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[Ikrik]

Cannibal Holocaust
Sounds like a stupid title....by it's title alone it shouldn't be considered as one of the most controversial movies ever to be made...and yet it is.  I have recently decided to watch a couple "grindhouse" movies to broaden my taste in films.  Cannibal Holocaust was not recommended to me, I had seen references to it made with MANY warnings as to what the film contains.  However, thinking that I'm a tough guy, I didn't pay attention.

This is the most horrifying movie I have ever seen in my life.  7 animals are killed in the movie.......literally killed while filming, and they're not killed.....graciously.  The most nauseating scene comes when characters decide to eat a turtle....so they kill it and take it out of it's shell.....and it's all shown. 

I didn't take the warnings about this movie seriously, and now I feel like throwing up and I don't think I'll be able to sleep for quite some time.  So seriously....avoid this film, it's not worth your peace of mind.

[Hat]

Raaaaaaaaad

[Jackie Blue]

Aside from the (real) animal killing, the (allegedly simulated) human-injuring is frighteningly realistic.

I actually found it to be a fairly fascinating film, however.

[Barmymoo]

Isn't that all kinds of illegal?

I can't believe that people actually make this kind of film, but I'm aware that it happens far more often than normal people would like to think. I really, really hope you didn't pay money to watch it.

I can see how it'd be fascinating, in the same way that dissecting organs is fascinating, but killing things (people or animals) for the sake of "entertainment" is horrible.

[Ikrik]

The director was arrested because the police thought that the actors were murdered.  However he was able to bring them onto a talkshow which satisfied the police.  The animal-killing however.....isn't illegal.....although I'm pretty sure that the turtle is probably endangered.

I downloaded it....I never buy movies without first seeing them first (except in certain instances).  I did find the film fascinating....I mean, I was so repulsed by it but I couldn't just turn it off.

[Boro_Bandito]

Also with it being a grindhouse type movie I imagine its a couple decades old, right? Animal rights laws weren't as strict back then.

[sean]

It was made in 1980.

Whoo worthless post!

[Boro_Bandito]

Yeah so its almost thirty years old, But, I mean, there are far worse movies from the 70s and earlier where animals are brutally killed on film. Mules and donkeys at the beginning of El Topo, Horses at the beginning of an early russian film that I can't remember the name of...

[Jackie Blue]

Besides the shock value, it is arguably a very well-made film on a social commentary level.

A sequel of sorts is planned to be released next year, by the same director.

[De_El]

So, uh, when I was 15, I watched Saló on the internet. I don't even remember why.  I think Marilyn Manson's website may have made some reference to it.  It...I could not handle it.  I threw up and it scared the shit outta me.  I don't know if I'd feel the same way now, but as far as messing up the mind of a 15-year-old, it lives up to the hype of being ridiculously disturbing.

[KharBevNor]

You should watch Guinea Pig 2: Flowers of Flesh and Blood next.

[KvP]

Seeing how it's a grindhouse sort of film they probably didn't pay much mind to the whole animal rights deal.  But then, the "no animals were harmed during the making of this film" thing only came about as a result of Heaven's Gate, which came out that same year. Horse slaughter was involved in that one, I think.

[KharBevNor]

They killed something like twenty horses filming the chariot race in Ben Hur. Then you have the ritual slaughter of the bull at the climax of Apocalypse Now. Cannibal Holocaust only stands out because the budget is so low you absolutely know it can't have been faked. We tend to rationalise over animal cruelty in old films as being effects trickery nowadays, when in fact they were just chucking livestock around like balloons full of viscera.

[Surgoshan]

Best I can tell, that sort of act would be illegal now, but it wasn't made illegal in the states until some time in the late 80s. 

[Cartilage Head]

 That sucks. I kind of want to see every movie mentioned in this thread but haven't had a chance to yet. I really want to see the Guinea Pig films!

[Boro_Bandito]

Don't see Ben Hur, just see Any Given Sunday. That's all you need from Ben Hur.

[Jackie Blue]

We tend to rationalise over animal cruelty in old films as being effects trickery nowadays, when in fact they were just chucking livestock around like balloons full of viscera.

Yeah, the PETA-like obsession with the animal killing in Cannibal Holocaust is kind of ridiculous.  OK, the monkey was a little over the line, but out of a whopping six animals killed in the film, one is A SPIDER.  A fucking SPIDER.  How many spiders does the average person kill every year?  Another one is a snake.  OK, slightly higher up on the food chain, but still... it's a frigging snake.  People kill harmless snakes in their houses all the time because they're too scared to pick them up.

[KharBevNor]

That sucks. I kind of want to see every movie mentioned in this thread but haven't had a chance to yet. I really want to see the Guinea Pig films!

Protip: There are no Guinea Pigs at all.

Given all the legal disclaimers on films, I wonder how they get away with those TV series were Bear Grylls wades through inhospitable terrain crudely bludgeoning the local wildlife to death with rocks and devouring it raw.

[CamusCanDo]

I think I've read about the Guniea Pig film somewhere, fuck knows where. Isn't it basically the Japanese/Asian precursor to Hostel?

[Inlander]

Yeah, the PETA-like obsession with the animal killing in Cannibal Holocaust is kind of ridiculous.  OK, the monkey was a little over the line, but out of a whopping six animals killed in the film, one is A SPIDER.  A fucking SPIDER.  How many spiders does the average person kill every year?  Another one is a snake.  OK, slightly higher up on the food chain, but still... it's a frigging snake.  People kill harmless snakes in their houses all the time because they're too scared to pick them up.

Although I do feel that many animal-rights activists go way over the top, I also don't see that there's any rational reason not to be as outraged at the killing of a spider or a snake as one might be at the killing of something larger or cuter.

[Surgoshan]

The smaller an animal is, the less room it has for brain; fact.  The central issue regarding animal cruelty is whether the animal in question can suffer.  Cats can suffer.  Monkeys can suffer.  I don't know if turtles can suffer.  I'm pretty sure flies can't.

[RedLion]

Besides the shock value, it is arguably a very well-made film on a social commentary level.

A sequel of sorts is planned to be released next year, by the same director.

No, it's really not. It's no different from movies like "Hostel" that purport to be critiquing society while just bashing them over the head with a kind of movie that, in the end, doesn't succeed in making any kind of point, and like Saw and Hostel, is just inexcusable gore-porn on a sickening scale. Slaughtering animals for entertainment isn't defendable. It's not censorship to demand that living beings not be harmed for the amusement of humans watching a movie.

And what does it matter if the animal "suffers" or not? It's a living being, with just as much right to exist as you do. I'm not a fanatical animal rights activist, and I loathe and detest PETA. But callously dismissing the murder of animals--yes, even of snakes--for a movie saddens and, to an extent, infuriates me. Are you insinuating that if a person is in a coma and can feel nothing, can feel no pain and cannot suffer, it's totally fine for someone to make a movie in which they record the death of that person by stabbing or shooting?

[Dimmukane]

I agree with RedLion on this.  Nobody, and I do mean nobody, watches these movies for their purported social critiques, they watch it for the gore. I watch it for the gore.

Back to the topic, though, I can't watch movies with blood in them when I'm on acid.  I don't know why, but I just wanna look at something else.  I'm totally fine with it otherwise.  More than fine, even.

[Ikrik]

Do you know why people say that Cannibal Holocaust is "social commentary?"  Because RIGHT AT THE END the main professor dude says "I wonder who the real cannibals are."  That's not social commentary....that's the director going "hey....I need to put something in this movie so it doesn't look SO bad." 

I watched Guinea Pig 4: Mermaid in a Manhole.....but it was in Italian subs...and I don't speak Jap...so I'm gonna download it again.  The thing about Guinea Pig films...or at least the first two...they're meant to be snuff films right?

I agree 100% with Redlion word-for-word on animals, I don't think anyone could have put it better.

and to Anyways.......do you know what the term "jaded" is?  Or "desensitized."?

[KvP]

Wow, you guys sure do know how to go overboard don't you.

We do indeed.

And what does it matter if the animal "suffers" or not? It's a living being, with just as much right to exist as you do.

Uh, that's a terrible criterion for moral consideration. There are only two degrees of "living". If you want to be consistent you'd have to consider humans as you consider snakes as you consider  plants as you consider single-celled organisms as you consider cancerous tumors. Suffering is a better criterion as a lot of the things we wouldn't mind cruelly slaughtering by the millions, like pine beetles and the AIDS virus, don't really have much worth.

[Oli]

I agree with RedLion on this.  Nobody, and I do mean nobody, watches these movies for their purported social critiques, they watch it for the gore. I watch it for the gore.

Shit damn. I read tonnes of novels that are chock full of social commentary, but that is not why I read them. If I wanted to read something for the social commentary I'd pick up a text book. The point is it's there, maybe. I've never seen Cannibal Holocaust.

Also I couldn't care less about the saw films because they are complete and absolute gutter shite, but calling them bollocks because they are "gore-porn" or whatever ridiculous term you want to use is completely absurd. If people want to get their rocks off to CGI of a woman getting skinned alive then let them. Next you'll be complaining about the tree rape in The Evil Dead.

I'm not saying that killing animals is okay but I don't see why it being on film makes it worse than a bull fight.

[Norton Quintessential]

Uh.... Most people aren't too keen on bullfights, either.

[Dimmukane]

Shit damn. I watch tons of movies that are chock full of social commentary, but that is not why I watch them. If I wanted to watch something for the social commentary I'd pick up a documentary. The point is it's there, maybe. If a movie has any social commentary, then that's just the candles on the icing of the cake.

(edited to clarify my original point)

I'm not calling them bollocks.  I'm just saying that all the people who 'watch it for the commentary it provides' are just lying to themselves.

[öde]

Man, fuck off if you're telling so many strangers what they are and aren't doing.

[WriterofAllWrongs]

I've heard Cannibal Holocaust was pretty bad, which in turns means awesome for gore fans.  I'm not really into the whole gore scene, but I do like to watch one of these horrible and awful movies once and a while.  I don't really have any philosophy behind it or anything.  It's just sometimes you want to cringe and go "OH GOD NO", hence people's curiosity towards 2girls1cup despite people being like "NO THEY ARE EATING POOP."  The people watch it to see what all the hype is about.  I guess that's my reasoning behind watching these things.  Audition is still one of my favorite films of all time, just for the effort to make something so sickening.

If you want a good 10 movies such as Cannibal Holocaust, check it out, IGN made a blog! 

oh im sorry i seem to have made an on-topic post let me correct this

As far as the whole "OH NO NOT THE TURTLE" crap goes, I don't really give a shit.  I'm not killing the turtle.  I'm not eating the turtle.  The turtle is going to die for the same reason deer die during hunting season.  For shits and giggles.  It's very "So it goes" with me. 

[KharBevNor]

Hmn, not a very well composed list, unless you're JUST looking for gore. Otherwise not including Nekromantic, Pink Flamingoes and I Spit On Your Grave is fairly inexcusable.

A lot of its down to personal taste I suppose. I don't have a problem with pretty much most gore, but, for example, the vomit eating sequences in Meaning of Life and Bad Taste, and the shit eating bits in Salo and Pink Flamingoes make me feel somewhat uncomfortable. Of course, in Pink Flamingoes its worse because it's a genune honest to god fucking dog turd scooped right off the street.

Man, I seriously hope the recent remake of Hairspray has induced some people to check out the original, and then Waters other films. I can barely describe the sick joy I feel imagining the type of person who enjoys the remake of Hairspray seeing Pink Flamingoes. Though of course (and speaking of animal cruelty) most of them would probably have switched off about ten seconds into the scene where Crackers fucks that chicken to death.

[tomselleck69]

Nekromantik 1 & 2 and Pink Flamingos are listed as "honorable mentions" at the bottom.

[KharBevNor]

I'd say Nekromantik was worse than half the films on that list personally.

[Ishotdanieljohnston]

one of my freinds has been trying to get me to see CH with him for an age. I'm scared...

[KharBevNor]

he cinematography is surprisingly good.

It's a Pasolini film. Next thing you'll be telling me that you're surprised a Herzog film offers such cynical insight into the human condition.

[Dimmukane]

Never seen Herzog.  Been meaning to get around to it, but if you say his stuff is cynical, I'm gonna watch as many as I can back to back this Saturday.

[Jackie Blue]

I'm not calling them bollocks.  I'm just saying that all the people who 'watch it for the commentary it provides' are just lying to themselves.

I hated Hostel.  The torture scene was the least interesting part of Audition to me.  Don't be a Thought Cop.

I'm not saying the commentary in Cannibal Holocaust was particularly intentional or planned, just that it's there.  Things can have accidental repercussions, as evidenced by this very thread.

[Liz]

I would hope not. I have yet so see it and I plan to keep it that way. I have not heard good things.

[KvP]

Well, in the same way that the zombie movies of yesteryear were largely about Vietnam and that jazz, the torture porn movies are purportedly about post-9/11 anxiety or torture used against suspected terrorists or whatever.

[öde]

If it is milky tea (brown/white) then that aspect represents the immigration and racial mixing facilitated by the empire. The soggy end of the biscuit dropping to the bottom of the cup represents the empire biting off more than it can chew. The sugar shows the effort to cover up the bitter aspects.

Race to the Tate Modern!

[Scandanavian War Machine]

Private Military Defense Contracts?

British Government: "Save us, giant corporations!"

[Jackie Blue]

I don't think that analysing things regardless of the intentions in their creation is a bad thing.  Did the Beatles set out with the intention of changing pop music?  Did the Velvet Underground sit down and say "Now look, no one will listen to us now, but let's make some tunes that will make perfect sense in, oh, 20 or 30 years"?

[Jackie Blue]

I would say that analysing anything and everything is a running background process in my brain and I don't think I can shut it off.

[Dimmukane]

So I actually watched Cannibal Holocaust yesterday.

That turtle was like soup.

[Ikrik]

Holy shit....wasn't it!?  Like when they sort of moved it around and it jiggled like jelly.....that seriously messed me up.

There's something about these movies that really makes me feel......alive.  I feel so disgusted and sick watching them and I think to myself "hey...I'm not jaded, I'm sickened by this....there's hope for me yet."  So while watching Cannibal Holocaust disgusted me I've been searching for more movies like it.  So far I'm downloading:
Ichi the Killer
Guinea Pig (2,4,6)
The August Underground Collection
Salo, Or 120 Days of Sodom
Men Behind the Sun
Murder, Set, Pieces
and Yakuza's Law

And as much as I feel like a hypocrite for starting this thread being all outraged and stuff I'm probably going to check out all the films that have been discussed.

[Jackie Blue]

If you haven't seen Begotten, you kind of need to.  It's easily the most disturbing thing that's been mentioned in this thread.

Tetsuo the Iron Man is another great one, though that works on a lot of different levels, not just "disturbing".

[Johnny C]

There's something about these movies that really makes me feel......alive.  I feel so disgusted and sick watching them and I think to myself "hey...I'm not jaded, I'm sickened by this....there's hope for me yet."

Careful kid, you sound like someone who just loves how excited crack makes him.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

Horses at the beginning of an early russian film that I can't remember the name of...

Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev, possibly?

Several scenes within the film depict violence, torture and cruelty toward animals, leading to controversy and censorship attempts upon completion of the film. Most of these scenes took place during the raid of Vladimir, showing for example the blinding and the torture of a peasant. Most of the scenes involving cruelty toward animals were simulated. For example, during the Tatar raid of Vladimir a cow is set on fire. In reality the cow had an asbestos-covered coat and was not harmed. However, one scene depicts a the real death of a horse. The horse falls from a flight of stairs and is then stabbed by a spear. To produce this image, the horse was shot in the neck and pushed from the stairs, then shot in the head afterward. This was done to avoid the possibility of harming a stunt horse. The horse was brought in from a slaughterhouse, killed on set, and then returned to the slaughterhouse for commercial consumption. In a 1967 interview for Literaturnoe obozrenie, interviewer Aleksandr Lipkov suggested to Tarkovsky that "the cruelty in the film is shown precisely to shock and stun the viewers. And this may even repel them." To this Tarkovsky responded: "No, I don't agree. This does not hinder viewer perception. Moreover we did all this quite sensitively. I can name films that show much more cruel things, compared to which ours looks quite modest."

[KharBevNor]

Tetsuo the Iron Man is another great one, though that works on a lot of different levels, not just "disturbing".

I wouldn't really describe Tetsuo as similiar to the other films mentioned.

[Ikrik]

remind me to never take crack then, and the thought sounds a lot less creepy in my head.  The point is I like the films...even though they sicken me.

Tetsuo was......weird and really confusing.  It's kind of short too, isn't it only 58 minutes or something?  I watched it five or six months ago and I really enjoyed it, even though it confused the living hell out of me.

Guinea Pig 2 is like Hostel?  No way.....don't tell me that I'm going to sleep through it.