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Author Topic: A thread about psychedelics  (Read 9487 times)

onewheelwizzard

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A thread about psychedelics
« on: 06 Jun 2008, 13:07 »

So as many of you, particularly those who have been around these parts for quite a while and/or frequent the music forum, are aware, I am someone who uses, thinks about, studies, and sometimes goes so far as to endorse psychedelic drugs.  For the most part I tend to keep relatively quiet about this ... there's a great deal of stigma surrounding psychedelic drug use, as well as various legal issues (specifically the fact that most, though not all, of them are very illegal), and generally when someone speaks up about their drug experiences, especially if they talk about them in a positive light, others tend to find it very easy to ignore or even actively discredit them.  However, I've recently had a few experiences with psychedelics that I have found myself unable to keep quiet about, due to the overwhelmingly positive impact that they have had on my life.  I no longer feel that putting my credibility at risk (or even for that matter my physical freedom, although I must admit to not being particularly worried about that) is an unreasonable sacrifice to make in the name of spreading knowledge and understanding about these substances and what they are capable of doing to help a human being.

(In case this little intro paragraph doesn't make it clear, this is probably going to be very much a tl;dr thread for many people here ... I'm only expecting a small percentage of the forum population to take part in this thread, although I am open to being pleasantly surprised.  I take this issue more seriously than probably any other topic of internet discussion, by a pretty wide margin, so expect long-winded and possibly overly technical posts from me on this thread.  If you're not interested, no worries.)

I've experimented with a variety of psychedelics (specifically LSD, psilocybin/mushrooms, MDMA, crystal DMT, 2C-B, 2C-E, salvia divinorum, and a sub-psychedelic experience with ketamine), in a variety of situations, with a variety of people, for a variety of reasons, and with varying results.  However, it's only recently that I feel as if I've started to learn how to take drugs properly, so to speak.  In specific, several recent drug experiences I've had over the past month or two have convinced me beyond the merest shadow of a doubt of something I've suspected for years, which is that psychedelics absolutely do have the capacity to facilitate incredibly powerful healing as well as the development of extremely close and mutually supportive interpersonal relationships, and furthermore, can ultimately bring people into awareness of inexpressible spiritual realities otherwise only accessible to devout practitioners of spiritual disciplines such as meditation.  They can act as medicine, religious sacrament, psychotherapy, and performance enhancement for anyone whose line of work requires creativity, among many other things, and in many of these cases they perform in these roles better than any other agent known to man.

The rational people reading this probably now understand why I tend to keep quiet!  These are very strong statements, and while I've defended statements like these for years based on research and secondhand accounts, it's only now that I feel "qualified" to do so, having personally experienced or witnessed amazing success personally in each of these areas.

Since I'm well on my way towards writing an essay that even the most patient forumite would probably find trying, I'm going to cut myself off soon, but not before recounting a few aspects of an experience I had very recently that affirmed my beliefs in an extraordinarily powerful fashion.  On Tuesday evening, I drank tea made from some Panaeoulus tropicalis mushrooms that were grown by a friend of mine.  This particular species is known for being extremely potent, and brewing mushroom tea, as opposed to simply eating dried mushroom matter, is known to heighten the dose-response curve of the drug as well, so I knew I was setting myself up for something pretty intense.  What ended up happening was by far the most powerfully affecting experience I may have ever had in my life.  As pretentious and hippy-dippy as this sounds, I really do think I understand something fundamental about the universe in a way I didn't before, and I do believe that the depth to which this experience has affected my life for the better is something I have only begun to understand.  Believe me, I'm extremely reluctant to say something like that without allowing it to be even the tiniest bit of playful bullshit, but the intensity of the trip was such that I find no satisfactory alternative.

To fully explain the story of this experience would take at least as long as this post already is, and that would be far too long for a topic-starting post ... as it is I've probably pushed a lot of people's patience.  I'm going to hold myself back (for the time being) from writing the tracts and tracts that I would like to vomit into this thread, and see what reactions or questions are raised before going further.  But, uh, yeah, if I'm not the only person on the forum who wants to talk about this, let's talk!
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Scandanavian War Machine

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #1 on: 06 Jun 2008, 13:40 »

have i ever mentioned that you're my favorite forumer?

anyway, i fully support this thread. psilocybin is one of my greatest joys in the world and although i've never tried any of the other things you mentioned, i've meaning to try LSD and Salvia for a while now but have been waiting for the sunshine to reappear.

i'd love to hear about your experience because it sounds pretty powerful and like it would be a great thing to read. i'm sure i'm not alone, right guys?
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #2 on: 06 Jun 2008, 13:41 »

The only drugs I've done are pot and LSD, the former I found underwhelming/pointless, and the latter I found to be pretty amazing. However, I don't make it a habit of doing any illicit substances, and I generally drink sparingly as well, except for wine, which I have a glass of often. The effects of LSD are generally uniformly positive for me, as cliche as the phrase "mind-expanding" is, that's really the best way to describe it. However, I meditate often and intensely, if meditation can ever be described as such, and I prefer to reach those heightened states of awareness, insight and clarity (mindfulness) through the power of my mind, rather than relying on outside substances.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #3 on: 06 Jun 2008, 13:46 »

i'm headed to a local art/music camping festival called Aesthetic Evolution here in a couple weeks and I'll probably get a light fry going on while I'm there. It's mostly electronic music so I dunno how I'm gonna really enjoy myself.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #4 on: 06 Jun 2008, 14:00 »

i'm sure i'm not alone, right guys?

Nope!

I wouldn't call MDMA a spiritual drug from my experience of it, but it was certainly fun and nice, and I've read about it helping people. I would like some shrooms, or peyote, but they're almost impossible to get here and it's probably not the right time in my life to take them. Or maybe it is!
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onewheelwizzard

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #5 on: 06 Jun 2008, 14:14 »

The effects of LSD are generally uniformly positive for me, as cliche as the phrase "mind-expanding" is, that's really the best way to describe it. However, I meditate often and intensely, if meditation can ever be described as such, and I prefer to reach those heightened states of awareness, insight and clarity (mindfulness) through the power of my mind, rather than relying on outside substances.

From the point of view of a psychedelic advocate, I would say that applying a meditative approach to the use of a psychedelic would likely be a benefit to both aspects of the resulting experience, and that treating psychedelics as a tool for expanding the limits of one's meditative practice, rather than as a crutch to be avoided, could potentially be rewarding.  (I know that Tibetan monks have participated in experiments with MDMA and LSD before, with neutral-to-positive results.)

However, from the more general point of view of a person who pursues spiritual consciousness, I would say that being an active meditator is probably a much more important factor than using drugs, and that if eschewing drug use is working for you, it's probably a good choice.  Possibly not the only good choice, but a good choice.

Edit: aside to öde, since I already mentioned it in this post ... there are several reasons why MDMA can be seen as a spiritual substance, but it kind of relies on the user intending it for spiritual use first and foremost.  For instance, it helps with meditation because it blurs the distinction between mind and body, which is a fairly universal aspect of spiritual experience in some form or another and so lends itself really well to spiritual practice.  I've never devoted an entire MDMA session to meditation, but I have meditated while under its influence, and the two definitely enhance each other.
« Last Edit: 06 Jun 2008, 14:22 by onewheelwizzard »
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #6 on: 06 Jun 2008, 14:59 »

i'm headed to a local art/music camping festival called Aesthetic Evolution here in a couple weeks and I'll probably get a light fry going on while I'm there. It's mostly electronic music so I dunno how I'm gonna really enjoy myself.

Double drop ecstacy every three or four hours. Put enough E in me and I'll dance to a dripping tap.

Much fun as I've had with psychedelic drugs (which I would generally split into two groups: 'ritual' ie Salvia Divinorum, Psilocybin, Mescaline and Peyote and 'recreational' ie MDMA/E, Ketamine*, Marijuana) I do feel it would be remiss if at some point in this thread we did not mention the fact that, though yes they can bring much joy and revelation, they can, though admittedly much more rarely, and almost always as a result of blatant abuse, also drive you absolutely batshit insane.


*Though I would personally hesitate to call Ketamine 'recreational' as the first and only time I ever took it I thought I died, easily my second worst drug experience: I don't think anything is ever going to top dramamine.
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onewheelwizzard

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #7 on: 06 Jun 2008, 23:59 »

I do feel it would be remiss if at some point in this thread we did not mention the fact that, though yes they can bring much joy and revelation, they can, though admittedly much more rarely, and almost always as a result of blatant abuse, also drive you absolutely batshit insane.

Yeah, this basically sums it up.  Personality disorders can be either healed or worsened under the influence of psychedelics, depending on how the trip is approached, handled, and supported.  Disorders like PSTD, OCD, and anxiety disorders can be treated successfully by psychedelic therapists, but anyone who has any tendencies towards a personality disorder and ends up abusing the drug in a scenario that makes for an extremely negative experience is probably not going to come away from it unscathed.

My personal experiences with bad trips is that they are opportunities for healing if approached correctly.  I actually had a friend go batshit insane on a psychedelic drug once while I was trip-sitting him (I'd stayed sober due to an impending exam).  I feel absolutely sure that if the two of us had not handled the experience the way we did, he would've spent at least a few days in a mental hospital, if not a matter of weeks or months ... in a nutshell, he manifested an entirely separate personality, a la Fight Club and we had to deal with it somehow.  It was only by virtue of the two of us having been very close friends and seasoned tripping companions that we were able to work his life out so that it made sense and he could direct his actions without feeling like he was in competition with himself (it was pretty serious, he was using two different voices, sets of mannerisms, and for that matter wrestling with himself physically, and even going so far as to put his hands around my neck as if to strangle me, just short of actually cutting off my airflow).  The way it worked out, it actually became a healing experience for him and he's now significantly MORE sane than he had been beforehand.  (I keep using the word "healing," I think it's the most accurate for what I'm trying to say ... "psychological recovery" would be the scientific term, I guess, but I don't like it.)

Talking about psychedelics without mentioning the risks of abuse, though, is like teaching a driving class without bothering to mention that you shouldn't drive if you've been drinking, and to extend the metaphor, a certain number of people are spiritual alcoholics.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #8 on: 07 Jun 2008, 01:13 »

The topic of this thread fascinates me greatly. Drugs and their effect on society have always been somewhat of a mystery for me, since media only talks about drug abuse and criminality related to drugs, without mentioning the people who use psychedelics and still remain (or become even more) functional members of their society. Of course, the greatest reason for this is the lack of studies made on the subject, studies which could very well show that, instead of drugs ruining ones life on that instant, they can also result in fascinating sensations like those experienced by onewheelwizzard.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #9 on: 07 Jun 2008, 01:16 »

Okay maybe somebody can clear this up for me.  I've heard recently that Salvia is legal in the state of Maryland, so I'm assuming it's also legal elsewhere.  I was in Ocean City a few days ago and I saw a few neon signs that appeared to say "Salvia sold here!" so it looks like it is.

Is it legal here/elsewhere?  Also I hear it does some wild shit to a person.  The first explanation I got was "it's this weird-ass drug that makes you think you're the floor or some shit."
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #10 on: 07 Jun 2008, 02:00 »

i think it's legal in most states. i know it's legal here in Washington.
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clockworkjames

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #11 on: 07 Jun 2008, 02:37 »

Sometimes I trip bad on weed, which is weird because I smoke a fair bit of it. The only weird thing is that sometimes it feels surreal and stuff happens that makes me question things alot more, I like it it's like the best TV show ever in my brain. Have you documented any of your experiences? Care to share? I would but when I am really bombed I cannot type or write. I'm lazy enough when not high.

I know weed is not really a psychedelic drug, but it does mind altering stuff to me that I was reminded of when you stated that you began to "understand something fundamental about the universe in a way (you) didn't before" because I think it is awesome you experienced it but I know I most likely never will because I am not happy trying it rite now. I guess you could say I am too scared.

As for the drugs you mentioned, I stay away from lsd and stuff because I don't know how well I would handle it since I know how I can be on weed (Quiet, sit there doing NOTHING but mind racing) and other drugs I have taken have had little or no effect on me (MDMA/E/Speed). I know the risks, and of what I have taken I know speed is the most potentially fatal due not just to the chemicals put into it but also what it does to your body, total LAN drug though. Keeps you up and in many cases improves performance and you can tell why.

Oh and Salvia, that was not great, a friend got shit scared, started to get a little freaked out at his skin and shit. Never really saw the point to be honest.
« Last Edit: 07 Jun 2008, 02:43 by clockworkjames »
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KharBevNor

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #12 on: 07 Jun 2008, 03:32 »

Is it legal here/elsewhere?  Also I hear it does some wild shit to a person.  The first explanation I got was "it's this weird-ass drug that makes you think you're the floor or some shit."

It's legal in the UK. My experience with Salvia is that it changes your perception of objects and lets you percieve relationships between them, though these relationships might not actually be meaningful. Some people may have been on gabbly when I was making my one day album, during the process of which I took ecstacy, weed and salvia, where at one point I started t y p i n g e v e r y t h i n g l i k e t h i s because the letters needed space to breathe. Another example would be a time I was experimenting and I tried completing sudoku puzzles under the influence of it. When I was under the drugs effects, it seemed like I was actually seeing the logical connections, and I was completing hard level puzzles in about a minute. However, when I reviewed my efforts sober, I found that not only had I solved the puzzles incorrectly, but I had used letters, punctuation marks, primitive shapes and in one case had just drawn lines all over the puzzle. I also find salvia can have pretty wierd effects over your perception of your own body. I've had some similiar effects with MDMA/E, a perception that my limbs have changed length or mass, or that parts of my body are no longer physically connected to each other. I also have this thing, which I think may be a personal hang-up, where things turn into insects. In one extreme case, my skin turned into spiders. However, strangely, it was in no way scary: for me, at least, Salvia seems impossible of giving a bad trip, no matter how fucked up the imagery becomes. I have no idea if this is true for anyone. I don't know any other people who really use salvia: most people seem to try it once and give up because it has little or no effect on them, generally because they use a low-strength extract (or even un-refined leaves, which you practically have to eat by the pound) and smoke it in a joint. Salvia requires a much higher temperature than nicotine or THC to be released, so you either need to use a pipe, or a carefully packed joint with a hot burning tobacco (ie drum gold) and a relatively high extract strength (I prefer 30x, though it is damn expensive).
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onewheelwizzard

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #13 on: 07 Jun 2008, 05:28 »

Salvia is capable of doing some fucked up shit to a person.  It is currently the only psychedelic to have given me an experience that was genuinely terrible ... I took it a few times with less than impressive results, but the last time I did it (which was more than two years ago) it took me out of my body entirely for 5 minutes and thrust me into a completely different universe, one that was literally composed out of these bizarre little amoeba entities that *vocally and unanimously* hated and rejected and mocked me.  After coming out of this trance, my skin felt hot, clammy, and two sizes too small, and I was having trouble trusting my friends who had been with me when I took it.  It was, to this day, the most intensely uncomfortable experience I've ever had ... uncomfortable in a way that was not explicitly painful but was more intense than most feelings of pain I've ever felt.  The only lesson I learned from salvia was not to fuck around with it again anytime soon, but at the time it was by far the clearest and most obvious lesson I'd learned from any drug.

Salvia is mysteriously completely inactive in a certain portion of the population.  It's insanely powerful for others, but I can't feel comfortable recommending it to anyone after what it did to me.  The way I would describe it now, with a couple years of experience and retrospection, is that it's great if you don't mind not having any fun.  Salvia is not fun even when it is a good experience (which I can imagine it being, somewhat ... since it has a jack-out-of-the-matrix effect in high doses that is similar to that of the grandaddy of all psychedelics, crystal DMT, it's definitely powerful, and with that power comes the potential for something really meaningful, but it's also completely unpredictable and will probably be close to incomprehensible to people who are not already very well-versed in how weird an altered state of consciousness can be).  At the time I took it last I was not prepared to deal with it at all ... I feel like I could revisit it now and get something good out of the experience but I have very little desire to.  The bottom line is that salvia is just immeasurably weird and in my opinion should probably not be approached as a "recreational substance" in any way.  Like I said, out of all the things it might be, fun is not going to be one of them.

Right now the only interest I have in salvia is that at some point I want to get my hands on a quid of fresh leaves so I can chew it for an hour or two.  Apparently this was the traditional shamanic method of using salvia, and the trance state it puts a person in is much more manageable than the rollercoaster ride that results in the 5 minutes after smoking a high dose.  Either way, though, salvia is generally just a little too bizarre to be actively enjoyed by anyone but the hardest-core psychonaut.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #14 on: 07 Jun 2008, 06:18 »

My only experiences with psychedelics thus far have been null, but I remain optimistic.
-Hawaiian Baby Woodrose: Prepared two different ways (both should have worked, medium-heavy dose), got nothing both times.
-Salvia: Nothing, guess I didn't get it hot enough.

This summer I will try and hunt down some Psilocybin mushrooms.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #15 on: 07 Jun 2008, 08:09 »

That's pretty crazy wizard. Personally, with Salvia, I have never got to that stage where you are no longer aware what is real and what is not, which is somewhere I've only been once, with the aforementioned Dramamine.

Also, salvia also actually tends to make me quite giggly. It also makes me spit a lot.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #16 on: 07 Jun 2008, 08:33 »

have i ever mentioned that you're my favorite forumer?

second'd.

in all honesty i am basically terrified of drugs. mostly i smoked a lot of pot as a teenager but have also done mushrooms, pcp and salvia at various points. salvia made me think there were six of me, simultaneously, in six different rooms. all of them weren't very good experiences so i've sort of just quit altogether but i do wish more people could take the attitude where just because you don't enjoy something doesn't mean no one else should be allowed to. i mean, i smoke which is basically the biggest waste of money and thousands of times worse for you than any psychedelic drug could ever be. most of my fear of drugs comes from the fact that i'm the type of person who really doesn't cope well when i can't control what's happening around me but obviously lots of people can. i guess this whole post is kind of preaching to the choir since it seems most people here would agree but it's just one of those things i find to be really, really obvious and it kind of baffles me when other people don't see it.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #17 on: 07 Jun 2008, 08:53 »

My experiences have been mostly positive.  I feel that I've only had one experience that if it had gone wrong, would've been a 'bad trip', though.

I smoke pot maybe twice a week (now that school's out, while it's on, maybe twice a month if I was lucky).  I've only ever done E, P. Cubensis and LSD outside of that.  

I started with the P. Cubensis, with 4 other people and a friend who was dating one of the 4 (she has epilepsy, so she only does E from time to time).  We began by watching The Magical Mystery Tour, which basically put me into a state of ego loss.  At one point I think the picture on the screen extended out so that it was all I could see (the General who talks in gibberish part).  At another point I kept asking the sober girl if I was breathing because I couldn't tell.  It was interesting watching everything be.  The tan shag carpet was flowing in waves, I laid under the Christmas tree and thought I was in space.  I kept looking at the clock, but at some point it appeared as if it was broken (the lines the numbers were made out of were in all the wrong places), so I stopped watching.  The aforementioned girl started drawing highlighter tattoos on one of my friends in a blacklit room, and when the dragon on his chest started to breathe fire I decided to go watch TV.  A lot of other stuff happened involving mirrors and an empty glass, but it would take a while to type it all out.  It was the most powerful of the experiences I've had.  I never felt like I learned anything from it, though.  I haven't had any shrooms since, but I'm open to doing it again with a smaller dose (everybody had 1/10 of an oz.)

I did some very strange E once.  I had a white superman that gave me a small stomachache and a green lady that had me loving everything for about 2 hours.  Endo story.

I have done LSD several times (I think 10), though.  I tend to take it in the evening, usually after 4, and just kinda relax with friends who are also doing it.  I've seen some crazy stuff, but I never felt like that was the point.  I always feel like I've learned something afterwards, but that I can never put words to what it was.  However, I think that as a side effect, whenever I get really stoned I have mild flashbacks.  There's a lot to those experiences that are important, but I have trouble communicating those things because I find that I'm always concentrating on each individual moment of the trip as it comes, and never have time to formulate ideas from those moments.

I do think that, for whatever reason, it has made me far better at reading people.  Last night I turned down a definite chance at losing my virginity because I knew that at some point in the future I was going to dump her and it wouldn't be pretty and possibly wreck the circle of friends that I have.  Before I had done LSD (and I do think it was the LSD), I wouldn't have turned her down because I would've been too excited at having that chance.  I guess the acid also helped me realize that personal gain isn't everything, as well.  I'm beating myself up for it a little today, but I still think it was for the best.

I probably have more to talk about in this subject, but I don't want to write a book.  I'll just finish by saying I'm probably gonna do something this summer.

And also, Starscape is tonight.  I won't be going, but it's basically Baltimore's biggest rave, you can get practically anything you want there.  I think you can buy tickets at the gate for 65$.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #18 on: 07 Jun 2008, 09:37 »

From all the tripping experiences I've heard people talk about, the way that it changed them in a way they can't explain and how it altered their perception of the world. To me this sounds like reading a really good book, but maybe I'm just a literature junkie, who knows, I thought I'd just throw it out.

Personally I've never used psychedelics, though I am interested in them. I've had one chance in the past to do shrooms but I chose not to because it would have meant leaving one person sober and the other 4 tripping, which I would have felt bad about. Psychs do freak me out a bit though and I don't think I'd ever do them regularly, I'm just looking for a chance to experience the feelings.
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clockworkjames

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #19 on: 07 Jun 2008, 09:47 »

From all the tripping experiences I've heard people talk about, the way that it changed them in a way they can't explain and how it altered their perception of the world. To me this sounds like reading a really good book,

It's like the best movie and tv show you ever watched all rolled into one night of skullfuckery and a greater understanding.

This is the reason I do it, it's so much fun and amazing alot of the time.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #20 on: 07 Jun 2008, 09:59 »

That's why I started with them, was to see what all the hype was.  Now that I've done it a few times, I do it more to get closer to my friends.  I've had some outright magical experiences that wouldn't have been nearly as special if I had been experiencing them by myself.  And I've had magical experiences by myself.

I'm going to try to describe how I feel psychedelics have altered my perception:  I now notice a lot of the interactions people and things have and the effects these interactions have on their lives/existences.  I try to take these kinds of things into account when I'm making choices that I deem important, like the situation I had last night in my other post.

There have been other changes to how I think, but I think that that is the major difference between me before and after doing LSD.  It has also affected how I watch movies and listen to music, which is one of the reasons I now visit these forums.


Edit:  Posting in this thread has been strangely cathartic for me.  I guess I should thank somebody?  Onewheel, you are RAD.


For those of you interested in reading about experiences, both good and bad, go to Erowid.  It's a database on all sorts of things related to narcotics, but they have an extensive collection of experience stories.  Some of them are awe-inspiring, some of them are depressing, but if you've had interest in the subject, I highly recommend visiting this site; it clears up a lot of the myths the media has spread around and also has extensive information on the laws, typical dosage/effects, etc., etc.
« Last Edit: 07 Jun 2008, 10:02 by Dimmukane »
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #21 on: 07 Jun 2008, 11:25 »

Mr. Bacon, read some Aldous Huxley.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #22 on: 07 Jun 2008, 11:31 »

Ah yes, Huxley has been on my to do list for a little while. I was thinking Brave New World, being his most prolific book, but is there anything else you'd care to recommend? I've just finished reading Fight Club, which was absolutely incredible, and I'm now trying to decide what to read next.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #23 on: 07 Jun 2008, 13:07 »

I really enjoyed After Many a Summer Dies the Swan, but if you're only going to read one Huxley novel, do read Brave New World--it's so widely referenced in popular culture and modern literature that I can guarantee you're missing a lot if you haven't read it.

Regarding salvia, I know two people who've had very bad trips on it (along the "I thought I was dead" line).  I know more people, however, who love it and do it somewhat regularly.  As the drug rises in popularity and begins to permeate the social consciousness (Newsweek recenty ran a scary these-are-the-terrible-things-the-kids-are-doing-nowadays article on it), I can only imagine that more and more states--and countries--will begin to pass laws against it.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #24 on: 07 Jun 2008, 14:49 »

 The old moloko plus.

 That is moloko plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #25 on: 07 Jun 2008, 18:03 »

So I read the beginning of that book the other day, and I was wondering, is the whole book just about being high, wearing silly clothes, and beating people up?

It sounds great.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #26 on: 07 Jun 2008, 18:16 »

It's really, really not about that at all.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #27 on: 07 Jun 2008, 18:23 »

Huh.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #28 on: 07 Jun 2008, 23:12 »

Thanks to everyone who has responded on this thread!  I'm really excited about this reaction to be honest, and I really want to say something about everything anyone has said thus far, but I don't want to bogart the thread with wordy responses (this is going to be one anyway, though).

First off, the Huxley recommendation is perfect.  My personal choices would be The Doors of Perception, which is an account of his first psychedelic experience, when Humphrey Osmond dosed him with mescaline.  it's extremely well-written and provides a good insight into a lot of the implications of taking a psychedelic and what exactly psychedelics actually do to your head.  His follow-up, Heaven and Hell, is also very good.

However, if you want to know what Aldous Huxley is really trying to say about psychedelics, read Island, the last book he wrote before he died (tripping, at that ... he asked his wife to give him acid as he died).  In fact, read Island anyway.  It's his utopian novel (in contrast to Brave New World), and part of the utopia that he envisions is that the use of mushrooms is a religious tradition and used as a rite of passage, as well as medicine in adult life.  It gives a pretty fantastic perspective on spiritual psychedelic use, as well as spirituality in general.  I count it as one of my inspirations, I guess (you know, now that I've actually had one of the experiences that he's trying to write about).

Speaking of which, I haven't actually explained what happened that made me start this thread.  Without further ado I should do that.  This is going to be long, but someone's already favorably compared this to literature, so I feel a good bit better about writing this much at once now.

So on Tuesday evening, my friend (who I'll refer to as A) brewed tea with some mushrooms he had grown and dried, which as I've explained were exceptionally small and potent (we used 88 individual mushrooms, which amounted to a measly 4.5 grams ... to compare, a single Psilocybe cubensis is capable of reaching this weight).  He brewed herbal tea, poured it hot (but not boiling) into a teapot with the ground mushroom matter, insulated the teapot to keep it hot, and let it steep for an hour.  We then split the teapot, adding honey and lemon juice to taste (and, in the case of lemon juice, to potentiate the trip ... lemon juice speeds up the breakdown of psilocybin into psilocin, which is a faster-acting and more visual chemical).  We each smoked a small joint as we drank our mugs of tea, and I remember mentioning that this was how I used to imagine that I would do drugs "when I grew up" (that is to say, with home-grown psychedelics, at a trusted friend's place, in a private rural setting that allows me the freedom to explore any topic at all in my life without worrying about causing disruption to it, etc.)  We started drinking at 6:45 or so.

The tea was incredibly fast-acting and I began to feel it come on 10 minutes after I started drinking it, before I even finished.  By the time I finished the mug, after 15-20 minutes of sipping, smoking, and chatting with A about our upcoming trip, I was already coming up quite strongly, and I was getting pretty significant visual effects within a half hour (this usually takes 50-80 minutes in my experience, and sometimes not even then).  We decided that we wanted to see the sunset, so we climbed a tree.  We ended up admiring the tree itself more than the view.  After a half hour or so (our perception of time was rapidly deteriorating) we climbed down and hung out with the miniature horses who live on his land (they are about 4 feet tall and pretty amazing).

The trip was getting intense enough at this point that I was beginning to find myself getting a bit disoriented, so I decided to lie down in the grass, close my eyes, and admire the closed-eye visuals.  After a very short time, the visuals reached unprecedented intensity and started to become full-fledged visions.  The shifting patterns started to resolve themselves into humanoid figures and architectural landscapes that resembled M.C. Escher landscapes made out of colorful fractals.  I started to lose the feeling that I was a body lying down in a grassy field, but as I started to drift away from body-awareness, the humanoid entites turned towards me as one and began to focus their attention towards me.
(Note: this is the second time I've had an experience like this, the first was my second DMT trip.  The experience of encountering strange entities in particularly strong trips, specifically with DMT but to a lesser extent with mushrooms and salvia as well, is also not unique to me, and terms such as "self-transforming machine elves" have been coined to talk about them.  They seem to be a recurring presence in many people's trips and a variety of strange theories have been produced to explain this phenomenon ... they all sound completely crazy, of course, but then again, they're trying to describe strange entities that consistently appear to people who are under the influence of powerful psychedelics.  People who have seen them will know what each other are talking about.)
Now, since I'd encountered weird drug aliens before, and there was no comedown in sight the way there is in a 5-minute DMT trip, I got excited and started to pay a lot of attention to these beings.  However, they began to exert a great deal of pressure on my head, and it felt as if they were trying to pull it apart.  It was rather unpleasant, and I opened my eyes to get my bearings.  I closed my eyes again upon realizing that the outside world was of absolutely no interest to me at this point, and for the next 15 minutes I would see the entities any time that I had my eyes closed, and they would only get more insistent in their attempts to deconstruct me.

I was getting a little uncomfortable, so I sat up and started to meditate in the hopes that I could ignore them.  I began to see them as demons trying to disturb my meditations, rather than curious gnomes to try to interact with, and as soon as I started to adapt a "leave me alone" approach to their existence, they began to melt back into the flowing kaleidoscope background and become less defined and eventually dissolve altogether.  At this point I think it's important to explain the shift in consciousness that I'd made.  While it might not seem obvious that lying down and watching visual hallucinations, and sitting up and meditating inside a visual hallucination, are especially different from each other, they're actually in a way opposite from each other.  When I was lying down, trying to drift away from my body and play with the machine elves, I was holding myself as separate from the visions I was experiencing.  I was still considering myself to be a subjective observer, witnessing a phenomenon that was separate from myself, "happening to me."  During my sitting meditation, I was instead trying to expand/constrict my awareness in such a way as to eliminate the subject/object, observer/observed distinction.  I think that when I made the shift from the former to the latter, either the elves realized that I'd gotten the message and figured they had better things to do (or their work was done), or I realized that they had never been real in the first place.  At the moment I'm not sure if there's a difference.

This experience lasted overall about half an hour, I suspect (I don't know for sure).  It was the peak of the trip, of course, and the description I just gave doesn't really do any kind of reasonable justice to the vibrancy of these visions.  In any case, I started to get cold as I meditated, and I was getting a little antsy with the power level of my internal experiences, so I decided to go back indoors so I could figure things out in more detail.  Me and A went back into his house a little after 8.  At 8:30, as we were sitting in his living room, each tripping a bit too hard to have coherent conversation (and therefore abstaining), the funniest and most absurd thing that has ever happened in my life happened.

His TV, as programmed by his TiVo (I believe), spontaneously turned on, and immediately a commercial for the show "The Moment of Truth" aired.  For those who aren't familiar with it, "The Moment of Truth" is a game show in which contestants answer extremely personal questions while hooked up to a lie-detector test in front of a studio audience, and also in front of the very people in their lives who are most likely to be upset at the answers (a link about it, it's pretty bad).  And lo and behold, the first thing the TV says is "Have you ever felt a sexual attraction towards your friend Joe?" and it slams "THE MOMENT OF TRUTH" onto the screen with a bunch of big sound effects.  And Joe's my name.  So basically me and my friend took a shitload of strong mushrooms and then the TV turned on without warning, proclaimed it to be "the moment of truth," and asked him if he had ever wanted to have sex with me.  The level of absurdity was almost too much to take, and to be honest we didn't say more than 3 or 4 sentences to each other for the rest of the night.  Awkward?  Well, not really.

The 3 or 4 hours that we spent saying nothing to each other after we turned off the TV were actually incredibly glowing experiences for both of us.  For my part, I was enjoying the full effect of the meditative state I'd reached earlier that evening.  I was supremely physically relaxed.  I felt very strongly as if there had been a constant level of tension throughout my entire body, and I had only just then allowed it to ease and relax.  It actually felt like a high MDMA dose, in that my body, and all my senses, felt exquisitely sensitive.  I was absolutely wide open to the world in every way, perceiving everything with a level of vibrancy and clarity that was unprecedented in my life.  Furthermore, this physically relaxation and sensitivity corresponded perfectly to an emotional relaxation and sensitivity such that I no longer even understood what it meant to be upset, angry, or fearful.  These emotional responses seemed to me to be self-evidently complete wastes of emotional energy in pursuit of flawed and illusory ideals that distort and cheapen reality.  I have never felt anything even remotely as peaceful as this mind/body state of absolute relaxation and serenity.  I knew that, for as long as I was in this state (which felt very much like it would persist beyond the drug's influence, which I'm happy to say it has to some extent), I couldn't possibly feel fear of death, anger, spite, malice, or jealousy.  I was as emotionally secure/flexible (they come hand in hand) as I have ever been.

Just to top the whole thing off, my physical relaxation and emotional relaxation could join together if I paid attention to them the right way, resulting in waves of ecstasy the likes of which I haven't experienced in the best sex I've ever had (which is saying a LOT), nor in the most powerful trip experiences I've ever undergone.  It felt like I was dissolving into an infinite field of pure good, there's no other way to put it.  It was so impossibly pleasurable and fulfilling that I feel absolutely secure and safe saying that, if the entire world knew that such an experience was possible, and understood what was necessary to reach it, world peace would be instantaneous and effortless.

I had a lot of really interesting thoughts over the course of the evening after the incident with the TV, and I probably actually could write a small book about what I thought about during those few hours.  But the important thing is that the trip plateau was characterized by feelings of tranquility, good will, and well-being that were so deep and clear that I believe they could only have arisen from a genuine change in the fundamental beliefs I have about the world, or perhaps they *constituted* such a change ... all I know is that the amount of respect I have just gained for reality as a whole has just increased immeasurably, and the attitude I am inclined to take towards the world right now feels more healthy and supportive than it has ever been.  I feel as if I've had a direct experience of what reality is at its core, and it is infinite, unified, and perfect.

It was pretty intense!  I think people might understand now why I thought this was worth a thread.

(Also, Tania and Scandinavian War Machine (whose name I forget, so sorry), thank you!  I appreciate that a lot.  I like you guys a lot too!)
« Last Edit: 07 Jun 2008, 23:17 by onewheelwizzard »
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KharBevNor

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #29 on: 08 Jun 2008, 01:28 »

Sounds like a good trip.

Semi-tangent, has anyone else ever used a dream machine? One of my wierder mates has one. If you want to get a taster of what psychedelic drugs are like, without ingesting anything, try one of them.

Use one under the influence, and holy SHIT...
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johnny5

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #30 on: 08 Jun 2008, 02:28 »

great thread so far, very informative. i've had the opprotunity to take lsd a few times but each time i didn't feel comfortable in the surroundings to be doing it. I've also taken shrooms but i pussied out again and only took enough both times to get silly and giggly, but not full on tripping. mdma (sometimes just mda) i've taken a lot more of. i've only been to one rave and i actually HATED it. too crowded, the music was not my scene...but the girls were hot. usually i'll take it alone or with a few friends and then go swimming or something.

i've also tried salvia about 4 times and it's a crazy like/dislike with it. it makes me really reallly giggly, but at the same time, i feel like i'm splitting apart...once i described it as my life turned into an animation and i could feel and see each frame as it came along. i could feel my face being split or "framed" and i was fighting to break free, so to speak. I was convinced the TV was talking about me, and i tried standing up - bad mistake. I tumbled over in a few seconds, just laughing as hard as i could, even though i was kind of freaked out. the first time was the strongest because no one told me it takes about 30 seconds for it to hit - i hit a load, didn't feel anything, packed another and right when i finished it, the first one hit. currently i believe it's legal in most states, lawmakers are trying to change that here.

last edit: i do have to say though, i haven't taken hard drugs for a couple of months...the last time i went nuts, it was because everything was readily available...well, you guys all know what i mean when i say i got REALLY tired of seeing the same informercials weekend after weekend
« Last Edit: 08 Jun 2008, 02:55 by johnny5 »
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #31 on: 08 Jun 2008, 08:19 »

I got a chance to use a dream machine on acid a few weeks ago.  Holy dump, is that thing cool.  I only had the chance to wear it for a few minutes, but I got a taste of what a good 20-minute session would be like.  It's a pretty intense contraption.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #32 on: 08 Jun 2008, 10:08 »

Ah, no, I meant one of these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEUOYo0GhOg

The flicker rate is impossible to record, of course, so it's rather hard to imagine the effect from the video. Also, you're supposed to look at it with your eyes shut.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #33 on: 08 Jun 2008, 10:14 »

No, I know what you were talking about.  The last rave I went to, I met a guy who was carrying around a box in his pocket that was hooked up to a set of sunglasses and a set of headphones.  The sunglasses had LEDs on the insides of the lenses, and the box was a control setup that allowed you to modulate the frequency with which they strobed leftirghtleftrightleftright onto your closed eyelids.  The headphones were playing binaural beats (basically the same thing as a dream machine but for your ears).  Basically it was a dream machine simulator with a whole bunch of control switches, presets, etc.  It was really fucking sweet.  I think he called it a set of "Brainwave goggles," he'd bought it online from a company in California.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #34 on: 08 Jun 2008, 10:29 »

Huh.

It's more like "Nature over nurture" and how society can shape people - to put it simply.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #35 on: 08 Jun 2008, 10:41 »

Whoa. What exactly is a dream machine? I've looked at a couple of youtube videos linked to the one posted here, but I'm not really grasping what the point of it is. It definitely looks trippy/fascinating, though.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #36 on: 08 Jun 2008, 10:56 »

The original dream machine was a perforated tube, sitting on a turntable, with a light suspended in the middle of it.  The premise behind a dream machine is that if you stimulate the visual field by strobing light to alternating eyes at a certain frequency, you can alter the frequency of your brainwave activity and sync it to the machine, and since different mind/brain states (such as REM sleep, slow-wave sleep, meditation, and wakefulness) each correspond to different frequencies in EEG activity, using a dream machine to alter your brain activity is basically like putting yourself in a trance state of your choice depending on what frequency the dream machine is set up to strobe at.  That's the idealized premise, anyway.  I'm not sure how much study has been done on them.  I do know that the man who showed me his electronic dream machine said that it was set up for 20-minute and hour-long meditation sessions, as well as presets intended to put you to sleep for a certain amount of time and that sort of thing.  The visual effect of wearing the thing was really quite amazing, and you can get away with just using a dream machine to watch pretty designs on the backs of your eyelids.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #37 on: 08 Jun 2008, 11:46 »

A bit of topic; but there's something that intrigues me. Every time I visit America-based forum boards with (mostly) american posters, there's always a LOT of people that does/has done drugs. I don't know if it's me who just hang out with the wrong people, or if it's a cultural thing, but that's not even close to the state of things here in Norway. People drink a lot, but drugs are pretty rare.

Is there a lot of drugs amoung young people (the 16-25ish) in the USA? How comon is drugs in your local area?
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #38 on: 08 Jun 2008, 14:32 »

I live in the the Eastern Suburbs of New South Wales, Australia and almost everyone knows where you can get some of anything. What can I say, people get bored down here. I'd have tried marijuana already but if it's not conventional food/air/water and it makes it's way into my system I'm left feeling nauseous, headache-y, tired and sore all over.Thanks Mum!
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #39 on: 08 Jun 2008, 16:12 »

My city, London, has a fairly large society of Cannabis users to it. We have head shops all around the downtown core along with two larger drug shops called "Hi-Times" and "The Organic Traveler", almost anyone who lives here could tell you were to find these shops. Spend a few hours hanging out in our big downtown park and someone will ask if you're interested in buying weed. For 420 several hundred people gathered in this park (which is right next to City Hall) to celebrate. Harder drug use is more difficult to gauge as it isn't as social and is more illegal.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #40 on: 08 Jun 2008, 16:13 »

Some comedians have stated that boredom is a disease and drugs are the cure.  There is some truth to that statement.  That being said, yeah, it's pretty common in the States.  For Scandinavia being scarce, that may be partially due to location.  I imagine it's too cold to grow most of the entheogenic plants, and I imagine smuggling things in might pose some difficulty to some areas (especially those farther up North).  Whereas in the States, we have two countries who export a lot of pot on our borders, and a lot people with at least some knowledge of organic chemistry.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #41 on: 08 Jun 2008, 23:22 »

When I was 17 I spent a month doing Dramamine on enough of a regular basis.  For a year after that while abstaining from everything except tabacco I'd still regularly have visual hullicanations where if I was turning my head I'd get a visual effect that the closest description I can think of is when you're scrolling down looking at an image file that's still loading and there would be this jumps of lag in my head.  Later on when I tried mushrooms of some variety I had what must have been just a small dose of the mushrooms themselves and smoked a fuckton of weed and zoned out playing Super Smash Brothers and the Wind Walker Zelda game for four hours at least.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #42 on: 09 Jun 2008, 04:56 »

I think the most curious thing about my personal reaction to psychedelic drugs is that they have in fact, profoundly influenced my current lack of a real spirituality. This seems to be the exact opposite to every other story I have heard, but when I first began experimenting with them, I was essentially a pagan, I suppose.. My first LSD experience led to me finding a church with that had been left unlocked (unintentionally) and meditating on the altar. It wasn't exactly a moment of clarity or anything so sudden but from that point on I treated subjects of spirituality with great suspicion. This has led to some tensions with other friends who become extremely spiritual on psychedelics because I will admit, I am probably frustrating to be around while trying to discover truths about yourself and the world around you because I am extremely cynical and deconstructionist.

The thing is I still get extremely philosophical and I talk about things that would be completely indistinguishable from a lot of religious experiences on drugs, but I become extremely anal about wording. Once I was trying to describe what I would essentially call Chi, and my friend suggested 'energy' and I told him that was not the right word and got very angry about it towards him. This was immediately followed by us both leaving the room and going elsewhere.

About half an hour later we both found each other on the roof of the nearby shops with an incredible view of the city, by sheer coincidence. We'd both gone up there and we had a massive D&M which really cemented our friendship, and has made him my best tripping buddy to this day. This was on a lot of mushrooms, I believe.

I become very focused by and fascinated by language on psychedelics, but particularly LSD. Its the reason I decided to major in Linguistics at uni actually. Semantic and grammatic rules on what sounds right and what doesn't become fascinating to me and I am always attempting to experiment with them, usually with me sounding like a spoken word version of Finnigans Wake.

I think the most productive use of psychedelics isn't actually spiritual at all (I am not attempting to denigrate the use of psychedelics for spiritual purposes, mind you, its just I have the opposite reaction), its interpersonal and psychological. While the average description of at least the more intense parts of an acid trip includes the term 'Ego-Dissolution' I typically have the exact opposite, although I have had a MDMA/Mushrooms experience that had this effect. Anyway, usually I go into intense psychological introspection and start to look at my neuroses and examine them, giving myself a kind of self-psychotherapy. The thing about this is it doesn't allow you fix any of the problems, it just gives me the ability to peel back the layers of denial that cover them up and observe them. I've had varying success with actually treating these problems later once i've identified them. At times I have managed to, over the course of time, use this information to soberly help my psychological development, but at other times I haven't been able to do anything about them and the fact that i was so powerless to help myself actually arguably made myself worse for a time.

In my interpersonal relationships I find the sheer honesty involved tends to have some interesting effects. MDMA is obviously the staple for this, but the other psychedelics tend to do quite well for this. The reactions to people that I've had these experiences with vary in ways I doubt I would have predicted. Some of the most open people I know have found the experience to be awkward to integrate into our friendship after the effects wear off, and some of the most closed off, emotionally isolated people have become very close to me as a result.

I actually really enjoy the disturbing, schizophrenic trips that seem to pop up time and time again. I certainly am not acting like I am at the time, but whenever they happen, I wind up coming to the realisation a few days later that it is because of conflicts I have in my everyday life, that i need to resolve to shake that terrified feeling you have for a day or two after a bad trip. Sometimes I will deliberately take LSD when I am in a bad emotional state because I'm just not sure what the hell is up with me and I want to find out.

However I think my favourite thing about psychedelics in general is the less insightful part of it. I like the fact that I explore and try interesting new things on psychedelics that I would never even think of doing in my everyday life. On one notorious occasion I saw a really interesting looking house and knocked on the door and asked the person who answered the door if they knew how interesting their house looked. He was actually incredibly pleased to see a barely coherent person compliment them on their house and I was actually invited in for a cup of coffee, and we chatted about his massive collection of books for a while before I left. I've found interesting places in my city that you'd never know exist just walking around on the streets, fascinating little sections of town, little bars and restaurants behind doors you'd never give a second glance to.
« Last Edit: 09 Jun 2008, 05:07 by Hat »
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Scandanavian War Machine

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #43 on: 09 Jun 2008, 11:39 »

i have a pretty interesting text file from some friends and i frying on mushrooms awhile back. basically, i tried to type up everything that was being said around me but, due to my state, couldn't keep up.

i'll try to find the file so you guys can read it. it's definitely good for laughs.



EDIT: my name is Danny, by the way.
« Last Edit: 09 Jun 2008, 11:43 by Scandanavian War Machine »
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #44 on: 09 Jun 2008, 15:42 »

Wow ... Hat, you basically just wrote the post that I would've written on this thread two years ago.  The relationship you describe yourself having with psychedelics is very familiar to me.  When I started to take psychedelics, the approach I most often took was to play devil's advocate to every worldview or philosophical perspective I could.  I also became extremely exacting when it came to the use of language, and I often found myself unwilling to say things that I did not have perfectly accurate vocabulary for.

What you have to say about having a response to LSD that is "the opposite of ego-dissolution," though, is really interesting to me.  See, your accounts describe many of my early LSD experiences perfectly, but I look back now and see those experiences as very clearly being experiences of ego-dissolution.  The fact that my ego was the object of my attention did not mean it was not dissolving ... in fact, your description of getting the clearer picture of your own psyche, and doing self-psychotherapy of sorts, is exactly what I would call a classic ego-dissolution experience, because I believe that gaining a more clear consciousness of yourself, and eliminating the very existence of yourself, are one and the same thing.  Basically, the act of isolating and identifying a neurosis or addiction, even if you don't go on to eliminate it, is still an act of separating that aspect of your ego from what you consider to be your true self, making that concept of your "true self" smaller.  Eventually, any person should theoretically be able to rid themselves of all the baggage that they carry around and call "themselves" ... and I would say that having the experience of figuratively looking down and seeing that you're carrying it is a step in the direction of dropping it.

To be honest, having your ego fully dissolve despite not having noticed all the baggage you're carrying around is an incredibly disorienting experience, and not one that is likely to be particularly useful or interpretable.  My first experience of complete ego loss happened before I'd even started to really ask important questions about myself while tripping, and it made absolutely no sense to me and I didn't even realize what had happened until years later (the second time I took mushrooms, I ended up being forced to go to bed at the peak of it, and ended up losing all concepts of time, space, identity, etc. ... except I didn't understand that this was what was happening, so it was just infinitely confusing, and the only reason I wasn't terrified out of my mind was that I wasn't coherent enough to understand that there was anything weird going on.  If you'd asked me about it then, I would've said "I had an ego-loss experience," but I would've been guessing.)

This is actually why I made the points that I did towards RedLion earlier in the thread about meditation being a more important factor than drug use ... the process of successfully asking questions about yourself doesn't require drug use (even if drug use often prompts it or speeds it up), but drug use, in order to be more than "recreational" experience (which is a term I hate to use because the process of "recreation" is in fact an incredibly important one in my opinion) very much needs it.
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Dimmukane

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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #45 on: 09 Jun 2008, 20:52 »

In case anyone forget the first time and second time I said my name, it's Sean.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #46 on: 09 Jun 2008, 22:42 »

Yeah, onewheel, that's exactly why I tend to put a bigger emphasis on zen and mindfulness meditation, because when I take LSD without having dealt with underlying anxieties and tensions that I have, they tend to pop up. It doesn't necessarily cause a "bad trip," but it actually winds up pulling me back into petty things, rather than expanding my focus. I don't really know how to word this in any other way: I'm a very sensitive person. I've proven to myself and to others my ability to get through just about anything and everything, and it's impossible for me to hold a grudge or sit for hours ruminating on bad possibilities, but the things I feel, I feel very, very deeply. And so when I'm upset or worried about something deep down inside, even if I'm not consciously acknowledging it, it manifests itself in my hallucinations.

Meditation has often had the effect of...how to describe it...it's like a soft, ethereal light that gently enters into me and purges me entirely of those things. It's all dependent on the mind, and the ability to..eh. Damn. Meditating is hard to describe. Because it's not about "taming" the mind. The opposite in fact. I guess, I prefer meditation because it attunes me to the interconnectedness of all existence, the beauty of this, of existence, while also gently soothing away the pains, both emotional and physical, within me.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #47 on: 09 Jun 2008, 23:04 »

it's like a soft, ethereal light that gently enters into me and purges me entirely of those things.

This is literally, almost verbatim, the way I have consistently described my more recent MDMA experiences.  It feels as if the entity I usually call "myself" has been melted away in the heat of a bright, warm light that flows from within me out towards any object or person I interact with.  I no longer act under any sort of pretense ... all of my actions are entirely honest and heartfelt, because they're not mine, instead they're expressions of this light that pervades me.  My body acts as a channel for this light to flow through, instead of being a static container for my neuroses, addictions, and general hang-ups.

In fact, reading your post and inserting the word "drugs" for "meditation" in the second paragraph is a pretty perfectly accurate description of how I've felt about them over the past 6 months to a year or so.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #48 on: 10 Jun 2008, 07:20 »

A bit of topic; but there's something that intrigues me. Every time I visit America-based forum boards with (mostly) american posters, there's always a LOT of people that does/has done drugs. I don't know if it's me who just hang out with the wrong people, or if it's a cultural thing, but that's not even close to the state of things here in Norway. People drink a lot, but drugs are pretty rare.

Is there a lot of drugs amoung young people (the 16-25ish) in the USA? How comon is drugs in your local area?

perhaps it is the culture also, afterall, americans have been using heavy drugs for 50 years now at least. as for me, i first started in highschool but didn't get into the more "serious" drugs until college. i'd say college was the gate-opener for me.
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Re: A thread about psychedelics
« Reply #49 on: 10 Jun 2008, 15:19 »

I don't think there is any more of a drugs culture in the US than anywhere else. It's probably just a function of the US bias on the forums - more USians means more who admit to taking drugs. I know that, in my experience, almost everyone I know takes drugs. Maybe this is also a function of bias? Am I likely to be friends with this sort of people because they are similar to me, even if our first experiences were long after we met? Who knows.

My psychedelic experiences have been... weird. I would almost say they have been all good, but that is not entirely true. I would certainly not advise one's first experience with LSD to be hungover, for example, and bring some comedown material. Some hash would have been nice for the comedown, as I got into a self-reinforcing loop of wanting it to be over which made me feel shit and uncomfortable. Also, it's pretty much the only time I've ever felt uncomfortable around my ex. Nonetheless, I can completely see what people say about the potential for spiritual development or whatever after use - I've certainly noticed a change for the better, more organisation, more determination, and a firm commitment to keeping my house tidy. It's less strong now, but it definitely existed.

Salvia stories can be amazing. Things always seem to take on a fairytale nature with me - colours are vibrant, there are castles, roads, etc. The first time, every angle in the world turned into these creatures called Skellingnaughts, which were a cross between Hungry Hungry Hippos and crocodiles. What I liked most, however, was that, when I started to feel uncomfortable, I was able to find company and bring myself out of the hallucination (although, on reflection, this may have been because it was a weak dose, I don't know).

I'm still more of a person to use things for enjoyment rather than spiritual development, though.
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