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Author Topic: Overrated Bands  (Read 290231 times)

Scarychips

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #350 on: 25 Feb 2010, 18:00 »

Fuck You Jace. Just, Fuck You.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #351 on: 25 Feb 2010, 21:24 »

Man what are you guys talking about Portishead is so goddamn boring and soulless it could completely tranquilize a coked-out 3 year old.

I thought that was the idea

P.S; Just in general, can we keep in mind that this is "overrated bands", not "bands i hate"
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #352 on: 01 Mar 2010, 09:09 »

fuck mbv, i liked their non-shoegaze songs better.

and yes, i've heard loveless on vinyl. and the only song i liked was "i only said" or whatever it's called.

also i like shellac more than big black,, let's have a fight about it.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #353 on: 01 Mar 2010, 09:16 »

fuck mbv, i liked their non-shoegaze songs better.

and yes, i've heard loveless on vinyl. and the only song i liked was "i only said" or whatever it's called.

also i like shellac more than big black,, let's have a fight about it.

Isn't Anything was alright, but I just...I don't get Loveless.
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E. Spaceman

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #354 on: 01 Mar 2010, 09:40 »

I can't think of anyone decent who doesn't think Shellac is better than Big Black.


Rapeman was also better than Big Black but only had one album.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #355 on: 01 Mar 2010, 11:13 »

No that is a lie.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #356 on: 01 Mar 2010, 11:59 »

Yes, recently and immediatly before I posted.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #357 on: 01 Mar 2010, 12:03 »

Pavement



:D?
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #358 on: 01 Mar 2010, 12:05 »

I'd agree with that.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #359 on: 01 Mar 2010, 12:55 »

thirded. my favorite pavement album is slanted & enchanted. (the only one where they actually sound like their main influence hurrr hurrr)
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #360 on: 01 Mar 2010, 14:50 »

I love Pavement but I almost have to fourth this, because a lot of people revere them as god-musicians entirely without fault (cough p4k cough), when that's simply not the case.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #361 on: 01 Mar 2010, 14:54 »

I'll say Rolling Stones. What have they done that was so important and so great and wasn't stolen? Same trickk for 50 years now and it's boring.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #362 on: 02 Mar 2010, 00:08 »

The Stones didn't do anything that the Beatles, the Who, or Cream hadn't already done leagues better.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #363 on: 02 Mar 2010, 02:15 »

I have not actually listened to any albums by The Stones.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #364 on: 02 Mar 2010, 02:32 »

Well, perhaps we're judging the Stones too harshly. We weren't around when they started unlike Ptommydski.

I do think that in the last thirty years or so they have become irrelevant. Before that I cannot judge.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #365 on: 02 Mar 2010, 02:34 »

What do you mean, you cannot judge? All their recorded output, and all the recorded output of their contemporaries and influences, is readily available!
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #366 on: 02 Mar 2010, 02:41 »

Yes, but to me it's hindsight. I cannot judge the cultural significance of 'that record' exploding 'on the scene'. I can judge the record but not it's importance at that time.
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Thrillho

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #367 on: 02 Mar 2010, 03:55 »

Not for any record, or just the Stones? Because that lack of understanding can cut you off from appreciating a lot of good music.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #368 on: 02 Mar 2010, 03:56 »

Yes, but to me it's hindsight. I cannot judge the cultural significance of 'that record' exploding 'on the scene'. I can judge the record but not it's importance at that time.

That's what wikipedia is for dummy
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BeoPuppy

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #369 on: 02 Mar 2010, 04:25 »

Not for any record, or just the Stones? Because that lack of understanding can cut you off from appreciating a lot of good music.

You can appreciate the music for the music. But my guess is that the impact of new music cannot be explained. I mean, that whole 'summer of love' thing I get, as a concept but since I wasn't there the importance of the events is lost on me. Likewise, I think if I tried to explain ... Nirvana, let's say, to younger people than myself they'd find it hard to get. But they might still like the music, though.

And, no, Wiki doesn't help.
« Last Edit: 02 Mar 2010, 04:28 by BeoPuppy »
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #370 on: 02 Mar 2010, 05:00 »

also i like shellac more than big black,, let's have a fight about it.

HEY MAN HEY

I WANNA HAVE A FIGHT WITH YOU
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #371 on: 02 Mar 2010, 11:04 »

HEY MAN HEY HEY HEY HEY

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #372 on: 02 Mar 2010, 12:07 »

I have not actually listened to any albums by The Stones.

Should've added a few derps in there. For authenticity.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #373 on: 02 Mar 2010, 14:50 »

The Stones didn't do anything that the Beatles, the Who, or Cream hadn't already done leagues better.

I've heard all of the classic output by all of these bands at some length and The Stones were significantly different to all of them. If you've spent any time with any of the records between Beggars Banquet and Exile on Main Street you might agree with me. The brilliance of The Stones was the fact that they created a new form of pop music which perfectly synthesised rock'n'roll, the blues, country, soul, R&B, folk and gospel. My knowledge of rock music is fair and I can't off the top of my head think of another band which attempted this, let alone succeeded. The Beatles dabbled in a lot of genres but never actually forced it all together into one cohesive sound. The Faces are vaguely comparable but didn't quite manage such a broad sphere of influences. Many bands have attempted to emulate it but as far as I'm concerned, nobody has really produced a convincing facsimile even all these years later. Not even The Rolling Stones, in fact.

Yes, but to me it's hindsight. I cannot judge the cultural significance of 'that record' exploding 'on the scene'. I can judge the record but not it's importance at that time.

If you've heard say, Let it Bleed and decided you hate it, fair enough. Obviously that's a valid opinion regardless of the perceived critical or cultural "importance" of an album and I wouldn't try to change it for the world. If not, give it a spin.

The opening song on the album is 'Gimme Shelter', which I'd argue is one of the best rock songs ever committed to tape. Although you're correct, you and I weren't there, I think it's even more apparent with hindsight that this song was markedly different from the recorded output of their peers at the time. I'm sure you have a reasonable awareness of what the sixties were like in terms of the emerging counter-culture and also the fact that by 1969, it had become a thoroughly commercialised nightmare from which many were now emerging with a considerable bitterness at broken expectations. Think of pop songs from the mid to late sixties in your head for a moment. Even in 1969, the peers of the Rolling Stones were releasing singles like 'Lady Madonna', 'Shangri-La', 'Pinball Wizard' etc. These are great songs but it's not a huge leap to admit that 'Gimme Shelter' is a significantly different song. It's fiercer, harder, more driving. The recording is dry and harsh. Considering the socio-political landscape of America at the time - at the tail end of a cultural revolution of sorts, during a unpopular war and more significantly, at a critical point in terms of the civil rights movement - would the apocalyptic imagery contained within the lyrics bear extra relevance? Is the fact that a female African-American is prominently featured singing and at times literally screaming that "rape and murder is just a shot away" equally significant to the era, especially given the fact that mere months previously the director of the FBI had called the burgeoning Black Panther movement "the greatest threat to the internal security of the country" and was privately advocating its systematic destruction by any means necessary? Mere months after the assassination of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy?

On the one hand, I wasn't there in 1969. On the other, I can make an educated guess based on historical information. Regardless, the music is stellar.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #374 on: 02 Mar 2010, 14:54 »

Has the music board always been the "Tommy writes an essay that makes us all feel bad about our lack of music knowledgeability" forum or is this new?

If not, where have I been oh god
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #375 on: 02 Mar 2010, 15:14 »

Yeah, like I said in the first line under that quote, it doesn't really make any difference regardless. You like it or you don't.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #376 on: 02 Mar 2010, 15:44 »

ti-i-i-ime is on my side (jarringly short pause) YES IT IS


that's pretty much the only Stone's song I really care about, and only then because of the movie Fallen.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #377 on: 02 Mar 2010, 16:01 »

I like Wes Anderson movies more than I really care about the Stones, but I've grown pretty fond of the songs of theirs that appeared in his films.

I do also like Gimme Shelter though. It's really fucking good. Viscerally affecting.

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #378 on: 02 Mar 2010, 16:01 »

The opening song on the album is 'Gimme Shelter', which I'd argue is one of the best rock songs ever committed to tape.

Gimme Shelter is kind of a microcosm of the Stones in general, really. On the one hand, in a round about way, it sort of lends superficial credence to the idea that the Stones pillaged a legacy of black music like a pack of drug addled idiot savants.* After all, featuring a black woman on the track wasn't actually in the master plan when they headed into the studio, so I suppose you could argue that once again they used African Americans as a stepping stone to a higher place more or less by chance and a good producer. But you know what? I don't really give a shit about how the Rolling Stones or even music history in general came to that particular place in time. They still had an edge to their sound that was unique to them and all involved absolutely killed it on that track. Like Tommy, I firmly believe it is one of the best things committed to vinyl. I'm not a big Stones fan in general, but Gimme Shelter makes me admit that those guys are in the rock pantheon and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

*I don't really ascribe to this mindset. I dislike how many people dismiss the Stones as rip off artists and give so many other musicians a pass in regards to the subject of cribbing from blues and gospel influences. I'll grant you that their early career featured a ton of covers, and that they did indeed wallow in a lot of ugly misogynistic stereotypes, particularly in the latter days. They're hardly admirable guys in a lot of ways. But I can't honestly believe they never gave a shit about the music. Jagger shouting "Woo!" after Merry Clayton's voice cracks at 3:02 of Gimme Shelter is too strong of an argument to the contrary.
« Last Edit: 02 Mar 2010, 16:21 by Alex C »
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #379 on: 03 Mar 2010, 03:32 »

Christ fucking shit yes. I care very little about anything else that The Stones have done but I could probably listen to Gimme Shelter end to end, all day.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #380 on: 03 Mar 2010, 04:14 »

It seems to me that a lot of people describing The Stones or Dylan or whoever as folk or blues rip-off artists miss that a lot of folk and blues has always seemingly been constructed from a kind of pantheon of universal songs, riffs, lyrics and tunes that you'd meld into your own order. I mean a lot of people learn to write songs by either accidentally or deliberately ripping off other artists and stapling well known songs together into something new. And no, I don't just mean Noel Gallagher.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #381 on: 03 Mar 2010, 06:41 »

Yeah I don't think that when an artist goes "Hey, what [band] did sounds cool, we should do something like that!" that it automatically makes it a bad thing, because -- almost 99% of the time -- the artist puts their own spin on an already established sound, transforming it and evolving it. That's how music works: "Hey, this is cool, let me try it my way."
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #382 on: 03 Mar 2010, 07:16 »

Every band that I dislike but happens to be popular.

/thread
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #383 on: 03 Mar 2010, 12:31 »

The Stones didn't do anything that the Beatles, the Who, or Cream hadn't already done leagues better.

I've heard all of the classic output by all of these bands at some length and The Stones were significantly different to all of them. If you've spent any time with any of the records between Beggars Banquet and Exile on Main Street you might agree with me. The brilliance of The Stones was the fact that they created a new form of pop music which perfectly synthesised rock'n'roll, the blues, country, soul, R&B, folk and gospel. My knowledge of rock music is fair and I can't off the top of my head think of another band which attempted this, let alone succeeded. The Beatles dabbled in a lot of genres but never actually forced it all together into one cohesive sound. The Faces are vaguely comparable but didn't quite manage such a broad sphere of influences. Many bands have attempted to emulate it but as far as I'm concerned, nobody has really produced a convincing facsimile even all these years later. Not even The Rolling Stones, in fact.

Pink Floyd dude, Pink Floyd
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #384 on: 03 Mar 2010, 13:08 »

Every band that I dislike but happens to be popular.

/thread

Yeah it's every band. Every band with fans is overrated.

The only honest bands are the ones with 0 fans who hate themselves and split up the next day. Sadly if anyone actually listened to them to test this theory they would become overrated. Schroedinger's indie.

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #385 on: 03 Mar 2010, 13:44 »

The Stones didn't do anything that the Beatles, the Who, or Cream hadn't already done leagues better.

I've heard all of the classic output by all of these bands at some length and The Stones were significantly different to all of them. If you've spent any time with any of the records between Beggars Banquet and Exile on Main Street you might agree with me. The brilliance of The Stones was the fact that they created a new form of pop music which perfectly synthesised rock'n'roll, the blues, country, soul, R&B, folk and gospel. My knowledge of rock music is fair and I can't off the top of my head think of another band which attempted this, let alone succeeded. The Beatles dabbled in a lot of genres but never actually forced it all together into one cohesive sound. The Faces are vaguely comparable but didn't quite manage such a broad sphere of influences. Many bands have attempted to emulate it but as far as I'm concerned, nobody has really produced a convincing facsimile even all these years later. Not even The Rolling Stones, in fact.

Pink Floyd dude, Pink Floyd

Pat, I adore Floyd, but they didn't at all do what tommy was describing.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #386 on: 03 Mar 2010, 16:21 »

It seems to me that a lot of people describing The Stones or Dylan or whoever as folk or blues rip-off artists miss that a lot of folk and blues has always seemingly been constructed from a kind of pantheon of universal songs, riffs, lyrics and tunes that you'd meld into your own order. I mean a lot of people learn to write songs by either accidentally or deliberately ripping off other artists and stapling well known songs together into something new. And no, I don't just mean Noel Gallagher.

There's some definite double standards involved too. You see the same sorta thinking in other media criticism:


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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #387 on: 03 Mar 2010, 16:39 »

It seems to me that a lot of people describing The Stones or Dylan or whoever as folk or blues rip-off artists miss that a lot of folk and blues has always seemingly been constructed from a kind of pantheon of universal songs, riffs, lyrics and tunes that you'd meld into your own order.

Fuckin' YES. Blowing In The Wind is based off an old spiritual song, No More Auction Block. Masters Of War is based on the melody for  Nottamun Town. That's the way folk music (used to/does) work, you take an old melody and change the lyrics/structure to work more for a current audience. That's how every single musician ever operates; you take stuff you like and you put it in a blender.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #388 on: 03 Mar 2010, 16:40 »

I realise that was a bit off topic so I'll say FUCKIN PAVEMENT ARE SO OVERRATED BLARRG THEY SUCK
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #389 on: 04 Mar 2010, 00:29 »

The Stones didn't do anything new (paraphrased)

(trimmed) The brilliance of The Stones was the fact that they created a new form of pop music which perfectly synthesised rock'n'roll, the blues, country, soul, R&B, folk and gospel. My knowledge of rock music is fair and I can't off the top of my head think of another band which attempted this, let alone succeeded. (trimmed)

Pink Floyd

Pat, I adore Floyd, but they didn't at all do what tommy was describing.

Idunno man they sure sounded like they took a lot out of gospel and out of '50s doo-wop when they recorded "Eclipse" is all I'm saying. Try to convince me that the lead guitar in "Breathe" didn't sound like it was picking and choosing bits of country (the lead guitar is just a Strat played with a slide, but it sure sounds a lot like a steel guitar) and jazz. And then tell me that "Another Brick In The Wall" isn't lifted directly out of funk. Genre mashing was totally within Floyd's grasp.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #390 on: 04 Mar 2010, 02:02 »

Yes but I think the idea tommy was trying to get across was that the Stones melded all of those influences you just said + more, and did it all at once, in a cohesive and holistic way, as opposed to the examples you just gave where Floyd took certain influences singularly and only for certain songs and certain parts of songs, i.e;

Quote
The brilliance of The Stones was the fact that they created a new form of pop music which perfectly synthesised rock'n'roll, the blues, country, soul, R&B, folk and gospel. My knowledge of rock music is fair and I can't off the top of my head think of another band which attempted this, let alone succeeded. The Beatles dabbled in a lot of genres but never actually forced it all together into one cohesive sound
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #391 on: 04 Mar 2010, 02:09 »

Did I say Justice yet?

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #392 on: 04 Mar 2010, 02:13 »

The debut album was undeniably great but literally everything they've made and done since has been so "paint-by-numbers" that I don't think there's a lot of patience left for them.

Then again, I dunno, maybe people still lose their shit over them? I have literally no idea what the state of dance music is anymore.
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KvP

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #393 on: 04 Mar 2010, 02:23 »

The debut album was undeniably great
The only good track was "DVNO", and that was a straight-up Daft Punk ripoff. And nothing featuring an Uffie feature can ever be considered great.

Then again, I dunno, maybe people still lose their shit over them? I have literally no idea what the state of dance music is anymore.
It was in the mid-30s of Tinymixtapes' top 50 albums of the decade list. They ranked it higher than Discovery, which I thought was funny. But I'm not sure it matters what critics say, the people love Justice. They love Justice and Glitch Mob. They show up to Bloody Beatroots sets.

As for dance music in its current state... A lot of the stuff on Hyperdub isn't nearly as good as it's made out to be. The post-Dilla west coast abstract hip hop scene (say that five times fast) is becoming overheated pretty fast as well, I think. I've had a bunch of freshman twats in Boulder try and sell me on how Shpongle is REVOLUTIONIZING MUSIC, but I'm pretty sure I identified the source of that praise, and it's almost exclusively the Burning Man festival and its assorted activities.
« Last Edit: 04 Mar 2010, 02:25 by KvP »
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David_Dovey

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #394 on: 04 Mar 2010, 02:38 »

They ranked it higher than Discovery

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KharBevNor

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #395 on: 04 Mar 2010, 06:01 »

I disagree violently Jens.











Daft Punk are utter dogshit.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #396 on: 04 Mar 2010, 06:04 »

Justice are worse though, so at least we're all agreeing on something.
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #397 on: 04 Mar 2010, 09:28 »

I had some good fun with Justice when they were a new thing to be excited about, but when it comes to the incredibly specific category of French bloghaus from 2007, I much prefer to revisit Danger. 

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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #398 on: 04 Mar 2010, 10:12 »

Oh yeah, that reminds me.

Daft Punk are playin' at my house, my house.

Awesome! Can I come?!
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Re: Overrated Bands
« Reply #399 on: 04 Mar 2010, 10:57 »

Justice were pretty cool but their material doesn't have the relistenability of Daft Punk.

Plus Rex The Dog made them both obsolete the following year soooooo
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