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Author Topic: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore  (Read 25544 times)

Ozymandias

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #150 on: 14 Sep 2008, 00:32 »

Man, energy does not work that way. The energy required to get pure hydrogen would be way more than the energy gained from the pure hydrogen, this is basic physics people, come on, ask your local laws of thermodynamics.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #151 on: 14 Sep 2008, 13:46 »

To be fair I think the dude was just talking hypothetical uses rather than postulating a perpetual motion loop.
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Chesire Cat

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #152 on: 15 Sep 2008, 05:40 »

Bottom line is water as a greenhouse gas is far less damaging to the environment and everything else as CO2 and or Nuclear Waste, and Lithium Ion batteries are tricky to dispose of and expensive to replace.

I guess technically power from wind or solar sources charging a battery powered vehicle wouldnt be so bad, but I put my money of Full Cells as the smart tech.  That and riding Rat-Cyborgs to work.
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IronOxide

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #153 on: 15 Sep 2008, 11:22 »

Man, energy does not work that way. The energy required to get pure hydrogen would be way more than the energy gained from the pure hydrogen, this is basic physics people, come on, ask your local laws of thermodynamics.

Yes, but a self-sustained factory powered by perhaps wind, water, or another renewable source could be put to good use as a dedicated hydrogen plant. This could be used to create massive amounts in a clean way (that does not rape the environment quite in the way of battery technology).
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dennis

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #154 on: 15 Sep 2008, 13:57 »

Man, energy does not work that way. The energy required to get pure hydrogen would be way more than the energy gained from the pure hydrogen, this is basic physics people, come on, ask your local laws of thermodynamics.
Energy conversion is a fact of life. We can use very little energy directly for modern tech, so we must convert it (wasting some of it in the process) to something that is convenient and steady. The reason hydrogen is a good fuel source is that it is a good storage medium for that converted energy (high energy density, but it has other problems, like leaking out of virtually anything you put it into and causing corrosion in steel). So, there's nothing wrong with storing energy from less available sources in H2. Use solar or whatever to crack water, and there you go.

Fuel cells are the same idea.
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Nodaisho

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #155 on: 15 Sep 2008, 20:09 »

Ah, trapping it would work, I was just thinking that in arid large cities like, oh, say, denver, having a couple hundred thousand cars emitting water vapor every day could make a difference. However, unless you get the hydrogen from water, wouldn't the water emitted eventually cause a noticeable change? I know that around here, we would be glad for the extra water, but I doubt that goes for everyone everywhere.

Are the people working on fuel cell tech thinking of using water, or something else? I know you can dissolve aluminum in some solution or another to get hydrogen, but water would be more plentiful, and some of it is in less demand than aluminum.

Khar, unless my elementary school education has betrayed me, we breathe out co2, don't we? So of course having all our industries and vehicles emit co2 won't cause any noticeable difference, we have been breathing out co2 for millions of years (or 6000, depending on who you ask), and no problems so far. Oh wait...

Hmm... Using fusion power to split water, if they found a way to set aside the tritium and deuterium from the rest of the hydrogen, which shouldn't be difficult, they figured out how to separate U-235 from 238, use the deut and trit to power the fusion plants, it obviously wouldn't go anywhere near maintaining itself, but the drain would be somewhat slower at least. Of course, that wouldn't work for another 50 years or so, less if the Japanese ITER facility gets running soon. More if it ends up being a dead end, but lets not be so negative.
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Vendetagainst

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #156 on: 15 Sep 2008, 20:20 »

Hmm... Using fusion power to split water, if they found a way to set aside the tritium and deuterium from the rest of the hydrogen, which shouldn't be difficult, they figured out how to separate U-235 from 238, use the deut and trit to power the fusion plants, it obviously wouldn't go anywhere near maintaining itself, but the drain would be somewhat slower at least. Of course, that wouldn't work for another 50 years or so, less if the Japanese ITER facility gets running soon. More if it ends up being a dead end, but lets not be so negative.

Wait, are we still talking about cars here? 'Cause if we are than you're not really making any sense.
What's the point you're trying to make here?
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KharBevNor

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #157 on: 15 Sep 2008, 21:21 »

Khar, unless my elementary school education has betrayed me, we breathe out co2, don't we? So of course having all our industries and vehicles emit co2 won't cause any noticeable difference, we have been breathing out co2 for millions of years (or 6000, depending on who you ask), and no problems so far. Oh wait...

You know when your breath on a piece of glass or a mirror and it mists?

Think for a second why that is.

Then maybe try knowing what the fuck you are talking about.
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[22:25] Dovey: i don't get sigquoted much
[22:26] Dovey: like, maybe, 4 or 5 times that i know of?
[22:26] Dovey: and at least one of those was a blatant ploy at getting sigquoted

http://panzerdivisio

Nodaisho

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #158 on: 15 Sep 2008, 22:24 »

Vendeta, that was me talking about how you get the hydrogen to run the cars, Deuterium and Tritium are isotopes of hydrogen that are currently expected to be used for fusion power, I was thinking that as you create hydrogen, if you run it through something afterwards to separate the different isotopes of hydrogen, you could sift out the deuterium and tritium and save that for use in the power plant, using the other hydrogen for the fuel cell.

Khar, you breathe out water vapor, I will grant you that, but don't avoid the response by insulting me.
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jhocking

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #159 on: 16 Sep 2008, 13:56 »

You know when your breath on a piece of glass or a mirror and it mists?

Think for a second why that is.

Then maybe try knowing what the fuck you are talking about.

What is the deal lately man? You've been like this for like a month. The first two lines are spot on, and then you go and post that third line.

Vendetagainst

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #160 on: 16 Sep 2008, 14:52 »

Deuterium and Tritium are isotopes of hydrogen
yes
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that are currently expected to be used for fusion power
well they already are used in fusion, just not extensively.

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I was thinking that as you create hydrogen, if you run it through something afterwards to separate the different isotopes of hydrogen
I'd like to clarify that by "create" you mean "liberate through the combustion of fuel". I know it's pedantic, but conservation of energy and all.

This is where your statement stops making sense though:
Quote
you could sift out the deuterium and tritium and save that for use in the power plant, using the other hydrogen for the fuel cell
There are several things wrong with this.
1)Isolating isotopes is expensive and difficult, and in tritium's case impossible (see 2)
2)Though Deuterium is fairly numerous, Tritium has a half life of only twelve years and is found only minutely in nature
   2a)Tritium is produced through the bombardment of nitrogen with neutrons.
3)I cannot tell whether you are suggesting the power plant be a part of the automobile
   3a)If you are, it should be noted that nuclear power plants are outrageously complicated and expensive, and this could absolutely never work
   3b)If you are not, are you suggesting that people should handle radioactive materials on a daily basis?
      -Note that tritium has a low decay energy and can only release beta radiation and is thus relatively safe. Note also that most people should still not handle it because they are incompetent.

If this sounded aggressive I apologize, I have a way of sounding rude when I don't intend to be.
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