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[clockworkjames]

440BS and I can make like, 11 cool things (lv 80 Purplz) and that is it. Of them I will use 4 so unless someone wants me to make them something my skill will be no higher than 444 until new recipies start dropping (I hope this happens)... but then I will just replace it with raid drop purplz and the stuff for tokens

Also, I just looked for tanking weps, there are 3 for endgame...
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37401 http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39344 http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40402
Each one is pretty damn awesome but what should I use until I can do (HC) naxx? Keep using this piece of crap http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44734 ?

[PizzaSHARK]

450 in a production profession is an accomplishment in and of itself, considering the sheer amount of materials it usually takes to get those last five or ten points.

I dunno about tanking weapons, but I know pretty much any of the Titansteel pieces are worth making, though it seems Brilliant Titansteel has the odd bit about having no stats...

[clockworkjames]

Sorry for anyone not into melee, but tanking weps have def/dodge/block/stam/str and a speed of 1.50 or 1.60 so you hit faster to get better rage.

It pains me to see tanks with a 2.50 1h because yeah you will rarely be hitting dry melee swings and rage builds fast after the initial charge/sunder of battle but on bosses a fast weapon makes the difference of downing an enrage effect boss and wiping on it.

Tanks should NOT be top of DPS or anywhere near it. Speccing that way cuts your survivability and aggro control.

Impale, Improved rend and Incite are the most common mistakes made by tanks who want the e-peen of out damaging a rogue. Heck I am putting 1 point in tac mastery so I can berserk/intercept/hamstring in pvp, or lose less rage if I blam off my def retaliation macro. Improved bloodrage makes people want to misuse it, it should rarely be used in battle and never to start a fight, it is made to keep your rage up and healthy while squishies take a quick MB or you are marking mobs before the next pull. It's a rage cache.

I am happy to be lower than everyone as far as DPS goes, DPS is not my job - just like the healer should not start nuking.

[PizzaSHARK]

Deep Wounds is better, point for point, than Cruelty for teeps.  It also greatly balances out fast-versus-slow in terms of weapon selection.  Obviously, you need Impale to get it.

Bloodrage is still a solid method of starting a fight, especially if you need a lot of threat immediately.  It's on a 60 second cooldown and should be used just like Divine Plea - early, and often.

[clockworkjames]

Deep wounds IS superb, I used it until 73 and loved it because bleed on crit for blood frenzy without having to dick about with rend, I hate rend.

But for Tanking the only thing I use out of prot for dmg is Armoured to the teeth because with a shield and tank defence of 24k-25k+ you get stupid (Over 400) extra AP for 3 talent points. I would rather have that over 3% crit or a bleed effect.

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/warrior/talents.html?tal=050231010000000000000000000000300000000000000000000000000053051225203012521330113321 Is mine, people will hate parts of it and I know that. No build is perfect for everyone but this one fits me, I don't do mega dmg but I tank really quite well (most of the time).

I sound like more of a nazi tank than a panzer :/

Also new toy http://www.wowhead.com/?item=36984

[0bsessions]

Correction: Anyone gets motorcycles.  Engineers are the only ones that can make them, but they do not require Engineering to use.  Complete bullshit, if you ask me, because no one's gonna pay 15,000 gold for a mount - and that's about how much they cost to make (around 12,000-14,000.)

That said, being an Engineer is still incredibly fun, just not particularly lucrative.  Rifles cost a lot of materials to make; it's cheaper to simply buy the enchanting materials off the AH.

Eh, I don't think that's a bad price at all for the level people are going to be using those at. The side car can be useful for questing, particularly with someone who's having to divide their attention (There's few bigger pains in the ass than when I set myself to follow on my brother so I can run and grab something to eat only to find he wandered too close to a wall and lost me) and the money's not all that steep. I'm level 72 right now and I'm pulling, on average, about 100-150 gold in any given hour through nothing more than quest rewards and vendoring shit items I find. I'd be pulling even more if I were just AHing my leather instead of using it to grind my leatherworking (And LW items sell surprisingly poorly at AH on my server). I figure a more dedicated player with more experience than myself could probably pull the 15,000 for a bike inside of a week of routine play.

[Alex C]

Man, don't hate on Rend. Seriously, I'll fight you. It's very rage efficient and the way they tweaked how it scales with weapon damage means it's one of the few early warrior abilities that's worth a damn.

[Josefbugman]

As a new guy trying to introduce myself I have a little read of this and can't help thinking "good lord you guys know far more about WoW than I do and I have been playing for 4 years"!

As an attempt to save myself, a brief description of my character. "Josefbugman" (I am not really imaginative when it comes to names) is my level 80 Dwarven hunter, he's mainly BM at the momet but I am thinking of making him markshmanship as I only chose BM to be able to join raids. I enjoy leveling and doing my daily quests, my main goal for this expansion is to try and get to fight Arthas, or at least to help out in the war effort against him (don't say you can't forsee the changing of icecrown into a HUGE preperation/culling the undead camp ala the Isle of Quel'danas)

I am very very uninterested in maximizing my DPS, I play the game to relax but I have the limit of not simply pushing a single macro over and over again. I enjoy doing raiding and am more than willing to help out people leveling. I'm sorry to admit this but I rather enjoy the whole "lore" aspect surrounding Warcraft as I have taken part in it since WCII came out.

Also, I agree, Dalaran is hellish I cannot actually log in because my computer lags out, it has taken me 30 mins to walk from one side of it to the other.

Thanks for your time .

[Alex C]

If you're just interested in a PvE change of pace, I'd suggest Survival over MM. You'd do less damage than a BM spec, but you'd bring replenishment to the table and wouldn't have to just keep spamming Steady Shot for the rest of your life thanks to Explosive Shot, Lock 'n' Load and maybe even a pinch of trap dancing on relatively stationary mobs like Patchwerk. MM is a neat tree and all, but for raiding the rotation isn't really all that much different from Beast Mastery.

[Josefbugman]

Dragonmaw EU.

And thanks for the info I may change to survival, sounds a bit more fun than the ones I am used to

[clockworkjames]

I thought marksmanship was where it was at for raiding?
Also, ding motherfuckers - Before the end of the year just like I planned.

[Alex C]

For raiding the trees seem pretty even atm. MM will probably pull ahead a bit over BM during the course of an entire raid if they take Barrage for trash pulls, but honestly, I'm not really a fan of taking Barrage for progression content. You'll end up doing more damage over the course of the evening, but when the rough stuff like bosses roll around you'll end up spending more time in AotV since points spent on Barrage are points that would have otherwise been spent in Efficiency. It's nice to scale the heights of the damage meter and all, but at the end of the day, Hunters are there for their reliable single target damage vs. bosses more than for their AOE abilities; any truly vital AOE work is more likely to be assigned to the locks and mages, after all, since they can be really good at it without even really bothering to spec towards it.

Anyway, the big reason I said Survival but not MM isn't due to DPS, which Josef said wasn't the prime consideration anyway. The big thing is that MM just doesn't operate much differently than BM in a raid enviroment. None of the procs are really very reactive (ie, you don't really have to change your rotation at all to take advantage of anything) and Chimera shot doesn't really change your rotation much; it mostly edges out Serpent Sting and does a nice wad of damage. Lock 'n' Load+Explosive Shot is a more demonstrable change to your rotation since LnL can let you spam a couple ES's in a row; I know that doesn't sound like much, but it does keep things a bit more interesting (I know from experience; prior to Combat Potency and Glyph of Sinister Strike, Rogues were basically a set-in-stone optimal rotation class too).

Anyway, I'm a fan of Replenishment, which can easily help make up for the mild loss of DPS you get from going Survival, plus Wyvern sting is a fun tool to have and is basically mandatory since it's needed to take Noxious Stings. Even if you just do 5 mans most of the time, Wyvern Sting can be pretty handy if you're called up on to kite something due to a sudden lack of crowd control.

[mishy]

ding! 80 boomkin, yeaaaarghh!
now to get that titansteel guardian made for me...

[clockworkjames]

I will make your mace for you... BUT FIRST! Gather round WoWpeople for I have a story to tell!

Lake Wintersgrasp 1600 hours server time 31 Dec 2007

We were assaulting lake wintersgrasp well when I entered late and with 5 minutes on the clock and 4 HK's no deaths I was having fun smashing tanks open and beating the squishies driving ("Tank" killing a tank, hehe) so the clock drops to 2 mins and the horde are still made of suck so they all fail and we blam down the last wall and run to the big orb thingy then something happens and we win. There are people sticking around, I realise it is for the raid so I pipe up that I am a tank and will happily get beaten on in a group situation, so a 25 man raid group inv's me and my friend laughs and says "Good luck " in game. My def is still only like, 407 so I am crittable and say this to raid leader, "NP" he says, "you can OT" when I look at MT a Nelf warrior with a nice epic in each hand, 22khp unbuffed (same as me) and I ask my friend who laughed at me if he thought I could do it over Vent, he says "not a chance, the dude hits for like 4k you will get owned" but I am willing to try so I stick with it. About 15 minutes past 4 server time we fight out way through trash to the last dude, 9.9 million HP and made of massive rocks. Shit. So for those not familiar with 25man HC Wintersgrasp, Archavon the Stone Watcher is the last dude, a 5 minute to enrage DPS fight, my group was MT, OT, Restro shammy, Holy priest and some other warrior for if both me and OT mess up (He kicks away whoever has aggro at that point and the OT needs to come in and tank till MT gets back, simple) the rest of the groups were made up of healers and DPS.

First attempt everything goes fine but at 18% he enrages and we wipe. Okay, not enough DPS but everyone else did fine, was all good and do-able. When I rez I go to run back but my game shit's itself, drops to 4FPS and the ground dissapears, I quickly type that I have to relog, apologise and logout after being told that it was fine to do so. So i close the client, start it up again and log in... Or rather I try to log in but get the message "You have used all your prepaid time for this account" so I panic, open my browser and log on to WoW account management, hurridly enter CC details and notice that my account expired 16:25 paris/server time, the payment is good and I log back in 16:31 and explain what happened to be met with 25 LOL's and a PWND before apologising and getting on with it. We get him down to 8% this time, but then he enrages and MT dies instantly, Taunt is on CD so mocking blow to take aggro, about 5 seconds later everyone is dead. Futile. Raid leader gets pissy, prints DPS and kicks the bottom 3 (Less than 1500DPS) and we get in 1 lock, 1 fury warrior and one other DPS that I cannot remember. I take a look at the lock, full purplz good enough for me, then the warrior with sick bloos and purplz, titansteel destroyer and a 2h bloo rep sword, quick look at his talent build and I am in awe of this dude, awesome enchs on really quite good raiding gear, talents show NO solo survivability at all, totally group dependant and will crit like a beast. I guess an easy 7kdps or some shit so whatever, Archavon the Stone Watcher is going down. Groups get messed about a bit, fight starts. All goes well, 1 minute in we have him at 60%, pulling out all the stops, 2 minutes we have him at 18% being told to hurry up I am thinking no way do we need to rush, this is DONE and we down him before the 3 minute mark. 2 minutes to spare just like the battle for Wintersgrasp...


Valorous Plagueheart Leggings
Deadly Gladiator's Felweave Handguards
Deadly Gladiator's Felweave Trousers
Deadly Gladiator's Silk Raiment


Group only had the 1 lock, the dude that joined before the final attempt.

Brix were shat.

[PizzaSHARK]

That lucky son of a bitch...

You get huge, massive bonus points for being a dwarf, because dwarves rule.  Whoever took one of the hideous Northrend wolves for a pet needs to be dragged out and strangled with the hide from his uglyass pet.  He should get himself a crab.  Named Itchy.

I really like that they're allowing folks to get PvP gear by doing PvE content (well, Archavon is MOSTLY PvE, anyway... you could just wait for your team to win and then go do him without ever actually killing shit.)  I just wish they'd do the same for PvP.  Why can't I turn my excess honor and APs into T7 or T7H gear?

[clockworkjames]

Dwarfs make sick tanks, now all they need is a tanking mace and I am set. But yeah, DEF on PvP gear would probs never get done because RES is PvP but still, I do PvP because I don't need to get loads of people or wait for guild to do it, getting devent DEF gear is Damn hard. Just sucks how one of the DPS of that fight the first time (Got kicked) was using a RIDING CROP trinket, pretty sure it doesn't even work after 70 or some shit.

[PizzaSHARK]

No, you misunderstand.

By killing Archavon, a PvE raid encounter, you get access to Hateful and/or Deadly Gladiator arena sets, without having to spend the honor, APs, or even get the personal ratings to use them (unless that was added in.)

Why can't I establish my dominance in my arena bracket and use my APs to buy Heroic or Valorous pieces for when I want to do PvE?  Are they trying to imply that PvP is easier than PvE?

[clockworkjames]

I was looking at it from a tanks point of view, in that yes to but PvE tank gear with honour would be nice since the PvP gear can be obtained through spending time on it more than skill, there is no PvP gear or rewards that have def so as a tank PvP gear is useless for raiding. I know what you are saying how you can do PvE for PvP gear but not vice versa, no PvP gear is tank gear. NONE EVAR but some raiding gear could be used in PvP.

I need to raid Just did the Oculus and MAN that last dragon is a dick even with guild on vent, now to do some easy HC's for da purplz since all northrend instances are done.

[Alex C]

Frankly, I'd prefer they keep pvp as segregated from PvE progression as possible, but then again, my appreciation for WoW pvp hovers somewhere between zero and none.

[Josefbugman]

I don't know, I am enjoying Wintergrasp and Strand of the ancients, but then I was always a sucker for sieges.

Oh yeah, thanks for the advice, its been odd going back to Survival after almost 2 years and I have to admit, its a tonne of fun

[Alex C]

Yeah, see, that's exactly the sort of pvp that I can't stand. I'm not one of those goofy bastards who waves their e-peen around and insists that world PvP is the only "real" PvP, but I do have to admit that I tend to like PvP more the less organized it is.

[Josefbugman]

I like my murdering of other players structured myself, I don't like killing people who aren't prepared to die, that said I enjoy PvE a lot more, but I don't generally play enough anymore to be able to really get into it to the extent I want. Also I am DPS, the chance of me getting a space for any group is 1 in 2 billion

Were you a player when they used to have the huge battle between tarren mill and southshore?

[Alex C]

I've played off and on since release, yeah. I only took part in those once though. My guild rolled in and we ended up just camping out in the middle of tarren mill for a while. Was pretty dull after the initial ownage.

[Josefbugman]

Ahhh, I wasn't there before PvP became structured, it must have been fun.

So, hows your guild doing with the raiding in Wrath? If you don't mind me asking that is.

[Alex C]

I'm currently freelance, actually. I rerolled on Grizzly Hills, a fairly new server, since I became a casual player now, for the most part. Apparently my old guild has already cleared 25 man naxx though.

[Josefbugman]

Ahhh, my one is at the same point.

I managed (just about) to be a casual guy in quite hardcore guild, I'm kind of enjoying it and it gives me the chance to see all the cool instances after they have cleared them

[PizzaSHARK]

I was looking at it from a tanks point of view, in that yes to but PvE tank gear with honour would be nice since the PvP gear can be obtained through spending time on it more than skill, there is no PvP gear or rewards that have def so as a tank PvP gear is useless for raiding. I know what you are saying how you can do PvE for PvP gear but not vice versa, no PvP gear is tank gear. NONE EVAR but some raiding gear could be used in PvP.

I need to raid Just did the Oculus and MAN that last dragon is a dick even with guild on vent, now to do some easy HC's for da purplz since all northrend instances are done.

No, no, you're still missing the idea.

I'll walk you through it.  Archavon the Stone Watcher is a raid boss.  He is fought just like any other raid boss, and your tanks (and preferably rest of your raid as well) are wearing normal PvE gear - Defense Rating, Dodge Rating, Parry Rating, all that jazz.  Archavon drops random pieces of Heroic (NX10), Valorous (NX25), Hateful (mid-range S5), and Deadly (high-end S5) gear.  Thus, it's possible for people to get PvP gear (Hateful and Deadly pieces) without spending any time farming up honor and/or APs.

My point is that I'd like the inverse to be possible.  I would like to be able to use my honor points and/or APs to buy Heroic (NX10) and Valorous (NX25) gear, and I don't see why it'd be unfair to do so.  Say a Prot Warrior has 20000 honor and 500 APs left over, and is missing that one piece of his Heroic or Valorous set - why shouldn't he be allowed to buy it through the PvP system?  They're already allowing people to kill raid bosses to get PvP gear.  I think it's perfectly fair, and not only that, but a great idea.

Frankly, I'd prefer they keep pvp as segregated from PvE progression as possible, but then again, my appreciation for WoW pvp hovers somewhere between zero and none.

Why?  Why would it be so bad to allow someone that's a huge fan of one way of playing use that way of playing so that he can at least give the other side of the game a shot?

In TBC, if you were a hardcore PvE fan, but at some point wanted to see what all the PvP stuff was about, you'd have to spend hours farming honor to buy the HWL/S1/S2 set available, and then use that set to earn APs, which you would use to buy S3/S4 and really be able to compete at a high level.  Similarly, you couldn't really go into, say, Black Temple wearing your Vengeful or Brutal Gladiator set and expect to do very well, because itemization for PvP is often quite different from PvE (example, Holy Pallies focus obsessively on crit in PvP while mp5 and INT are also valued in PvE, and PvP gear has way more STA than anyone needs for PvE.)

Why shouldn't someone be able to use all that time spent in one game mode to get a start in the other game mode?

For the record, I don't like the idea of being able to get Hateful or Deadly pieces, which have PR requirements to buy, through drops, like they are on Archavon.  But I wouldn't really have too much of a problem if you could buy a piece of Hateful of Emblems of Heroism (at, say, 60 to 80 emblems apiece) or a piece of Deadly with Emblems of Valor.  You spent the time and effort to earn those badges... why shouldn't you be allowed to use them how you want to use them?  The same idea applies with PvP currencies - why couldn't I spend my excess honor (let's say, 35k or so) on Heroic set pieces (the NX10 set) or my excess APs (let's say about 800-1200 apiece) on Valorous (NX25 set)?  Are you trying to say that PvE gamers' $15/month is worth more than a PvP gamer's $15/month?

[Alex C]

Because if good PvE gear is available through PvP, whatever raiding guild I throw my hat into the ring with will almost inevitably start requiring people to use PvP as a way to fill out any gaps in gear selection. This already happens to an extent, and I frankly, I'd rather avoid it if at all possible.

Also, I really don't give a shit what happens to PvPers.They're blizzard's problem, not mine.

[clockworkjames]

Dude that is EXACTLY What I was getting from what you were saying, ATM you get PvP stuff for a PvE raid, You want to get PvE stuff for doing PvP ie. trading honour for PvE gear.

Take the res and AP/crit off PvP gear, add in Def and Dodge/Block and it's tank gear, just different set bonuses.

If they made a PvP set with Def/dodge/block and different set bonuses (Which they never would) It would be PvE tank gear.

Getting PvP gear from PvE is what there is, Getting PvE gear from PvP is what you want.

[PizzaSHARK]

Because if good PvE gear is available through PvP, whatever raiding guild I throw my hat into the ring with will almost inevitably start requiring people to use PvP as a way to fill out any gaps in gear selection. This already happens to an extent, and I frankly, I'd rather avoid it if at all possible. Also, I really don't give a crap about what PvPers think.

Also, I really don't give a shit what happens to PvPers.They're blizzard's problem, not mine.

Don't worry, we feel similarly.  I get annoyed every time they fuck with my talents and abilities because of some kind of PvE-related crap.

clockworkjames: I'm not talking about new sets.  I'm talking about the same sets.  Heroic Dreadnaught, Valorous Dreadnaught, that kinda stuff.

I still don't see why they wouldn't.  Giving carebears access to epic ilvl 200 and ilvl 213 gear without making them spend the APs or get the PR requirements isn't any different from giving PvP fans tier pieces without them doing the boss/badge grinds.  It's a double standard and makes absolutely no sense.

It's saying that carebears' time is worth more than PvP fans', and that's utter shit.

[clockworkjames]

I think they see it as skill over time spent, from the point of stuff like honour farming for instance. Pay someone to get you the honour for epix, but you cannot pay someone to do your HC's so easily.

Same reason they put in Island dailies, to stop gold sellers. It worked to an extent and the price of gold dropped like a lead balloon.

PvP gear = time spent (and skill for arena but you can still get sick gear from honour only, the bloo set)
PvE gear = Skill and time spent.

The worst WoW player in the world could get full PvP bloos, it would just take ages but they would not be able to get PvE gear if they really suck.

if you are good at PvP you get purplz faster, if you are good at PvE it will still take pretty much the same amount of time.

[PizzaSHARK]

Actually, even the Savage Gladiator set (ilvl 200 blues, I call it S4.5) requires APs to buy.  Granted, not many... about 200-300 per piece, so you're figuring a new piece every week or every other week.  And that's completely ignoring the fact that Archavon allows people to get their Hateful and Deadly pieces - both of which have personal rating requirements to buy, some of which are quite steep - without having to do the "skill" part in the personal ratings requirements.  I'm not sure how that'd translate to PvE content; maybe like downing Lootreaver and getting Illidan-quality drops?  Something like that.

if you are good at PvP you get purplz faster, if you are good at PvE it will still take pretty much the same amount of time.

Totally, completely disagree.  I've seen plenty of terrible people at this game (I'm talking fuckin keyboard turners here) get carried by the rest of the raid and those idiots manage to walk out with some shiny new epics, or at least some badges to put them on their way to buying them.

No, farming honor doesn't take "skill", but it's honestly a lot of work.  Saying that it isn't makes me think of people who've never done it before.  I used to lead AV premades back in 2.x, and we made over 2000 honor per hour (about 600 per game, 15 minute games; about 800 per game on AV weekends), and it still took a long damn time to get the honor needed to pick up some of the more expensive things.

Getting APs is subjective.  Anyone can lose 10 games a week.  Maintaining a 1700+ PR to buy Hateful pieces can be difficult.  Maintaining a 2100+ PR is decidedly difficult, certainly not any easier than high-end raiding.

I still don't understand how people think PvP is any easier than PvE at comparable levels.

[Alex C]

Don't worry, we feel similarly.  I get annoyed every time they fuck with my talents and abilities because of some kind of PvE-related crap.

Man, do you have any idea what it's like being a PvE rogue sometimes? Narrowest class in the game, and there's like a mllion and one types of utility we will just never be allowed to have because zomg, we have stealth and stuns! Which would be fine, except those two things are genuinely fairly useless in group oriented content. Until they gave us Cloak of Shadows, we had no way of clearing harmful spell effects from us even after the fight was over. It's pretty annoying having a 2 minute disease on you that does negligible damage but still keeps you from stealthing. Of course, I'd suppose it'd feel even worse if stealthing actually appreciably increased your DPS at all. Besides, even when we did get Cloak of Shadows, the first thing that happened was an epic bitchfests from PvPer mages and warlocks. While their complaints weren't entirely unwarranted, as a PvE rogue it's frustrating since such an ability is more of a luxury item than a truly powerful new ability., even if it it is kind of nice when it keeps you from eating an really nasty boss AOE.

[clockworkjames]

Gonna agree to disagree with you there, althought shitty players can slip through 25 man raids, as a tank or healer you will noticce who is doing truely badly with only a little observation, they will most often get pulled up on it and kicked or disciplined.

The thing about farming honour is it can be sold for real world currency, PvE gear cannot. There is no services from those damn goldselling powerlevellers to get you raid gear, but there is offers for honour farming. Blizz do not like that so the quite rightly do alot to stop it.

[Yakob]

I watched my dad do a raid last night (Naxx25). This was first exposure to any sort of raiding at all and I gotta say, that shit is intense. I don't know if I would have the discipline to that sort of hardcore stuff though. Plus the scheduling would most likely get in the way of school. That being said, my dad stayed 6th in DPS pretty consistently the whole night and won the roll on his T7 chest, so that was cool.

Here he is if you want to check him out.

[jmrz]

Okay guys, I am after some guild advice.

A bunch of people from my previous guild jumped ship with me and my boy to start up our own guild. We've got everything setup - bank tab (working on more), tabard, website etc etc. We want a bunch more high leveled players so we can get together a raid team but I figure generally just having more members is a good thing to start with. So, aside from setting up a macro to post your guild spiel in trade, are there any good ways of expanding your guild numbers? Any particular way we should be wording our advertising?

[Lines]

I tried that once with some friends on the server and it just didn't go very far. We ended up being absorbed by another guild that one of the guys knew people in that was much larger. We also had a chat channel that linked a few guilds together for when we were raiding and needed more people. But when I restarted, the guild had been absorbed by yet another guild and I left it to join one with my meat life friends. It's still a smaller guild of people we mostly know, but if we do group things with decent players that have no guild or are unhappy with theirs, we invite them. I think in all the guilds I've been in, adding people through groups was the biggest influx I saw other than trade macros.

As for wording, just state what you're looking for and what type of guild you want to be. Definitely mention that you have a bank and tabard and that there's a website on the way.

[Alex C]

If you're interested in quality over quantity and have raiding ambitions, the best tool is to be running instances constantly and to include one or two non-guildies with every run whenever possible. Any time you're working with new people is an opportunity to see what they can do as well as a chance to show off your own skills. Remember, unless you're an established guild, you're trying out for them as much as they're trying out for you. Back in my first guild, our best recruiting tools were easily the attunment quests for Onyxia and Blackwing Lair. There's no better advertisement than a group of guys with the same guild name floating under their name helping you quickly tear through otherwise time consuming content. It shows you know how to get stuff done and are interested in people who want to do the same.

[Jace]

A bunch of people from my previous guild jumped ship with me and my boy to start up our own guild.

Thanks for letting me know. 
(unless you sent me something in game, I haven't had the chance to log on lately, then its  )

Guys, I level really slowly. But I don't get the chance to play as often as I'd like. I totally wish I could play at work. Which is why I want to buy a laptop.

[clockworkjames]

If you're interested in quality over quantity and have raiding ambitions, the best tool is to be running instances constantly and to include one or two non-guildies with every run whenever possible. Any time you're working with new people is an opportunity to see what they can do as well as a chance to show off your own skills. Remember, unless you're an established guild, you're trying out for them as much as they're trying out for you. Back in my first guild, our best recruiting tools were easily the attunment quests for Onyxia and Blackwing Lair. There's no better advertisement than a group of guys with the same guild name floating under their name helping you quickly tear through otherwise time consuming content. It shows you know how to get stuff done and are interested in people who want to do the same.

QFT but watch you do not poach, I have my prot warrior in a sick raiding guild with some college buddies and my DK in a nice raiding guild with one of my meatlife friends that I see alot at LAN and we play together every day (the restro drood) so I can jump back and forward raiding with both guilds, the second guild know they can ask for me to use my main as OT but recently my friend has been dropping heavy hints that he wants my prot warrior in his guild, I am not cool with this as recruiting in that guild has stopped so if I left now I would never get back in anyway, but I do not want to leave ever as I like the guys. I got 6 +16 def yellow gems fo free from my friend, he would not accept payment but he has a bunch of 70/80's, but I suppose since I have been making THESE for any guild hunter I see who does not have a purpl on their back and offering to kit out peoples DK's for free (too much cobalt/saronite) so it all balances out.

I am not raiding until I get uncrittable, I am uncrittable in all HC's (490) but not in raids (540) so it will take a while before I am mega useful.

Oh, and whoever's dad is a hunter, might want to consider getting 2 of those swords then ench with agi/AP and it will be fucking ace until that item level 213 purpl drops.

[J-cob9000]

So I am officially a lame loser. Yesterday, I played all day long. Seriously. And I only went up three levels.
I'm too ADD too level.

And also, how many FPS are you guys getting?

[Lines]

Heck if I know. Depends on the area. High population areas (read: the popular cities) will make my movement seem erratic, but then again my computer supposedly isn't fast enough for WotLK. But who cares, it still works and I can still have fun.

[clockworkjames]

I played all yesterday too... 4HC's 20k honour, ran LBRS/UBRS solo, baked a delicious chocolate cake, made only about 170g, rolled a new warrior for that imba trash sword that I also farmed (Solo'd a 130khp giant 7 times for it) then solo-ed hogger at lv 4.

All I got from 4 HC's was a tanking ring from the last boss of UK HC.

[est]

I have taken refuge from the ongoing outworld DK onslaught by going to the Plaguelands (as I skipped them previously) and doing a few quests there.  They are fairly low-level (55-60ish, I am nearly 63) so I am smashing all the mobs.  Fights regularly go like this: Charge, Victory Rush, Bloodthirst, Execute and last about 5 seconds.  I have about 25% crit at the moment, hitting for about 200-300 normal, 500-700 specials depending on armour, 1k-1.5k with crits.  I know it's nothing overly special but it gives a hilariously rompy feel to this depressingly-themed zone.

One thing that was uh, sobering or something maybe?  A level 60 undead Warlock griefed me a bit last night.  I was trying to do a quest and he trained a bunch of mobs onto me on purpose.  I died and rezzed and he stole the quest mob from me even though it looked like he wasn't doing the quest.  I attacked him (he was PvP flagged and was doing the "stand really close to you beinga shit-heel so you can't use your AE crowd-control stuff" tactic) and got his health down almost to Execute territory in about 2 seconds, but then he transformed into some kind of demon thing with full health and killed me.  What the fuck was that thing?  It was kind of embarrassing.  The point I guess is that it told me even though I churn through PvE content I need to know a bit more about PvP.

[clockworkjames]

And knowing is half the battle

[Alex C]

GRAAAAAAH!

God, I hate, hate, hate limited availability patterns. There is nothing more pointless than camping a a bloody vendor; it's even worse than farming for a pattern, since you cannot get any better at it, you just stand there like a dipshit waiting and occasionally switching over to your bank alt in case someone just sells the damned thing on the AH. I don't even intend to use the items I craft with the pattern myself, I just want it because I can get relatively cheap skillups out of it. I mean, damn, I guess I can just use this time instead to go farm up the excess leathers I'd need to use another recipe, but it's still annoying. Alex is filled with nerd rage, Alex smash!

[masquerade]

I felt very sheepish last night being run through DM by a level thirty-nine paladin on an alt. I've been unsure of my ability to solo instances, even though people have told me I can ever since I hit forty. I'm now sixty-six and ashamed of myself. And will begin running lowbie instances post-haste.
Also, bag full of eggs from farming for Winter Veil ftl.

[Yakob]

Oh, you mean Deadmines, okay. 'Cause getting ran through Dire Maul by a 39 pally would be a sight to see (not that it's even possible).

[thegreatbuddha]

That comes up on m server so much I made a macro to spam whenever some lowbie asks for a DM run.

[est]

And knowing is half the battle

That ability is so fucked.