Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[fatty]

I know a large number of people here are in the late-teen/early 20s period of their life. This is something that is relevant to this period because it's when most of us get out of school, into university/college, start working full or part time, and earning money and stuff.

This was discussed briefly in previous threads such as the college one, but in a narrow way, I didn't feel there was enough complete debate of the topic. I'll set up a few points/parameters, but please let this not be a 'list thread' or 'everyone tell your story but don't comment on anything else' kind of thing. Also, lets avoid debates about semantics, I hope I'm not asking too much?

What is your financial position?
- If you're in school, are you earning enough to support yourself, or will you be in the future?
- If you're in college/university, are you paying for everything yourself, are you living at home/by yourself, do you pay your parents board?
- If you're past this period and are out of school or financially independent, was there a transition and what was it like?

What is your opinion on financial independence?
- Do you think it's okay to be supported by your parents while you study?
- Do you look down on people who 'leech' off their parents?
- Do you have little to no choice with financial situation, and are struggling to stay in school?
- Does financial burden mean you can't study, or restrict your chances of work?

These are just starters, please add your thoughts.

I'm basically living off my parents right now. I'm studying full time and I work a little bit, but not enough to cover my expenses. I'm living at home, what I earn would barely cover my weekly meals, let alone rent. I'm pretty committed to school, so it remains my priorities and my parents are happy to support me. Also, I'm looking for internship/work experience which pays shit and I know I won't be financially independent for a while. I have money saved up, but I'm not spending it or saving up for moving out, just yet. I'm investing my money in shares though, and future investments.

I don't see myself as leeching off my parents. Okay, so they're not struggling and they don't see supporting me as a burden or anything. My mum recently told me that she knows that when I start to earn enough to support myself I will stop depending on her. To be honest, I don't want to be living hand to mouth while I'm studying. My parents appreciate me being at home and I contribute to the family by living there. I know I'm lucky that I can do that, but I refuse to be considered as lazy because I don't want to move out till I can afford it and still ace university.

[Liz]

I'm going to be starting my third year of college in about a month or so, and I am paying for it myself. My parents aren't very well off, so they can't afford to help me with college. I've already taken out a bunch of loans and I know I will be taking out plenty more before I graduate.

If my parents lived in Fargo, where I go to college, I would probably still be living at home for the free rent and food, but this is not the case. Home is a couple hours away, so I live in a pretty small two bedroom apartment with my friend Neil. We split the rent and utilities and buy our own food, all of which I pay for out of my paychecks. This does not leave much extra money, as I work in retail more or less make enough to stay even. My bank account has been at the same level for quite a while, and I don't imagine I will be making enough that I can actually start saving money.

As for help from my parents, the big thing they do is pay for my insurance. Health insurance for me, and auto insurance for my car. All my friends seem to think this is ridiculous, as the all pay their own insurance, but their parents send them money all the time and pay for their college, so I think their arguments are a little silly. Other than insurance they'll take me out to eat when they come visit or give me $20 for gas if I drive home to see them, but that is basically it.

I wish I could be living at home still, so I could actually save the money I make from working to put towards college and have to take out fewer loans, but that option is not there. But I guess I am doing alright, and as I have seen with both of my siblings, if I really get into trouble my parents can probably swing me a couple hundred bucks to get me out of a tight spot. I just really hope it doesn't come to that.

And Tommy, my roommate is financially solvent, mostly tidy, sociable, and pretty studious. I think I did well.

[McTaggart]

This has become an important thing to think about in my life recently as it looks like moving out is going to be the simplest option for me as far as getting into a position where I can actually do well at uni. This means that I need to completely change my financial situation. As it stands now I'm unemployed, living with my parents and not really in a mental state that will help me get a job or get anywhere at all. A major part of the mental state thing is due to living with my parents, just in case my logic seems completely stupid. I've taken the rest of the year off to try to get into a better situation for me. I know it sounds like a massive change to do over a short amount of time but it's something that I need to do and will really help me.

In my group of friends I have people from all kinds of dependence. I see no issues with any of them. If people's parents can manage it and are willing to support them through higher education then that is fine. If people are paying their parents board then that seems slightly odd to me in some cases but I get the reasoning have no issue. People can be 35 and living with their parents and I have no idea how people could do that but if it works it works and if all parties are happy with it then that's fine by me. I think the only issue is where a person's financial situation prevents them from getting higher education. I really am glad for all the commonwealth supported places at universities here in Australia and for welfare systems that are in place for people going through the transition between dependence and independence.

I'm not happy with where I am right now and I'm working toward changing it. I suppose my parents can afford to support me, but I need to get out.

[johnny5]

so you are a full time student that basically works just a bit for some extra money? that sounds reasonable to me, especially if your parents encourage it. i am living with my parents also, but i am taking out student loans to pay for school and working full time also. however, because i live at home i don't have an rent or rooming fees to worry about, which frees up my money, even though i could afford it. having to worry about rent and where you are going to live while you are in school is probably the most stressful thing ever. i tried it for a semester and it totally sucked. it's probably the most ideal situation, outside from the occasional times when you bring someone home. so i'm living with them, but not really off them - i'm probably just as much of a financial strain on them as when i was in grade school. i think they like the situation also, i'm just awesome like that. so when i graduate, i'll move out and just pay off the loans myself.

so in closing, if you're working towards finishing school, staying with your parents is fine, in my opinion. if you're not working towards anything, staying at home and not earning enough to support yourself if you had moved out, then that sucks for you and the 'rents. my friend is like this, he's 27, never got pass high school but recently had to move back in with the rents because he couldn't find a apartment-mate to move in with. he's been trying to pressure me, but i honestly cannot see any upside in having 700-800 dollars less money each month and relocating further away from my school.

[Jimmy the Squid]

I spent the first year and half of my BA living with my parents. After my brother's rental place got sold out from under him my dad bought an apartment in a fashionable part of the city and the following conversation went like this:

Dad: Hey son, why don't you move into this apartment I just bought. I'll give you really cheap rent and in return I'll have tennents who won't shit up the place!

Brother: But Dad, it's a two bedroom place and I don't know anyone who wants to move out.

Dad: Hey, Jimmy the Squid, you said you're thinking of moving out right?

Me: Uh, yeah. Eventually. I mean, I probably can't affor...

Dad: That settles it! You and your brother can live in the flat and get out of my house.

Me: But I...

Dad: You and your brother can live in the flat.

So now I've been living here for the last two years, essentially not living off my parents except for the subsidised rent (heavily subsidised) and for the most part it's been pretty easy but there have been times when it has been a little tough (a lot of weeks eating nothing but rice, eggs and ramen) but I'm generally too proud to ask my folks for money as they kind of instilled in me a desire to be self-sufficient. But anyway, most weeks I make enough to cover my rent and bills and uni fees and still have the money and time to have a social life (kind of) and I do well at uni still.

I think it's ok to live with your folks while studying. I think countries like the UK and USA have a culture of kids moving out when they start university but it's not quite the same in Australia as our unis are generally not equipped with a lot of space for student housing and most people go to unis that are more or less in the same cities that they live in. Living with the parentals is probably just the sensible thing for most people to do. I certainly don't look down on people who live with their folks while studying, I think that eventually you need to stand on your own two feet and provide for yourself so I look down on people who are past the age of 25 and don't know how to work a washing machine but I usually think that if you can afford to do it and still maintain your grades/quality of life, there is usually no excuse for sponging off your folks.

[Oli]

This question is a bit odd for me because of the way the scottish educational system works. Basically I have to point out straight away that my university fees are all paid for by the government through the Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS). More or less they pay the fees for any student doing their first degree at a scottish university that is from most EU countries (england don't count, potentially some others). In addition to this they also give out student loans and grants for living costs based on family income as well as some other factors. I only get a loan - I'm not going to say how much. Loans are repayed through a tax once your degree is finished and your income is at least £15,000 a year. Bear that in mind when I say my parents pay for most of my expenses while I'm studying.

My parents pay for my rent, give me a small amount of money to go towards bills and have also paid for my course books. This means that I'm never in a bad way finacially during term time as my student loan is sufficient enough to cover food costs and various other things. I also had a whack of money saved up when I started uni as well as some I recieved as inheritence from my gran.

I really don't have a problem with living off my parents while I'm at uni. I'm entirely grateful and I wouldn't hold it against them if they stopped being quite as generous. I'm entirely aware that I'm very lucky to have them help me out and while I respect people who are finacially independent I don't see getting finacial help as something which should be looked down on. Actually I resent pretty heavily people who do look down on it for a number of reasons.

My parents have worked incredibly hard for as long as I can remember - my mother is a nurse and works in 2 seperate medical centres, as well as doing a lot of marie curie work. If my parents want to use money they've earned to help support me and my brothers while we are studying then I think it is pretty ridiculous to consider me taking money they are offering as "leeching" off them. It's not like me or my brothers ever ask them to give us money while we study.

My parents are both pretty excellent people and while I don't agree with them on a huge number of things and our interests are incredibly different we do get along well. I like to think that they are not giving me money because they see it as their duty as a parent but because they've tried to raise me and my brothers not to be complete knobs and they've succeded, although to what degree isn't really for me to say. I'm pretty sure my parents are happier because me and my brothers are having the times of our lives thanks to them.

It's not like me and my brothers are having all the fun either. As I'm writing this my mother is exploring in India and helping empower women and street children as part of a Girl Guiding initiative (I'm actually not entirely sure of all the details here because she left while I was on a holiday of my own). In the past 3 years my father's been to Africa 3 times (twice on his own with a charity called computers for africa, once as part of a family holiday to Egypt).

Besides; it's not like I'm going to be relying on my parents forever. Once I'm finished uni I will not be getting any more support from them. Until then I'm busy working hard at university.

Oh also please don't get the impression that my parents are rich. My family is very much middle class. There's nothing wrong with having rich parents or anything, but I really don't want to give a false impression.

TL;DR: My parents support me while I study, but won't once I'm finished. I'm okay with it. My parents are awesome.

[Lunchbox]

It's really interesting to find out the way you guys live.

When I was doing my trade courses at TAFE after I finished my HSC I lived with my parents, drove a car my parents bought for me, had a credit card to pay for fuel only, and no income.
I'm 23 now and when I was 19 my parents went through a messy divorce, selling the family home. I was working part time and slacking off most time, and didn't pay them anything re board. I chose to move in with my Dad, who rented a little house in the middle of nowhere. He paid for my car and insurance and all the important things, but left my fuel and personal costs to me. He is a shift worker and thus he's never home, so we established a rule that we could each buy whatever food we wanted but if it was in the house without a label, it was fair game. After a little while my boyfriend moved in with us and after another little while my younger brother (who was failing his HSC for the second time) moved in as well. We moved to a larger house and things stayed that way for a while until last year when my brother got a girlfriend and she moved in with us too. In that time I'd become too old to stay on my parents' health insurance, so I got my own. Uh. Where was I?
Okay right. After playing Full House for a bit, I decided to move out by myself. I found myself a little flat in the fancy part of town, a good forty minute drive from the rest of the family, but close to work. The day I accepted the lease for the flat I lost my job, but luckily I got another the next day so everything worked out nicely. Dad and I signed the lease together (as the estate agents demanded it) but I paid for my own bond and fees and stole furniture from everyone I knew.
Currently I am working full-time-ish and in charge of my own rent and car insurance and registration and bills, and my Dad takes care of car payments and my mobile phone. My boyfriend lives with me but he's studying full-time and works one morning a week stacking shelves, so he just helps as much as he can with groceries and gets a weekly hand-out from his mum to pay for his fuel and to help him save to pay his own car insurance and rego.
When I was preparing to go to Canada I called Dad up to ask if I could borrow $500 from him to help pay for my ticket, and he, strangely enough, was really touched and told me he was glad that I was not afraid to ask him for help, and that he would always be happy to help me out.
Basically the moral of the story here is my Dad is great.

[jhocking]

What is your opinion on financial independence?
- Do you think it's okay to be supported by your parents while you study?
- Do you look down on people who 'leech' off their parents?

I certainly think it's okay to be financially supported by your parents while you study.  In my own case, my dad paid for my undergraduate tuition completely. I never saw myself as leeching off my dad. Indeed, that term "leeching" connotes certain wasteful behavior and implies a value judgement. It would be leeching to constantly waste their money partying, but it's not leeching to spend their money on tuition so that you can concentrate your time on studying.

In grad school I paid for everything myself; I didn't ask my parents for money to pay tuition, or pay rent, or anything. Even then though it's not like I'd look down on classmates who were getting money from their parents. Well maybe the one guy who constantly slacked off and was routinely purchasing high-end audio equipment (when a grad student describes himself as "a stereo equipment enthusiast," something is wrong,) but again there's a big distinction between getting help from your parents while you work to launch the rest of your life and just generally mooching off them.

That all said, I am a bit concerned about my sister's dependence on my parents. I mean, she's in medical school and paying for the vast majority of it through loans, but she is attached to the point of it causing problems to the small amount my parents are kicking in to help her with daily expenses.  Ultimately it has little to do with the money; the money is a concrete representation of a more emotional dependence. Which of course is where much of the stigma around depending on your parents for support comes from. It's not so much a stigma about needing money as it is a stigma about being emotionally stunted (the perception of that anyway.)


So I guess that's my overall feeling on this issue: it's fine to be financially dependent on your parents while in school, but be cautious of this financial dependence being a proxy for emotional dependence*.



*Incidentally, by "emotional dependence" I don't simply mean turning to your parents for advice when something big happens in your life. That's normal, and that's what families are for. I mean more like you have trouble functioning on a routine basis without your parents taking care of you.

[IronOxide]

So, next year, I am going to be moving out to college for my first year, and my financial system is maybe going to be a little crazy. This is actually the first year that any of my siblings are having their college covered with any definite (like court ordered definite) reliability. This will come out to be somewhere around half of my tuition/housing/food/etc. with the rest to be done in loans (a large portion of which are provided at a modest rate by government). This is much less than my siblings are paying, as I am the only one going to a state school instead of a private institution (that generally cost at the very least double what I am paying)

I have no resentment or problem with people and their parents covering any amount of money, unless the parents are covering an unreasonably small amount compared to what they can afford. I know a girl going to Yale, whose parents can afford it, yet I do not believe they are providing any help in that endeavor. Maybe I'm selfish, but I think parents should generally do what they can (taking care not to land themselves in the poor house, of course).

I think people who do not have to cover anything will have some issues going into the later life, but quite frankly, a checkbook is not a very hard thing to manage.

I am living on campus, and I think I would have done that even if I weren't two hours away from home (I know it's not far, but still too far to be a commuter). I actually disagree with Tommy on the matter of living on campus. While it may make financial sense to live at home, I think that living on campus provides an experience that makes university more socially possible and enjoyable. I do not know if I am going to be doing work study or what to make some spending cash on campus (I have a pretty demanding major, if I am to believe what I have been told), but even if I don't, I know I will be okay with food and stuff on campus, which I don't know about at home.

[Oli]

Arguably parental contribution towards living costs could help to lower emotional dependence on parents. I mean if you're living on your own you'd hopefully be learning things like how to wash your clothes and how to cook a decent meal even if you're only able to live on your own because of handouts. Being finacially independent isn't entirely the same as being independent after all.

[jhocking]

Good point, and that's why I said to be cautious, not that one kind of dependence always implies the other. Basically, the considerations you describe are all part of my point about the distinction between actually deserving the money from your parents and simply being a leech.

Learning to cook your own meals and do your own laundry while living in an apartment paid for by your parents? Not a leech.

Partying every night and never going to classes while living in an apartment paid for by your parents? Leech.

[Bowers]

I'll be taking the leap to university and financial independence as of September and at the moment I'm shitting enough bricks to actually build myself a house to live in for the duration of my 3 year course.

The plan was for this summer was to, after I'd finished all my exams, get a couple of jobs and save up in preparation for my first year of uni. As it turns out things haven't gone exactly to plan. I have been unable to find any job in my local area due to a certain amount of laziness on my part and bad luck, it's not that I haven't tried to find a job, I really have, the fact is though that there just aren't enough jobs in my local area to go around and those employers that are looking to hire people are looking to hire people in late August/September (when I leave to go to uni) or for people with experience (of which I have very little of).

It's come to the point where September isn't really that far away and if I tell a potential employer that I leave for uni in September they will simply not hire me, there's not really any point. So at the moment I don't even have enough to support my summer social life never mind start a new life in a new city where I am financially on my own. This will also have a knock on affect for when I get to uni as when I try to apply for a job in the local city there will be 1,000 other students to choose from to employ with far more work experience than me.

There is some relief in the fat that I am getting a loan from the government to cover my tuition and accommodation fees which I will start paying off when I am earning 15,000 a year. I am also getting a £600 non-repayable loan from the government due to the state of my parents income, but to be honest I can see myself pissing this all away in the first month.

I guess it comes down to the fact that I am going to have to rely on my parents a fair bit, although I would like to be as independent as possible for as long as possible, it'll be a great experience for me.

I do not feel any resentment for those students who are going into higher education with the help of their parents. One of my friends (who is a bit of a mummy's boy) is very...well off lets say, was given £1,000 for his 18th birthday, has worked all summer at his Dad's office doing a 9 till 5 shift filing papers and has made over £3,000 from this and is also getting another £1,000 from his chosen university if he gets straight A's (which he will), and good for him.

I cannot wait to go to uni, I just hope I will have a little money in my pocket to help me get started and the support that I am inevitably going to need in the long run.

[Thlayli]

I've been unemployed since I got my Bachelor's in Business a year and a half ago. For the last year or so, I've been getting passed up for jobs in favor of people who never even bothered to go to college, because having a degree means they'd have to pay me a slightly higher salary. I have some savings left from various jobs I worked while in school, but am now having to sell my car for less than a tenth of its actual value because I can't afford to keep fixing the brakes. Since I don't have a paycheck to qualify for an apt lease, I'm crashing with my parents, in an area with little to no public transportation, no sidewalks, and the closest business of any sort is at least four to five miles on foot.

I'd be a huge advocate of financial independence for those lucky enough to have that as an option.

[supersheep]

I am really looking forward to financial independence, to be perfectly honest. My folks have been good enough to cover most of my living expenses during college - rent and foodstuffs - supplemented by my earnings throughout the year, and they will next year too, when I will be finished my degree. I've only been financially independent this summer and last, which was nice, and as soon as I'm finished in college I want to go back to that. I'm really grateful to my folks for what they've given me, as it'd be impossible to work and study and go to class and get the result I want/need to. Nonetheless, with my sister going to college next year and the fact that I'm currently leaning towards, there is no way I will let them pay for my postgrad studies. For one, it'd mean that I might never actually go out into the real world. Plus, working for a year or two would mean that I could afford some nice things, live in a nicer house, and generally be able to do some things I never could if my parents were paying for stuff.
Having my parents pay for everything makes me feel weird. I like not having to work, of course, but then again, there is an obligation to live up to their expectations and act in accordance with their wishes. Not that I mind that much, but I'd rather not have that feeling hanging over me. Plus, I look at some of my friends who are paying for everything themselves and feel a little ashamed at how lazy I am, especially my mate who dropped out for a year but is now living away from home, owns a car, is assistant manager or similar in a restaurant, and is coming back to study in October. On the other hand, another friend is getting his rent paid for him during the summer, despite the fact that it is nearly what I get for rent and living expenses every month, so I guess I am not too bad.

[NarwhalSunshine]

My dad wants to pay for my college since his parents wouldn't pay for his so he had to quit and I only make minimum wage.

[est]

I lived at home, not working at all until second year of uni.  At that point I got a job on campus helping out at the computer labs and then later did some workshops (like tutoring, but not).  It felt like a natural progression!  Then I got a Helpdesk job for some reason during one semester where I only had 2 subjects to do so I had some spare time on my hands.  I progressed into a "real" job, took a study leave, then came back and finished the course.  (I think that's how it happened, something like that).

That said, I turned out remarkably sheltered.  My partner at the time was encouraged to work from an early age.  She helped out her parent's business from Primary school age, then later in High school she got a local retail job that she kept right through her uni course until she could get a better-paying,  course-related job at a nursing home.  She was and still is one of the most practical, well-grounded people I know.  It might just be a co-incidence, but I always wonder if I would have turned out differently if I had started work earlier.

I still don't think there is anything at all wrong with staying at home until you are done with your studies and/or are financially able to move out.  In my mind the only way you would be classed as "leeching" off your parents is if you were living at home and slacking off with no intention of ever changing the situation.  In your case it is more that your parents are trying to help you lay a solid foundation for your future.  There is nothing wrong with wanting your kids to have a good life, and there's nothing wrong with accepting their help if they are offering it.

[Eris]

My mother is paying my board to live in my little room here (I'm living on campus as I'm 6 hours away from home), my car insurance, and I am still on their health insurance. I am rather grateful for all this, but she is a school teacher and interest rates keep making her increase loan repayments, so while she is not on the poverty line, she doesn't have a huge amount of spare income after paying her own bills. I pay for my petrol, mobile phone, and food, which was basically the case when I was living at home. She didn't charge me rent because she knew I was saving up to live, but if I was staying there I would be paying at least something once I had a secure job. The fact that I have already asked her for money makes me even less willing to ask for more, even though she has said not to leave it until I am on rice, eggs and ramen before asking for help, because I, like Jimmy, want to be self-sufficient. If I had gotten off my arse and found a job more quickly then I probably wouldn't be in this situation now, where I am getting nervy about spending things.

Living here has shown me some different financial situations in place. Mostly people have some sort of government assistance helping them with rent payments or soforth, which seems to generally be spent on alcohol and maybe food, but basically everyone in my block of 6 people have also got jobs. I think I'm the only one who doesn't get Youth Allowance or have some sort of scholarship money, but everyone seems to be as reluctant to ask for help from their parents as I am,  so there is that feeling that you're 'leeching' off your parents when you should be able to support yourself once you get to a certain point.

I have had that mentality for awhile now, going through high school and hating having to ask my parents for money felt like I was a lazy person who couldn't be bothered getting a job. My brother doesn't seem to have that problem. He still lives at home (just finished his honours), always 'forgets' to pay rent, runs out of money and borrows some for petrol, and buys things he doesn't need when he probably can't afford it. He already owes $1500 (probably more now) from borrowed money/late rent, as well as $20 000 for a tuba mum has finally paid off, and it's gotten to the point where she is taking the majority of his money when he gets paid so that he doesn't blow it on rubbish instead of paying her. I think he is leeching of Mum, and so does she, but if you bring up any of that he gets so indignant about his situation. Mum will have to make it more expensive to live at home than somewhere else for him to move out, because he has a hell of a deal going on there.

So, in closing: Help from parents is good if you need it, even though society seems to look on it as failure to be self sufficient and all that. Spending all your money on pointless junk and having to ask for help consistently is bad. Don't be that person, people. When I get a job and am able to, I am going to start paying back the money I borrowed, because Mum has spent so much on me, I want to give some back now that I can. I don't want to have to depend on anyone because it makes me think I am a failure at being a grownup, if you get what I mean.




Man, that's a big old wall of writing. Sorry about that, guys.

[Social Bacon]

Haven't had a chance to read all the responses yet and I'm about to run off to work, so I'll save my comments for when I get back.
 
I'm 17, just finished high school and am going to Ottawa next year to study economics. I'll rant briefly about economics for a second; I've always been very left wing and believed that our society is not economically fair. The one thing that my study of economics has shown me is that the cause of inequality is parents passing their wealth onto their children. Needless to say this education has had a huge impact on my opinions.

Anyways, I come from a family that was formerly quite well off but do to my father becoming very ill we nearly lost everything. As such my parents have little to contribute to my education at this point, but due to our financial situation I qualify for enough government loans to cover the cost of the majority of my education. The remaining costs are being covered by me working my ass off; for my last two years of high school I worked overnight shifts as a porter, which paid very well due to the stupid hours, and sure I didn't sleep at night but I learned to cope because I needed the money and still maintained a very good average in tough courses at school.

Quite honestly I'm glad to be independent and taking care of myself, I hate to rely on and be a burden for others. Just something special about doing things for yourself. I respect people that continue to live with their parents because it is a good financial decision and if your parents are well off then you can't get loans for schooling and whatnot; but I loathe people who are spoiled. If you're parents give you a car to drive, pay your insurance, pay your cell phone bill and give you an iPod every time a new one comes out then I consider you spoiled and a representation of all the economic inequality in the world.

[fatty]

I'm interested in the way I think a lot of (maybe even a majority of) people, are secretly uncomfortable with the idea of being supported by their parents or they secretly think it is the more lazy option. It's good to hear what people think of their own situation and what they think is lazy versus practical.

How about what is 'sheltered' and 'independent' and how financial (and emotional) independence affects your lifestyle and your experiences?

Living at home, I really appreciate clean laundry and food, and I support that by taking care of the house, cleaning, cooking and stuff when I am available. I would move out to be closer to university, if rent was a somehow feasible option and I had a good housemate, but with the schedule I keep for university, not being able to eat leftovers when I get back at late from school and then having to laundry before the next day would probably suck.

Hannah and bro's situation is interesting, because I think people are drawing a line between mooching and being sensible with money and that basically illustrates it.

My parents both lived away from home from a young age, my mum says it was a struggle, especially as they were both overseas students with very little help and support from family in a different country. But I'm with Oli on the point that they have worked super hard in their lives, and they've always maintained the values about money. Education, children, and health are the things they are willing to spend money on, as investments for the future. I really appreciate that, it inspires me to do the same and be independent when I can.

Edit: After considering Social Bacon's post, I'll add one thing. My friend once commented that if you're okay/well-off, your kids will be too. They won't easily slip down into poverty except through stupidity or major misfortune. It's natural for young people with financially secure parents to move quickly towards their own security. Those who are on the borederline struggle a lot more to reach that level of security before they have children themselves. So while it's noble to say that starting out on your own with nothing is the more 'fair' option, it's a bit rich(ignore that pun) say everyone shouldn't accept what help and support they get.

[usmcnavgeek]

I'm 23.  Not too long after I joined the Marines, I declared (mostly to myself, mind you) that I was completely free of my parents and wouldn't go to them for any kind of financial help.  And I haven't.  Keep in mind, my situation is by no means normal, because I essentially joined the workforce right out of high school.  And, of course, if everything in my life somehow imploded, I would turn to them if it came to that.  But, I haven't had to yet.  So here's where I stand. 

No credit card debt.  None.  Zip.  Zero.  Zilch.
I've got a car mostly paid-for, and the means (aka savings and state aid) to continue making payments.
I've got college paid for, thanks to the state and federal programs provided for veterans.
I have about $20,000 in a couple different retirement accounts.

About the only help I'm accepting from my family now is a place to crash at for a couple months until college starts in the fall.  I buy my own food (though I do accept offers to dinner from my folks), my own gas, etc.  They don't charge me rent but if they did I could manage.

But, before I decided to enter the military, my parents had this deal:  I pay for my first year of college, and they pick up the remaining three.  They COULD have paid for all of it, sure, but they wanted me to understand, I think, the financial burden of doing that, to some extent.  And so I don't have any problem with kids accepting financial help from their parents.  I think they're going to give me some living money before I head off to college and while I won't turn it down, I won't NEED it, either.  I accepted the $3500 in federal subsidized student loans just in case.


So, to sum up, I feel that financial independence is something to strive for, but in the case of an average 18-year-old person just setting out for college it's somewhat unreasonable to expect.

[Blue Kitty]

I am currently in college, have a pretty steady job ($8 an hour, though I will have to get a new one once I get to school), but I still live with my mother.  I don't exactly pay my mom anything, besides car insurance money for the cars that she has bought for my sister and I to use (though the only reason is because it is so high).

I am kind of sad that I am still with my mom and I wish I could get my own place, but so far I don't have money for it.  Thanks to the few tickets I have gotten I have to pay $225 a month (which will increase thanks to my "improper passing" ticket) and I don't have any savings thanks to the fact that I got my first paying job 2 years ago (I could only get volunteer jobs up until then).  Though she does provide room, board, and food, my mom does not actually pay for my college education, and the state does not either thanks to the fact that my mom makes so much. I can rely on my dad though since he hasn't paid a cent yet but only because I have not asked him to.  It seems like every time I pay for my classes I have to clean out my account.

I don't want to see I look down at people that "mooch" off of their parents, but it is the thing that I do, though I do hate it at times.  I am looking forward to moving out and getting out on my own, getting my own place with my own money, but I only see that happening after I have graduated and gotten a good mortician's job.

[Cartilage Head]

 Jesus christ I spent like ten minutes typing a post and something fucked up. Fucking hell. To hell with this goddamn thread.

[RedLion]

I wouldn't say that I'm financially independent, as, even though I'm going to college in less than a month, my parents are paying for most of the cost of the dorm. Additionally, because of the Mobil Speedpass that my parents had put on the keychain to the car that has passed on to me, whenever I pay for gas, it's put into a fund that it divided between their bank account and mine, so I don't even pay the full price of my gas. However, I pay for most other things myself--food, clothes, internet, cable, car insurance, etc.

I think that as I'm in college I'll probably be forced to leech off of my parents for various purposes; but as Beloit gives you a job on campus, I'll be making $1,500 dollars during the school year. Not a windfall, but enough to finance my discretionary spending, I should think, combined with the 800 or so I currently have in my checking account--again, not a goldmine, but enough.

The real question about financial independence will come when I reach age 21 and then have access to the funds that my rather well-off grandma left for me in her will (some $40,000 dollars). My grandfather was the vice-president of one of the biggest companies in America in the late 1950's--I can't remember the name, which I know seems suspicious, but it's the truth. After he passed away, that money obviously transferred to my grandmother, who died just a year ago. I think she intended that money to be used as a nest egg--to put a good chunk towards the purchase of a home, etc. But I wonder if, when I reach the age when I need to use that money, since it's not money that I actually earned myself, will that qualify as being financially independent, since I won't be reliant on my parents?

I feel almost guilty about it, like I shouldn't have that money, because with it, I know that no matter what, I won't be sleeping on the streets. I'm very big on the idea of self-sufficiency, but I've never been self-sufficient in my life, and I won't be for awhile still, as I go through college, those expenses are being largely subsidized by my parents, and once I get out of college, I have that lump sum to help me get started up with a "real" life. Am I justified in feeling that way? Or should I just be happy about it and stop whining?

[negative creep]

I will turn 22 in about a month. I just finished my first semester of university (not the first i started) and my parents pay for my rent (€150) and give me another 150 for food and other stuff. As some of you might remember, I go to university in Mainz, which is quite far away from here, at least to do what I'm doing, going home almost every weekend. That means two things: first, I spend €32 each weekend for train tickets; second, I can work on the weekend in a pub. I don't earn much there, but it helps.

Without my parents, though, I couldn't support myself without a full tim job, which would lead to me doing even less for university than I do as it is. I don't see that as leeching (much), as I fully intend to do the same to my children. You could call it a cycle, except that my parents were not supported by their parents, which led to my mother having to work full tim from the age of 14 and my father, who was not only not supported by his parents, but had to actually support them, was unable to get his degree and thus had to get a different job, which paid (as he didn't finish university) much less than most other jobs he could have had if he had finished university.

I am ignoring the fact that he was actually studying thology and wanted to become a Roman Catholic priest.

In conclusion: I think it's ok to be supported by your parents, if they can afford it.

[tania]

i actually recommend moving out for college if it isn't financially stressful in any way. if you don't move out of your parents house for college, your next opportunity probably won't come until you're done. could be anywhere from two to five years later. the sooner you figure out how to routinely do things like pay bills and cook for yourself and do laundry and so on, the more it helps you with the whole transitioning-into-adulthood thing. i would probably be pretty useless at just about every life skill had i stayed with my parents for university. if your parents are okay with treating you like a tenant and making you do everything yourself then i guess that eliminates the problem.

basically i moved out for school when i was 17 and my parents admittedly did and are still helping me out a lot. i can't actually qualify for student loans since they are able to afford my tuition so easily, so i try not to feel too bad. i take full time courses and work full time during summer and usually part time during the school year as well. i also buy absolutely nothing fun, ever, so i guess that's kind of fair. the rule me and my parents sort of discussed was that since i'd decided to move out instead of staying in markham and going to u of t, they'd still pay my tuition while i'd pay my rent and utilities and food and basically everything else. this year that has changed a bit because in order to graduate next year i had to take some summer school, which meant i could only work one job this summer instead of two, and next year i'll be doing some pretty intense volunteer work that involves a whole mess of constant training and thus elimininates any possibility of holding a job on top of that as well. overall my situation is probably alright because i've constantly tried really fucking hard throughout school and my grades are pretty excellent and the volunteer position will probably help out a lot in finding employment once i've graduated. once in a while i wish i could have done the loan thing though. asking your family for financial support is always pretty shitty.

[yelley]

the deal with my parents was always that school is my full time job and i have no time for anything else. so for my undergraduate they are paying off all of my loans and during school they gave me money for whatever i needed. i lived on campus for all four years, partially because it was cheaper but mostly because i had no close female friends that i actually wanted to put forth effort to live with. they have a lot of loans left to pay off from me... since ND was around 27K a year when i started and closer to 36K a year when i finished. i have a sister that is 20, she is a senior at purdue this fall, and she just could not stand to live on campus any longer... she got an apartment last year with a roommate that ended up being a bitch and this year she is renting a house. she has to keep a job while at school to pay for the rent and bills and our parents are not happy about this... especially since her grades are dropping and she rarely has enough money to cover everything for the month and someone has to wire her money every now and then. usually it is my parents, but on numerous occasions i have had to send her money too. i think she's up to around $1200 that she owes me, but i doubt i'll ever collect on that. i find it terribly annoying that she needs all this extra money all the time, just because the dorm scene was cramping her party style... and now i am off on a tangent.

after college i lived with my parents for a few months while working and saving for japan. as soon as i left for japan i was totally on my own and supported myself for the year i was there. when i got back i lived with my parents again until i found a job and moved into an apartment with jason. i was pretty stable there until i got fired (yes, i am a racesist, thank you) and then that summer my parents did help me out a bit with rent when my savings started to run out. now i am 24, i moved to california, i have a pretty decent job and money to pay my rent and bills and things, and i am financially independent unless you count that part where my parents are still paying off my student loans. but i know that if things go horribly wrong and i find myself jobless and unable to afford a place to live that i would still be welcome at my parents' house. i would feel really bad about needing their help like that again... but i'm not too proud to accept it or anything.

i think it's fine for parents to support their children through college and to help them out a bit when they get their first jobs and first places on their own. the important part is that the child (well, technically an adult) is genuinely trying to become self-sufficient through education or work. i know a fair few people my age or older that still live rent free at their parents' house and aren't really trying to finish college/get a better job/move out... that irks me a bit because i feel bad for their parents.

[parm]

So yeah, this thread makes me feel old.

When I went to University, it was in the UK under the old grants/LEA system where your tuition costs were covered and students from "disadvantaged" families were given maintenance grants to help with their living expenses. The expectation was that parents from better off families would help out paying living expenses. The expectation was also, however, that students would live in borderline poverty, eat a shitload of pot noodles, drink 90p-a-pint beer and emerge into a moderately well paid job at the other end just in time to stave off malnutrition and buy some clothes without holes in, as opposed to the lap of designer-clothes-expensive-bars-and-iPods luxury that they seem to live in now, at least in the UK.

Anyway, the deal was that my parents would cover my rent and a moderate living allowance for food and general subsistence, and anything else was down to me - either I got a loan, or I got a job. My general approach was to take a job during the holidays, either back home with my parents or wihlst living in hilariously cheap (£12.50 a week was the cheapest) student houses and just save the money for spending during term time. Between my third and fourth years, I did voluntary work for the summer and ended up taking out a loan to cover that; I didn't return to my parents house beyond the first year, other than for visits at Christmas, etc. Once I graduated and had a steady job (the two basically happened simultaneously), parental support ended pretty much immediately, and it was up to me to clear my debts and manage money for myself. Which I think I've done okay on - my car is paid for, I've got no more than a couple of hundred quid on my credit card, my loan is paid off, and I've got no other real debts. Mind you, it's less than a year until I'm 30 now, so you'd sort of hope I'd have things sorted by now, really.

I know a few people who went back to live with their parents "just to tide things over", and ended up being stuck there for ages; responsibility and independence is a big scary thing and some people prefer to just hide away from it - but the longer you put it off, the harder it becomes to adjust, I think. So I'd definitely recommend moving out sooner rather than later, and learning how to, y'know, cook and clean and that. But equally well, don't be ashamed of parental help whilst you're finding your feet; the chances are, they're a lot more stable financially than you are, have some buffer and their interest rates are likely to be a lot more generous than your bank's. And you'll probably pay it all back, in a sense, if and when your kids go off to University too.

I appreciate the situation is vastly different in terms of fees and loans, etc. both in the US and in the UK now, compared to when I was a student, and that I was lucky to come out of Uni with no more than a couple of thousand of debt, but in terms of being independent both financially and personally, I think some of the same principles still apply.

[Dissy]

I'm now 21, and I've been living off an on with my parents since I was 16.

I dropped out of High School after my junior year, and started college just as I turned 17.  I got a job, and my parents payed for my first semester of college, and I moved a couple of blocks away paying very cheap rent to a family friend for a room.  I was able to be financially independent for about 8 months, biking to school, paying for food and stuff.  Then, I got hit by a car, and chipped a bone in my elbow.  I was then too scared to bike for a while, and drove everywhere, and the added gas money practically bankrupted me.

Lately, I've been dorming with a friend, going home on the weekends and over the summer, working, and barely getting by.  Any time I need financial help, my parents are more than happy to help.

[parm]

Good post, Parm. I only finished Uni a couple of years ago so I managed to completely miss grants and my student accommodation was a fortune every bloomin' year. I worked the whole time I was there and I still finished uni with about £15,000 of loans. I have a pretty good job and hopefully if I ever sell this house, I'll be able to finally pay the buggers off.

For what it's worth, if you're in the UK financial advisors generally tell you not to worry about trying to pay off your student loans before you have to (ie, stick with the minimum payments) because the chances are you'll get more in interest if you stick the money you'd spend on paying them off into a savings account than the loans would cost you.

Of course, I'm not a financial advisor, so I could be hugely, embarassingly wrong about this, so don't blame me if you end up with a billion pounds of student debt at age 65.

As a side note, I noticed student accomodation got vastly more expensive just after I left University (my then-girlfriend, now-wife started Uni 2 years after I did) - a lot of the University owned halls of residence closed down and because of a change in regulations, a lot of them lost their subsidies. And of course, house prices going insane and correspondingly pushing rents up didn't help. I have some sympathy for poor students - just not the ones I see with high-def tellies, designer clothes and better laptops than I have 

[tania]

most of my close friends in university, while amazing people, are also ridiculously rich and it kind of clouds my judgment about what it's like to be a student because next to them i constantly feel completely poor for having to turn things down on the basis that they are too expensive, yet at the same time as far as student life goes i definitely am pretty lucky. i think maybe sometimes they get the idea that i look down on them from a pedestal or something but i just don't feel comfortable buying things i don't need when the money i'm spending isn't actually mine... i know it's normal to get spending money from your parents when you're a student but it just makes me feel really guilty. anytime i borrow money from them i go into this sad reclusive state where i buy the cheapest food possible and that's about it. part of it might be that i don't like them, i don't know. i have sisters who are much older than me and they've constantly pressured me to grow up and act more mature, which probably did make me mature faster but also may have instilled some kind of guilt about being the age i am. i just don't feel okay being dependent on anyone and never really have, which is hard in university because you can't really be anything but. basically i need to sack up.

[mooface]

i am super super lucky and very grateful to my parents because if it wasn't for them i would never be able to go to university in rome.  up until my first year of college i was not allowed to have a job, which is pretty extreme and which i was always completely against.  but my dad always gave me two options:  either you can work but you have totally support yourself or you can't work but i will pay for everything.  this was pretty ridiculous and eventually became unfeasible because my family is not rich and i have a younger brother and sister who both also need to be supported.  so ever since the summer after my freshman year i have been consistently working.  unfortunately, part-time jobs are not really the norm in italy so i can only work at school, which pays very little.  i make enough to cover my rent and part of my bills.

i am really glad for their support.  without it there is no way i could afford to go to school anywhere besides my hometown.  also, the fact that i don't have to worry about having a job that covers all my expenses means i have more time for studying, pursuing whatever interests or hobbies i have, and it also means i will have the opportunity to intern & volunteer at places (FAO & WFP) which will give me experience for the career i want to pursue even if they don't pay me.  i graduate this december, though, and once i do i will be completely financially independent.  what i will probably end up doing is actually moving back home for a couple months where i can easily get a job that pays a lot & can save up enough to have something in the bank before i completely cut myself off.  i'm not going to do it because i feel like leeching (it's actually the last thing i want to do), but i feel like it's just the smart & responsible thing to do.

i can't wait for the day when i am totally independent - i am really looking forward to it.  but i don't feel bad that i rely on my parents for financial support because i am otherwise completely self-reliant.  i live on my own in another country where i take care of myself and my dog, rarely ask for more than my monthly allowances, work, study, and am graduating early.  also, my parents know that it is an investment in a way.  they know that when they are old and retired i will take care of them, and if my brother or sister need help that i can be there to bail them out instead of them. 

[Social Bacon]

Wow, this whole thread has been a great read. Thanks for starting this fatty.

I was able to be financially independent for about 8 months, biking to school, paying for food and stuff.  Then, I got hit by a car, and chipped a bone in my elbow.  I was then too scared to bike for a while

I got hit by a bus once while biking and rolled through an intersection almost getting run over by a few other cars. But I was in a huge rush to get somewhere, so I didn't notice how close I came to dying and I just got up, apologized to the bus driver (it was her fault, but I just wanted to get going) got on my bike and kept going. It wasn't until I got home and found that my entire body was cut and bruised did I realize that the bumper of the bus was a few inches from my head when I was lying on the ground. I don't bike on the road anymore because fucking idiots don't know how to drive around bikes.

[waterloosunset]

I found out a couple of days ago that I got my internship!! Starting work monday in a finance firm, through to the end of September when I go to uni.
for uni, my mum said she'll pay for my accommodation (get loans and grants from the government as well for fees), but actual living costs i.e clothes, going out,  I'll have to pay for myself.

[blankfile]

I "Declared" myself financially independent back when i was 17. Had to choose between staying at home with my parents or going on my own to another school in Paris, and well, i chose the latter. I had some money saved because i was living in such a tiny village that there were pretty much no way to spend my well-earned money, and that kept me alive while i was in Europe. When i came back to Canada i was 18,  lived at my parent's place for 2 months  in order to fill some university paperwork and find myself an apartment, then moved to Montreal. I worked for 4 months on a few different projects and made a decent load of money, Since then, i'm going at university full time, while working on some web development by the nights. However, lately, finances have been dropping low enough for me to reconsider my full-time studies, so i applied for a few serious jobs, and got recruited by the CSA (Canadian Space Agency). Starting september 9th i will be working there full time, and following a few night classes at university.

So yeah, since i was 17 i did not ask my parents for anything but 2 months of lodging, and i hope i will not have to do so anytime soon. I've been enough of a burden for them already, and i do prefer living on my own.

At that pace, i should be getting my engineer diploma in 3.5 years from now, making me almost 24 years old.

[evernew]

Attention: Long Post Ahead.
There's a list of bullet points in the middle that sums up some of it.
If you want the gravy, though, you'll have to read it all.

=== THE EDUCATION OF ME ===

I went to school for four years and am now two weeks away from graduating. During that time I did internships and two semesters abroad, all as a part of the curriculum.
My school's tuition is a lot higher than usual (until last year public university was pretty much free here) because it is a private school.

When it was time to decide what I was going to do after high school and this school came up, I asked my parents if they would support me going there seeing as I would have no time to work at all aside from internships over summer break. They said yes.

We only _really_ got down to talking about the finances of it when I was accepted and they realized that I'd actually cost them a lot of money over the next four years. Because of better employment chances, integrated exchange semesters, shorter study time and high quality of education, we decided it was a good idea.

During my first semesters, I lived alone in a small flat at the bottom of the rent scale. My parents paid my rent and a monthly allowance - the same that my older siblings who are also going to school get. There are federal programs to support students but because my family is over the income threshold, I did not qualify. Because of the same threshold, it was also nearly impossible for me to get a scholarship. This left me having to depend on my parents' support, pretty much.

During these first semesters, I worked in IT support at my school. The pay was sweet and the IT department trusted us a lot (we could bill hours ourselves without much checking) and that's where I made some pocket money.

My first internship was in England where I shelled out 60% of what I earned just for rent. But I scraped by and aside from the plane tickets I paid for everything myself.
In the second one I made a little bit more money while spending a lot less, so I ended up saving about 500 € a month there.
Then I went abroad for a semester (which I got an exchange scholarship of 600 € for) and pretty much squandered that and some of my savings.
Then I went abroad again and squandered the rest.

When I came back, I got the same money as before but since my new flat was more expensive, I was left with less money to live each month. Because I was also finally getting my driver's license and paying for the lessons myself, I needed more extra cash than the IT support could generate.
Fortunately, our student body has a company where we do project-based work for other companies and get almost double than what I earned for IT support. So I started doing more and more of these projects. Sometimes I did freelance translation works but not very often.

During my last internship I lived at home and only had to pay for my lunch and public transportation to get to the office - yet I didn't save that much because I wasn't paid that much either.

That's the story so far. The cornerstones:

* School cost me more money than I could have earned before.
* School took too much time to have a steady job (which would not have covered much at all either).
* Work on the side helped me save a little extra and afford some extravaganza's here and there.
* The further along I was, the better I was paid.
* I supported myself during all internships but could not do so during the semesters.

A thing about my school is that it's somewhat of a flytrap to rich kids. I'm not saying I'm not a rich kid by definition but the demeanor and the scale of the other students' parental support makes me look like a hobo around here.

I don't look down on people who get supported by their parents. For many people here, it's the only way.
But I also expect no being-looked-down-upon by those who can support themselves.

When I made the decision of going to this particular school, a key rationale behind it was that I would be through much faster and earn much more money than any other way I could have played it. My parents know that, too.

When they are mad at me, they sometimes accuse me of squandering their money without being good for anything and this riles me up so I tell them I'll pay them back and whatever.

This will never happen and we both know it. They see the cost of my education as an investment because I am able to support myself much faster (I'm 22 now and hold a Master's degree) than usual. Also, my siblings are all going to school for longer times than me and are likely to earn less at least in the beginning.
Since they serve as a basis for comparison, I'm not even that expensive.

I tried to be financially independent as much as I could - even to the point where I asked my parents to only pay the rent and nothing else to see how well I could handle it.

Side topic:
My former best friend pretty much kicked me out of his life because I went to a 'posh' school. He goes to school right where we went to high school and if I'm not mistaken he still lives with his parents. I'm not looking down on him for that. He looks down on me for what I did, however. (Also, he believes I'm the incarnation of the devil because I'm in business administration).
That holier-than-thou attitude pisses me off.
Sure I could have stayed at home and gone to school there but I didn't have to. And if there's one thing in life that everyone has told me and that I have also figured out myself it's that chances are there to be taken. In the end, he spent an entire year abroad in Spain on a government grant. Paid by tax money. So instead of having his parents or himself or a scholarship or whatever pay for it, he got _everyone_ involved. And still I'm the bad person for him. Meh.

I could have gone to school here without my parents' support as well. There's tons of financing programs like giving 10% of your salary for the first 7 years, getting an interest-free loan from the local bank and a couple of students each year get to study here without tuition fees as well.
But I'm glad that it worked out this way because I get to enjoy a full salary and no loans.

Because I went through the entire thing so quickly, I even get to slack and travel for half a year before jumping into the hamster wheel that is the corporate world, courtesy of my parents. I'm very grateful for that. It's my graduation present.

And since I'll be self-sufficient at the age of 22, I like to believe that my parents didn't cut a bad deal either. All my siblings have never had any kind of real job so far. So while yes, I relied on them for almost everything, I'm not even that bad.

[Hat]

I have parents who pay for my university fees, loan me some money for uni related stuff if I need it (just borrowed 14 hundos to buy a laptop that'll take me most of the semester to pay off) and they would have been perfectly happy having me live with them and pay board (some measly amount, I think it was 50 a week last time I was living with them) which includes pretty much all living expenses except the internet, which I paid for.

Unfortunately, this sweet arrangement is tempered by the fact that I cannot stand living with my parents (not in the sense that they were 'cramping my style' but more in the sense that I come from, and am inherently part of, a family of hysterical melodramatics who have epic arguments that typically end in breaking furniture just to make a point) , so I moved out when I was about 19. I'm 23 at the moment and in the second year of a BA, and am arguably financially independent. I still get my HECS fees paid for me, but if they ever decided to stop paying them I'd still be able to get the government to give me a HECS loan, and the only reason I borrow money off my parents for uni related things instead of getting a personal loan is because they basically told me if I did something as stupid as get a personal loan when they have the cash lying around, they'd disown me.

I earn about 600 dollars a week in my job, doing a pretty normal amount of part time work (I do about 32 hours a week at the moment, but only because I did part time uni this semester to give myself some time to relax), when I was going to uni full time, I was still earning plenty to support myself and have a life, albeit one mostly involving cheap liquor and egg and rice.

I think the important distinction between people who "leech" off their parents and people who are making a smart financial decision is future intent. If you are being supported by your parents to study something you are genuinely interested in, and want to pursue a career in,  there's no problem with that at all. What I have more of a problem with is people who go off to university straight out of highschool with no idea what they want to study, and live with their parents for the entire duration of their degree, only to keep living with them because they have a useless degree. It seems to me that in situations like this its a kid who is terrified of really growing up and entering the real world, and just wants to go back to a more sophisticated version of high school.

However, if your parents are happy to support you, and you're happy to be supported by your parents, you probably shouldn't give a shit what anyone else says. Some people are a lot closer to their parents than others and it might be nice to live with them for longer than your average person does, if you have one of those families

[jhocking]

Also, the 3 birds I mentioned previously make it so I can never have an apartment. This means I have to wait until I can afford my own house.

man talk about your rationalization.

[Social Bacon]

Overly long winded self righteous ramble.

fixed.

[calenlass]

I am currently borrowing money to pay my rent and bills from my parents, and they set up a fund to help pay for school for each of my sisters and me, so they are paying my tuition as well. I pay my dad a monthly installment for car insurance (which is in his name) and the car payment (since I bought it from him), and I am still on their health insurance plan and they pay my medical bills and (don't ask me why... I didn't) my mom pays for one tank of fuel for my car every month. They also give me a $50 gift card to a local Kroger grocery.

So this bothers me quite a lot. I can't afford to change anything right now, especially since I don't have a job, but my parents also raised me to be independent. I get antsy sometimes because they pay for pretty much my entire life. It also bothers me because it means I have to keep lying to them (or, well, at least telling half-truths) about who I am going to visit and how I met them and what I do with my time, because if it were something immoral, like SEX, they would cut me off (they told me this specifically). It is kind of a difficult situation, I guess, mostly because I wish I weren't dependent on anyone but myself, but I am not going to really complain about the situation to anyone but my psychiatrist because I can't afford anything else and, really, who in their right mind would complain about free food and living expenses?

[Skibas_clavicle]

2 jobs! I live with my 'rents so they pay for the house and I cover pretty much everything else (school, transportation, clothing, entertainment, I'd say at least half of what I eat, etc.). They bail me out when I need them to, but that's a rare occurence these days. I try to work hard and get my shit together. I'm only at home half of the evenings and to sleep, so my living arrangement isn't half bad as of late.

[Kai]

Overly long winded self righteous ramble.

fixed.

Dear sir:

This is pretty silly! And kind of aggravating. I am not sure what about that post RUFFLED YOUR FEATHERS to so rudely cast it off and dismiss it utterly, especially when all it really did was answer the question that the OP asked! You sir, you makes no sense.


(alternative answer: fuck off and die)

[Ozymandias]

I was pretty much independent until about two months ago, when I got kicked of school and subsequently lost my job. It basically sucked horrifically. I was naive enough to think that that would take a couple of weeks at most to fix, so now I'm dependent on my parents again until I get this mess sorted out. Once I get things back in gear, I'll pay my mom back and hopefully keep it together this time, but I feel pretty terrible that this happened because I am 22 and should have my shit together a bit better than that.

Oh well!

[Social Bacon]

Overly long winded self righteous ramble.

fixed.

Dear sir:

This is pretty silly! And kind of aggravating. I am not sure what about that post RUFFLED YOUR FEATHERS to so rudely cast it off and dismiss it utterly, especially when all it really did was answer the question that the OP asked! You sir, you makes no sense.


(alternative answer: fuck off and die)

Yes, you're right and I apologize. The post aggravated me enough to not give a good retort to it; But it's not my place to do so in this thread anyways. Evernew, if you are offended please PM me so we can keep it out of this thread.

Again, I apologize for letting emotions get the better of me. I'd hate to see this thread locked.

[Oli]

I'd think if you added to the discussion with reasonable points as to why it aggravated you (provided that it's on topic and not something completely inane) it would be good. I mean the thread is great as is, but it is in danger of turning into a somewhat repetitive list thread; albeit a pretty darn wordy one. With that in mind I'd say that friendly (emphasis on that) discussion of points raised in some posts wouldn't hurt it.

[RedLion]

So how exactly do you define financial independence, then? Complete and total self-sufficiency, including housing, education costs, and such? Or does paying for all your discretionary spending, your food, clothes, gas, car, etc, count?

[fatty]

This was discussed briefly in previous threads such as the college one, but in a narrow way, I didn't feel there was enough complete debate of the topic. I'll set up a few points/parameters, but please let this not be a 'list thread' or 'everyone tell your story but don't comment on anything else' kind of thing. Also, lets avoid debates about semantics, I hope I'm not asking too much?

I'll quote my original post, because Oli is spot in pointing out what this thread is in danger of becoming. Surprisingly, this is not a thread for your life story. The first set of questions is actually just a set up for a discussion on the second set of questions. I can't generate this discussion myself, but I am interesting in what a lot of people have to say, and have been reading all these posts.

I was pretty much independent until about two months ago, when I got kicked of school and subsequently lost my job. It basically sucked horrifically. I was naive enough to think that that would take a couple of weeks at most to fix, so now I'm dependent on my parents again until I get this mess sorted out. Once I get things back in gear, I'll pay my mom back and hopefully keep it together this time, but I feel pretty terrible that this happened because I am 22 and should have my shit together a bit better than that.

I get why you feel terrible, but I don't think you should! It's not like we all go to a school for dealing with Life Giving You A Hard Time, I hope it gets better for you soon! I know I would have no experience with those kinds of things, so I would say, take it as a case of 'live and learn!'.

--
I think if anyone should look down their noses at someone because of money and an easy life, it should be me. I mean, my parents are pretty well off and I've got a credit card, a car and an investment portfolio to play with. HECS covers most of the uni fees, and my parents pay the gap because it's 20% cheaper than tkaing out a loan for it myself. The investments are mine, and the money I have a second credit card on my own account which is a no-fee one that I'm not allowed to use. My parents pay my car insurance and medicare and my mother wants me to get lazer eye surgery before I turn 21 so it can go under her insurance.
So bascially when I'm 21 I would have graduated from my first degree, Have maybe a bunch of money in investments and savings, 5 years of no-claim car insurance and 3 years of clean credit background and probably be able to take a year off study to work and travel before doing my Masters in Architecture. Considering that I expect to be paid rubbish for the first 5 years I work in the architecture industry at least, it's important to me that I work super hard to get financially stable so that I can committ to my univeristy and work and move into financial independence when I can. Having a mum with a finance degree and an MBA helps.

The fact is, I probably won't struggle as much as a lot of other people, but I'm not going to make excuses for that. I think striving for independence because it means you're a better, more experienced and worldly person is bullshit. The concept of 'inheritance', raised earlier in this thread is an example. Would you say 'no' to that money because you didn't earn it? I know what I would do with inheritance, I'd invest it, set aside a chunk for philantropic investments and a chunk for the future.

I will re-phrase my earlier inquiry, what does having 'financial independence' suggest to you about a person's worldly experiences?

Edit:

So how exactly do you define financial independence, then? Complete and total self-sufficiency, including housing, education costs, and such? Or does paying for all your discretionary spending, your food, clothes, gas, car, etc, count?

I'd say it was complete self-sufficiency, but then consider the above questions on inheritance and shared investments? Is independence more focused on the social independence, or maybe the emotional independence that 100% financial issues? Does having school bills paid but living on your own earnings count? The situation is probably just as relevant.

[Thlayli]

I will re-phrase my earlier inquiry, what does having 'financial independence' suggest to you about a person's worldly experiences?

Edit:

So how exactly do you define financial independence, then? Complete and total self-sufficiency, including housing, education costs, and such? Or does paying for all your discretionary spending, your food, clothes, gas, car, etc, count?

I'd say it was complete self-sufficiency, but then consider the above questions on inheritance and shared investments? Is independence more focused on the social independence, or maybe the emotional independence that 100% financial issues? Does having school bills paid but living on your own earnings count? The situation is probably just as relevant.

I'm sorta of two minds on this stuff. As someone who studied finance and accounting in college, I see complete financial independence as unattainable; we all have to use some amount of debt as a bargaining chip to get what we need from the people we trade with in society. A little bit of debt is healthy, such as carrying a tiny amount on your credit statement, or owing a good friend from the time they let you crash on their couch for a week.

But I also tend to look down on people (including myself) who just don't pull their own weight.  When someone is an able-bodied person with a full education and a good job, it strikes me as lazy if they still live with their folks for free rather than striking out on their own. You can't call yourself independent if you rely on other people for one of the base blocks of Maslo's hierarchy.

[Social Bacon]

I'll add more to what pissed me off about evernew later perhaps, as Oli suggested. But now is not the time.

On the note of inheritance: my grandfather was an incredibly wealthy man, but he lived modestly and honestly. He died before I was born. I've just recently found out that I'm due to receive inheritance from him in the amount of $100,000 when I turn 30 (he left this amount for each of his 10(!) grandchildren). I can claim it earlier if I need it for school. I've tried to deny this money, but I can't, all the legal business has been sorted out and I get it whether I want it or not. How do I take $100,000 from I man that I never met? How can I take that in good conscience knowing, with my economic education, that it's because of inheritance that the world is unfair? How can I accept $100,000 that fucks over every else who's not getting it? Inheritance fucks the entire economic model on which our society is based. My parents call me insane because I keep trying to get rid of the money, but that money is the reason that the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. When I receive it I'm going to give it all to charity. Fuck that shit, I will not be responsible for adding to the ruin of a just society.

[est]

Give it to me.

[est]

I will invest it in hookers and also gin.