Topic: World of Warcraft (Read 651138 times)

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1000 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 10:59 »

Like trolling? Is he a troll rogue?

HORDE SCUM TASTE MY BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADE!

Thinking of an evasion tank dual wield dps build for offtanking so I don't get rage starved when not MT'ing something but also being able to tank bossfights,

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/warrior/talents.html?tal=040000000000000000000000000000305043000500302000000000000203351205003011521330110000

No shield, opinions? Obviously this only has a hope in hell of working if they don't ditch the "Rage granted on dodges and parries" idea for 3.1 (dinosaurface)

Alex C · « **Reply #1001 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 14:34 »

I dunno, I'm not really a fan of Fury sans Flurry, particularly since you'd need an awful lot of +hit on your gear to truly benefit from offhand attacks. If you intend to do a hybrid build for offtanking farm content and heroic tanking you might just be better off with an Arms build and swapping to a shield vs. bosses. After all, an Arms warrior can reach Unrelenting Assault if they're willing to give up a few points elsewhere. It's a crap DPS talent, but it's actually pretty sweet for tanking since it lets you spam Revenge like crazy, netting you big threat gains.

If you've got a druid or arms warrior in your guild that can keep Mangle/Trauma up, you may want to consider something like this: Sweeping Strikes Prot spec. It won't greatly increase your rage generation but you will get more damage per rage, since this build would let you swap in a two hander to tag enemies for crits & big bleeds thanks to Taste for Blood, Improved Overpower and Impale/Deep Wounds. And if it turns out that you don't really need Sword and Board/Crit Block for single target threat gen and want more trash damage, you could try modding the build to look like this. The damage probably won't be terribly impressive, but I kinda doubt that the Fury build would do much better; all the gems and gear you'd need to make the dual wielding viable could just as easily go towards attack power and crit when using the 2 hander. Besides, arms has better synergy for situations when a shield becomes necessary.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1002 on:** 24 Mar 2009, 09:53 »

Yeah I was looking at MS tanks and shit too, 1sec cd on revenge would be sweet but only as a MT. I could gear for ALOT of dodge/parry and a fair bit of hit/expertise atm so I really just want to try out a dual wield tank who doesn't need aggro to build rage/put out dps/steal aggro of trash without taunt to build more rage.

Depending on what happens in 3.1 I think it might be viable, or completely shit.

As for hit, you got every +hit+expertise talent apart from strength of arms that a warrior can have. I think it could work nicely perhaps.

Alex C · « **Reply #1003 on:** 25 Mar 2009, 14:15 »

I should mention something: I realize that +hit typically isn't that great of a stat in WotlK for warriors, particularly beyond the yellow hit cap and when compared to strength/attack, but the reason I mentioned it is that I tend to think it would have a slightly inflated value in this instance since I would think your total white hits would end up making an unusual proportion of your damage relative to other warrior builds. After all, for Fury warriors things like Titan's Grip Whirlwind and Bloodsurge proc Slams end dealing stupid amounts of damage. Then again, you don't have flurry, so maybe I'm completely wrong about what your white damage should be like. And if enough damage comes in that rage isn't an issue, maybe you actually could do decent with devastate spam.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that your build idea puzzles the hell out of me.

Yakob · « **Reply #1004 on:** 25 Mar 2009, 16:36 »

So I've more or less abandoned playing my rogue in favor of playing my holy priest:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=Starsnostars

I'm loving every second of playing her. I've been healing instances non-stop since I hit 59 and I'm sure that won't stop on my way to 80. The only thing that is worrying me right now is the 3.1 patch. At the moment, I'm pretty much taking intel and spirit 1:1 (of course favoring spirit). With spirit being nerfed 40% next patch, I don't know how much my itemization is going to have to change.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1005 on:** 25 Mar 2009, 20:09 »

My idea is to make a prot warrior without a shield who can still offtank and dps without aggro without getting rage starved, but can also tank when it comes down to a boss fight through avoidance.

Alex C · « **Reply #1006 on:** 25 Mar 2009, 22:20 »

Well, I understand literally what you're trying to do, I'm just kinda lukewarm on speccing towards dps while offtanking in situations where survivability is a concern, that's all. It's just a byproduct of my old ways. Empire usually just stuck to bear offtanks for a lot of things, and when another prot warrior was brought along, typically he was specd no different than the MT, except with points moved around for improved shouts.

Covetous · « **Reply #1007 on:** 26 Mar 2009, 00:01 »

Quote from: Yakob on 25 Mar 2009, 16:36

So I've more or less abandoned playing my rogue in favor of playing my holy priest:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bleeding+Hollow&n=Starsnostars

I'm loving every second of playing her. I've been healing instances non-stop since I hit 59 and I'm sure that won't stop on my way to 80. The only thing that is worrying me right now is the 3.1 patch. At the moment, I'm pretty much taking intel and spirit 1:1 (of course favoring spirit). With spirit being nerfed 40% next patch, I don't know how much my itemization is going to have to change.

Spirit is getting nerfed in how much mana regen it is, but meditation is increased in amount (from 30 to 50% while casting) so the difference shouldn't be that great. How much healing your getting out of extra spirit won't change. That's my conclusion anyway.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1008 on:** 26 Mar 2009, 11:50 »

Quote from: Alex C on 25 Mar 2009, 22:20

Well, I understand literally what you're trying to do, I'm just kinda lukewarm on speccing towards dps while offtanking in situations where survivability is a concern, that's all. It's just a byproduct of my old ways. Empire usually just stuck to bear offtanks for a lot of things, and when another prot warrior was brought along, typically he was specd no different than the MT, except with points moved around for improved shouts.

MT is a drood with me and a pally for OT's but for different boss fights I MT while the drood DPS' and the pally OT's or the pally MT's while I pick up adds etc. it works well but a good DK tank would be a nice addition for magic fights.

BeoPuppy · « **Reply #1009 on:** 27 Mar 2009, 00:56 »

Jesus. How many acronyms can fit in a post.

Reading this I feel such a casual gamer. I just want to get The Seeker as a title.

pen · « **Reply #1010 on:** 27 Mar 2009, 08:17 »

Did not know there was a Seeker title. Never paid that much attention to achievements and such, but I think I may need to try for that one.

Alex C · « **Reply #1011 on:** 27 Mar 2009, 09:59 »

The sad thing is I didn't even really notice those acronyms anymore.

Lines · « **Reply #1012 on:** 29 Mar 2009, 08:18 »

So...I finally tried to go to Dalaran last night. That was a bad idea. First attempt completely shut my game down. Second attempt logged me off. So I gave up and tried again this morning just so I could get OUT of Dalaran. It was harder to move my character around early on a Sunday morning than it was to move my character around in high traffic times in Shatt.

Fuck you, Dalaran. I will visit you when another patch comes out.

Alex C · « **Reply #1013 on:** 29 Mar 2009, 09:58 »

Dalaran runs super awesome for me.

Lines · « **Reply #1014 on:** 29 Mar 2009, 10:24 »

Well, my issue with it probably stems from the fact that I'm playing on a 5 year old laptop that technically doesn't meet all of the requirements for WotLK (just the video card I think) and really I have far too much crap on my computer.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1015 on:** 29 Mar 2009, 15:26 »

I am about to do gothink the harvester, bleh.

This is actually a pretty fun fight, on the undead side with all the ret pallys wewt.

/readycheck

Alex C · « **Reply #1016 on:** 30 Mar 2009, 00:30 »

A friend of mine sent me a recount today from when he took his alt through regular Drak keep. He found this notworthy because they had a level 80 rogue in the group who topped out at 780 dps for the run. And this was in a group that consisted of a warrior tank, a kitty, an enhancement shaman, and a holy paladin.

My reaction:

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1017 on:** 30 Mar 2009, 05:51 »

We had this once in the nexus HC back when I was mostly in blues and hc's presented some time and planning, not like now where it is "I PULL EVERYTHING AND KEEP AGGRO SO JUST NUKE AND KEEP ALIVE K THX" when our healer only had 1900 bonus heals or so, a nelf rogue came along doing 300-400 dps, we were confused on vent as to why this was, maybe they were all white hits, an ebayed account spamming sinister strike? no. Turns out he had levelled with swords and just started using daggers with a wep skill of about 30 when he entered the instance.

So yeah, there are all kinds of people in WoW, you just need to tolerate them.

Lines · « **Reply #1018 on:** 30 Mar 2009, 11:10 »

So I deleted about 11 GB of music I don't listen to from my laptop and now Dalaran isn't the pit of death, but it's still worse than Shatt ever was and I don't think I'll be going there unless I absolutely have to. (I had to go and get the flight point because silly Violet Hold doesn't have a meeting stone like Stocks does, which is kind of stupid.)

Alex, that's really sad. But what was sad about the instance I did last night (Old Kingdom) was that I was basically tied with a 78 ret paladin. I'm a level 74 moonkin. And the other sad thing was the two of us did about 70% of the dps, followed by the DK tank and then the other DK. But I'm sure if the healer had done more DPS she could have out DPS'd the last DK too. (I wouldn't have let the one guy in the group at all but it took forever to get a group together for it and I wasn't leader, so whatevs.)

Alex C · « **Reply #1019 on:** 30 Mar 2009, 15:35 »

I wish blizzard was competent and I wish the damned patch would hit so I can go back to using items that are actually, you know, upgrades. I've gone back to using my old Fang of Truth again simply because IP & Shiv scales better than with my other weapon and because Shiv ends up beating Sinister Strike into the ground in terms of combo generation. Right now, I take attack power, haste and +hit over everything, especially agility.

In other news: Human sacrifices, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

Lines · « **Reply #1020 on:** 01 Apr 2009, 08:56 »

A piece of advice: If you have DoTs, use them. Don't let some little 74 with the same spec out dps your 78 behind because you don't use your DoTs. Yes, Wrath is nice and you did double the damage I did with that, but I doubled everything else. Come on now.

michaelicious · « **Reply #1021 on:** 01 Apr 2009, 14:05 »

April Fools jokes were pretty awesome this year. I like what they did with the forums the most.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1022 on:** 01 Apr 2009, 19:45 »

Saying "Remember dots" is like saying "Remember to breathe"

Alex C · « **Reply #1023 on:** 02 Apr 2009, 14:29 »

Mmm, dots. I am still kind of mystified by the fact that I have never mained a Warlock, since in pretty much every other MMO I gun straight for the class that with the most instant cast dots and general utility spells; on paper, I really should be playing a lock. I mean, honestly, the farming capability alone gives me boners. Besides, in world PvP, there's few better tactics than simply dotting someone and running like hell.

Lines · « **Reply #1024 on:** 02 Apr 2009, 18:55 »

Oh warlocks. One of my friends plays a warlock and anytime inane chatter in places like Goldshire would annoy him, he'd strip his character and drop Rain of Fire. Such a fun little spell.

Beren · « **Reply #1025 on:** 02 Apr 2009, 23:29 »

Quote from: Alex C on 02 Apr 2009, 14:29

Mmm, dots. I am still kind of mystified by the fact that I have never mained a Warlock, since in pretty much every other MMO I gun straight for the class that with the most instant cast dots and general utility spells; on paper, I really should be playing a lock. I mean, honestly, the farming capability alone gives me boners. Besides, in world PvP, there's few better tactics than simply dotting someone and running like hell.

You know, same. I've played an spriest to all hell, played a feral druid (which is half just dots at this point), and a boomkin, but getting my warlock past 62 just isn't happening. There's something very weird about that class that's making it not fun and I can't figure out what it is.

0bsessions · « **Reply #1026 on:** 03 Apr 2009, 10:01 »

Rachel and my brother both have Warlocks and they find it to be a blast.

Alex C · « **Reply #1027 on:** 03 Apr 2009, 10:58 »

Yeah, actually, about half the reason I first passed on a Warlock is due to the fact that my roommate already had one so I grabbed Shadow Priest to avoid redundancy; it's never been the class itself that stopped me. Although, I will say that the sheer number of spells they have kind of irritates me when I get the chance to play someone else's lock. It's not like the cycles are confusing or the class is difficult or anything, I'm just a sucker for having everything hotkeyed, bound and macro'd. I get the feeling I'd spend more time fiddling with a Lock UI than playing, since I'm the kind of person who'd prefer to be able to start summoning in under a couple seconds even if it isn't really a time sensitive ability.

Lines · « **Reply #1028 on:** 03 Apr 2009, 13:54 »

The only reason I haven't made a lock is because they can't heal themselves and they are stuck in dps. I gravitate towards hybrid roles for that reason, mostly. I like doing dps and soloing, but sometimes it's nice to be able to heal/tank on the same character without having to level up something from the ground up in order to be able to do that. I hate leveling from 1-40 because it just takes to freaking long. Which is why I have a DK now so I can tank instead of carrying around 3 sets of gear and respeccing every so often if I want to tank with my druid. And since now we get dual specs, my druid will be balance and resto, because I think mostly I prefer healing to tanking.

3.1 - I can't wait.

0bsessions · « **Reply #1029 on:** 03 Apr 2009, 16:05 »

Locks can actually heal themselves. I'm not sure how, but Rachel's yet to have real problems keeping her health up. I seem to recall locks having a drain health spell.

pen · « **Reply #1030 on:** 03 Apr 2009, 16:13 »

Drain health is not very useful, I find. I'd rather have mana. My main heal is Lifeblood from Herbalism. That shit comes in handy.

Alex C · « **Reply #1031 on:** 03 Apr 2009, 16:55 »

Yeah, I genuinely hate that about the "pure" classes. They're kind of a relic from an era in which Blizz was silly enough to think they could balance hybrids in such a way that they could contribute in multiple areas simultaneously without utterly gimping the class. Whoops. As a rogue, I really don't give a shit about dual specs. I just end up performing the same song in a different arrangement. Now, if they'd let me swap to an unequipped Shaman for a few gold, they'd have something.

jmrz · « **Reply #1032 on:** 03 Apr 2009, 17:49 »

So I cancelled my subscription. I don't have time to raid anymore and I can no longer bring myself to sit in front of my computer for hours on end running around and just grinding for hours. I might go back and play for a month or whatever when the patch comes out, but blegh.

Beren · « **Reply #1033 on:** 03 Apr 2009, 18:50 »

Yeah, the lock self healing with Siphon Life/Drain Life/Haunt is pretty ridiculous (large solo capabilities), but of course they can't heal other people.

Yeah, that must be it, the only toons I have stuck at a certain level are a rogue (42) and a warlock (62). It must be because they can't do anything else. Oh, a mage I suppose, at 71, but it was my main for 2 months or so in BC so I could get into a decent guild, then I went resto druid.

Leveling a rogue has been the worst so far. Bandaging after every other mob, yech.

0bsessions · « **Reply #1034 on:** 03 Apr 2009, 19:09 »

I thought of that before I started my Rogue, since I was used to a Druid. He's an undead (Cannibalism), herbalist (lifebloom), alchemist (health potions). Keeping my health up was a huge pain in the ass through the first 25 levels, but since then, it's been pretty much smooth sailing.

Alex C · « **Reply #1035 on:** 03 Apr 2009, 21:38 »

Quote from: Beren on 03 Apr 2009, 18:50

Leveling a rogue has been the worst so far. Bandaging after every other mob, yech.

lol, wut?

Nah, in all seriousness, rogues are a good news/bad news class. Bad news is, rogues are little more than bullies. Dual wielding means you miss like crazy and depending on dodge for defense really kinda sucks. Fighting elites and mobs a level or two higher than you leads to annoyance and downtime since you can't drop them so fast that they only get less than a half dozen swings in. On the brightside, rogues are extremely efficient bullies; you can cream mobs that are 1-3 levels lower than you at a truly mind boggling rate. Kitties are good dpsers and all, but it's mostly through the magic of bleeds & Shred; on any fight that lasts under 30 seconds, they get kind of shortchanged. Same with DPS warriors; their numbers are good largely because bosses give them plenty of time to milk bleeds and spam those sick executes. Rogues, on the other hand, have the option of plain blowing their load practically at will.

Oh, and btw: Cheapshot is a really shitty PvE opener, so make sure you're not using it in the vast majority of situations.

0bsessions · « **Reply #1036 on:** 04 Apr 2009, 09:08 »

You are the only person I know of that thinks cheap shot is overrated for PVE like I do, other than myself. I just find I'm much better served opening with ambush. In subtlety spec, you're going to get the same amount of combo points, but I'd rather have the major burst damage of ambush over the all too brief stun of cheap shot.

Alex C · « **Reply #1037 on:** 04 Apr 2009, 19:25 »

Honestly, stealth has no value to me whatsoever outside of PvP and opting out of encounters/threat wiping via Vanish. They could remove Ambush, Cheap Shot and Garrote from the game and I'd be excited; Maybe then they'd consider giving me something I'd use more often. I mean, sure, all the openers can be sort of useful useful, but they generally need talents and glyphs that could be put to better use elsewhere in order genuinely outperform running up to someone and spamming SS/Mutilate.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1038 on:** 04 Apr 2009, 19:36 »

If it wears leather or cloth or mail I WILL DESTROY IT.

Seriously I fucking love pvp.

Lines · « **Reply #1039 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 08:10 »

I wear leather, but that leather gets an armor bonus equal to plate. So.

0bsessions · « **Reply #1040 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 09:41 »

And big time heals too.

Alex C · « **Reply #1041 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 10:52 »

Warriors have always supposed to have been a counter to rogues but it's never really actually happened in my experience.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1042 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 13:58 »

I facerolled a feral drood in bearform today 4 times, dude was geared too, just too fucking weak to compete attack wise.

And plenty of rogues, I lost count after 5 duelling each one more than 3 times.

GG.

Alex C · « **Reply #1043 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 16:07 »

To be fair, duels are pretty much the worst possible way for a rogue to fight since it puts an arbitrary size limit on the fight area; on my pvp server I would just savagely maul warriors, leave and then wander back to kill them later. Warriors are sorta tricky kind of if they have Second Wind, I guess. Other than that they're only scary if they've got a pocket healer and I don't. Of course, that counts for any class.

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1044 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 17:45 »

Oh my pvp server hunter I often armoury a player before attacking them. True story.

As for rogues, I never really understood the whole "WE ARE PR0 @ PVP" since all they seem to do is take advantage, it is part of their class and they are created to do so, but really how much skill does it take to stunlock someone then cheapshot/kidneyshot them to half death, vanish rinse repeat?

Saying "on my pvp server I would just savagely maul warriors, leave and then wander back to kill them later" is alot like a warrior saying "I just wait for a rogue to loot the corpse of whatever it was fighting, charge stun and bleed it to death" where the ONLY reason arenas and duels are unfavourable to rogues is because it puts everyone on a level playing field, rogues don't like that.

Alex C · « **Reply #1045 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 17:50 »

See, the thing is, I typically win or at least escape when a warrior does things like that. We have escape skills and like mages we can essentially "reset" a fight if needed. I fight on at least even terms against the warriors I fight in duels and slaughter them in world pvp because there's no forfeiting if the fight reaches an arbitrary distance away from the flag. Besides, it's warcraft; you might as well throw skill out of the equation now while we're at it. My old warrior wasn't any more complicated to play than my rogue, he just had intercept instead of cooldowns. WoW is a game of best practices and most pvp wins beyond a certain point come down to discipline and communication with teammates.

Anyway, I'm not saying warriors suck or something, I'm just saying I've never really found them to be as effective against rogues as has been advertised.

Lines · « **Reply #1046 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 18:12 »

From when I did PvP, the ones who were the biggest pains to beat weren't warriors, it was either another druid (usually balance) or warlock. Everyone else I just dropped entangling roots on and kept nature's grasp up. And when I was feral, I did defense and stayed in cat form and snuck up on people. But I don't do battlegrounds very often, because the Alliance on my server don't know the meaning of defense and then get confused as to why we always lose. Oh well!

clockworkjames · « **Reply #1047 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 18:35 »

Paladins are brutal in PvP, and 2 locks vs me and a ret pally with no res was swift but a good learning experience.

As for "it's warcraft; you might as well throw skill out of the equation now while we're at it" that is the biggest load of shit I have ever heard, it's like saying it's pick up and play and once you know what you are doing it's easy and you cannot get any better.

Of course it takes skill, is why some people are better than others.

Vanish, sprint & autorun takes no skill, runaway rogue, nuff said.

Alex C · « **Reply #1048 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 18:53 »

I'm defining skill here as technical ability. WoW has extremely few hurdles to jump in terms of hand eye coordination or precise timing. Global cooldowns provide a built in amount of breathing room between committing to attacks. There are no narrow hitboxes preventing you from scoring a headshot with every click. You work with keybinds and macros rather than convoluted sequences like in fighting games. You can and should set up your UI to inform you of exactly what spell effects will be ending and in what order, so most information can and should be available to you at virtually all times. The game is well-documented, widely discussed and the pertinent information on class abilities and skills are all a few clicks away. Whether a stunlock is easy to perform or not is really quite immaterial because virtually every technique in Warcraft is easy. It is a game of research, judgement calls and discipline, not twitchiness. Stunlocks are easy, true, but if I applied stunlocks willy-nilly to everyone I fought, I would win very few matches indeed. When people get killed in WoW it's typically due to a lack of discipline, poor communication, luck or falling prey to their own self-imposed limitations on what is or isn't an appropriate tactic.

I've played warriors before; they're hardly any more difficult to play in PvP than a rogue. Get off your high horse.

0bsessions · « **Reply #1049 on:** 05 Apr 2009, 18:59 »

Tomato, tomahto, you say properly balancing DPS and proper placement for optimal damage while vanishing to wear down a heavily armored retard is easy, I say standing there and absorbing damage while chipping away at other, more lightly armored, classes is easy.

Yeah, skill comes into play, but it's a two way street. Your seeming disrespect for any non-tanking class seems both arrogant and lacking anything tangible to back up your mouth-running, considering I'm not sure I've ever seen you talk about experience with a single non tank class in this thread.

Me, I've never really had problems with warriors on my druid, it's Paladins that cause me the most trouble. I can't say much for my Rogue, as I've yet to actually do any PVP with him, but I'm confident that I could take a like-leveled one.

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Author Topic: World of Warcraft (Read 651138 times)