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Author Topic: Dragon Age  (Read 135196 times)

Caleb

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #100 on: 09 Nov 2009, 13:23 »

But see, I already have a map. I look at it by pressing "M."

You and I are just two very different people Alex C.

Doesn't anyone else here really really like cloth maps?  Is it just me?
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #101 on: 09 Nov 2009, 13:35 »

I went out and rented this game last night because I'm too broke to buy it. I played for a while as a City Elf Warrior and I kept trying to play as a rogue and that messed me up way too much. So I restarted today as a Noble Dwarf Rogue and I'm actually planning things out a little better this time.
But so far, I love this game to bits. It's so much better than Oblivion.
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Alex C

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #102 on: 09 Nov 2009, 13:50 »

I actually do miss nice manuals and cloth maps and all that crap. I'm just not about to take a map over discounted downloadable content. Although, tbh, I am a tiny bit miffed that we've reached the point already that DLC is a launch day phenomenon. I don't blame bioware for this, mind you, since the robustness of their offerings makes it hard for me to say that I'm not getting my money's worth with a straight face, but overall I find it a somewhat worrisome precedent. Companies that deal in lesser product will find me to be a lot less generous with my gaming dollar.
« Last Edit: 09 Nov 2009, 13:53 by Alex C »
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #103 on: 09 Nov 2009, 13:59 »

I have fallen into the same trap I always do with RPGs of this ilk. I have 4 or 5 characters with 6+ hours put into them. I need to make one and stick with it.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #104 on: 09 Nov 2009, 14:54 »

By contrast, I am in the middle of the endgame with my human Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer and haven't even started another character yet. On the other hand, once I'm done I think I'm just gonna make a character for every other origin and play through them all before deciding which of them to keep going with. I am looking forward to my Human Noble Rogue who I'm basically going to play as a Republican politician dropped into Not-Middle-Earth. Guess who he's gonna be romancing.
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Alex C

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #105 on: 09 Nov 2009, 15:01 »

Depends, by Republican do you mean very religious social conservative hawk who is strongly in favor of military service or do you mean more of a ruthless "the weak got there by their own incompetence" Libertarian kind of mindset? I'm guessing you mean the latter and that you'll be sticking with Morrigan, because honestly I couldn't handle the idea of sticking with Leliana for any length of time. Her voice bothers me for some reason, and I'm normally immune to quirky voice acting.
« Last Edit: 09 Nov 2009, 21:28 by Alex C »
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Johnny C

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #106 on: 09 Nov 2009, 15:19 »

i'm gonna name my dog Cat
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Alex C

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #107 on: 09 Nov 2009, 15:20 »

Why not slide dog?
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #108 on: 09 Nov 2009, 15:20 »

I was actually in the middle of posting, "No!!!! I'm gonna name him SLIDE DOG." All caps.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #109 on: 09 Nov 2009, 15:21 »

"I love A Red-Haired Dog" -my character, Dragon Age: Origins, 2009
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Alex C

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #110 on: 09 Nov 2009, 16:25 »

Actually, I named my latest dog Wojtek, which means he who enjoys war, in honor of a Polish bear who transported ammunition in WWII.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #111 on: 09 Nov 2009, 17:00 »

So does anybody know how to be a Blood Mage? I ended up Shapeshifter / Healer, but I would've liked to have been a Blood Mage.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #112 on: 09 Nov 2009, 21:00 »

Depends, by Republican do you mean very religious social conservative hawk who is strongly in favor of military service or do you mean more of a ruthless "the weak got their by their own incompetence" Libertarian kind of mindset? I'm guessing you mean the latter and that you'll be sticking with Morrigan, because honestly I couldn't handle the idea of sticking with Leliana for any length of time. Her voice bothers me for some reason, and I'm normally immune to quirky voice acting.

Not so much the religious type as much as the "fuck you, got mine" conservative. Basically, he's going to be the most self-serving asshole possible, without any regard for others beyond their immediate use to him. My romance comment was a snide reference to all of the Republican politicians who have been in gay sex scandals after condemning gay marriage. I'll leave you to connect the dots from there.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #113 on: 09 Nov 2009, 21:16 »

Awesome.
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Caleb

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #114 on: 10 Nov 2009, 09:49 »

Sorry to keep posting.

So the downloadable version seems like the best deal but I don't have Internet access at home.  Whenever a game needs online activation I just bring my computer into the library.

So I am looking to get a physical copy in-store (hopefully one will be on sale next week).

Are the special downloadable content things really a huge deal?  Depending on where I get my copy I might be able to get a few of them I know and I will probably haul my computer into the library to get them.  From what I can see they just make the game easier with unique items or add quests and stuff.  Are they really that important?

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #115 on: 10 Nov 2009, 10:05 »

Actually, I named my latest dog Wojtek, which means he who enjoys war, in honor of a Polish bear who transported ammunition in WWII.

I love that bear!

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #116 on: 10 Nov 2009, 12:02 »

Are the special downloadable content things really a huge deal?  Depending on where I get my copy I might be able to get a few of them I know and I will probably haul my computer into the library to get them.  From what I can see they just make the game easier with unique items or add quests and stuff.  Are they really that important?
You don't really need any of them. But they're nice. There's one that gives you Shale, a party member who hasn't died in the 10+ hours I've run with him. The other one gets you a container, the only one in the game you can put stuff in. If you've got pack rat tendencies the game can be a headache without it.
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Caleb

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #117 on: 10 Nov 2009, 12:11 »

What's the container called?  Lemme see if I can get it for frees with a physical copy somewhere.

I am also playing the flash game thing to get some free downloads.  But they appear to completely suck?

Resistance to elemental stuff?  Is that important in this game?  Better to do the character creation thing and get a ring I guess.
« Last Edit: 10 Nov 2009, 12:23 by Caleb »
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Alex C

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #118 on: 10 Nov 2009, 12:51 »

They kind of suck, yeah, but at the very least you can sell them for some early coin if you prefer the other items you find.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #119 on: 10 Nov 2009, 13:29 »

All right then.  I just have to find a physical copy on sale somewhere, install it and bring it in to get all the downloads I can get for free.

And I have GOT to stop reading this thread for fear of spoilers.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #120 on: 10 Nov 2009, 15:05 »

At least with the 360 version, you get Shale for free provided you buy a new copy. Provided the PC users don't get screwed that way, you should only be missing out on the Warden's Keep DLC by buying the Collector's Edition instead of the Digital Deluxe version. Plus, then you get your cloth map.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #121 on: 11 Nov 2009, 03:14 »

Just checking in to say that my rogue is turning out waaaaaay better than I had dared hope he would. My old mage could team up with Morrigan to apply quick bursts of lethal damage and thus cherry pick or at least crowd control the must-die-now targets quite easily, but I honestly don't miss that capability very much thanks to the fact that my rogue takes enemies from full to dead extremely fast and doesn't really need much stamina to do it either. He spits out backstabs at a freakishly high rate once you factor in dual wielding and Momentum.
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Alex C

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #122 on: 11 Nov 2009, 09:48 »

It's pretty easy to spread a rogue too thin, yeah. Like I said, my own rogue is a death machine, but frankly, I'm more than a little surprised by just how much building one expressly for combat and picking out a few key talents ASAP really impacts their early performance; the first ogre battle was much, much easier for me this time around simply because my rogue chewed through the first half of its health bar like a buzzsaw. Leliana and Zevran by contrast felt a bit too much like salvage jobs for my tastes when I tried them on my mage.


As far as Morrigan is concerned, I also would have preferred that she was merely apathetic or unimpressed with your efforts to help people out rather than actively annoyed, which seems kind of petty. Although I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised about that considering how much she enjoys needling people at times. Still, I like the character and some of her tiny moments of self-awareness about the persona she presents hit me as unexpectedly funny, like when she scolds the War Dog for being manipulative.
« Last Edit: 11 Nov 2009, 10:06 by Alex C »
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #123 on: 11 Nov 2009, 14:39 »

I just started playing it.

Here are my annoyances so far:

No rest system!
Only 3 classes and 3 races?
I can't find a setting to make it pause auotomatically every time I enter combat (I'll have to check again)
I can't queue actions/spells (I'm playing a mage)
All of the spells are combat oriented! I was hoping for something along the lines of Icewind Dale where you could teleport yourself short distances and do divination spells.
I hate mana, I prefer the D&D system, but I guess I can let this slide.
It isn't Baldur's Gate II
It isn't Planescape: Torment
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #124 on: 11 Nov 2009, 14:54 »

you'd be amazed at the number of ways you can build those 3 classes, especially when you start counting specializations.
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Alex C

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #125 on: 11 Nov 2009, 15:04 »


All of the spells are combat oriented! I was hoping for something along the lines of Icewind Dale where you could teleport yourself short distances and do divination spells.

I like how you say this despite the fact that unpatched Icewind Dale had so few divination spells that you could take Divination as your opposed school with virtually no consequences. You know, because the only spell worth having was Identify.


Also, if by D&D you mean the Vancian system, I'll still never understand how anyone could really be in favor of that system. Oh, sure, you felt clever when you knew what worked and what didn't, but in practice this meant that half your portfolio was a sick joke and completing games was as much about guessing what you were going to stumble across next as much as it was about how you applied the spells once battle was joined.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #126 on: 11 Nov 2009, 15:14 »

There are two good divination spells, actually - identify, and true sight. BG2 is a bitch without it.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #127 on: 11 Nov 2009, 15:24 »

Agreed, but if I remember correctly True Sight wasn't even in the first Icewind Dale, and at any rate Clerics could also cast it in Baldur's Gate.  In the first Icewind Dale having access to Divination meant you saved a few coin here and there and maybe got a few experience points in a specific quest or two. There was some neat flavor here and there, but for all practical purposes entire schools were virtually without merit.
« Last Edit: 11 Nov 2009, 15:32 by Alex C »
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Be My Head

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #128 on: 11 Nov 2009, 19:37 »

Yeah, but if some enterprising video game company took a bunch of divination spells straight out of the D&D manuals, they could really add a lot of flavour to the game. Possibly making it change the outcome of the game, so there would be a way other than dialogue trees to take a different route through a game.

Also, I found another annoyance in Dragon Age. For some reason I can't select a single person out of my party and have ONLY that person move around. One of my favourite plays is to send a lone party member into an ambush or enemy filled area and then have them lure the enemies into a bottleneck; possibly with some traps and glyphs designed to hurt them on their way. Seems I can only do this with lots of trouble in Dragon Age.

Also, on the vancian system of spells: I guess I always thought of it as proper preparation prevents piss poor performance kind of thing. In some of the D&D based novels, like Forgotten Realms, wizards are always described as being vulnerable if they haven't properly prepared before a fight, so one of the mechanics of that class is to make sure you have the right spells memorized. That's why the Sorceror class exists, so the people who just want to pick any of their spells and have a set amount they can use, or mana, can do that.
« Last Edit: 11 Nov 2009, 19:40 by Be My Head »
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Ozymandias

Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #129 on: 11 Nov 2009, 19:40 »

Switch to party member.
Command wheel->advanced->hold position.
Proceed.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #130 on: 11 Nov 2009, 19:42 »

Awesome, thank god I can do that, or else I'd be horribly crippled.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #131 on: 12 Nov 2009, 01:53 »

Switch to party member.
Command wheel->advanced->hold position.
Proceed.

...I've finished the game and I never noticed that.

Fuck.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #132 on: 12 Nov 2009, 04:13 »

I love this game. Started last night around nine. Blinked and it was three in the morning.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #133 on: 12 Nov 2009, 08:31 »

This game is awesome but I am dying a whole bunch more than I feel like I should be, and Injury kits are getting expensive. I dunno if I'm just doing the wrong quests or what, but in my party of me(duelist rogue) Alistair, Morrigan, and Dog, the rogue and warrior die on like, every 5th encounter, and boss fights usually wipe me 2 or 3 times before I manage to take them down. I dunno if I'm just not playing the game well in terms of tactics and things, or if I've made a mistake and not put enough points into constitution or what, but this is silly. Anyone else having this problem, or do I just suck at video games.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #134 on: 12 Nov 2009, 09:23 »

That's normal. Melee combatants with low con die consistently, as you're basically supposed to play this game like an MMO - you have a tank who uses the "taunt" and "threaten" abilities to draw enemy focus away from spellcasters, who are the real heavy hitters, and soak up damage. Most people who take on Sten thinking he'd be a perfect tank with his size found out that he's often the fighter to crumble. Which is why Shale is such a powerful character - his con starts in the 30s and his strength is in the 20s. He's not a complete tank but when he's trading blows he lasts longer than anybody else.

It might also be because you're playing as a rogue. There have been a lot of complaints about how useless most rogues are, with or without the dex-modifier hotfix. They're generally pretty fragile and even as archers they pale compared to fighters. I've found that the only way to keep Leilana from dying constantly is to set the difficulty to easy. Bioware is apparently working on this. The best way to play a rogue is as a backstabber, preferably coupled with disabling spells from another party member. Otherwise you've got a tough road to hoe.
« Last Edit: 12 Nov 2009, 09:26 by KvP »
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #135 on: 12 Nov 2009, 09:41 »

Yeah, Sten is pretty much useless. Too bad, as I was looking for a good evil character to take on.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #136 on: 12 Nov 2009, 11:11 »

You guys are doing it wrong and Sten is a good character due to his damage potential and innate durability as a warrior. I'm going to be blunt: the MMO conceit is a crock and leads only to failure in my Dragon Age experience. I know this in part because I play tons of MMOs and this game, if anything, plays out like an untankable encounter in which everyone is responsible for their own health, not a tank and spank. Just bear with me for a moment and I'll explain my admittedly unorthodox viewpoint.

MMOs work the way they do because of a few unique design decisions that simply don't apply to Dragon Age. MMOs emphasize the Tank and Spank because you're typically worried about one overwhelming foe per tank, each of whom will cheerfully annihilate anyone but a tank within the space of a few swings. The gap between the tank and everyone else in the survivability sweepstakes goes beyond profound, but even he takes immense damage and requires a full time healer to survive. To counter this, healers in MMOs are supercharged health throughput machines that can take a tank from low to full in the span of a few seconds, and can massively overheal anyone else. This means that using heals on anyone but a tank is "wasteful," since healers are restrained by mana costs, not cooldowns. It's a black and white world: healers heal the tank, tank takes the damage; any variation and you start losing people.

Dragon Age isn't like that; hell, strategy wise it's almost like a party based Diablo you can pause. Enemies attack in number and when you die it's usually because your dumb ass was surrounded again. No class can chain cast super powered heals, yet the few healing spells available are remarkably inexpensive, so you're fighting to keep people alive until Heal is available again rather than worrying about your mana pool. Armor is helpful, but not as helpful as hitpoints. And most important of all: All the classes are hybrids and all of them can have decent but not overwhelming survivability. The key to not letting characters with low con die is to boost their con.

A character like Alistair can take more damage and handle flanking enemies better than the other characters. That doesn't make it a good idea to let 4 enemies pound on him at once. Keep it to two or three enemies attacking any one character whenever possible. If it gets to be more than that you need to shift priorities to taking one of the bullies out of the fight ASAP before someone gets cut to ribbons. And don't be afraid to let your mages take a few hits. Trust me, they can take it if you build them right; Morrigan has enough baseline strength to wear decent tier leathers if you're paranoid, and even without them she can often take care of herself by using Vulnerability Hex+Drain life combos. Letting the damage get spread around won't kill you; in fact, it just makes it more manageable. Ending the battle with everyone at half health is better than ending a battle with an injured Alistair and everyone else untouched. If you must use abilities like Threaten, make sure you have at least two warriors using Threaten together so the incoming damage is split into manageable chunks.
« Last Edit: 12 Nov 2009, 12:16 by Alex C »
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #137 on: 12 Nov 2009, 13:49 »

I usually just use warrior based characters as fodder in these games while I hang back and blast them with fireballs. Works out because they just come back to life and get healed.

Yes, I know that's a stupid strategy, but when it works it works, and mages are pretty powerful in DA.

With the drain health or whatever it is (the one that lets my mage absorb dead enemies for health) it's making me move my mage in for close combat more.
« Last Edit: 12 Nov 2009, 13:51 by Be My Head »
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #138 on: 12 Nov 2009, 14:20 »

I just find it funny that people basically coddle their mages and then scold the warriors for dying. I'm fine with exposing my mages to a little risk; often times it helps them do their job better. Hell, my Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage is the first guy to go in.


Oh, and if you must use your guys as sacrificial lambs, at least do them the courtesy of hitting them with a Stasis before setting everything on fire.
« Last Edit: 12 Nov 2009, 14:24 by Alex C »
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #139 on: 12 Nov 2009, 15:47 »

Word around the way is that 3 mage 1 tank (preferably Shale, who seems immune to some spell effects) is the most powerful party combo. Sword and board being the best tank configuration (hence Alistair's durability)
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #140 on: 12 Nov 2009, 15:57 »

Yeah, 3 mages would be ridiculous, and I think 4 would work even better were it possible. Honestly, I'm really certain I could solo the game as a mage, but frankly, that's nothing new to bioware games. I just don't think warriors and rogues are as crappy as people make them out to be. Generally speaking, the character you micromanage the most will be the most effective. Most people rarely bother doing this with warriors. I can understand that, to an extent, since mages do in fact have the most options and thus tend to give you good bang for your buck, but that's not really any reason to underrate the tools that warriors and rogues have. They have the tools there to be successful and to get through fights without dying. It's demonstrable. Rogues in particular get a bad rap because people can't seem to wrap their minds around the idea that Dex isn't a true DPS stat and that Strength and Constitution aren't optional. If any rogue stat is optional, it's Cunning or Willpower.

As far as the one tank idea goes, I think the key to that isn't really the tank you choose, it's the mages. All the enemies focusing on one target makes a lot more sense when you have 3 other characters that can stagger heals to keep him standing even if everyone dogpiles on him. In a more typical 1 or 2 mage group, it's better to spread the pain around a bit so nobody gets too low before Heal is available again.
« Last Edit: 12 Nov 2009, 16:20 by Alex C »
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Caleb

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #141 on: 12 Nov 2009, 16:24 »

I broke my promise and read this thread again.

What can I do to make sure my Rogue/Assassin isn't going to suck?  I mean what are some HUGE mistakes that I shouldn't make?

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Alex C

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #142 on: 12 Nov 2009, 17:53 »

Depends if you want your rogue to be a good melee fighter or if you can live with having him be a bit subpar in battle but able to open every lock you see. Unfortunately, many chests require more Cunning than just the points needed for reaching the final level of the lock picking tree, so having real stealth/lockpicking skills does require sacrifice. If you just want him to be able to put up a fight, than you'll want to basically build him like a warrior. Enough dexterity for the talents you want, enough con to survive, and strength for damage/armor. I eventually considered strength to be my rogue's primary stat, same as any warrior.

As for talents, that depends in part on how far you are and what your other characters do. Personally, Momentum is my favorite skill in the dual wield tree and I'm glad I beelined to it, but if you prefer having a mage who can cast Haste I wouldn't blame you for going after another talent first since Haste and Momentum don't appear to stack. That said, Haste is at the tail end of a pretty vanilla tree, so I don't really regret having skipped it until late game.
« Last Edit: 12 Nov 2009, 17:59 by Alex C »
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Alex C

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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #143 on: 12 Nov 2009, 19:43 »

I hate to gripe, since I rather do like this game, but why the heck is Combat Tactics a skill?! Limited as it may be, I've grown to love the ability to set up a few simple event triggers on my party members. For example, I like to set it so that Alistair saves and automatically uses his Overpower ability on targets that have been frozen solid; the last hit is an automatic critical if it connects, so the combo deals good damage at worst and results in an auto kill at best; very slick. Sadly, I often go without it, instead using tactic slots to handle more mundane tasks. So really, my complaint is that the the scripting system is ultimately here to improve your quality of life as a gamer; it's merely a tool for combating Dumb Party Member Syndrome during the mop up phase of a battle rather than something that really overhauls your group's capabilities. So why give it an arbitrary limit that's tied to skill points of all things? Options like this should be shouted about from the rooftops, not hobbled until you hit level 12 and can afford rank 4.
« Last Edit: 12 Nov 2009, 19:52 by Alex C »
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Ozymandias

Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #144 on: 12 Nov 2009, 20:06 »

^ This is completely a complaint I have.

The ability to control your AI better should not be a thing you have to sacrifice actual skills for.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #145 on: 12 Nov 2009, 20:18 »

I'll toss my hat in on that complaint.

I definitely don't understand the complaints about warriors. I've had a blast with my 2 Hander warrior thus far and outside of one or two fights, the only ones I've gotten my ass beat in have been ones where I didn't' think things through beforehand.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #146 on: 13 Nov 2009, 01:49 »

I've started (another) playthrough - I seem to get the urge to start a new character right after Redcliffe - and am min-maxing a bit more than I was previously, setting characters their individual targets and stuff, and damn is it making things so much easier.

I haven't played around with the combat tactics that much, but then I am only playing on Normal. I only really think about it when during a combat situation I think "It would have really helped if X had done Y at that point." so I go in and set a tactic for it.

So far my only real issues are, as above, the tactics slots being so limited, and an annoying habit for my ranged characters to forget to switch back to ranged weapons if they get dragged into melee combat. Also a minor gripe is that the Dwarven origin stories seem to be way, way more detailed and interesting than the other races, but that's seriously not like, a legitimate complaint I'm throwing in at this point.

Out of interest, does anybody know if the romances actually have a gender attached? I assumed - as is the way with most RPGs - that same-sex pairings would be limited to certain characters if represented at all, but after experimenting a bit with the Human Noble origin story, I'm not so sure. Of course, it could well be that the options within that section aren't gender specific and everything else is.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #147 on: 13 Nov 2009, 01:55 »

There are three romance options for either gender. There are two bisexual characters (they announce themselves as such fairly early on - it's in Zevran's first conversation) and one straight character for each gender. I don't know if dwarves have a romance option.
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #148 on: 13 Nov 2009, 06:23 »

I eventually considered strength to be my rogue's primary stat, same as any warrior.

So wait doesn't this game use Dex for daggers and stuff?  There is no "Finesse" skill you can get to make all your damage throws go to Dex?
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Re: Dragon Age
« Reply #149 on: 13 Nov 2009, 06:33 »

There's a skill for rogues that makes cunning the primary skill for damage instead of strength. I just got it an I'm pretty stoked!
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