Topic: World of Warcraft (Read 651161 times)

clockworkjames · « **Reply #800 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 22:56 »

Last time my guild did naxx, a hunter was both top and bottom for dmg dealt minus the healers, I was 2nd bottom as OT.

The top damage hunter was in front of the lock and the mage, doin 9.7% of a 25 man raids total dmg by my count... So he was doing more than the lock, the mages or anyone else. He wasn't even going to come on the naxx run because he felt he wasn't geared (his words).
Hunters do sick dmg, but then so do alot of locks, mages, geared rogues...
Hunters do perhaps need a balance which they are getting but it seems like a super big nerf.

Now any feral droods gonna comment on staff changes?

Also priests can go to hell, a shadowpriest caused 4 wipes and the group to give up due to screwups. The dude is not that bright and everyone in the guild is super nice, not always a good thing even if they are all awesome people.

michaelicious · « **Reply #801 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 23:14 »

Yeah I guess that makes all priests bad.

Alex C · « **Reply #802 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 23:23 »

Wanna know something really sad? I once finished a night doing 8.9% of the raid's damage... in a 40 man. At one point I was doing around 14%, which led to the guild leader pausing the raid, kicking two other rogues out and bitching at everyone else for slacking. Granted, I was one of the few guys left in the guild who was into theorycrafting and the like (many of our best members had been recently poached by the #1 guild on the server), but it was still pretty inexplicable, and in retrospect it was a clear sign that it was the beginning of the end for the guild. Shit like that really makes me wonder what blizzard was thinking when they thought 40 people was a good size for a raid. It's like herding cats, I tell ya.

PizzaSHARK · « **Reply #803 on:** 20 Jan 2009, 23:41 »

Priests are fine. It was stated that the 6 second CoH cooldown was intended for 3.x, but didn't make it into live, because they were worried about Priest players whining too much about changes.

However, it was deemed that current CoH without the cooldown was indeed overpowered, so they added in the cooldown. The only difference is they've done it four months after 3.x hit, not immediately.

0bsessions · « **Reply #804 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 06:50 »

Quote from: clockworkjames on 20 Jan 2009, 22:56

Now any feral droods gonna comment on staff changes?

I haven't actually managed to get on the game for more than a couple minutes since the patch, so jury's still out for me. From everything I've heard, though, I like the sound of not being stuck permanently working with staves.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #805 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 10:53 »

Quote from: michaelicious on 20 Jan 2009, 23:14

Yeah I guess that makes all priests bad.

I get your point, one priest healer I partied with recently was sick as fuck, kept me topped up on health all the time instead of waiting until I was low then megahealz.

also patch notes HOLY FUCK DROOD WITH A POLEARM

est · « **Reply #806 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 14:14 »

See, I can see droods with a spear, but a halberd, for example? I've always thought it was odd that they lumped all polearms into one category. The way you'd brandish a spear is very different to a glaive which is a bit different again to a halberd, and if they are going to combine them all then why split out staves?

Alex C · « **Reply #807 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 14:28 »

Let's face it though, half the weapons in this game look like something out of power rangers anyway. Besides, lord knows you spend most of your time looking at some druid form rather than their equipment anyway.

crohnsy · « **Reply #808 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 15:12 »

Quote from: est on 21 Jan 2009, 14:14

See, I can see droods with a spear, but a halberd, for example? I've always thought it was odd that they lumped all polearms into one category. The way you'd brandish a spear is very different to a glaive which is a bit different again to a halberd, and if they are going to combine them all then why split out staves?

yeah that's what bugs me with this game too. The inaccurate depiction of weapons has got to stop....

ackblom12 · « **Reply #809 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 16:13 »

Innaccurate depictions of weapons in a fantasy world? Oh my god.

est · « **Reply #810 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 16:29 »

I don't see the harm in having a layered approach to weapon skills. Instead of "1h Sword" or "2h Maces" you have experience with 1h/2h weaponry, then separate experience for stabbing, slashing, blunt, hook-type, flail-type, etc. I mean really, how would you class a halberd? It is a 2h weapon with a sharp point for long-range stabbing, an axe blade for hacking and a hook on the back for disarming, pulling people off horses and just general CC-type utility. In addition it can be used more or less as a staff if people get into close quarters combat with the wielder.

ps: this is probably why any game idea I'd design would be "unmarketable"

clockworkjames · « **Reply #811 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 19:11 »

Halberds/spears/staves and other polearms all are weilded pretty effectively, less Q_Q because it's just a game. If you want something realistic instead of complaining, go play outside in traffic.

est · « **Reply #812 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 19:20 »

I think you are taking my off-hand comments for a real gripe about the game and find your harsh comment quite out of character for you.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #813 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 19:27 »

My tounge was so far into my cheek it poked out my ear.

To clarify yeah it was a little uncalled for, maybe because of all the things I have read of similar things, like people complaining about minor things about wepons in video games, "KATANA SHOULD NOT BE USED WITH SHIELD!" is a popular one.

I should not have taken this dormant niggle out on you, but it was obviously not intended as to cause real offence to anyone.

tl;dr please don't play in traffic.

est · « **Reply #814 on:** 21 Jan 2009, 19:29 »

Man, that sounds uncomfortable.

PizzaSHARK · « **Reply #815 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 01:25 »

Got my Libram of Renewal, Lv80 medallion, and Titanium Spellshock Ring in about two hours of gametime today. Resilience is up to 318 and I'm closing in on 17,000 base HP. It's been a good day.

Jace · « **Reply #816 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 02:31 »

Goddamn stupid panther mastery. I just wanna do quests and level up, and you just don't spawn for like 40 fucking minutes.

masquerade · « **Reply #817 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 08:46 »

Fuck all the mastery quests. Honestly.

crohnsy · « **Reply #818 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 09:21 »

Quote from: PizzaSHARK on 23 Jan 2009, 01:25

Got my Libram of Renewal, Lv80 medallion, and Titanium Spellshock Ring in about two hours of gametime today. Resilience is up to 318 and I'm closing in on 17,000 base HP. It's been a good day.

yikes 17k I'm a clothie with that in my pve gear..

0bsessions · « **Reply #819 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 09:32 »

From what I know, if you've got 17K health in cloth, you are probably doing something exceptionally wrong when it comes to gearing.

For the record, he said base HP, not armored HP.

crohnsy · « **Reply #820 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 10:09 »

Quote from: 0bsessions on 23 Jan 2009, 09:32

From what I know, if you've got 17K health in cloth, you are probably doing something exceptionally wrong when it comes to gearing.

For the record, he said base HP, not armored HP.

my only guess is the pally is in blues and greens. epics make your hp skyrocket.

With my imp out I am at 19.6 k hp

Warlock and that stat just comes on my gear i also have 2150 spellpower just about full 25 naxx epics. but hey. I must be doing something exceptionally wrong

and for the record it is his hp wth gear on maybe not buffed but im not buffed either. raid buffed im quite abit higher

clockworkjames · « **Reply #821 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 10:14 »

21 man raid buffed

34k, not bad for a warrior with no tier I guess.

jmrz · « **Reply #822 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 17:36 »

We did OS last night and the glove token dropped. I really really hate having to roll on things with DK's and rogues. We had three DK's, a rogue and me (only mage) in the party so damn did I have competition.

We also had druid heals, who rolled on that nice purple spirit trinket that drops in OS. DRUID HEALS ROLLING ON A SPIRIT TRINK. Made no sense to me. The raid was all "WTF? Priest heals need that, I vote he gets it" which is the way it went in the end. Druid had a big whinge about it too.

We also did VoA the night before and I ended up with a nice set of pants - pvp s5ish apparently. Spell power jumped a bunch after I got everything socketed. Now to get revered with Kirin Tor for the spell dagger, nice robes and the head enchant. Then I'll get the offhander from Emblems.

crohnsy · « **Reply #823 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 18:07 »

Spirit is an awesome stat for resto druids. priests and druids that heal should be all over that trinket.

Doesn't matter now anyways the patch broke it. doesnt proc from instant cast spells. might be fixed by tuesday....

jmrz · « **Reply #824 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 18:21 »

Why druids though? Druid heals are more heals over time aren't they? Priests don't have heals like that and really NEED the extra mana regen because they tear through it fairly quick.

crohnsy · « **Reply #825 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 18:35 »

talents for 15% more spirit and also talents for 15% sp from spirit also they may cast alot but spirit is a way better form of regen then mp5 in alot of cases. specially because of the way talents interact with spirit

while priests d spend alot of time dancing around the 5sr good druids make use of it aswell

clockworkjames · « **Reply #826 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 20:05 »

The mage in my guild I do HC's with each nite (saintly) forbids anyone but healers rolling on mp5 gear, the way it should be tbh. The other casters have ways to get mana back, mp5 benefits healers more than any other role.

All I won from OS was the dragonhide bag (yay!)

The dps meter shows hunters still kick ass (this was after 3.0.

, fourplusfive aka 9 is an awesoem beartank (and raid leader) who let me tank the boss which was 8 different kinds of awesome and maybe for the best as he could AoE tank the adds better, andras too since he is pally OT with the mega AoE threat building ability. 9 is happy with the changes to droodz, he has better AP and armour now.

As for bad rolls, the rolls in my guild follow rules which work when followed. Alot of the time if a bad roll is made the attitude is usually "We are doing this every week, it will drop again" or ticket a GM and get it sorted if it is a mega biggie.

Alex C · « **Reply #827 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 20:13 »

Ugh, yeah, I hope you guys weren't too harsh to that druid over it, since they actually do benefit quite a bit from spirit now. I mean, they have the two previously mentioned 15% talents, can Innervate themselves, and much of their mana comes from their 30% regen while casting talent. Druids are already rather mana efficient, but in a perverse way that's also why they prefer Spirit (which indirectly boosts their spell power as well as regen) to mp5 and pure regen boosters like the Blue Dragon card. A druid can't really ask for a more well-balanced healing trinket than the Majestic Dragon Figurine prior to clearing 25 man naxx.

PizzaSHARK · « **Reply #828 on:** 23 Jan 2009, 22:27 »

Druids have been Spirit users since TBC, but they're only just now seeing a lot of Spirit on their gear. Did your raid miss the memo, or what?

MP5 gear is acceptable for Priests and Druids, great for Shamans, and completely fucking useless for Paladins. Naturally, they put MP5 (which, by the way, is a very expensive stat) on the plate Salvation gear. I swear to god I'm gonna stab someone if I ever visit Blizzard.

crohnsy · « **Reply #829 on:** 24 Jan 2009, 06:06 »

might be a good idea to apologize to that druid now. and tell your guild to learn whats important to each class before they start dictating who gets gear.

thats one downside to a loot council looting process bad players who have no clue what gear is good for different classes/specs

clockworkjames · « **Reply #830 on:** 24 Jan 2009, 15:11 »

DKP is a good way to do it, people will only ever roll on stuff they need, smae with the crude lewd suicide kings game.

Jace · « **Reply #831 on:** 25 Jan 2009, 00:08 »

I started a Tauren warrior and got him up to like level 9 in 2 hours without ever playing horde previously. Why did nobody tell me that horde was so ridiculously easy compared to alliance. Also, I got like a shit ton of bags in the starting areas. WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?

Covetous · « **Reply #832 on:** 25 Jan 2009, 05:31 »

And don't have anything with the fact that you are more experienced to do?
Cus can't say I have found either side "easier". The first 10 levels or so are quite easy either way.

Alex C · « **Reply #833 on:** 25 Jan 2009, 11:34 »

Plus, when's the last time you played a lowbie warrior? Warriors are also a lot better at low levels than they used to be thanks to all the tweaks that have been implemented over time. For a long time they didn't have much going for them besides mail and battle shout prior to level 10; they were rather like crappy paladins. I used rend mostly because I didn't have anything better to do. But now? Thanks to all the Rend buffs (particularly the scales with weapon damage bit), I've found that slapping rends on multiple mobs and rolling out some thunderclaps deals pretty nice damage. When it comes to handily dealing with multiple mobs, I've found that only warlocks can compete with warriors now prior to level 10.

Of course, this has less to do with difficulty and more to do with just exactly how many dumb risks you can get away with taking on your trip out of Elwynn. In the case of warriors, the answer is now quite a bit.

PizzaSHARK · « **Reply #834 on:** 25 Jan 2009, 12:25 »

Quote from: clockworkjames on 24 Jan 2009, 15:11

DKP is a good way to do it, people will only ever roll on stuff they need, smae with the crude lewd suicide kings game.

DKP has always seemed hugely counter-productive to me, because if you're intent on progression, your tanks and healers should be getting priority on loot drops, if it's a healer-v-DPS situation (Grieving Spellblade in NX10 and The Turning Tide in NX25 are excellent examples of this.)

Either way, we don't use DKP and have never had any drama problems.

Alex C · « **Reply #835 on:** 25 Jan 2009, 12:45 »

I've never really agreed with the gear healers first approach when it comes to items that actually benefit each role equally, particularly since that just usually means the item has a big honkin' pile of spellpower on it and little else. Unlike with DPS, raw HPS throughput can more or less go to waste in some situations; as long as people aren't dying left and right, I'd rather work on improving dps than on making life a bit easier for the healers; if nothing else it lets you bull through troublesome phases that much quicker. Then again, I am biased; my guilds always took the brute force/as few healers as possible approach to raiding.

[EDIT] Man, I love WotlK gems, particularly when rolling a new character. Being able to waltz into the AH and cheaply pick up 3 plus 12 Agility gems to plunk into your Warden's Hauberk feels almost like cheating. 75 total Agility on your chestpiece without hitting 70 or even bothering to run an instance? Yes, please!

PizzaSHARK · « **Reply #836 on:** 27 Jan 2009, 00:34 »

Well, the general idea is that healers and tanks are absolutely crucial for any kind of progress in PvE. DPS are certainly necessary, too, but DPS classes and specs tend to be a lot more common than healing and tanking specs - the idea being, that if you need DPS, it's usually not hard to find some, while quality healers and tanks aren't nearly as common.

That's becoming a little outdated with the changes Blizzard keeps adding to the game, but in general, I would still give first priority to healers and tanks.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #837 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 00:21 »

It's totally situational, on an enrage timer fight DPS is key, but on patchwerk the tanks and healers also need to be beasting. Youc annot just say "Gear healers first then DPS" since for alot of fights DPS is crucial but others can be done by a MT, OT and 3 healers but it will take you 20 times as long, these fights are not as dps intensive but you still want to finish up before healers end up OOM.

PizzaSHARK · « **Reply #838 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 03:55 »

Fact is, healers and tanks are what make or break any encounter in any PvE content in the game. There are fights where DPS is the real poster child, but every fight needs good tanks, and good healers. If your tanks can't take the hits and the healers can't heal the hits, your DPS is gonna get nowhere fast.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #839 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 10:36 »

What about OS? I tanked the 25 man HC while still crittable in no epix, just non HC bloos. The healing here could be done similarly but we needed to kick 3 DPS and replace them before we downed him.

THis is the kind of exception I speak of.

But yeah, gear tanks and healers first and all will be okay, the only time I can think of tank/dps toes stepping on is rogue/feraltank gear or maybe an offhand/tank wep when you get past needing def so you go for that rogue offhand that drops from that dragon dude.

Alex C · « **Reply #840 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 10:39 »

My argument isn't that healers don't need to be geared, it's that healers aren't so much more important than the DPS classes that items that equally benefit both necessarily have to go to the healers out of hand. A certain amount of healing output is a minimum requirement for handling an encounter, but once you've hit that you're golden; the only question becomes how long it needs to be sustained versus how long it can be sustained. At that point, there isn't much functional difference between higher dps and raw endurance, except the former has the advantage of helping the raid to beat enrage timers, bull through tough phases, quickly take down adds and to make raids shorter in general.

Honestly, I liked how my old guild handled it best, since it was basically classic compromise situation. The roster was basically set in stone and the vast majority of items basically went to whatever class benefited from the item the most with little prejudice as to class role. The only thing that we were adamant on was tier tokens, in which case set bonuses often acted as a sort of tiebreaker along with what alternatives would theoretically be soon available. Basically, if you've got a single piece of tier six and your class has a sweet two piece set bonus, then I'm afraid everyone else is probably SOL when another tier 6 token you're capable of using drops. Likewise if you're not going to use something right away because it'd break up a particularly sweet lower tier set bonus, than I'm afraid you're going to have to get back in line for a while regardless of how nice of a guy you are. For example, rogues tended to be favored over mages and resto druids in terms of tier 6 tokens because frankly, the druid & mage set bonuses were kind of stinky, 4 piece mage bonus aside. In exchange the other two were slightly favored when going after best-in-slot non-token drops. The only role that was really favored were the tanks, and even then that usually took care of itself, tokens aside. Even then the implications of the 4 piece Gronnstalker set gave people some pause.

justlikeaphoto · « **Reply #841 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 14:35 »

As far as I'm concerned tanks and healers shouldn't have priority over DPS. All three play a role in every encounter and honestly, if you're raiding you should easily be geared well enough to take on any current end game content. If you're fresh from constant Heroic and Emblem farming then you should easily be able to do 10 Man OS (and 25 Man OS) and most of 10 Man Naxx without a problem, regardless of your role. The one issue that most guilds run into is they're hitting 80, maybe do a Heroic or two, and then think they're going to be able to MT Patchwerk or that their healers are going to have the endurance to last through Loatheb.

The way we do it in the guild I'm in is if you can use the loot you /roll. End of story. Now we all play on the honor system too, we expect our fellow players to factor in several variables before making a decision on if they're going to roll or not. Depending on how big of an upgrade it is or if it has a role specific bonus (like a piece of MP5 gear, obviously meant for healers and not a DPS) helps a lot in deciding if someone should be rolling on it but generally if you can wear it / use it / benefit from it you can roll on it.

Of course there are some exceptions to the way we do things. We try to make sure everyone gets a piece of loot as long as it's humanly possible. If you win something you don't get to roll again UNLESS no one else wants it or can benefit from it. In Naxx 10 you're going to have people getting multiple things. Excluding Tier gear you're looking at roughly 30 pieces of loot on a full clear (this doesn't factor in BoE & BoP static’s or anything) plus four or possibly five Tier 7 tokens. Everyone can roll on a piece of Tier gear if they fit the bill. If you've one a piece of Tier gear, you don't get to roll on another in that instance (unless as before no one else can use it, which believe it or not does happen). This system has worked very well for us and while I can understand the thought process behind gearing healers and tanks first I really don't see it as being a viable choice. All three roles are needed for every encounter (except maybe Heigan, technically you can do that fight with just a tank and a healer since he doesn't have an enrage timer or anything else that would act as a faux one) and therefore all three of the roles should be on the same plane.

PizzaSHARK · « **Reply #842 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 23:06 »

Quote from: justlikeaphoto on 28 Jan 2009, 14:35

The way we do it in the guild I'm in is if you can use the loot you /roll. End of story. Now we all play on the honor system too, we expect our fellow players to factor in several variables before making a decision on if they're going to roll or not. Depending on how big of an upgrade it is or if it has a role specific bonus (like a piece of MP5 gear, obviously meant for healers and not a DPS) helps a lot in deciding if someone should be rolling on it but generally if you can wear it / use it / benefit from it you can roll on it.

It's how we do it as well. I still think that healers and tanks should get priority, but since I've always been either a tank or a healer, I'm probably really fuckin biased

Alex C · « **Reply #843 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 09:48 »

Yeah, see, I've raided to some extent or another in all three roles and frankly, I found that gear was most limiting as a tank or DPS class. Being a tank is like being a li'l kid at the amusement park; there's a very clear "must be this tall to ride" requirement, so to speak. DPS is nice to gear up because they run under a more is always better mentality. As a healer though, I found that there was a fair bit of wiggle room gear wise as long as you knew what you were doing and coordinated with your other healers very well; I'm not saying their job is easy or anything, just that experienced healers with a good rapport with one another are often capable of doing ridiculous things provided they properly read up and prepare for an encounter. So, generally speaking, most fights that REALLY require you to have beastly stats on your healers are all-around gear checks anyway. For example, Brutallus was going to wreck your shit if you had undergeared players, period; he really didn't care who it was in your raid who sucked. Your tanks are Charmin Soft? That's a wipe. You need too many healers to keep everyone up and thus don't have enough dps classes? A wipe. Your tanks and healers are beasts but your dps sucks? Enrage timer and wipe.

Again, I'm not saying healers don't need or deserve good gear, just that once you have consistent attendance and quality players on board these things usually take care of themselves unless you're working on downing a boss with fairly specific requirements.

est · « **Reply #844 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 16:34 »

As an aside from all this raid & gear talk, you know what I find annoying about WotLK? The Burning Legion are supposed to be baddass, right? Not sure why mobs and bosses in Northrend are more powerful than those in the Outworld. Maybe the official answer has something to do with them being the minions of the Lich King and that he imbued them with some of his power or someshit, but seriously, come on.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #845 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 16:51 »

When you are in outlands everything is multiplied by 1000% but looks the same, so multiply all the values to what it would be in azeroth and your characters get this done when they go through the portal.

Alex C · « **Reply #846 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 17:13 »

Yeah, that's something that's always bugged me a bit too, to be honest. It's like how Ragnaros was supposedly a near apocalyptic level weapon of the Old Gods but for all practical purposes he's a wuss who would have been spanked like a bad monkey by Instructor Raz even before TBC ever came out. It's an unfortunate but likely unavoidable consequence of keeping the progression treadmill going.

DavidGrohl · « **Reply #847 on:** 29 Jan 2009, 20:30 »

If anyone has one of those free friend trial cards, could you PM me a code, please? Thanks!

clockworkjames · « **Reply #848 on:** 30 Jan 2009, 04:02 »

Get someone to send you a friend free trial that isn't a card, triple XP and a mount/free time etc.

If you wasnt an EU one PM me your email.

jmrz · « **Reply #849 on:** 30 Jan 2009, 17:51 »

My guild was offered a merger with some awesome guys in another guild. We took it and on our first day of being in guild, we ran Naxx10 with them. We did the military wing! It was fun and my first Naxx raid. After the first wipe we had, I threw up a table and everyone was all "ooooh!!!! A TABLE! Sweet! THANKS!" - apparently every mage they've had in their raid teams before has sucked ass. I felt pretty damn good. I felt even better when my chest piece token dropped and there were no rogues or DK's in the party to roll on it with me. Hello first piece of t7

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Author Topic: World of Warcraft (Read 651161 times)

PizzaSHARK

ackblom12

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masquerade

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