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Author Topic: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY  (Read 24856 times)

Caspian

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I am aware that this is possibly THE nerdiest type of game that you can get, but I like it a great deal anyway; the relaxed pace, the emphasis on strategy and so on and so forth.

Personally I would say that Civ III (especcially with the expansion packs) and Master of Orion 2 are the pinnacles of this genre thus far, combining the ultra nerdy micromanagement things this genre's known for with a fair bit of entertainment and accessibility. Galactic Civilizations was also pretty cool, but mainly because the tech tree was so awesome.

ANYWAY. TURN BASED STRATEGY. DISCUSS.
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Dimmukane

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #1 on: 05 May 2008, 18:59 »

I suck at it hard. (I have trouble beating 5 other AI players on Settler difficulty in Civ 4)  But I love Civ 4 to death.  I just need to get accustomed to focusing on fewer aspects of my empire.  I end up getting spread far too thin for me to be any good.
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KickThatBathProf

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #2 on: 05 May 2008, 19:24 »

I've always been a fan of Fire Emblem
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Surgoshan

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #3 on: 05 May 2008, 22:09 »

I'll agree on MoO2.  I prefer Civ 4 to 3, though.  Lots of hidden numbers in that game.  I'm sorry, but a raw spearman should never beat a veteran tank.
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Shreazla

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #4 on: 05 May 2008, 22:37 »

I personally enjoy Fire Emblem myself, as well as Risk and chess (though I doubt the last one fits what the author intended when he said turn based strategy, it is the epitome of said type of game).  I've also become slightly addicted to a Flash MMORPG called Dofus, which I randomly found online - it's turn based to a certain degree, and is a good time waster - Overall, yes, Turnbased strategy is still amazing; it just needs to be revamped every once in a while (like Fire emblem did).

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KickThatBathProf

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #5 on: 05 May 2008, 22:41 »

Risk and Chess are definately two of my favorite games of all time (not video games, yes, but still valid).  Axis and Allies is also a very good game.  "Risk on steroids" if you will.
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Thaes

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #6 on: 06 May 2008, 00:05 »

Although calling me a good player would be the greatest exagerration since someone said that Stalin was a bit naughty, I have to say that I love turn-based strategy games, especially Civ 4 and HoMM. I believe it has something to do with the relaxed phase mentioned earlier in this thread.

On a related note, I got this fantastic mod to Civ4 a while ago. It adds myriads of new technologies, buildings and units to the game, as well as making the game much longer (and enjoyable). The only problem is that in my computer, the game starts to get incredibly slow around the time I reach Renaissance...
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Spluff

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #7 on: 06 May 2008, 00:07 »

I quite like turn based strategy games.

Also, does Worms count too? Because Worms is fuckin' awesome.
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Surgoshan

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #8 on: 06 May 2008, 00:28 »

Back in college, whenever I was bored I'd fire up worms: armageddon and play.  I once managed to spend 90 minutes in the ropes challenge before I got bored.

You know, I'm sure there was a more productive way I could have spent that time.
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Fishboy

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #9 on: 06 May 2008, 05:08 »

I too, adore turn based strategy games.
Battle for wesnoth is one free one worth checking out, but my all time fav would have to be Age of Wonders: SM
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StaedlerMars

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #10 on: 06 May 2008, 05:12 »

Uhm...

Shogun Total War

Rome Total War

Medieval II Total War

(and coming but is going to kick ass:) Empire Total War

(I haven't played Medieval I)



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minorbird

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #11 on: 06 May 2008, 05:17 »

Total war series is insanely good. Too bad I suck ass as at turn-based strategy. Everynow and then I'll boot up Medieval II only to realise I'm not getting any better.
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Lord Rocket

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #12 on: 06 May 2008, 07:41 »

You all suck. Squad level crushes all that comes before it. Terror for the Deep and, more recently, Silent Storm, are the finest turn-based strategy games I have played.

But, yeah, the OP is absolutely right, turn based is definitely the finest (nerdier is better, let's face it) sort of strategy.
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Johnny C

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #13 on: 06 May 2008, 09:34 »

Turn-based strategy requires a level of patience that not a lot of gamers have, which is a shame because it's also probably the easiest kind of game to just leave off at any old point and then pick up again later. I really enjoy the Civilization games in particular, though, guys.
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Storm Rider

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #14 on: 06 May 2008, 13:58 »

I love turn-based strategy games, whether it be of the Civilization or the Fire Emblem type. I am an absolute sucker for them, probably because I have an abundance of free time so the level of investment they require doesn't bother me.

But I wouldn't exactly call Worms 'strategic'. Turn-based, certainly, but there's not a whole lot of strategy to 'blow the other team the fuck up'.

Also, I love Heroes of Might and Magic 3 on an almost unhealthy level. In fact, I think I'm going to go check and see if it's on Steam because I don't have my copy with me right now. It probably isn't, but damn if I'm not going to try anyway.
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StaedlerMars

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #15 on: 06 May 2008, 14:43 »

there's not a whole lot of strategy to 'blow the other team the fuck up'.

That's the best kind of strategy.

Ever play defcon?

But that's not really turnbased. Unless, you mean that everything happens in turns. It's a great game though.
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Caspian

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #16 on: 06 May 2008, 18:51 »

Also, I love Heroes of Might and Magic 3 on an almost unhealthy level. In fact, I think I'm going to go check and see if it's on Steam because I don't have my copy with me right now. It probably isn't, but damn if I'm not going to try anyway.

I wasn't thinking of HOMM III when I made this thread but it is freaking epic. There's something indefinably awesome about it that no other HOMM game has had. It really captures that epic fantasy thing brilliantly, which is rather good because I love my cliched epic fantasy.
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Dimsey

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #17 on: 06 May 2008, 20:12 »

I love me some TBS.
Civilization's all well and good but I prefer me some Alpha Centauri. Tis awesome and I'm constantly wishing they'd get around to a sequel.

I also like Silent Storm and though I'd only played Apocalypse, I like X-com also.
Shame i can't be arsed figuring out DOSbox so I can continue playing. I must've bought the game just as we were switching to XP, got to play it a little bit and BAM - XP gets installed and all that jazz and suddenly no X-com.
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Ikrik

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #18 on: 06 May 2008, 21:37 »

my friend's brother has something a little bit like Axis and Allies on the computer.  I have NO idea what it's called but a single game can take over 200 hours to play and beat.  EVERY country in the world was included (from 1940's)  You control EVERYTHING and it's just freaking insane....points in history are put in, wars are put in....so WW2 your countries enemies will start attacking you.  I have no idea how large (sizewise) the game is...but it's hardcore.
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Alex C

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #19 on: 06 May 2008, 21:39 »

HOMMII & III were both just plain awesome. HOMMIII may have been more polished and refined, but then again, HOMMII had the edge balls out cheesiness. The cutscenes where Roland's Advisors have their "accidents," the pseudo-operatic city scores, the vampires that say "blah!" as they attack... Good times.
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DonInKansas

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #20 on: 07 May 2008, 21:32 »

I like a lot of the games that have been mentioned, but Final Fantasy Tactics holds a special place in my heart for the sheer amount of time it sucked from my life when it came out.
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frullic

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #21 on: 07 May 2008, 21:36 »

Heroes of Might and Magic is my favourite. I've been playing them since I was 7 and I spend most of my time playing Heroes V.
BTW Heroes IV sucked like a bucket of ticks.
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Spluff

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #22 on: 07 May 2008, 22:56 »

I love Heroes II. It's just so good.
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Storm Rider

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #23 on: 07 May 2008, 23:32 »

Heroes 3 is better. Yeah, I said it.
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Thaes

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #24 on: 07 May 2008, 23:50 »

I agree with what others here have said about HoMM 4. I did like it how the hero´s class could be changed by the skills you choose, but the rest of the game just wasn´t all that good.
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Ozymandias

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #25 on: 08 May 2008, 00:11 »

Fuck all your guyses teams: GalCiv2.

Fucking top it. Come on. No. No, you can't.
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Surgoshan

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #26 on: 08 May 2008, 00:27 »

That's just begging for a "your mom", and you know it, Ozy.
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Red Peril

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #27 on: 08 May 2008, 05:00 »

Turn based games' reputation for being lame seems quite bizzare when I know that Civilisation 3 is the only game most people I know play on a regular basis, and please bear in mind these people are not people who play games at all. Personally I loved Medieval II but the AI was totally fucked and I had to mod it to stop it from doing crazy, suicidal things which killed it off and inconvenienced me. Personally I much prefer Civ 4 to 3, I just think its better in every way, especially with the new government choices giving you much more flexibility and better tile management, but whatever its just down to personal preference and Civ 3 is damn good. Also chess is great.
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snalin

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #28 on: 08 May 2008, 05:09 »

Sure I do. I have played a bit of CIV, and a bit of Heroes. But right now I'm playing FreeCol and it's frigging awesome. And Sid Meyer knows his stuff.

I used to play some weird game that looked a bit like Heroes, but wasn't. It's too long since I played it for me to remember. And I played FF tactics too. Weeee!
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look out! Ninjas!

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #29 on: 10 May 2008, 05:13 »

I loved Civ 3 and love Civ 4 even more.
Heroes4 was incomplete when they released it, so of course it sucked. You need a mod like equilibrus to make it fun.
Heroes 3 is still better though.
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boni

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #30 on: 10 May 2008, 14:05 »

my friend's brother has something a little bit like Axis and Allies on the computer.  I have NO idea what it's called but a single game can take over 200 hours to play and beat.  EVERY country in the world was included (from 1940's)  You control EVERYTHING and it's just freaking insane....points in history are put in, wars are put in....so WW2 your countries enemies will start attacking you.  I have no idea how large (sizewise) the game is...but it's hardcore.

This game sounds  lot like Hearts of Iron (or its sequel). It's turn based, technically, but every turn is only a day long or something like that, so it plays like realtime. It's from a Swedish company called Paradox Interactive, who make a range of similar games, covering history from 1100 right up to 1950. Incredibly complex, absorbing games. The older games they released are also all available for download at really low prices, well worth checking out.

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RedLion

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #31 on: 10 May 2008, 22:07 »

I've tried to get into the genre repeatedly, but I just wind up getting annoyed/bored with it, even when it's in very small doses, like flash games online. I really wish I had the tolerance for it, because they're the only games that incorporate really any history prior to WW2 into games, and I'm supremely interested in all kinds of history.
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Digital-Pimp

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #32 on: 11 May 2008, 03:00 »

What is the appeal of turn-based strategy over real-time strategy?
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StaedlerMars

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #33 on: 11 May 2008, 03:12 »

Turn based strategy allows for a lot more detail to economy, politics, technology, instead of just focusing on war.The reason that they're not both employed often is that it's probably too much for a person to handle both aspects in minute detail.
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CardinalFang

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #34 on: 11 May 2008, 07:14 »

Add me to the list of lovers of Turn-Based games.
Civ III and IV, GalCivII, and HOMM are amongst my favorite. I also loved the old X-Com even though I never finished it.
I'd add the various Combat Mission games; Beyond Overlord, Barbarossa to Berlin, and Afrika Korps. Both sides plot their turns and then the computer runs the turns simultaneously. As a matter of fact I think I'll load Afrika Korps on the new computer now.   
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Spluff

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #35 on: 11 May 2008, 22:47 »

Turn based strategy allows for a lot more detail to economy, politics, technology, instead of just focusing on war.The reason that they're not both employed often is that it's probably too much for a person to handle both aspects in minute detail.

Also theres more a lot more strategy in the battles. Unless your playing a Total War battle, combat in RTS is simplistic and boring.
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Caspian

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #36 on: 12 May 2008, 01:38 »

I wouldn't say it's boring. In fact I'd argue that combat in SC and RA2 is a good deal more entertaining then in any turn based you care to name. Also, it's not THAT simplistic, there's certainly a lot of strategy in RTS. Perhaps you're just crap at them  :-P

I liken it to playing chess vs sparring/fighthing with someone. Chess is more strategic but there isn't any sort of the visceral thrill you get from having a fight. Whereas Chess has plenty of "Oh man, this coutergambit is going to own him, ohhhhh yeah", it's not as satisfying as doing a reverse hip throw on someone. I guess it depends on what kind of person you are, though.
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Spluff

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #37 on: 12 May 2008, 02:21 »

I'm talking about the actual combat - you just mass units and click on the other units and let them fight to the death. There's nothing to it. There's little to no flanking, manoeuvring etc. in RTS battles.
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StaedlerMars

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #38 on: 12 May 2008, 06:04 »

It really depends on how much effort you put into it. Sure you can just point and click, but there's also other ways of doing things, usually more effective. However, the point and click is the same for most games. It'll get you through things, you could just do a lot better.
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Caspian

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #39 on: 12 May 2008, 08:18 »

Exactly. There's the rush marine/zerg/conscript/base unit attach which is pretty brainless, but when you get things like artillery, units with special abilities, taking into account their defences etc there's a fair bit of strategy.

Thinking about it, my attacking style in TBS relies solely on getting numbers in quickly, whereas my RTS one is a lot more thought out.
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Doug S. Machina

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #40 on: 12 May 2008, 15:59 »

I played Civilisation 2 a lot, but Civ 3 wouldn't work. Grr. DEFCON is great, but I suck at it.

Also, really liked UFO: Enemy Unknown and XCOM: Terror From The Deep.
« Last Edit: 12 May 2008, 16:00 by Doug S. Machina »
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frullic

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #41 on: 12 May 2008, 22:20 »

I have to admit something. When I first bought Heroes V and played it, it was so awesome I nearly creamed my boxors. The Necropois has style but their stuff is brittle.
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snalin

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #42 on: 13 May 2008, 05:10 »

It's not for everyone though. Because of the fast-pace it can be insanely frustrating.

Game speed: slow

That was the only way I was able to do the harder levels. Some on Frozen Throne is impossible at hard without a hundred saves and reloads if you don't use that.

But you have a point, there's a lot of strategy in RTS games, but definitely not as much as in TBS. The maximum number of resources in RTS is four, I have never seen any more than that. A TBS can have tens of them, all with different uses and prices (I play freecol with 11 of them). You have more micromanagement and strategic thinking in Medieval2s building and moving part than in Warcraft3, but you never get as stressed and thrilled and pumped up by wondering wheter to build levy pikeman or longbowmen as by zerging the undead with gunners.
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Mr. Mojo

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #43 on: 13 May 2008, 18:31 »

Don't rape me, but i hate turn based games -_-.
It takes a lot of the fun out of it in my eyes.
Unless it's worms
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nigralovecadillac

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #44 on: 13 May 2008, 18:33 »

I quite like turn based strategy games.

Also, does Worms count too? Because Worms is fuckin' awesome.

unless its worms turn based strategy is the prime example of what not to have in a game
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frullic

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #45 on: 13 May 2008, 20:05 »

It's not for everyone though. Because of the fast-pace it can be insanely frustrating.

Game speed: slow

That was the only way I was able to do the harder levels. Some on Frozen Throne is impossible at hard without a hundred saves and reloads if you don't use that.

But you have a point, there's a lot of strategy in RTS games, but definitely not as much as in TBS. The maximum number of resources in RTS is four, I have never seen any more than that. A TBS can have tens of them, all with different uses and prices (I play freecol with 11 of them). You have more micromanagement and strategic thinking in Medieval2s building and moving part than in Warcraft3, but you never get as stressed and thrilled and pumped up by wondering wheter to build levy pikeman or longbowmen as by zerging the undead with gunners.

Seriously, in my experience, a huge epic duel between you and a friend on HOMM V Hotseat mode is the most awesome thing, and I'm talking armies so huge there's lvl 5 units (black dragons, angels, titans, skeledragons, devils, emerald dragons) in the hundreds! Small units with numbers so large they appear as ex: "11k" then the magic. I had a bunch of redundant magic mirror  and magic resistance during the duel between me and my cousin. And I also had an Armageddon spell with too many bonuses that could cause tens of thousands of damage. I clicked it. My smaller units that were fire weak were slightly damaged, my larger stuff relatively unharmed. His skeletal army on the other hand, half gone. Then the fight went rough, ending between my golems and his zombies. Luckily my golems had a bunch of bonuses and even though their turn came seldomly, they owned whenever they could. Their prowess in combat in a tight finish earned me eternal bragging rights over him, including permission to say that the HOMM necromancers suck.
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Alex C

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #46 on: 14 May 2008, 07:52 »

There's a stupid amount of strategy involved in RTS games if you're any good, and a lot of it is on the tactical engagement level. High level Starcraft play does indeed have flanking and, believe it or not, manipulation of individual units. Flanking, focus fire, targeting your own units in order to utilize splash damage to harm units you cannot detect... there's a lot of thinking on your feet. When it comes right down to it, the most valuable "resource" in a good RTS like Starcraft is attention. I'd go so far as to say what often seperates above average players from great players is the ability to quickly determine if an engagement requires micromanagement or if your time is better spent elsewhere.

Admittedly though, most players never get to that level, since most RTS games do end when a player falls victim to a stumbling block like the classic zerg rush, fall behind in tech or otherwise put themselves in a situation where micromanagement and tactical play can't cover for their mistakes in strategic play. Most battles are indeed won or lost well before battle is joined. Sun Tzu would have loved it.
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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #47 on: 14 May 2008, 15:30 »

Please explain to me how flanking has any effect whatsoever in Age of Empires or Warcraft. I cannot comprehend it.
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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #48 on: 14 May 2008, 19:40 »

Man, the amount of battles I have won that I should have lost in RTS because I used 'tactics' is intense.

Basically in Age of Empires, I have beaten the game using just scouts in my military units on numerous occassions. They're fast, and if you do hit and run, they'll rip apart pikemen.
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Alex C

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Re: Who else here has a boner for TURN BASED STRATEGY
« Reply #49 on: 17 May 2008, 23:33 »

Please explain to me how flanking has any effect whatsoever in Age of Empires or Warcraft. I cannot comprehend it.

Well, I have a Starcraft example: Zerglings own Dragoons. Dragoons suffer a weapon type disadvantage vs. small targets and their relatively large unit size just means you can crowd a ridiculous number of zerglings around them and tear them to shreds. So if you can manage to cut the dragoons from the herd for even a short period of time by ensnaring the zealots or ambushing with burrow or by simply abusing the terrain you can easily pop a few goons with minimal losses, which is pretty nasty considering the huge cost discrepancy between a couple dragoons and a humble zergling pack.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2008, 23:35 by Whipstitch »
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