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Author Topic: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics  (Read 9662 times)

himynameisjulien

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China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« on: 06 Aug 2008, 10:15 »

The title of my thread might be misleading, because they barred him by revoking his visa (Chinese Gov't needs no excuse to do so), and he was not going to the Olympics to compete; merely to support the team he created, Team Darfur (made up of about 70 athletes). But haven't they already kept other gold medalists and record-setters from competing? I'm kind of appalled that the gov't of China can do this, but am flat out mad that no one is doing anything to stop it. Such as the IOC. Or, seeing as the U.S. occupied a foreign country on some stupid excuse, they could at least say something (Joey Cheek was on the American team last time).
What are your thoughts?
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Thlayli

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #1 on: 06 Aug 2008, 10:21 »

If the US isn't doing something about them openly wiretapping every American that visits their country, it's unlikely they'll stick up for some jock-turned-human rights activist.
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Scandanavian War Machine

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #2 on: 06 Aug 2008, 10:30 »

hmm...i was just thinking...can you imagine if the US imposed an emargo on China like we did with Cuba?

the consequences would be so numerous and far-reaching that it's pretty unimaginable.

i think it would be cool.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #3 on: 06 Aug 2008, 10:36 »

that's sort of the idea.

i am actively looking forward to the end of the world. i would never do anything to cause it because that would be mean but i really hope it happens in my lifetime.
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himynameisjulien

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #4 on: 06 Aug 2008, 14:58 »

I don't mean place an embargo on China, just say something. An embargo would destroy China, and cripple the U.S. for a while. Who else would China sell stuff to in such quantities?
I didn't know they wiretapped every American there, but it makes sense (considering their gov't), and if Americans visit they should probably know they are being wiretapped, like the fine print on cell phone contracts. I don't really care, as I didn't use the phone at all while I was there.
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Scandanavian War Machine

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #5 on: 06 Aug 2008, 16:03 »

i know you never suggested that, it was just a random thought that occurred to me because of China's behavior recently. And of course it would never happen because China supplies the most of the world with cheap stuff and without them we would all fall apart rather quickly.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #6 on: 06 Aug 2008, 16:33 »

Who's Joey Cheek?

Why would anyone fuck with China over some guy I've never heard of?
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himynameisjulien

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #7 on: 06 Aug 2008, 17:06 »

He's an Olympic gold medalist (speed skating) and one of the biggest political activists against the genocide in Darfur. He donated his Olympic prize money last year to a Save Darfur foundation. Read what tommydski posted.
In a similar line of thought as yours, what if, say, some guy in Russia, had taken some American hostage for some kind of political thing. Most people likely haven't heard of them (until the imminent news coverage, same as Joey Cheek, except more people have probably heard of him), so why would the U.S. do anything? I know it isn't the same, but more people have probably heard of Joey Cheek than some random American.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #8 on: 06 Aug 2008, 17:11 »

I honestly don't see the big problem here.
An embargo would destroy China, and cripple the U.S. .
This'll never and shouldn't happen in relation to this or in relation to anything. The global economy fucking needs China like fish do water.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #9 on: 06 Aug 2008, 17:29 »

He's an Olympic gold medalist (speed skating) and one of the biggest political activists against the genocide in Darfur. He donated his Olympic prize money last year to a Save Darfur foundation. Read what tommydski posted.
In a similar line of thought as yours, what if, say, some guy in Russia, had taken some American hostage for some kind of political thing. Most people likely haven't heard of them (until the imminent news coverage, same as Joey Cheek, except more people have probably heard of him), so why would the U.S. do anything? I know it isn't the same, but more people have probably heard of Joey Cheek than some random American.

Yeah, I'm perfectly able find out who Joey Cheek is. It was a rhetorical question aimed to hi-light the fact that he's relatively unknown, and therefore any country able to do anything about it probably wouldn't. This is quite aside from the fact that there is only one country that has any leverage with China, and they wouldn't lightly compromise their diplomatic relationship over a relatively unknown political activist whose visa refusal is unrelated to any direct political matters between the U.S. and China.
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Johnny C

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #10 on: 06 Aug 2008, 22:00 »

NUKE THE HELL OUT OF THE BASTARDS
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Liz

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #11 on: 06 Aug 2008, 22:09 »

Johnny have you been drinking again?
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #12 on: 06 Aug 2008, 22:41 »

I wish.

Instead I've been thinking about how depressing it is that a country with such a miserable human rights and just basic overall social track record as China has been awarded the Olympic Games, which bring in an absurd amount of revenue and tourists, in exchange for effectively a) continuing to exist, b) not completely destroying Western economies. Oh, and for having a brutal dictatorial regime responsible for untold murder, death and general carnage.

But I mean spirit of the Games right
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RedLion

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #13 on: 06 Aug 2008, 23:04 »

People give too much credit to China on some things. For example, yes, it's the main investor in Sudan, but Sudan doesn't really listen to anyone. China could probably nudge al-Bashir if it really tried, but it doesn't wield any kind of power over the Sudanese government. Further, China hasn't really had a direct role in Darfur. That said, the fact that on the international stage--particularly on the Security Council--it basically represents the interests of non-intervention in the horrors taking place in Sudan (and, for that matter, Burma and Zimbabwe) makes it pretty culpable as an accomplice.

More damnable is its treatment of Tibetans, a group of people who, literally, have almost no cultural or linguistic connection to the Han Chinese, and a tenuous historical one at best. Chinese rule of Tibet is, in many ways, the largest mass-occupation going on in the world today. The thing is, most westerners assume that things in Tibet were wondrous before China invaded. They weren't. It was a feudal, agrarian society, with crushing poverty all-around. But for Chinese apologists to suggest that that is the fault of the current Dalai Lama is not just disingenuous, but a bald-faced lie. Tenzin Gyatso was a teenager when Tibet fell to the Communists. He never actually "ruled" Tibet; his advisers did. He was a kid for most of the time. So, while Tibet's economy has skyrocketed in terms of growth over the last decade or so, its culture, history and people have been systematically repressed and eradicated for 50 years.

America and Europe have over-extended themselves on the issue of Tibet, though. The Chinese have a kind of inferiority complex built into their society. They were pathetically weak and forced to be under the sway of foreign powers for so long that now that they're a large world power, any hint of opposition to its rise from the outside world, and particularly from the "west," infuriates them and unleashes a surge of nationalist sentiment which serves to solidify the Communists' hold on power. Tibet deserves independence, but it's not going to get it just because Americans and Europeans say it should.

I was roundly criticized for linking to the Economist awhile ago, but it has a goodop-ed piece arguing that China's economic rise should be welcomed, but that its human rights record is horrendous, and it did not deserve to hold the Olympics.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #14 on: 06 Aug 2008, 23:59 »

And the best part is, Tibetans have been protesting the human rights abuses lately due to the high visibility of the Chinese government in response to the Games. The Chinese government's response? They have shut off all communication into and out of Tibet (since they control all telephone and Internet service), and in the vacuum of communication are committing mass murder on all of the Tibetan activists!

So what I am saying is that both the Chinese government and the Olympic committee can suck a fat one.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #15 on: 07 Aug 2008, 00:11 »

The same thing has been happening to a number of people who were going to report on/commentate on the events, though so far not to any participating athletes that I've heard of. And to an incredible number of people who were coming just as spectators. And to a large number who have been in China for a while doing things completely unrelated to the games. They've effectively canceled out all of the boost that Beijing's tourist industry had planned on receiving due to the Olympics; the number of tourists coming this August is now estimated as being barely more than last year. Their entire motivation now is to legitimize Communist rule to their own people by showing to them that the rest of the world accepts them as a world power. Short of drastic action on the part of a large number of countries, they will succeeded at that.

I can understand the IOC's stated reason for giving the games to China - to encourage change. But the world has severely misunderstood the character of the Chinese government and its relationship to its people.

(Also, here's the first link that came up when I Googled "IOC corruption." Pair that with the less-than-pristine reputation that China's government has for corruption, and I think it's obvious that you've got a pretty good match. Spirit of the games!)
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RedLion

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #16 on: 07 Aug 2008, 00:29 »

A couple years ago, China did the most fucking Orwellian thing a government could do: it said that no one could re-incarnate without its permission. Really.

Presumably, this is in anticipation of the Dalai Lama's death, so they can present their "own" Dalai Lama to the world, one who would obviously be pliant and subservient to the Han Chinese. Humorously, the Dalai Lama has basically now said that the next Dalai Lama after he dies should just be "elected" by the Tibetans in exile.

That's the thing I love about the Dalai Lama (aside from being probably the kindest man on the face of the planet). He just kind of rolls with the punches of whatever is thrown at him. Nothing ever gets to him. He's just always so damn...serene.
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jimbunny

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #17 on: 07 Aug 2008, 00:38 »

Quote
would obviously be pliant and subservient to the Han Chinese

Confusing an ethnicity with a regime...
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KharBevNor

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #18 on: 07 Aug 2008, 01:38 »

IOlympic Games, which bring in an absurd amount of revenue and tourists

Heh, Olympic games don't make money. They don't even bring in tourists. The Greeks lost є7 billion. The Sydney games cost $6.6 billion AUS, and to quote wikipedia:

Quote
It has been estimated that the economic impact of the 2000 Olympics was that $AUS 2.1 billion has been shaved from public consumption. Economic growth was not stimulated to a net benefit and in the years since 2000, foreign tourism to NSW grew by less than tourism to Australia as a whole. A "multiplier" effect on broader economic development is not realised as a simple "multiplier" analysis fails to capture is that resources have to be redirected from elsewhere: the building of a stadium is at the expense of other public works such as extensions to hospitals. Building sporting venues does not add to the aggregate stock of productive capital in the years following the Games: "Equestrian centres, softball compounds and man-made rapids are not particularly useful beyond their immediate function."

China is covering a lot of the costs with corporate sponsorship, but they've already had to basically give away large number of tickets in order to prevent there being empty seats in the stadium, and so far the entire thing has been a vast public relations disaster for China, bringing every shitty thing they're doing into lurid detail. They're very unlikely to MAKE money out of this. The best any recent olympics has done is break even (Atlanta).

Which is not to say that I approve at all. In fact, I don't approve of the Olympics at all. It is a phenomenal, pointless waste of money and effort on sports that nobody actually gives a fuck about anyway. I really can't see how anyone could ever justify spending that amount of money on a one-off loss-making jock carnival when there are poor, jobless, ill or hungry people in their own country. The Chinese olympics are more intrinsically horrifying of course, because the chinese are vicious, contemptible fascist thugs, and this whole debacle has been the final proof that the IOC does not actually care two fucking shits about human rights, international co-operation, or really anything except their salaries, the bizarre power they wield and the amount of pate de fois gras and champagne they can stuff down their bloated gullets. I will not be watching the Olympics, and since I throw away the sports supplement of the Guardian whenever I buy it, I doubt I will read anything about it either, unless shit spills over to the real, grown-ups paper. I couldn't even stomach watching something this morally dubious. I might as well just go and thrash the dalai lama on the soles of his feet with an iron bar.

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jimbunny

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Thlayli

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #20 on: 07 Aug 2008, 10:24 »

A couple years ago, China did the most fucking Orwellian thing a government could do: it said that no one could re-incarnate without its permission. Really.

Presumably, this is in anticipation of the Dalai Lama's death, so they can present their "own" Dalai Lama to the world, one who would obviously be pliant and subservient to the Han Chinese. Humorously, the Dalai Lama has basically now said that the next Dalai Lama after he dies should just be "elected" by the Tibetans in exile.

That's the thing I love about the Dalai Lama (aside from being probably the kindest man on the face of the planet). He just kind of rolls with the punches of whatever is thrown at him. Nothing ever gets to him. He's just always so damn...serene.

Have you read the recent article about the schism between the Lama and younger 'Buddhists'? There's a rising movement to engage in violent protests and such to bring about Tibetan independence, but 'militant Buddhism' is a contradiction in terms that doesn't sit well with him.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #21 on: 07 Aug 2008, 11:02 »

Seriously, when I first heard that the Olympics were being held in Beijing, I thought, "Well, that's kind of dumb." The pollution there is horrendous and several athletes won't go because of it, protests started as soon as the location was announced about Tibet and human rights, people are complaining about internet censorship, athletes are having press things canceled (the one swimmer who posed nude for PETA had hers canceled, so she had it outside instead), and people are being blocked from the country. I really can't say I'm surprised any of this is happening. I almost expected crap like this to happen. I mean, I know the games are supposed to unite all these countries in peaceful sportsmanship, but people raising a fit because the government won't let them do them do things they shouldn't have expected to do in the first place is dumb. If you want freedom, have the Olympics in a country that doesn't have a problematic government.

Don't take that the wrong way, because I really didn't want the games to happen in China, I think that how their government treats the people of Tibet and people of different religions, i.e. Falun Gong, is wrong, etc. etc., but maybe the committee has learned their lesson now about which countries they choose to host the Olympics in.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #22 on: 07 Aug 2008, 11:21 »

jock-turned-human

I would see this band.
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RedLion

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #23 on: 07 Aug 2008, 13:34 »

Quote
would obviously be pliant and subservient to the Han Chinese

Confusing an ethnicity with a regime...

No, that's what the majority of Chinese refer to themselves as. It differentiates from the ethnicity majority living largely in the east with the Uighurs and Tibetans in the west, and the racially mixed ethnicities of central and southern China.
« Last Edit: 07 Aug 2008, 22:53 by RedLion »
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #24 on: 07 Aug 2008, 18:03 »

That's the thing I love about the Dalai Lama (aside from being probably the kindest man on the face of the planet). He just kind of rolls with the punches of whatever is thrown at him. Nothing ever gets to him. He's just always so damn...serene.

It seems an appropriate time to play a little game called...

Dalai Lama, or Pope?

Chesire Cat

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #25 on: 07 Aug 2008, 18:04 »

Frankly Ive been looking forward to the international debacle that shall be the Beijing Olympics.  This hopefully this depressive cloud that has been hovering over the western world will finally turn to rain and we can get a better idea of what the peak oil world of the future will become.  The Beijing Olympics might turn out to be nothing, or it might turn into an amazing Catalyst, and a unifying event of my generation.  

I was too young to appreciate the Berlin Wall and U.S.S.R.s collapse, or even ugg Cobain's Suicide.  The significant marks world history has made on me consists of 9/11 (Stating right now this just gave the west an excuse to be total dickholes and doesnt qualify as a major world changing event, or at least it shouldn't), various school shootings, every 3 years some new movie breaking box office records (ignoring the fact that rising ticket prices and openings in more theaters turn those numbers in to marketing coups), and most importantly, the world before and after the internet boom I guess being the most significant.

So here I am, stoked on everything having to do with the Olympics except, you know, the actual gaming.
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jimbunny

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #26 on: 07 Aug 2008, 18:13 »

Quote
would obviously be pliant and subservient to the Han Chinese

Confusing an ethnicity with a regime...

No, that's what the majority of Chinese refer to themselves as. It differentiates them from the ethnicity majority living largely in the east with the Uighurs and Tibetans in the west, and the racially mixed ethnicities of central and southern China.

That's what I meant. It makes sense that the government would want a puppet Dalai Lama, but there's no reason to suppose they'd want to make him feel or appear racially inferior.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #27 on: 07 Aug 2008, 19:05 »

It is a phenomenal, pointless waste of money and effort on sports that I don't actually give a fuck about anyway.

Fixed!

I think you are rather more on the wrong side in this particular statement, as there are obviously a very large number of people who care about this, or maybe you were raised on the moon with no TV. As to the morally dubious part, it brings attention to a country, as we are seeing with China, and highlights it strengths and it's weaknesses. In this case it is showing what China is really like by using a mainstream event, sometimes the only medium anyone will listen to.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #28 on: 07 Aug 2008, 21:03 »

Quote
A "multiplier" effect on broader economic development is not realised as a simple "multiplier" analysis fails to capture is that resources have to be redirected from elsewhere: the building of a stadium is at the expense of other public works such as extensions to hospitals.

To be picky: The result of this is more that sometimes that extension just won't get built, not later added to taxpayer burdens. EXAMPLE: The 2010 Winter Olympics in Whistler/Vancouver have had funds redirected from places like a program for finding out how dead babies were murdered. So it's money that would have been spent anyways, it just gets spent on that sports stadium or whatever, and doesn't get directed back afterwards. No net loss to the taxpayer. Monetarily, at least.

yaaaaaay
« Last Edit: 07 Aug 2008, 21:04 by Johnny C »
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #29 on: 07 Aug 2008, 21:43 »

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #30 on: 08 Aug 2008, 06:33 »

It is a phenomenal, pointless waste of money and effort on sports that I don't actually give a fuck about anyway.

Fixed!

Way to misunderstand my point.

When was the last time, outside an olympics, you watched hammer-throwing on TV? When did you last go to a curling match? I bet you love relaxing at the weekend with a bit of Water Polo, right?

My point is, almost every single olympic sport is a minority sport that no one gives a fuck about outside the olympics. And even for the few olympic sports that are actually popular (like Basketball and Wrestling) well, let's just say The Lakers and the Undertaker aren't going to be at Beijing. The games are pure hype. You could replace the sports with anything else and people would still watch. Pure brand.
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #31 on: 08 Aug 2008, 08:13 »

The pollution there is horrendous and several athletes won't go because of it

Yeah I keep hearing about runners who won't go, in order to protect their lungs. This fact is delicious to me.


maybe the committee has learned their lesson now about which countries they choose to host the Olympics in.

In the IOC's defense, their choice was made out of hope that China's hosting of the Olympics would inspire them to improve themselves. The Olympics had that effect in both Japan and South Korea, where the games are still cherished as an important milestone in their national history. (Incidentally, I'm just paraphrasing here an article I read somewhere. Probably the New York Times, but I forget.)

Meanwhile, the current situation with China is still far from the IOC's biggest misstep. At the risk of Godwinning this thread, anyone know where the Olympics were held in 1936?

You could replace the sports with anything else and people would still watch. Pure brand.

*sigh* Way to misunderstand the entire point of the Olympics. I mean, using the term "brand" is technically correct I suppose, but at the same time very dismissive and way oversimplifies the emotions people have surrounding the Olympics.

In a nutshell, the fact that the sports featured in the Olympics are not popular outside the Olympics isn't a criticism of the games, that is part of the point. The Olympics aren't entertainment, they are a showcase for national pride invested in athletes who compete not for money/popularity but out of sheer dedication. Not that it always works out that way exactly (China is in fact exhibit A for forcing athletes to train in sports they don't care about,) and not that I don't agree that the Olympics seem to cause more strain than benefit, but I do disagree with your statements vis a vis the choice of sports.


EDIT: quotes fixed for that whining bitch
« Last Edit: 08 Aug 2008, 08:28 by jhocking »
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jhocking

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #32 on: 08 Aug 2008, 08:27 »

hee hee

KharBevNor

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #33 on: 08 Aug 2008, 08:44 »

In a nutshell, the fact that the sports featured in the Olympics are not popular outside the Olympics isn't a criticism of the games, that is part of the point. The Olympics aren't entertainment, they are a showcase for national pride invested in athletes who compete not for money/popularity but out of sheer dedication.

Sheer dedication and lust for fame and corporate sponsorship!

Oh and thanks, I had forgotten the utterly grotesque nationalism element of the Olympics.
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
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jhocking

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #34 on: 08 Aug 2008, 08:48 »

Not that it always works out that way

Chesire Cat

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #35 on: 08 Aug 2008, 09:26 »

Oh and thanks, I had forgotten the utterly grotesque nationalism element of the Olympics.

Why do people hate both Nationalism, and Globalisation.  It seems like your should like one or the other, no?
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KharBevNor

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #36 on: 08 Aug 2008, 09:35 »

Only if your ideas about politics are about as complex as a Dr. Seuss book.
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #37 on: 08 Aug 2008, 10:22 »

Khar's right; we should just go back to watching basketball, baseball, soccer, whatever. I mean, because those are the real sports - you know, the ones that haven't been polluted by large corporations and advertising. That's why they're the ones that everybody cares about, right?

And who gives two shits about stuff like ping-pong? Other than millions of people across Asia, that is?

And national pride is just a part of it (and to label it "nationalism" is a bit dirty, in a lot of cases at least). Really, it just gives people an excuse to root for somebody. I'd say that most people watching the games do so more from a desire to admire what people can do when they pour massive amounts of time and energy into something, than as a vicarious way of feeling national superiority. It's humanism, basically, the spirit of the games. And you don't see that as clearly in many places besides the Olympics, nowadays.
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KharBevNor

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #38 on: 08 Aug 2008, 10:44 »

I dissaprove of all professional sport.

This guy here sums up a lot of what I feel about the olympics more succintly than me. Dunno what Olympics this is even talking about, but hey:

http://plover.net/~bonds/olympics.html
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #39 on: 08 Aug 2008, 11:04 »

yeah! damn those professional Olympic athletes!

...oh wait.
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Quote from: KvP
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #40 on: 08 Aug 2008, 11:07 »

Human rights abuses, blah so what. More importantly, that was an impressive opening ceremony!!
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #41 on: 08 Aug 2008, 11:36 »

Yeah seriously, how many times did they have to play Scotland the Brave.
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Scandanavian War Machine

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #42 on: 08 Aug 2008, 12:57 »

the opening ceremonies already happened?!

what the fuck time is it in China, midnight?
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Quote from: KvP
Also I would like to point out that the combination of Sailor Moon and faux-Kerouac / Sonic Youth spelling is perhaps the purest distillation of what this forum is that we have yet been presented with.

KharBevNor

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #43 on: 08 Aug 2008, 15:08 »

yeah! damn those professional Olympic athletes!

...oh wait.

Try reading the whole thread. It really helps.
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #44 on: 08 Aug 2008, 15:32 »

in other news: penny arcade is barring Johnathan "Fatal1ty" Wendel from PAX.


(third post)
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also israel

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #45 on: 08 Aug 2008, 15:33 »

Fuck you Khar, I love curling.
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KharBevNor

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #46 on: 08 Aug 2008, 15:51 »

Sorry, Johnny. I was not aware you were a scottish pensioner.
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #47 on: 08 Aug 2008, 15:54 »

The Scott Tournament of Hearts > Khar
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KharBevNor

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #48 on: 08 Aug 2008, 16:02 »

Tournament of Hearts sounds like the title of a My Chemical Romance song.

Just sayin'
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

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Chesire Cat

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Re: China barring Joey Cheek from Olympics
« Reply #49 on: 08 Aug 2008, 16:09 »

Yeah but it plays like a My Bloody Valentine song
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"In this zero sum game everything given to another, reduces me"
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