pretty creative little game, even if it was a bit harsh on the eyes.

Definite buy if they get the Animated Series VAs, though. Mark Hamill and Ron Perlman? I do believe my head is getting light.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #351 on: 18 Aug 2008, 17:34 »

I'm going to completely ignore you all and say this.

I'm going to see it again tomorrow.
yay.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #352 on: 18 Aug 2008, 21:16 »

I'm going to completely ignore you all

Then why are you posting on the forum? Talking and not listening doesn't make a community.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #353 on: 18 Aug 2008, 23:09 »

It's no good man, he's just going to ignore you.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #354 on: 19 Aug 2008, 06:56 »

The comparison that's been thrown around the most so far is Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay aka Chronicles of Riddick: The Only Good Licensed Game to Come Out Since Goldeneye and the Only Licensed Game That's Vastly Superior to it's Source Material

Man, that is way untrue. The vast majority of Star Wars games to come out since Dark Forces have ranged from good to excellent with some crap thrown in and X-Men Legends/Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Ultimate Spider-Man and Hulk: Ultimate Destruction were all great.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #355 on: 19 Aug 2008, 07:52 »

Of course when I say "licensed" here I mean "tie-in", which none of those really are (it depends on which Star Wars games you're talking about, but the games having to directly do with the movies have been mediocre at best.) The Marvel games seemed to be mostly derivative of the comics rather than the films.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #356 on: 19 Aug 2008, 08:36 »

You're forgetting the Lego Star Wars. Those were good.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #357 on: 19 Aug 2008, 08:42 »

They were good, for being incorporeal.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #358 on: 19 Aug 2008, 08:48 »

Licensed and tie-in are two very different things, Johny, you can't really fault my statement based upon your miswording.

Though if we'd like to go just movie tie-in games, Spider-Man 2 was pretty excellent.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #359 on: 19 Aug 2008, 08:57 »

You're right, I wasn't very careful with my wording.

The Spiderman games were pretty good, I suppose, up until 3, which seemed to be typical tie-in fare.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #360 on: 19 Aug 2008, 19:01 »

I played the first spider-man game.  I still have it.  It's dreck. 

The second game is video game gold.  As far as I'm concerned, it's perfectly executed.

I've not played the third, but I hear it follows the path of the second and that its flaws are all due to being rushed to coincide with the movie (camera problems and etc that could have been dealt with had their been more thorough testing, I think).

In other words, you're pretty much right.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #361 on: 20 Aug 2008, 14:08 »

So, am I the only person to hate the Spidey games and like Rise of Sin Tzu?
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #362 on: 20 Aug 2008, 14:20 »

No, the first Spider-Man game was pretty bad.

Also, is dreck good or bad?
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #363 on: 20 Aug 2008, 14:35 »

bad.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #364 on: 20 Aug 2008, 17:06 »

I liked the first Spidey game, loved the fact that you could also play as the Green Goblin.  Loved the second, played the hell out of it and beat everything in it.  Hated the third one, wouldn't even get past the 1st stage I disliked it so much.

The one I love the most was Ultimate Spider-man.  It was pretty much the second one with a graphical update and some what followed the plot of the Ultimate Spider-man comics (which Bendis is now doing in the comics).
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #365 on: 20 Aug 2008, 23:05 »

I could not stand Ultimate Spider-Man, both the game and the comics.  They changed way too much stuff, and a lot of it doesn't make any sense.  I realize the Ultimates universe is different than the regualr Marvel universe, but come on, the Venom symbiote was created in a lab??  Peter Parker was Carnage?  That was way too much liberty right there.

However, I have to agree, Spider-Man 2 was the best one in the series.  And Spider-man 3 is alright if it's on the Wii.  The swinging parts, anyway.  I still haven't finished it, though.  Couldn't bring myself to.

Speaking of Spider-Man games...

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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #366 on: 21 Aug 2008, 00:48 »

There is nothing about Carnage that ever deserves enough thought to be angry that they changed his backstory ever.

The only emotions that are acceptable about Carnage are a general apathy or mild disgust at that era of comics.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #367 on: 21 Aug 2008, 00:56 »

But things were just so edgy then. :-D
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #368 on: 21 Aug 2008, 05:52 »

Edgy, just like the entire 2099 universe.


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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #369 on: 21 Aug 2008, 06:57 »

Man. That's just nuts. Ultimate Spider-Man is the best Spider-Man since the seventies and probably consistently the best long-running superhero comic in general since its inception. Comes part and parcel with a single writer sticking with it for close to 150 issues now, though (Which is pretty much completely unheard of these days).

But seriously. You hate the liberties? Man, the liberties are why it's so great. Spider-Man dealing with aliens was retarded. Absolutely retarded. That's why Venom and Carnage were idiotic characters. The changes they made actually made it vaguely interesting. Not to mention, what exactly were they supposed to do? Re-tell twenty year old comics? That would be kind of a lot of stupid, considering the comic it'd be retelling were pretty shit to begin with.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #370 on: 21 Aug 2008, 08:18 »

i only have a few collected editions of ultimate spiderman but i generally enjoy them. i just don't like the art - too many talking heads. putting them in hs was a good move although their idea of highschool is still a bit off
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #371 on: 21 Aug 2008, 08:53 »

I do like the HS thing, but everything else they did with the series just seems wrong.  It's like what they did with the third movie.  Emo Peter, scrawny Venom, no mo' MJ?  I guess maybe I'm just a sucker for the original stuff, though I do appreciate some new ideas.  I just don't like when my favorite series are molested like a creepy uncle's niece.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #372 on: 21 Aug 2008, 10:11 »

Not to step into a conversation (and hopefully this hasn't already been covered... I wasn't terribly thrilled at the idea of scrolling through 8 pages of conversation), but I just put in a vote for "other" on the villians list. 

One, I read or heard that Christopher Nolan wasn't interested in pursuing a villian that has already been portrayed in a previous film.  A friend was telling me about the character Black Mask.  The concept of the character seems to fit with the darker tone the franchise is going for, and he seems to be a bit of a parallel to Bruce's character as far as wealth and business sense goes.  I'm not entirely familiar with Black Mask but what I read it seems pretty cool (kidnappings, a mask made from his parent's coffin!). 

Just thought I'd throw two cents in.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #373 on: 21 Aug 2008, 17:06 »

Edgy, just like the entire 2099 universe.


Man, don't knock Miguel, he is by far my favorite Spider-man.  I was psyched when I learned he joined the Exiles, but they seem to have gotten rid of him.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #374 on: 22 Aug 2008, 06:20 »

Wasn't knocking it, along with Hulk 2099 and Doom 2099, those were really awesome books. Just a little too over the top sometimes. The early 90s was a great time for Marvel.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #375 on: 22 Aug 2008, 07:25 »

Early nineties Marvel was hit and miss. While the X-Men franchise was at a bit of a peak and 2099 was well received, most everything else was in the shitter. The Avengers were meh, Spider-Man was well on its way to the worst it's ever been (And hopefully ever will be) and the Fantastic Four kept getting more and more idiotic.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #376 on: 22 Aug 2008, 08:49 »

i actually liked Spiderman 2099. that was back when i still read comics and it was pretty interesting and definitely unique.

the suit made of nanobots? my adolescent mind swooned at the idea.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #377 on: 22 Aug 2008, 13:54 »

For the next Batman movie villains, how about a team up of Edward Nygma and Temple Fugate? The Riddler x Clock King. Maybe throw Clayface in there just because he's never been seen in the Batman movies yet, and I think they could do a lot of great SFX with him on screen.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #378 on: 25 Aug 2008, 08:42 »

Terrifying speculation about the new movie.

At least, I hope / assume it's just speculation.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #379 on: 25 Aug 2008, 08:46 »

Sounds like a load of bullshit for me. For one, Depp and a third movie are both things that have never been confirmed and this one's claiming they have.

Beyond that, I wouldn't take much thought on it, anyway. I remember being filled with trepidation when I heard the dude from The Order was going to be playing the Joker.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #380 on: 25 Aug 2008, 09:52 »

Yeah, I call shenanigans on that story, and I really don't see "The Caped Crusader" as the title, doesn't really fit in with Nolans take on Batman.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #381 on: 25 Aug 2008, 09:56 »

it might be dark and terrifying if they made her catwoman but made her take off her wigs. and then of course give her a guy bulge. (i'm saying she's a man, man)
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #382 on: 25 Aug 2008, 12:18 »

Why does everyone hate Venom and Carnage and drool like idiots over Bane, I don't fucking get it.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #383 on: 25 Aug 2008, 12:23 »

i don't get it either.

i always liked Venom and, yes, even Carnage. he was an escaped lunatic with an alien symbiote, for godssakes. what's cooler?
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #384 on: 25 Aug 2008, 12:51 »

Well, considering that I'm the only one primarily falling under both opinions, I'll assume that that remark was made at me:

Johnny, I've been reading comic books for the better part of sixteen years now. That's a full two thirds of my life. In that time, I've found very few characters who were more a shallow, two-dimensional cliche of the time in which they were created. As much as characters like Wolverine and Punisher became cliches in the fact that many characters emulated them and thus the genre centered around rip-offs and homages to them, Carnage was a character who was created to reflect the popular effect of the time. There is literally no substance to him. He is merely a batshit guy with super powers. There have been precious few additions to the character that make him anything more than that. He is a character that has been around for over fifteen years and that's still all he is, a pale impersonation of the Joker and Venom. He fails to grow as a character because the template he was created upon had little to no room for development. There's a reason that, for all his notoriety, he's only ever had one real major storyline involvement, albeit a pretty remarkably terrible one that was actually outdone by a video game tie-in. Since Maximum Carnage, Carnage has barely been a presence of consequence.

Venom, well, he at least had some vague potential. The original idea was to create a kind of flip side to Spider-Man. This was a relatively new idea at the time. Unfortunately, Marvel botched it all to Hell. From his inception, he was a raving moron who hated Spider-Man because he caught a serial killer that ended up proving a story he covered to be false. He was incredibly powerful and he came out of nowhere to suddenly start beating on Spider-Man and going after him mercilessly for no good reason in some utter garbage deus ex bullshit. The initial idea behind the concept was for the Venom symbiote to be the real antagonist, jumping from host to host trying to kill or re-merge with Spider-Man after their separation and that could've been entertaining and sustainable. Unfortunately, Marvel blew the whole thing. He was too popular, so they decided to stick with Brock and turn him into essentially the Punisher with spider powers, again, a cliched product of the times. Over recent years, some depth has been added to Brock, but this didn't occur until right before Brock and Venom were separated, and Venom's new host is essentially a rerun of Carnage (He is currently bonded to Mac Gargan, formerly known as Scorpion). In effect, Brock has regained some semblance of interest, but Venom is still a pile of shit.

Bane was similar to Venom in his inception, but DC actually stuck to their guns on it in a rather ballsy manner. Bane reveled in his simplicity, while having some inner depth. Bane was a true threat to Batman that DC had been building for a while. He was a behind the scenes presence that had been working his way into the Gotham scene for a while before Knightfall occurred. He was blended into Batman's rogues gallery and set up naturally as an extreme threat, compared to Venom being shoehorned into the Spider-Man franchise. He was a much denser and much more enjoyable character.

I like my villains with depth or at least a great character. Magneto is an all time great. He's not some cheap thug, he wants to subjugate humanity because he feels they'll round his people up and slaughter them like humans did to his own family (He was a Jewish boy in Auschwitz).

I'll admit, something could come along and change my mind about some shitty characters. I'm of the mind that there's no such thing as an inherently terrible character, as a great writer could always come along and make something out of them (Such as Magneto, who began life as a total joke), but as yet, Venom has had very little forward movement and Carnage is, to this day, a joke who happened to look cool.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #385 on: 25 Aug 2008, 12:54 »

*blah, long post is long

General antipathy for Todd McFarlane and his Character With Many Slightly Varying Faces (Venom, Carnage, Spawn, I guess you could throw Necrid in there if you wanted to, there's probably more) I would imagine. Venom and Carnage appealed to me when I was 8 because they looked cool, Carnage especially, and Venom was an "anti-hero" who could kill people and that was cool I guess, but nothing about them sang "great character" to me. They haven't aged well.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #386 on: 25 Aug 2008, 13:07 »

McFarlane actually had shit all to do with Carnage and very little to do with the creation of Venom. The former was created by David Michelinie and designed by Mark Bagley, Venom was created, overall, by Michelinie and was merely aesthetically designed by McFarlane (And even that was a pretty worthless contribution, he was basically just taking a prior design and following Michelinie's direction of making him big and then he added teeth and a long tongue). The only reason Venom ever took off was because he was associated with McFarlane, who was very hot at the time, and the only reason Carnage took off was because of his relation to Venom.

And, as you note John, the anti-hero thing played a big part. Teens ate up the anti-hero angle because it seemed tough. The popularity of Wolverine led to this trend and Venom was one of the bigger examples of what was wrong with it. It resulted in a ton of overall lame characters who became oversaturated because teens ate up the "hero who kills" mentality. Venom had the fortune of being one of the early adopters to this bandwagon. If he'd debuted maybe two years later than he did, he would've sunk into obscurity with the rest of the failed attempts to capitalize on the fad.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #387 on: 25 Aug 2008, 15:25 »

I wasn't saying I didn't think that Carnage, Venom or their shitspawn weren't atrocious villains, so that remark wasn't directed squarely at you. It's just that Bane was shitty from the beginning.

Pictures can sum up how I feel better than words can though.

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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #388 on: 25 Aug 2008, 15:27 »

Seriously if a picture says a thousand words that one just says X-TREME a thousand times.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #389 on: 25 Aug 2008, 15:58 »

But man, look at those neck muscles! He's so awesome!

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Johnny C

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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #390 on: 25 Aug 2008, 16:52 »

I went to get a smoothie and return a film, and while I was doing that I came up with some ways to make Bane more x-treme.

  • Bane is an evil pro skateboarder. He skateboards into Batman from behind, breaking his back.
  • Bane fights Batman while base-jumping from the highest cliff in Gotham. He uses the Venom to tear Batman's bungee cable in half and Batman plummets to the rocks, breaking his back.
  • Bane has a mohawk and fronts a radical evil punk band. Batman is crowdsurfed by a horde of Bane's minions, who drop him, breaking his back. Bane plays a guitar solo.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #391 on: 25 Aug 2008, 16:54 »

why is there a t-rex in the background of that picture?
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #392 on: 25 Aug 2008, 17:16 »

Cause it is set in the Bat Cave.

What the hell is up with Mysterio now anyway?  He killed himself in Daredevil, now he is back, and then there are two guys running around as him.  One from the Evil That Men Do, and the other who decided to become his successor.  What the hell?
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sean

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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #393 on: 25 Aug 2008, 17:37 »

...

I mean, I am not a comic book reader, but why the hell would there be a T-Rex in the bat cave? That makes no sense.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #394 on: 25 Aug 2008, 17:42 »

Seriously if a picture says a thousand words that one just says X-TREME a thousand times.
I wish to commend you for your keen observation that comic book villains are ridiculous.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #395 on: 25 Aug 2008, 18:03 »

...

I mean, I am not a comic book reader, but why the hell would there be a T-Rex in the bat cave? That makes no sense.

I assume it's part of his Rogue's Gallery Museum or what have you in the Batcave but really it just makes it more kickin' rad don't you think?

Gnarly!!!!!!
« Last Edit: 25 Aug 2008, 18:22 by Johnny C »
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #396 on: 25 Aug 2008, 18:24 »

I'm with Johnny C on this one. Knightfall is the comic book equivalent of Prince of Persia II. To paraphrase Zero Punctuation, they still went and stuck their dick in the pudding when they chose that cover and aesthetic. It doesn't matter how finely tuned the underpinnings are if someone can't even approach your product without feeling like a collossal tool.
« Last Edit: 25 Aug 2008, 18:26 by Whipstitch »
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #397 on: 25 Aug 2008, 18:25 »

Man fuck you, The Shadow and the Flame was better than the first.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #398 on: 25 Aug 2008, 18:28 »

Fine, fine. It's like PoP:tWW. Point stands.
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Re: The Dark Knight (SPOILERS START ON PAGE 3)
« Reply #399 on: 25 Aug 2008, 19:01 »

Johnny, I shit you not, most of those jokes you made are real supervillains.

BK, the original Mysterio, Quentin Beck, is dead. He's the one featured in that Daredevil arc. The Mysterio who appeared for a while after that was his cousin or some such nonsense (In reality, the cousin angle was a hastily thrown together explanation for an editorial gaffe where Mysterio showed up in Spider-Man like two months after killing himself in Daredevil). The third Mysterio is the dude from Evil That Men Do.

All three actually showed up in a Civil War tie-in of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man where the ETMD Mysterio took over the school Parker worked in, the cousin of Beck Mysterio appeared to fight the so-called imposter and the original showed up as a kind of zombie thing.
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