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[carrotosaurus]

Has anyone gotten it yet? What do you think?

I got it last night and the fighting engine has been slowed down a bit, but they really balanced all the characters out and it's a lot more fun to play. Plus the graphics are really purty.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

i'm gonna go rent it in a little while (lunchbreak) but won't be able to play until i get off work.

[Jackie Blue]

I played it a bunch last night.  I don't know about this "character balance" of which you speak.  I played online and pretty much everyone used Kilik (or a custom character with one of his weapons) and spammed long-distance attacks.

Also, apparently nobody else in the world has a "block" button on their controller because any time I managed to get in close all I had to do was keep attacking.

SC is supposed to be more of a strategic game yet people are (successfully) treating it like Smash Brothers.  

It's still really fun, no online lag, Create a Character is pretty good, kind of disappointed in the very limited single player modes, gorgeous graphics, really like the "bonus characters" which I hadn't even heard about.

Looks like 90% of the time I'll be playing my custom Seong Mina style character if I want to win consistently, which is kind of disappointing because that's what I've always done in these games.  

tl;dr - Not quite enough new on the table for this entry, but still the best fighting game around.

[carrotosaurus]

I haven't played it online yet, and I'm not a big proponent of online fighting game play. But sitting around with my friends playing it last night it was pretty fantastic, because we're all big Soul Caliber geeks and don't treat it like Smash Brothers... If that's the case it looks like I'll still be avoiding online play. I'm in full agreement with Yahtzee in that 360 is full of hooting dicks that have no idea what's going on.

I like the new armor break system, and aside from looking really cool when someone's helmet breaks off and the like, it adds incentive to actually aim your attacks instead of button-mashing like a fiend (Maxi).

I'm a Yun-Seong guy myself, and they did change a few of his moves around, but nothing drastic. They took out a lot of the cheapness of Ivy and Raphael as well.

Anyway, I agree it's not the best, but it's much better than SC3 which I thought was really crippled when compared to the SC1 or 2 fighting engine.

Yeah, it's no Virtua Fighter, but it's the first fighting game in a while I've been excited about getting home for so I can play.

One other thing is that Yoda is kind of terrible, and I'm pretty apathetic towards the whole Star Wars characters thing. The 5 new bonus characters are really cool though.

What I'd really like is some DLC that doesn't suck.

[Jackie Blue]

Oh, another thing that really annoys me is that every piece of clothing changes your stats, so instead of being encouraged to create unique looking characters, it seems that unless you want to be handicapped you should just always use the "best" equipment.

I played against one person last night who had some huge uber hammer equipped that did about half my life bar in damage per hit.  No exagerration.

I have a PS3, so I feel bad for how much worse it must be to play against the 360 crowd.  *shudder*

[KvP]

SC's a lot like Burnout, in that there was really one gameplay mode that really interested me and in every iteration that mode gets weaker and weaker and weaker. In Burnout it was crash mode, which has yet to be (and looks like it won't be) topped since 3 defined it. In Soul Caliber it was the "story" mode from 2. Yeah, the story was awful, but all the "locations" with their multiple versions (ice levels were the best) and the dungeons you played were pretty damn fun. 3's "tactical" campaign was fairly weak, but 4 manages to be even less compelling, replacing the campaign pretensions with a multi-tiered challenge tower thing that unlocks special equipment if you manage to pull off a (random?) unknown maneuver or strategy (switching out characters twice during a match, etc). It's funner from an Arcade perspective but I still long for the expansive mode of the second game.

[Ozymandias]

^ This.

Why can't we have Weapon Master mode back, just bigger and better?

[Storm Rider]

I agree wholeheartedly that Weapon Master was easily the most enjoyable and deep single player experience in the franchise, and I'm sad to hear that the new mode in this one doesn't recapture that.

That being said, I'm not particularly interested in fighting games anymore, because I don't really have anybody to play against and everybody online would kick my ass before I could even learn to play it properly so I probably won't bother. I mean, I only really bought 2 because I was 14 at the time and it had Link in it.

[Dimmukane]

I went and downloaded Geometry Wars 2 instead.  I did not see myself enjoying it that much more than the first one.  WOW.

[Jackie Blue]

More complaining: It seems that with every iteration of the series they make it more friendly for people who just randomly push buttons and want a flashy move to be the result, while at the same time making it more difficult to actually deliberately do the move you want to.

Example: Some moves are done by holding -> and pushing buttons, and some are done by pushing -> and then the same buttons.  In the heat of battle it is at best "annoying" and at worst "fucking frustrating" to make your character do what you want them to.  What was wrong with the days when moves were done with, I don't know, things like "forward back high punch" or "circle forward low kick"?  OK, it required more memorisation but jesus tapdancing christ if the current gaming generation can memorise 100 Rock Band songs can't they manage that?

Anyway, I distinctly remember that in SC and SC2 I was able to do exactly the moves I wanted when I wanted.  This time, not so much.

[KvP]

I've noticed that as well, but I'm thinking there's just some subtlety I'm missing, rather than move randomization. I haven't been screwed by the system yet.

[Chesire Cat]

SC is supposed to be more of a strategic game yet people are (successfully) treating it like Smash Brothers.  

Point of note: I was playing Kirby's All Star or something for the snes, and I kept getting owned by bosses because I would try to smash bros roll out of harms way.

Also, dont think that Smash Brothers lacks depth, its a very involved game.  Its just different from traditional fighters like SC or DoA

[Jackie Blue]

Oh no, I fucking love Smash Brothers, I was just pointing out that it's a very different playing style.

[Chesire Cat]

Yes but it still is very much strategic, its just more about level control  and arguably timing than about button combos.

[Cartilage Head]

 Is this game anything like Soulcalibur IV?

 Haha but seriously, I wish I had a PS3 or an XB360. This is the first game since those two systems have come out that I just HAVE to play.

[Storm Rider]

Point of note: I was playing Kirby's All Star or something for the snes, and I kept getting owned by bosses because I would try to smash bros roll out of harms way.

Kirby Super Star is the game you are thinking of, a game that is getting a remake for the DS soon.

[thepugs]

This series is the one game that I am a rabid fanboy for.  I bought it the day it came out, and with the exception of last night, have lost sleep playing it.

The first night I went and built the Hulk out of Astaroth (my char of choice), and from my experiences, the Kilik kids are boring and easily beatable (duck a lot and their three-hit horizontal and two-hit horizontal that goes high-low is useless).

I'm actually really enamored with the ability to play online - even if I do badly or have a bad experience, I still get to play - back in the day nobody wanted to play against me.

Also, I enjoy the holding versus tapping - it adds the possibility for more moves, and forces your timing to be good.  It's very much a game about precision.

[Jackie Blue]

Question, how do you beat the "Kilik kids" with a short-range attacker (like Talim)?  I mean, yes, you can duck their long-range attacks but if they're constantly using them, how do you manage to close in reliably?  So far, it seems that the step/dash speed has been toned down so that you can't just sidestep and run in while they're doing one combo.

Also, maybe I'm just missing something but it seems like they nerfed the fuck out of Xianghua and Cassandra.  Amy is pretty great, though.

[RedLion]

Is this game anything like Soulcalibur IV?

 Haha but seriously, I wish I had a PS3 or an XB360. This is the first game since those two systems have come out that I just HAVE to play.

Seriously? Not one game out for PS3/360 has looked better to you then SC4?

[Alex C]

I agree with Cartilage Head. Most high quality 360 titles revolve around shooting people in the face via a third or first person perspective. Even Bioshock Mass Effect happily aped shooter mechanics, so you're kind of SOL if running around creating a steady hail of gunfire isn't your cup of tea. The PS3 isn't even on my radar since it doesn't have any fuckin' games I want to play that are not available on another system. Oh, no, wait! Okay, I'd kinda like to play Ratchet and Clank. That's it.

[thepugs]

Question, how do you beat the "Kilik kids" with a short-range attacker (like Talim)?  I mean, yes, you can duck their long-range attacks but if they're constantly using them, how do you manage to close in reliably?  So far, it seems that the step/dash speed has been toned down so that you can't just sidestep and run in while they're doing one combo.

Also, maybe I'm just missing something but it seems like they nerfed the fuck out of Xianghua and Cassandra.  Amy is pretty great, though.

I want to say forward forward B is a good closer for Talim (whatever the dive is), and usage of back b+k and forward b+k are pretty handy as well.  The attacks also move Kilik a little closer so you can just block low for a while, and all of his long-range verticals are pretty slow.

I can't say anything for Xianghua, but Cass does seem a little weaker.

[Jackie Blue]

The PS3 isn't even on my radar since it doesn't have any fuckin' games I want to play that are not available on another system.

Siren: Blood Curse is fucking amazing, and I'm not even halfway through.  It gets exponentially better with every single episode.

I dunno, I just have always hated the Xbox as a system, aesthetically, functionally (the controller), game-wise, everything.  Paying to play online?  Fuck you, MS.  So I went with the PS3 and will probably get a Wii soon since it has so many fucking rad games.

[Ozymandias]

The 360 controller is pretty much the single most perfectly and wonderfully designed traditional controller in the history of video games. It's like an angel crapped into your hands and it molded perfectly into a thing to play Call of Duty with.

I will never really understand why people are unwilling to pay for a service, though. If a thing is good, it is not a bad thing to pay for it. Live is a good thing.

[Chesire Cat]

Its true, it was Xbox Live is a well constructed pieced of engineering.  It was Xbox Live that converted me from PC games which inherently have free online play oddly enough.  Its definitely worth it to not have to suffer through painful proprietary matching services built by people who only half know what they are doing, Live makes it easy.  And PS3s matching I cant imagine would be any better then Gamespy Arcade (uggh) was back in the day.  But thats also because I hate Sony because its a truly world class asshole on my elbow of a corporation I dont need.

[Jackie Blue]

You hate Sony as a corporation but not Microsoft?

At least Sony's products have a history of working.  I had a Sony boombox that worked perfectly fine for 10 years before I even had to clean the lens ONCE.  And I think we all know the history of Xbox and 360 hardware failure.

As far as online, Battle.net proved that you can have a massive online experience that is also free.  Though honestly, there are so few games I want to play online that it's a fairly moot point.  Rock Band and Soul Calibur 4 both have pretty quick, easy matching systems.  I fucking hate FPS games so...

As far as paying to play online, I wouldn't mind paying a nominal fee PER GAME I PLAY ONLINE, but for me to buy a 360 and pay the same price for Live as someone who plays COD4 16 hours a day when all I do is play Rock Band 30 minutes every couple of days is bollocks, enday fooking story.

[s42]

A friend picked up SC4 and we played it for a good 36 hours straight.
I like it a lot, but it doesn't really hold the same magic that SC2 held for me, part of this is just that some of the contexts for the moves are ridiculous now. (DO THIS FOUR BUTTON COMBO WHILE BACKFLIPPING WHICH IS ITSELF A 3 BUTTON COMBO TO DO A MOVE THAT YOU NEVER ACTUALLY MANAGED TO PULL OFF DELIBERATELY) It's good, but block doesn't really seem to be all that useful sometimes, especially if you've got some dick sitting there spamming Raphael's forward Y a bunch, but this might just be because I suck at fighting games. Really, once I learned to counter though, I was doing pretty well. It can be a pain in the ass to turn the momentum of a battle though.

[Jackie Blue]

Oh yeah, the "fatalities" are a neat idea.  I've only managed to do one but it was pretty awesome looking.

Seconding the ridiculously elaborate combos that no one will ever use, ever.

[Dimmukane]

As far as paying to play online, I wouldn't mind paying a nominal fee PER GAME I PLAY ONLINE, but for me to buy a 360 and pay the same price for Live as someone who plays COD4 16 hours a day when all I do is play Rock Band 30 minutes every couple of days is bollocks, enday fooking story.

What would you suggest they do, then?  Have a lower-priced option that cuts you off after you've used up your monthly hour limit?  Maybe I haven't thought this out, but it seems like it would be diffiicult to predict how much you're going to play and choose a service accordingly.  What if you get irrationally addicted to something?

Regardless, I just prefer the controller/interface/game library, and I don't mind paying the 50$ a year, because I do use it frequently.

[s42]

Oh man yeah, the fatalities are pretty mad awesome. We only ever got one happening, and I was the most unfortunate victim.
I think on the one hand the thing about the moves in this game is that they *seem* to be context based, and that there are a lot more contexts than in previous games, making the combat on the one hand more unpredictable but on the other hand making it retardedly difficult to make your character do any one thing.

I think Zerodrone is saying you'd put your credit card number in or something and it'd just charge you on a game by game basis, that is if I play one round of SC4 online that's all I get charged for, end of story, instead of getting ass balls raped on a monthly charge. The monthly charge is the reason I don't have Live, it's simply not justifiable with the amount of online play I do. Some people I know find it to work for them but those people get home from work or school or whatever and just play. Like that's it. They sit down and it's halo 3 or gears of war or Call of Duty, whatever. Not for me.

[Blue Kitty]

I've gone through all of the Fatalities, but then again training mode sets it up pretty well.  I have to say Yoda's is the most badass.

I can't say I like what they did to story mode (why the hell is it 4-5 stages long?) but everything else seems to be okay.  Haven't gone online with it though.

Another thing, why did they jam 5 characters into one slot?

[Jackie Blue]

I think the Bonus Characters are all in one slot because they don't have full movesets or something.  Like they're not "real" characters.  I don't think they can be used in ranked online matches, but I'm not sure about that.  I'll check when I'm not ridiculously tired and hungover.

[est]

Just a quick couple of things:  I am not sure I want to grab this game if online play is about the only new thing on the menu and they have further reduced the Story mode to just a bunch of fighting.  I think that my perfect "story mode" would be a bit like the Tekken Force mode but not shit.  Think Soul Calibur meets Golden Axe, but (I guess) shorter.  They could give certain reward weapons and armour to bosses and stuff like that.

[Jackie Blue]

Mortal Kombat's last few single player modes have had their problems but overall were pretty awesome, if only because they really were games in their own right.

[Storm Rider]

Wasn't Shaolin Monks essentially a spinoff that turned one of the single player modes into its own game? I never played it, but I heard it actually worked out pretty well.

[Jackie Blue]

I never played it either, but I believe it came out before the MK that had the single-player mode that was similar to it.

[Cartilage Head]

 That is mostly true. The Konquest mode for Armageddon was a simplified version of the fighting system from Shaolin Monks.

[Fletch]

I just bought SC4. (8 rmb ...)

[WNivek]

I think the Bonus Characters are all in one slot because they don't have full movesets or something.  Like they're not "real" characters.  I don't think they can be used in ranked online matches, but I'm not sure about that.  I'll check when I'm not ridiculously tired and hungover.

Unless I'm mistaken, they do have full move-sets... just ones that belong to "real" characters. (The chick with two katanas, for instance, is clearly using Cervantes' moves; even the gunshot in the taunt is still there, despite the lack of a firearm in the sword hilt.)

This kinda makes-up for the fact that you can't use their fighting styles for custom characters - if you want their moves, just use the style from the character whom the bonus guy is plagiarizing. Pity you can't get the nifty alternate weapons they use, though... (I wanna be able to dual-wield katanas, dang it!)

[Jackie Blue]

It would appear that the "custom characters" are all in one slot because they were designed by anime artists (apparently they are all from different anime/manga series, though damned if I've heard of any of them).

Algol Fear's ending is pretty cool.

And Scheherazade looks like Link.

[B.C.]

The 5 guest characters were indeed designed by Anime artists.

Ashlotte was designed by Oh!Great of Tenjou Tenge and Air Gear fame
Scheherazade was done by Yutaka Izubuchi who created RahXephon and done design work on many Gundam series
Shura was created by Hiroya Oku who does Gantz
Kamikirimusi is a Hirokazu Hisayuki design (My- HiME, My-Otome, Outlaw Star)
Angol Fear is the cousin of Angol Mois from Sgt. Frog, which is done by Mine Yoshizaki.
______________

Overall I really like this game, the balance has been reworked but a lot of the finesse has been forsaken in the name of incredibly flashy combos. I had an AI Zasalamel wall juggle me with a single combo for about 50% of my health.

A word to those who are going to start doing the Tower of Lost Souls.

Yun Seong is your friend.

There are certain stages in the upper levels (floors 45-46 I believe) where the enemies take absolutely insignificant amounts of damage. The only way to take them all out within the time limit is a Critical Finish. Yun Seong's ForwardY,Y combo+Soul Gauge Damage A+Soul Gauge Vamp on his character creates a stun hit that the AI almost always blocks. A couple of these and they are ripe for a Critical Finisher.

[Fletch]

Just my 2 yuan.

"I wanna dual wield katanas, dang it!"
me too. Not possible?

I thought the earlier games had ways to keep someone occupied while you knock their health off too? (pre-Zasalamel)
Pity some of those anime artists couldn't keep the characters in check with the setting. (Angol Fear? Gah.)
Does anyone else think the repetition of weapon styles is getting a bit much? I would have prefered they work on making sure the models don't clip instead of 2 or 3 copies of the same move list with different dangly bits.

Tower is missing some of the appeal I remember from the dreamcast missions. Maybe its the lack of map.

[Jackie Blue]

It's not the lack of map.  The Tower of Souls is bullshit and not fun at all past a certain point.  Also, there's no point in playing it because if you get 30 Honors (which is easy) you unlock every piece of equipment in the game, including the ToS stuff.

Seriously don't bother.

(Oh, and I bet another reason the custom chars are in one slot is so they can sell you DLC of more of them later.  I think it would be hilariously awesome to have Sailor Moon.  Hell, since there's a magic wand in Amy's weapon set I bet I could make one later tonight.)

[Fletch]

I play TOS on descend, just because it's the only mode that doesn't seem to end. (even if I only get down about 7 floors at the moment)

[B.C.]

I play TOS on descend, just because it's the only mode that doesn't seem to end. (even if I only get down about 7 floors at the moment)

Descending is locked in at 25 floors I believe.

Zerodrone is right, the Tower of Lost Souls get to a point where it's just not fair anymore.
Floors 57-59 are three straight fights of three people each where each singular person is more than capable of handing you your hindquarters and subsequently making you eat them.
Did I mention you only get 2 dudes and no health recovery outside of what you manage to put into the skill slots?

Yeah so it's 2 on 9.

I got the farthest by spamming throw over and over again, then Nightmare grapple broke me and promptly brought me from 115% health to 0% in a single combo.

[KvP]

Yeah, I noticed that the AI isn't all that strong against throws. At all. Remember how in Mortal Kombat you could jump kick Gorro and he was completely helpless, allowing you to kick and kick and kick until he was dead? It's like that. I got through 17 floors in descent just using throws. The real bitch of it is the 20th level of the tower, which has an enemy with fully auto grapple break and every hit you land on her while she's blocking is an impact (causing you damage). I only beat that by chance using Astaroth to knock her out of bounds.

[Jackie Blue]

Apparently, if you REALLY want to put yourself through the Tower, there is a very easy Astaroth build that can plow through the whole thing using only 2 or 3 moves.  Someone posted it on SA, I'll try and find it and post it here.

[carrotosaurus]

Yeah, the tower ascending has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever done.

However, the descending version is fun and replaces arcade mode and story mode for me completely because those two are way too short.

[B.C.]

Apparently, if you REALLY want to put yourself through the Tower, there is a very easy Astaroth build that can plow through the whole thing using only 2 or 3 moves.  Someone posted it on SA, I'll try and find it and post it here.

That's the Astaroth build where you just abuse throws, 1[A],A and 1[A],B (where [] means hold the button).
It's basically a straight offensive spammer build, and you just put HP Burst and HP Drain A  on your character. A lot of those builds require the DLC though.

[tyciol]

One problem about getting into the Soul series is you don't know what systes to buy since you'll never get the whole picture...

I mean, can you even do Vader vs Yoda? Nope.

[Fletch]

You *will* be able to, as soon as they make them downloadable for a small cost. I've heard people decrying this ... sure, it's worse than just putting it in the game, but better than having to buy a second console & game.
I hate "micropayments" ... especially now that I'm in China and 1) the games in the shops are *all* pirated, 2) getting microsoft points or whatever is like buying hen's teeth. grr.