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[Alex C]

I guess that just like everything else the difficulty was overstated because most guilds are full of people who suck.  My EQ guild found this out when we'd continually do things that people said required X people with say, 2/3 of X people.  It was a lot of fun.

Yep. And while I hate to use such ugly slang myself, WoW has a lot of raid encounters filled with what many people like to term "retard checks," situations in which multiple people or even the entire raid can suffer immense damage due to the inability of a single member to perform an extremely simple task. Onyxia has a few of them: Don't stand too close to anyone else in Phase 2 (she spits fireballs at people randomly and they can damage more than one person) and don't stand behind her in Phase 1 or 3 (she hits you with her tail, which can send you flying into a clutch of whelp-spawning eggs ala Leeroy Jenkins; this is pretty much always a wipe) and don't stand on the cracks in Phase 3, because they shoot lava. Everything else is simply a matter of watching your aggro.

[Alex C]

Oh, god, Hakkar.


My guild was the number 3 guild on my server in terms of progression, so our members were poached by the top guild fairly regularly (I was actually approached once or twice despite being a dps class). This led to us running ZG for fun, shoulder enchants and to test new recruits despite the fact that many of us were overgeared for ZG when it came out. The painful bit is when we'd try out a potential off-tank recruit and the dumb bastard would forget to burn his Intimidating Shout, leading to Hakkar Mind Controlling him and proceeding to fear a quarter of the damned raid, leading to a lack of heals and problems wrangling the Sons of Hakkar to get the damned poison cloud up etc, etc. Considering how much we warned people that burning Intimidating Shout was a non-negotiable requirement, I damn near ground my teeth down to the gums every time someone forgot.

[PizzaSHARK]

I was a raid leader when we were tearing through Zul'Gurub the first couple of months after it hit. My biggest obstacle was that we were not a raiding guild, but rather a social guild with a little raiding on the side, so the core criteria for us raiding at all was that everyone was to be allowed access to the raids as long as they signed up in time, we would never discriminate on gear or skill. I wanted to kick people out of the raid so badly when we were wiping four or five times on Hakkar because one or two doorknobs refused to understand the basic idea of the blood drain event he does, even after explaining to them time and time again what they are supposed to do (for those of you who haven't done this boss, it literally means running into a cloud of gas).

Sounds familiar.

Being in an FnF guild (that actually is able to put together a couple of fiercely competent 10-man raid groups), it just reinforces my belief in that you should never do business (raiding) with friends.

[Covetous]

But that's the only fun part with wow! But then again me and my friends were on the same level. Most of them had tried out hard core guilds. So we could put together a good raid and make progress quite well and still have a good time, trashtalking eachother and wipeing just for the fun of it (miss direct is a bad thing. <_<)

[PizzaSHARK]

Oh, I wipe raids routinely just because I can.  Perk of being a pally, I guess.  Just DI the main tank and watch the boss run around and wafflestomp the raid.  You, of course, are already dead, and no repair costs, either.

I rarely raid, and when I do, I usually do it out of the guild; the couple of competent in-guild groups very rarely need me (and I won't make them force someone else to sit out since I only raid when the mood strikes me, not consistently), and the remainder are... a bit lacking in the gameplay department, though they're all great people to shoot the shit with.

I do plenty of PvP with the guild, though.  Even the people that suck at the game are useful in battlegrounds as cannon fodder if nothing else

[Chesire Cat]

But that's the only fun part with wow! But then again me and my friends were on the same level. Most of them had tried out hard core guilds. So we could put together a good raid and make progress quite well and still have a good time, trashtalking eachother and wipeing just for the fun of it (missdirect is a bad thing. <_<)

Just a hint, since other people will be cockbags about it, you shouldn't quote a post right above yours, and unless strictly necessary when you quote a post with a quote in it, delete the older quote.  People reading will be able to follow the trail of conversation and it doesnt muddy up the flow.  Also if quoting pics, delete the pic and maybe use a txt reference to mention it. 

Otherwise you will get people bitching at you and it will take forever to reverse their opinions that you aren't a retard noob.  And nobody wants that.

[Covetous]

That is true and was simply me being sloppy. I'm sorry. (I'm a mod on other forums and get anoyed with just the same things usually.)

[Alex C]

Yeah, it's no big deal or anything. It's just always a bit of a worry, particularly with the video game sub threads; people from places like the PA forums are likely used to a much faster paced board than this one. As long as quote tunnels are avoided, it's all good.

[clockworkjames]

Ony could be soloed by Rogues at 70, I believe.  Specific gear combinations could get you to greater than 100% physical avoidance, and I'd assume Cloak of Shadows handled Deep Breath.

You can no longer get 100% phys dodge methinks.

2 days 3 hours till onyxia resets :/

[Lines]

If I want to just cast spells on everything, I'll cut out the bullshit and roll Mage or Warlock. I picked Druid for the self sufficiency. Boomkims aren't nearly as self sufficient as Ferals.

I know this was on the last page, but if I die doing PvE, then I am doing something majorly wrong, even if I'm taking on elites by myself. It takes me about the same amount of time to trap and nuke something to death as it did when I was feral to pounce and scratch. (Bear form always seemed/seems increddibly slow to me, so I only used it for tanking.) Also, you're an almost mage in plate armor. And someone mentioned not getting as much aggro due to all the DoTs, which is true, but whoever said that you'll be towards the bottom is wrong. You should be towards the middle or up. If you're not, your gear is crap or you're not using your cooldowns enough. (I'm usually #2 in 5 mans and 4-6 in 10 mans, depending on what other DPSers there are.) You'll probably never out do a rogue or a mage, but you can be up there and you won't be the first one to die either.

But it's true, Feral is the fastest and easiest way to level, but it's not as hard to be Balance as it used to be, since it's easier to find gear for it now.

[masquerade]

I know this was on the last page, but if I die doing PvE, then I am doing something majorly wrong, even if I'm taking on elites by myself. It takes me about the same amount of time to trap and nuke something to death as it did when I was feral to pounce and scratch. (Bear form always seemed/seems increddibly slow to me, so I only used it for tanking.) Also, you're an almost mage in plate armor. And someone mentioned not getting as much aggro due to all the DoTs, which is true, but whoever said that you'll be towards the bottom is wrong. You should be towards the middle or up. If you're not, your gear is crap or you're not using your cooldowns enough. (I'm usually #2 in 5 mans and 4-6 in 10 mans, depending on what other DPSers there are.) You'll probably never out do a rogue or a mage, but you can be up there and you won't be the first one to die either.

But it's true, Feral is the fastest and easiest way to level, but it's not as hard to be Balance as it used to be, since it's easier to find gear for it now.

<3 <3

[est]

You get plate as a druid?  What?

[Alex C]

Moonkin get the same 300%+ armor bonus Dire bears get, so both are roughly equivalent to plate and can go much, much higher (Warriors get by OK and tank as well as ferals thanks to the magic of Parry & Shield Block, not higher armor). Ferals typically have the highest armor in the game, but that's mostly just due to itemization and the Thick Hide talent. Since blizzard has decided to stop putting in so many items with boosted armor, Feral and Moonkin forms should be closer together in armor than ever before. Really, the big reasons ferals are usually given the edge in self-sufficiency is due to Improved Leader of the Pack and the fact that they don't need to burn mana or halt their mana regeneration to DPS; the only times a feral really needs mana is in emergencies. Moonkins, on the other hand, are still tethered to their mana pool.  At 60+ it's not a big issue since a properly geared moonkin will have much, much better casting stats and can do more with less anyway, but it can be a problem when you're still just leveling thanks the lack of balance gear in pre-BC content. On the upside, I'd much rather bet on a moonkin than a feral druid when it comes to stopping dps and dropping emergency heals.

I realize I keep throwing up walls of text, but I can't help it. I just love warcraft.

[masquerade]

And you obviously love moonkin, which is why I have decided that I love you. There, I said it.

Anyway, you're right about the emergency heals. I can shift to humanoid to cast a quick Regrowth or Rejuvenation and be back to Wrathing pretty damn quickly. It's why I keep heal spells up on the action bar above my regular spells (I don't use mods) so that I have quick access to them.

[clockworkjames]

My dwarf can honestly say his best friend is a tree.

Me and My tree

We do everything together apart from levelling.

And whoever said boomkins are less DPS than rogues and mages, mages and locks maybe but as a tank in def stance 1h and shield 17k armour 15khp I out DPS'ed DK's, Rogues, Hunters all higher levels than me in much better purplz gear. I am not saying I am awesome, just rogues and hunters in my experience suck for DPS. I was not trying to DPS, I was keeping aggro and making sure SS/TC/SW were hitting as much and as often as possible.

[Covetous]

Crapy rogue I would say. Rogues own the long fights sins they never go oom. Mages own the short fights due to high burst damge. But apperently boomkin can do silly much damage in long fights with 3.0.


Edit: corrected spelling sins I don't want to start a fight over nothing.

[clockworkjames]

Crapy rouge I would say. Rogues own the long fights sins they never go oom. Mages own the short fights due to high burst damge. But apperently boomkin can do silly much damage in long fights with 3.0.

Yes boomkins do hueg dmg in long fights since 3.0.X

(lol rouge)

[masquerade]

Btw, rogue is not a misstake.

Perhaps not, but you originally spelled it "rouge." Learn to read and spell, then defend yourself.

[0bsessions]

So is hostility your default reaction when you don't get a joke?

[Alex C]

I decided to main a rogue again on the 100% new characters server, Grizzly Hills. It's tough sledding, relatively speaking. The sheer lack of utility and self-healing stings, since any combination of tanking ability and healing is pretty OP vs. brain dead mobs. I mean, really, even just a hunter's ability to heal their pet for a classic tank 'n' spank makes elites much easier than with my rogue. Sometimes I wish pvp didn't exist so rogues could get some utility buffs such as ways to remove those annoying mob diseases that inflict dots which last upward of a minute or two. Unfortunately, rogues are so good at what they do that it's hard to give them even mild new toys & luxuries without making them stupidly good at one on one pvp. I'm sure I'll feel better once I have the good old Cloak o' Skill, but until then I have a feeling I'll be missing the luxuries I'm accustomed to when playing a druid.

[clockworkjames]

I made a drood! Tauren on boulderfist.

(lol, misstake)

[masquerade]

Shoulda made a n'elf on Azuremyst or Shandris. XD

[Alex C]

Making a druid is never a mistake. They just kind of suck for 10 levels, that's all. They're essentially a weak base class that makes up for it by having ridiculously powerful talents.

[Yakob]

My Rogue finally hit 70! I'd obviously be much more happy if this was a year or even a couple months ago, but oh well.
(Again, change the %F3 in my name to ó (alt-162))

I'm loving Northrend to pieces so far, but this may or may not be due to me having a huge boner for Norse mythology (Nótt is actually the name of the Norse personification of night). The second I stepped off the zeppelin into Warsong Hold I was so unbelievably giddy.

Re: Cloak of Skill
I've had it for a couple levels now, but I don't find myself using it very often. This is mostly because I often forget that I even have it. I'm so accustomed to the way I play, I find it hard to fit a new ability into the mix. I came across the same problem when Disarm was introduced in the pre-Wrath patch.

[0bsessions]

I do not understand that assessment at all, Alex.

Druid was a cake walk for one through ten for me. It takes less than a few hours to get to ten and while it was a pain relying primarily on spellcasting for those ten without my bear form, but it really wasn't all that painful. Really, the first ten levels are the most painful on pretty much any class in any given MMO.

[Alex C]

It's all relative; wow is not a hard game, particularly by the standards of earlier MMOs. Still, I created a new druid to double check things since I figured that times have changed since I started out my first druid, particularly since they eliminated downranking and changed spell costs from set amounts to base mana costs across the board. Turned out I was right. You see, back in the day when I started my druid, rank 1 Wrath did about half the damage of a Fireball for two thirds of the mana cost, which is kind of a problem since druids start out with the smallest mana pool of any caster and you were likely to run dry rather quickly if you chain nuked things. In short, druids were pure casters and they were kind of bad at it. Now rank 1 Wrath does more damage than I remember and it apparently costs six fucking mana now.


Six!


Holy crap. I swear to god if any new druid says that the first 10 levels are annoying I will stab them in the eye with my pen.


[EDIT]
The above statement should not be taken as a shot at newbies. I love newbies and think the petulant whining by veteran players who are bitchy just because they once had to wait 'till 40 to buy their mounts is just so much noise. Overall, I think the change is really clever, particularly since it looks like druid spells are actually rather expensive after enough levels, but by then people have the talents to make up for that. Crap like this is why I think Blizzard is smarter than many whiners give them credit for.

[0bsessions]

To be entirely fair, as a newbie, I will echo the sentiment that anyone who thinks the first ten levels of Druid are hard should probably be stabbed in the eyes. It's probably only gotten even easier since the Echoes of Doom patch, which was a month or two after I joined.

I started up back in early to mid August and it was still fucking cake to blow through the first thirty or so levels. Now that the level cap is up even further, it's probably been even further streamlined.

[Alex C]

Yeah, hard isn't really the right word for solo WoW play. The game is not Final Fantasy online; you don't ever need buffs and a little luck to solo a same level bunny rabbit (although, I would recommend finding a group in any case). Like I said, I applaud the changes that were apparently made; the game wasn't hard as a druid before, but it was a bit annoying thanks to the craptacular mana pool druids (particularly taurens) started with. Having to drink or melee every couple of mobs as an essentially pure caster gets kind of annoying and really shouldn't be all that necessary at low level play.

[clockworkjames]

ctrl+alt+o=ó 

And I am levelling with my belf/undead buddies so... I might get some sweet bloos but I will need to hearth to TB to get my new forms and stuff :/

Is not all bad, I got friends accounts linked so we can summon each other, YEAH!

As for wrath rank 1 it started as 6, then 9, now 12.

I don't geddit.

[0bsessions]

Man, you are going to be so fucking devastated when your link ends. I remember the first time I PMed my brother telling him to summon me and remembered he can't anymore. You kind of start to take it for granted after three whole months.

[Alex C]

ctrl+alt+o=ó 

And I am levelling with my belf/undead buddies so... I might get some sweet bloos but I will need to hearth to TB to get my new forms and stuff :/

Is not all bad, I got friends accounts linked so we can summon each other, YEAH!

As for wrath rank 1 it started as 6, then 9, now 12.

I don't geddit.

It's weird, but all mana costs are now calculated as a percentage of your base mana total. Each class has a base amount of mana per level, and spells cost a certain percentage of that number. You can see how much your base mana increases with each level when it says how many hps and mana you've gained- note how the amount is inconsistent with any intelligence gained-- it's like that for a reason I'll explain shortly. So if your base mana is a 100, a 10% mana cost spell will cost 10 mana, etc. Here's the important part- that base mana total does not include your attributes, so intelligence gear is still very useful. It's really quite a nifty trick; as it stands now, a low level mage and a low level druid can both cast enough nukes to get by just fine, but since druids gain base mana at a rate that outpaces their natural intelligence growth, they'll soon find their mana pool pretty inadequate if they don't start poking around for intelligence gear. Meanwhile the mage will begin to more fully enjoy the benefits of their high natural intelligence score. Hell, druids actually end up with a higher base mana score than mages in the long run-- but the way things work, that actually hurts more than it helps! Basically, it's all a nifty way of annihilating downranking AND letting blizzard each class's mana cost progression in one fell swoop. Now that I have really stopped to look at it, I must say that it's really quite clever.

[cheesepie]

Every class is pretty much equivalent for the first 10 levels. It shouldn't take you longer than 2-4 hours to get to lvl 10 unless you're just starting out or take pride in killing critters such as cats and rabbits =P

[Alex C]

Just because something is possible with all classes doesn't mean some don't perform a bit better than others at it. I mean, really, some classes just have more of their top mob grinding skills at low levels than others do. Warlocks for example have Immolate, Life Tap, Corruption, Summon Imp, Shadow Bolt, and Curse of Agony by level 8 and by level 14 they add in Drain Life, which turns grinding down time into a virtual non-issue for them. Meanwhile Hunters have no pet prior to ten and used to have that damned dead zone eating up an extra autoshot. None of the classes are bad enough at low levels to make you think "Wow, this class sucks," before giving up, but you could easily be forgiven for thinking "Man, class X just doesn't seem to have a lot going for it compared to class Y." Granted, this is less true now than ever before thanks to all of the tweaks Blizzard has made since release, but I think it's a bit myopic to act like there isn't some meaningful differences sprinkled around at various points.



[Edit]

Sometimes people in WoW scare me. I have a few bank alts specialized in various types of items for the sake of organization. One of which is a female human level 10 warrior named Bankette. For whatever reason, she gets more guild invites than the rest of my characters combined. They always seem vaguely surprised when I decline saying it's just a bank alt.

[0bsessions]

I'm about to go to bed, but I thought I'd share what I have done with my evening:

See, my brother came by and he had his laptop. We got the idea in our head to try something with his laptop and my projector:



OH MY FUCKING GOD, IT IS A GIANT BEAR!

[Jace]

Woo, resubscribed and installing right now.

I guess I'm gonna reroll on the aussie servers so I can play with people since I'm up all night which is their afternoons.

[PizzaSHARK]

ctrl+alt+o=ó 

And I am levelling with my belf/undead buddies so... I might get some sweet bloos but I will need to hearth to TB to get my new forms and stuff :/

Is not all bad, I got friends accounts linked so we can summon each other, YEAH!

As for wrath rank 1 it started as 6, then 9, now 12.

I don't geddit.

It's weird, but all mana costs are now calculated as a percentage of your base mana total. Each class has a base amount of mana per level, and spells cost a certain percentage of that number. You can see how much your base mana increases with each level when it says how many hps and mana you've gained- note how the amount is inconsistent with any intelligence gained-- it's like that for a reason I'll explain shortly. So if your base mana is a 100, a 10% mana cost spell will cost 10 mana, etc. Here's the important part- that base mana total does not include your attributes, so intelligence gear is still very useful. It's really quite a nifty trick; as it stands now, a low level mage and a low level druid can both cast enough nukes to get by just fine, but since druids gain base mana at a rate that outpaces their natural intelligence growth, they'll soon find their mana pool pretty inadequate if they don't start poking around for intelligence gear. Meanwhile the mage will begin to more fully enjoy the benefits of their high natural intelligence score. Hell, druids actually end up with a higher base mana score than mages in the long run-- but the way things work, that actually hurts more than it helps! Basically, it's all a nifty way of annihilating downranking AND letting blizzard each class's mana cost progression in one fell swoop. Now that I have really stopped to look at it, I must say that it's really quite clever.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the stats you gain on level up don't affect your scores.  They didn't use to, anyway.  Did they change it with WotLK?

[clockworkjames]

3.0.1 changed everything...

[Gemmwah]

I'm tempted to change my Shaman's spec to Resto, because all I seem to be doing is healing. Even with the upcoming changes to the elemental spec, I still don't think I will have enough survivability or do enough damage. I seem to do alright in dungeons and raids, but in PvP I am the most useless thing ever, it sucks because I love playing Shaman.

[clockworkjames]

The way I see it, if you can tank you should, if you can heal you should. Pure DPS classes are common enough so if you are a warrior people assume you are a tank, but if you roll a tank or healer you will almost always be needed in a group.

Needless to say my mains are a prot warrior and restro drood.

[Gemmwah]

Yeah but healing is boring. I rolled a Shaman because I liked the idea of being a support class, dps and off-healing, but all I seem to be doing is main healing and it bores me. And when things go sour, it's always my fault. And I can't be bothered to level another toon all the way up, the first 30 levels are deathly boring.

[supersheep]

So this is me.

Been playing maybe a month or so, entirely solo with the odd run-through from the high-level friend who dragged me into this (also why I'm playing on US servers, lag's not so bad). My theorycraft is not so good, cos I'm lazy, but it's not like I'm going to be playing it other than for kicks.
I've also spent the past day or so farming eggs in Eversong, as they seem to be rather popular at the minute.

[clockworkjames]

Wandeag

We don't quest, we just run instances with triple XP linked accounts so we got good gear and level fast, not uncommon for 2 dings each per run.

[Alex C]

I know you just said you're not into theorycrafting much, but if you're going to use Sinister Strike as your primary attack, I'd advise against using daggers, although the one you have now is so much better than quest reward replacements that it's not a big deal for now (heck, it's better than my sword). To make a long story short, a sword/mace will do more damage on a Sinister Strike than a dagger will even if the DPS and weapon speeds are otherwise identical. It's due to the way attack power is calculated and while it sounds counterintuitive, it beats the hell out of the old way of calculating things. On the bright side, weapon speed doesn't matter quite as much as it used to since the buffs to poisons means that faster weapons are a lot more competitive than they used to be; faster weapons mean more poison procs, and good lord, do poisons kick ass now. Still, I'd suggest selecting weapons based on DPS, weapon type, stats and then speed while leveling.



Anyway, here's the rogue I recently rolled on the Grizzly Hills server (which is actually a "fresh" server; it's roughly a month old now and doesn't allowe transfers.) Intruder

[clockworkjames]

Mace rogues went from stunlock beasts to fucking dire.
Swords for potential instagibbage with sword specialisation.

[Alex C]

I skipped weapon specializations because I'm almost exclusively limiting myself to self-crafted items and quest rewards while reinvesting all my cash into AH speculation. I love sword spec as much as the next guy, but it wouldn't have done me much good considering I've spent as much time with a mace 'n' dagger combo as I have with a sword. My current build will net me 11% more avoidance over a raw DPS build, which is pretty damn nice for solo work; it's not like I'm hurting for damage thanks to poisons and Nightscape armor anyway. Once I hit 80 I'll likely change my ways, but for now, I'm happy with my almost shockingly durable rogue.

[Covetous]

Myself I'm leveling my (second) druid on a RPG server. Sadly theres hardly anyone actually doing any RPG. Leveling as feral due to how silly easy it is. You can handle allmost every situation with a good pounce, some bleed effects and than just going in to bear. But I can admin that after (only) having 3 70s I'm a bit bored with the bit between lvl 20 and 60. Don't think that it's going to be that much more fun in outlands either. But when I become 60 or so I think I will respec to resto. I have a shadow priest, boomkin and a tankadin (way fun to play). So would be fun to test the last part of the game as well. Kharni

I think you should stick with elemental if you like it, Gemmwah. Personally I love having an elemental shammy with me. They have a very unic ability to addept after the situation and can boost any party in various ways. They are also really scary in PvP. Think you will have it easier when you hit 80 sins a lot of people respec to healing when they get max level. That's my experience anyway.

[jmrz]

Yeah, my boyfriend's alt (we are leveling alts together before our account link runs out) is an ele shammy and he loves it. He's doing a heap of damage and has quiet a good survivability rate, even better now that he can wear mail armor.

[PizzaSHARK]

Yeah but healing is boring. I rolled a Shaman because I liked the idea of being a support class, dps and off-healing, but all I seem to be doing is main healing and it bores me. And when things go sour, it's always my fault. And I can't be bothered to level another toon all the way up, the first 30 levels are deathly boring.

You won't be doing much of anything but the role you're specced for in coordinated instance/raid groups.  If you're Resto, you'll be healing.  If you're Ele or Enh, you'll be killing.  You might toss the occasional heal (or nuke), but every time you do, that means your overall DPS (or HPS) just took a hit.  Unless the group's gonna wipe, it's better to just keep killing.

[clockworkjames]

I am gonna dump links to my stuff now. Boulderfist, Wandeag-restro drood, Díck-Affliction Lock, Hellscream,
Melville-Prot Warrior, clóckwórk-Frost mage, Toebag-Blood/unholy DK, Dunemaul, omgwtfbbq-BM Huntard, Jamés-Halfassed Twink rogue

I have more but those are really the only ones that matter, another DK or rogue or pally here and there is all.

[Yakob]

"Set Sail for Fail" is a superb guild name.