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Author Topic: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore  (Read 25901 times)

Ozymandias

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #50 on: 10 Aug 2008, 22:09 »

I found this picture on this internet for earlier in this thread, but I'm going to use it anyway because I took the 5 seconds to GIS.



There you go.
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Storm Rider

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #51 on: 11 Aug 2008, 00:29 »

The number of people on the internet who want to have sex with me has gone up dramatically in recent months.

I'm really not sure what to make of this.
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ruyi

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #52 on: 11 Aug 2008, 02:36 »

I dunno it seems pretty straightforward to me how you should feel
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Liz

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #53 on: 11 Aug 2008, 08:32 »

The number of people on the internet who want to have sex with me has gone up dramatically in recent months.

I'm really not sure what to make of this.

I don't see why this is anything to be concerned about.
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Slick

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #54 on: 11 Aug 2008, 08:43 »

The number of people on the internet who want to have sex with me has gone up dramatically in recent months.

I wanted to have sex with you before it was cool.
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Johnny C

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #55 on: 11 Aug 2008, 09:39 »

The number of people on the internet who want to have sex with me has gone up dramatically in recent months.

I'm really not sure what to make of this.

I dunno it seems pretty straightforward to me how you should feel

Easy there, Dolores.
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WriterofAllWrongs

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #56 on: 11 Aug 2008, 20:27 »

That host is basically the posterchild for what Fox News is.  Some dude who is annoying and buttboyish, trying to make daily events and opinions seem rad and edgy.  Jesus Christ.  It's a news channel and one of the first lines he says is "He founded The Weather Channel, my favorite channel.  Lotta hot chicks there." 

what
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Leonidas

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #57 on: 12 Aug 2008, 07:57 »

I love how he says "We've been trying to get a debate going."

There's already been a debate. You've been proven wrong, and consequently lost.

How has anyone been proven wrong???

Don't get me started on this "global warming" crap. Anyone who now questions this idea of global warming and your carbon footprint are deneyed as modern day heretics. The fact that this global warming argument is an easy ticket for governments and companies to drastically throw up prices, increase legislation, and essentially piss all over the average man and woman are simply ignored in what has become a super fashionable movement.

Yes of course there is climate change, there always has been.  Hell, they used to be able to ice skate across the Thames in London during the Tudor period it was so cold. Before that the the Romans would grow vines of grapes in Northern England in order to make wine. The world has always warmed up and cooled down in natural cycles. It's simply the sheer arrogance of man to believe that they can combat it in anyway and we can stop the earth itself simply doing its thing.....

What about the fact that the temperature on Mars has been rising over the past few years? Is that my fault now because I don't cycle to work and back???

The fact is that we have been sold a lie. A lie which conveniently means that governments and big business can make even more money out of us, and what's more they can try and make us feel guilty about the very process.

By all means be green. Reduce, reuse, recycle and all that jazz. It makes good sense of course it does. Don't buy into the convenient lie however that you and I are to blame for what is a perfectly natural cycle the world goes through and then be made to pay for the privilege.


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Ozymandias

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #58 on: 12 Aug 2008, 14:24 »

Goddammit I thought I killed the discussion.

Fine.

This is what the current environmental debate is:

There's two guys sitting in a room. There's a pile of food in one corner and a toiler in the other. These two dudes are stuffing their face with the food and constantly defecating. They're just letting the feces fall whereever into steaming piles. Eventually, the room gets hotter, proportional to the amount of feces in it. One dude says "Hey, the room is hotter, is that because of the feces? Maybe we should clean it up or something or stop eating so much." the other dude says "The room is the same temperature." Eventually, the room keeps getting hotter and the first dude says "No, it's hotter and it's definitely because of the feces." The second guy goes "Yeah, okay, I guess you were right, but it's not because of the feces. You can't just say it's the feces that makes it hotter, there's way more variables than that here." The first guy says,"Fuck you, look it's the feces. It makes more sense than anything else." The second due is like "Really? Because the walls are hotter than usual too, which can't be because of the feces." Meanwhile, they just keep defecating all over the place and cramming food in their mouths. Eventually the first dude says "Okay, wait, hold on. All we have to do is split the room into your side and my side. If you have too much feces on your side of the room, then you pay me some money and it'll be okay." The second dude is like "Wait, what? What if your side has too much? And I don't accept that the feces are a problem anyway!" Of course, by now the room is stinky, hot, and they're knee-deep in feces. Eventually they die of cholera.

The moral being that it doesn't matter how hot it is, clean up your shit and don't argue about it. It's fucking common sense.
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RallyMonkey

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #59 on: 12 Aug 2008, 16:27 »

That's assuming it's something you can clean up.
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ViolentDove

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #60 on: 12 Aug 2008, 16:39 »

It is something you can clean up.

I'm not even going to get into the specifics of the science, let alone the way the body of science works.

What gets me is that people who say "Oooh global warming is a trendy conspiracy, there's still lots of debate, the science isn't certain" generally use it as an excuse for doing nothing.

Thing is, it makes perfect economic and environmental sense to act as if global warming is man made, even if it isn't.

The reason being making cars more fuel efficient, switching to renewable energy sources, making industrial processes more energy efficient, hell, even making residential homes more energy efficient- all of these things save you money in the long term and reduce pollutants that negatively impoact human health.

Eating less meat might help avert human induced climate change, but guess what- it's also healthier for you! It also reduces erosion to arid farmland caused by overgrazing and hard-hoofed animals!

Running cars of something other than oil might might help avert human induced climate change, but guess what- it also allows you to stop invading other countries to ensure supplies of foreign oil keep flowing!

I personally think global warming is one of the most important symptom of a lot of problems with our society. But even if you ignore global warming, these problems still have plenty of other harmful symptoms which can be addressed using exactly the same actions.

If people can't act on the possibility that they might completely fuck up the earth because they don't believe the majority of scientists involved in the field, then at the very least you'd think they can act out of selfish reasons, like their own wallet and health.
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Johnny C

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #61 on: 12 Aug 2008, 17:01 »



oh awesome cox & forkum

hey what do you guys think about the middle east



oh cool

how about talks with palestinian leaders



hm fascinating

john kerry, do you have an opinion on him



neat

i think we've heard eno



okay guys we'v



listen i need to keep posti



oh god they'll kill me someone get hel









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Leinad

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #62 on: 12 Aug 2008, 17:17 »

Am I going to be ostracized because I found those mildly amusing?
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Leinad

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #63 on: 12 Aug 2008, 17:55 »

Lol, I didn't say I agreed with them, I just laughed at them.
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IronOxide

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #64 on: 12 Aug 2008, 18:34 »

I rarely find bigotry amusing. But y'know, different strokes.
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axerton

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #65 on: 12 Aug 2008, 19:24 »

Ok, in a very simplistic view on our future, depending on global warming existing or not there are four options

1: Global warming was all just a big hoax and we do nothing about it.
Result: We go on living just as we have, though eventually we run out of fossil fuels.

2: Global warming was all just a big hoax, but we act as if it wasn't.
Result: Our quality of living deteriorates for a while, but we are now attached to a renewable energy sauce.

3: Global warming exists and we act to counter it
Result: similar to 2

4: Global warming exists and we do nothing about it
Result: Life as we know it is wiped out.

Now I know 1 is the ideal option there. But personally I would much prefer to do something about it and end up with option 2 or 3, than end up with 4 because we were too busy praying it would be 1.
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Inlander

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #66 on: 12 Aug 2008, 19:26 »

Precautionary principle, basically.
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ViolentDove

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #67 on: 12 Aug 2008, 19:31 »


Now I know 1 is the ideal option there. But personally I would much prefer to do something about it and end up with option 2 or 3, than end up with 4 because we were too busy praying it would be 1.

Why is 1 the ideal option?

I'd have thought 2 would be better, given the inevitable depletion of resources and consequent price rises, which we're already seeing. 
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Johnny C

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #68 on: 12 Aug 2008, 19:59 »

Am I going to be ostracized because I found those mildly amusing?

Seriously?

Which one did you find amusing? Was it the one where Kerry is swiftboated? The one where a furious Uncle Sam punches a mosque into dust? I put a link on the last one to give it some context because there was a similar situation! Was that the funny one?

I genuinely don't find any of those funny in the least. A few of them are actually jokeless.
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Leinad

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #69 on: 12 Aug 2008, 20:20 »

Well the one where they completely ignored everything good about Islam struck me as amusing, having been on the receiving end of that as a(erstwhile) Christian, and the one about the Weather Channel was kinda funny, mostly because my mom raises chickens, and if you anthropomorphised them this is exactly how they would act.

And yeah, the "holy place" one was funny because it reminds me of playing tag when I was a kid. One of the kids who was "it" got really pissed off at all the teasing and beat seven kinds of hell out of the slowest kid.
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IronOxide

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #70 on: 12 Aug 2008, 20:30 »

Please tell me how, as an American (or English, Australian, South American, Mexican, etc.) Christian, you understand the popular persecution faced by Muslims in this climate of fear?

Also, why is random violence amidst a children's game funny at all, and how does it relate to the idea of indiscriminately destroying places of worship?
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Leinad

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #71 on: 12 Aug 2008, 20:32 »

No, I don't understand it. I just said that I had been on the same end of the verbal abuse factor.

As for violence in children's games being funny... when you were a kid didn't you think it was hilarious? I sure as hell did. That is why I still like South Park. And the whole "I'm in a holy place" is like "Haha I reached base! you suck, hahaha."
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Eris

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #72 on: 12 Aug 2008, 20:46 »

I don't quite think you're getting the point of these political cartoons. Just a hunch, but the whole "I reached base!" thing was not what is intended.


Also, what are you talking about with the verbal abuse factor?
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RedLion

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #73 on: 12 Aug 2008, 20:58 »

Yeah, what the hell is up with the mosque-punching one? It's not even attempting to make any kind of comment. And the Somalia one--boy, that worked out well. Now it's just back to anarchy instead of a mildly Islamist government that actually provided some stability.

How has anyone been proven wrong???

It's obvious that you've discounted all proof that has come out that goes against what you believe, whereas there has been absolutely no "proof," no scientific evidence, coming from those who claim that it's a hoax. The very act is futile because it's a scientific law that you can't prove a negative. The burden of proof is on those who are trying to prove a positive--that something does exist. And it's been proven that the earth is warming, and that it's "90 percent" certain, according to the IPCC, the world-wide panel of scientists who are the most well-renowned, well-respected, learned and proven in their fields. I'm fairly certain you may say "But it's called the International Panel on Climate Change! It's so obviously biased!" The Panel was set up and comprised of mostly scientists who had no vested interest or formal opinion on the matter to conduct intensive analysis of continual streams of data and experiments.

Not everything is a conspiracy, friend.
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Chesire Cat

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #74 on: 12 Aug 2008, 21:00 »

Oh jeez, with this holier than thou attitude the forum takes Im amazed we havent solved global warming ourselves.

Leave the dude alone.

*edit*

Im refering to Leinad getting ostracised.
« Last Edit: 12 Aug 2008, 21:27 by Chesire Cat »
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RedLion

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #75 on: 12 Aug 2008, 21:04 »

Correcting a person and telling the facts is completely legitimate, especially when he started off in a somewhat belligerent manner.
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Johnny C

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #76 on: 12 Aug 2008, 23:10 »

I just wanted to know which cartoons he found amusing because I couldn't pick the funny one in there out of a lineup. He gave reasons, I'm satisfied.

Leonidas is talking out of his ass, though. Sorry, Leonidas. You are talking out of your ass.
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Leonidas

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #77 on: 13 Aug 2008, 00:23 »

The burden of proof is on those who are trying to prove a positive--that something does exist. And it's been proven that the earth is warming, and that it's "90 percent" certain, according to the IPCC, the world-wide panel of scientists who are the most well-renowned, well-respected, learned and proven in their fields. I'm fairly certain you may say "But it's called the International Panel on Climate Change! It's so obviously biased!" The Panel was set up and comprised of mostly scientists who had no vested interest or formal opinion on the matter to conduct intensive analysis of continual streams of data and experiments.


But yet it would seem the temperature of the Earth globally has actually dropped over the past 12 months.

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Widescale+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

But yet you say that it's simply a proven fact and it's "90 percent" certain. Putting it in quotation marks doesn't make it true however. Neither does the link I posted. That's the whole point, the debate isn't anywhere near finished.

And as for the scientists that do support the global warming theory, to say they have no vested interest is false. A good number of scientists and lab's are government funded. There's a vested interest straight away.


You could form a club with Leonidas though. Or some kind of right-wing situation comedy. Leinad & Leonidas. Writes itself.

Oh, and so now I can simply be disregarded as right-wing because I dare to question what I'm spoon fed by governments whilst they raise green taxes and force ever more harsh financial penalties on people all in the name of global warming.


Leonidas is talking out of his ass, though. Sorry, Leonidas. You are talking out of your ass.


Anyone who now questions this idea of global warming and your carbon footprint are deneyed as modern day heretics.

And thank you to tommydski and Johnny C for proving my point.

And before anyone else starts. I never suggested that the human race down to an individual person shouldn't take more responsibility for it's actions. Of course people should. Reduce, reuse, recycle and all that good stuff. It is simply good sense. I'm in no way suggesting that people should be reckless and careless with the way they live their lives and what they leve in their wake. The sheer arrogance of the politicians/musicians/actors etc to put the responsibility for any change in world temperature squarely on our shoulders though it beyond a joke. The world has gone through so many drastic changes in temperature throughout it's long long life. Long before we were even emerging from a swamp in Africa. To think that we can in any way stop the Earth from going through its natural cycles is idiotic. If every factory, plane, car, etc stopped today and never produced another drop of CO2 the world will still carry on regardless.
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Johnny C

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #78 on: 13 Aug 2008, 00:53 »

No, seriously.

I was going to say something about this in the last post but I figured you wouldn't be silly enough to focus on the point so here it is: Earth cooling down does not rule out climate change. Whether it gets colder or warmer is irrelevant as long as that change is caused by us. Jesus Christ. And have you even read past the headline of the article you linked to?

Quote
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.

Let's hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat.
The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans -- and most of the crops and animals we depend on -- prefer a temperature closer to 70.

So that doesn't rule out CO2's harmful effects and it doesn't even rule out that we're fucking up the planet.

Incidentally, twenty years doesn't prove dick in terms of global warming. The Hadley Centre, responsible for the image in the article you linked, made this helpful image showing temperatures from about 150 years ago to a few years ago:



Here's a composite of temperatures culled from glacial records dating back four hundred years:



Please note the periods of warming and cooling that are then superseded by the century-long period of extreme warming that is unparalleled in the half-millennium before it and neatly coincides with the invention of things like the automobile.

And who is being fucking spoon-fed by their governments here? The American and Canadian governments have both pulled out of Kyoto and proven non-committal at best on the subject of climate change. I can't speak for everyone in this thread but having looked at a bunch of the research and approximately zero cartoons on the subject by noted ignoramuses Cox & Forkum that I have come to the conclusion on my own that humanity is doing its best through massive consumption of resources to ruin this planet's environment, that climate change is likely happening because of it and quite frankly CO2 might be a red herring compared to all the other shit we dump into the earth, air and oceans and therefore we should be tremendously fucking concerned and maybe rethink the way we as a society deal with our planet's resources. I came to this conclusion on my own.

I've already said it but I'll repeat it, you're talking out of your ass, and I'm not saying that because you disagree with me. I've been in plenty of disagreements on this forum and they don't necessarily involve someone talking out of their ass. You're talking out of your ass.
« Last Edit: 13 Aug 2008, 00:57 by Johnny C »
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Tom

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #79 on: 13 Aug 2008, 01:14 »

H20 in it's gaseous state is also a relatively strong contributer to the greenhouse effect and once things start getting hotter, they keep getting hotter and hotter. It snowballs, so all we can do is just prepare for the storm and learn because, what we're experiencing is the combination of cumulative effect of human "progress" and earth's normal environmental/meteorological trends.
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #80 on: 13 Aug 2008, 02:53 »

You could form a club with Leonidas though. Or some kind of right-wing situation comedy. Leinad & Leonidas. Writes itself.

Oh, and so now I can simply be disregarded as right-wing because I dare to question what I'm spoon fed by governments whilst they raise green taxes and force ever more harsh financial penalties on people all in the name of global warming.

Actually that was just a joke. I thought that was pretty obvious. You both have similar names and you showed a (momentary) appreciation for a right-leaning comic. That's the joke.

Think whatever the chuffing heck you want about climate change, I've made no comment in either direction regarding its credibility.
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dennis

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #81 on: 13 Aug 2008, 03:54 »

How has anyone been proven wrong???
I agree that nothing's been proven, but the evidence is still in favor of global warming being man-made.

Quote from: Leonidas
Don't get me started on this "global warming" crap. Anyone who now questions this idea of global warming and your carbon footprint are deneyed as modern day heretics.
This is the same persecution bullshit that Intelligent Design proponents spout about evolution.

Quote from: Leonidas
The fact that this global warming argument is an easy ticket for governments and companies to drastically throw up prices, increase legislation, and essentially piss all over the average man and woman are simply ignored in what has become a super fashionable movement.
You know this is a popular conspiracy theory, right? In league with fluoridated water mind-control and 9-11 being an inside job?

Also, the fact that governments are capitalizing on global warming hysteria to pass laws and increase taxes has absolutely nothing to do with the legitimacy of global warming. It speaks more to the fact that our government acts in its own interests rather than that of its people. It's fine to believe in an unpopular cause, but at least do it for a good reason.

Quote from: Leonidas
Yes of course there is climate change, there always has been.  Hell, they used to be able to ice skate across the Thames in London during the Tudor period it was so cold. Before that the the Romans would grow vines of grapes in Northern England in order to make wine. The world has always warmed up and cooled down in natural cycles. It's simply the sheer arrogance of man to believe that they can combat it in anyway and we can stop the earth itself simply doing its thing.....
It isn't arrogance if it's true. The fact is, humanity can change the earth globally. We've overfished vast areas of the ocean to the point of collapse, when we used to think that the ocean was so abundant that human activity could never affect it. We've actually removed a good fraction of oil from the crust, fast enough that we are running out of easily accessible supplies. It follows that we've also converted most of that oil into carbon dioxide, which is a proven greenhouse gas.

Is it not more arrogant to believe that everything will be ok if we don't restrain ourselves?

Quote from: Leonidas
The fact is that we have been sold a lie. A lie which conveniently means that governments and big business can make even more money out of us, and what's more they can try and make us feel guilty about the very process.

By all means be green. Reduce, reuse, recycle and all that jazz. It makes good sense of course it does. Don't buy into the convenient lie however that you and I are to blame for what is a perfectly natural cycle the world goes through and then be made to pay for the privilege.
Back to the conspiracy theory! Just because someone's making money off of it, doesn't mean it's not real. It just means that people are gullible.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #82 on: 13 Aug 2008, 05:14 »

Climate change is not proven, but it is a fucking certainty that carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide and water vapour cause a greenhouse effect in our atmosphere. This is not arguable. This is scientific fucking fact. Ice cores also empirically prove that we are pumping utterly unprecedented amounts of these gases, particularly Co2, into the atmosphere. It's like if I'm standing in an underground petrol tank chainsmoking. I know that petrol is combustible. I know that when you contain a rapid release of gases it is a bomb. I know that my cigarette is a source of combustion. But those measly scientists can't prove that all they'll find is half my skull with my glasses fused on lodged up a tree two miles away, can they? Stupid fucking scientists, with their empiricism and experimental repeatability and peer review process. What do they know, eh?
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redglasscurls

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #83 on: 13 Aug 2008, 05:23 »

But when his only ethical option is Tipper, can you blame him?

Come on, she used to be a pretty lady! You can't blame a girl for looking like a middle aged lady when she is one.

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #84 on: 13 Aug 2008, 05:25 »

Man, what dick thought up peak oil? Let's sue the fucker! It makes no sense at all that a finite natural resource could ever run out. Why the fuck are all these liberal faggots telling me I shouldn't use as much fucking energy as I like? They must hate America.

You know I've never even seen an Inconvenient Truth? I read books! Crazy huh?
« Last Edit: 13 Aug 2008, 05:27 by KharBevNor »
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #85 on: 13 Aug 2008, 06:25 »

I am fucking infuriated at these liberal fucking faggots.

Let's have some fucking objectivity here for fucks sake

We are all prostitutes

Khar I am not fond of this uppity fucking viewpoint you have.

Who the fuck said you were allowed an opinion
« Last Edit: 13 Aug 2008, 06:30 by Hat »
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #86 on: 13 Aug 2008, 07:25 »

You're talking out of your ass.

Johnny, while I disagree with leonidas in his analysis of the situation, you are proving his point about being branded a heretic when you toss personal insults.

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #87 on: 13 Aug 2008, 07:32 »

Ok, in a very simplistic view on our future, depending on global warming existing or not there are four options

1: Global warming was all just a big hoax and we do nothing about it.
Result: We go on living just as we have, though eventually we run out of fossil fuels.

2: Global warming was all just a big hoax, but we act as if it wasn't.
Result: Our quality of living deteriorates for a while, but we are now attached to a renewable energy sauce.

3: Global warming exists and we act to counter it
Result: similar to 2

4: Global warming exists and we do nothing about it
Result: Life as we know it is wiped out.

Now I know 1 is the ideal option there. But personally I would much prefer to do something about it and end up with option 2 or 3, than end up with 4 because we were too busy praying it would be 1.

Why have we not talked more about how good of a post this is?

Let's talk about how good of a post this is.
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #88 on: 13 Aug 2008, 07:41 »

No, seriously.

I was going to say something about this in the last post but I figured you wouldn't be silly enough to focus on the point so here it is: Earth cooling down does not rule out climate change. Whether it gets colder or warmer is irrelevant as long as that change is caused by us. Jesus Christ. And have you even read past the headline of the article you linked to?

Right, so what are we talking here. Climate Change or Global Warming? I ask because it seems that you can pick and choose whatever one of these two catchy titles to suit whatever your argument may be at any given time. If we're talking climate change then I've already stated my point of view on that phenomenon. That it has happened throught the entire life of the Earth to date, with the Earth warming and cooling periodically, sometimes drastically. It's a completely natural cycle that the world goes through and we have no power at all to stop the Earth doing what it does.

The human race is prone to blind panic though. In the 1970's scientists were convinced that the next ice age was imminent. Now scientists (apparently "90 percent" of them) believe that the Earth is going to get hotter with sea levels rising and boiling us all to death. 30 years is absolutely nothing in the lifetime of the Earth, so how come the sudden drastic change in policy?


I've already said it but I'll repeat it, you're talking out of your ass, and I'm not saying that because you disagree with me. I've been in plenty of disagreements on this forum and they don't necessarily involve someone talking out of their ass. You're talking out of your ass.

You suit yourself.

How has anyone been proven wrong???
Quote
I agree that nothing's been proven, but the evidence is still in favor of global warming being man-made.

So what about the rise and fall of temperatures the Earth went through before man was even on the scene? What about the rising temperature of Mars? Is that our fault also????

Quote from: Leonidas
The fact that this global warming argument is an easy ticket for governments and companies to drastically throw up prices, increase legislation, and essentially piss all over the average man and woman are simply ignored in what has become a super fashionable movement.
You know this is a popular conspiracy theory, right? In league with fluoridated water mind-control and 9-11 being an inside job?

Also, the fact that governments are capitalizing on global warming hysteria to pass laws and increase taxes has absolutely nothing to do with the legitimacy of global warming. It speaks more to the fact that our government acts in its own interests rather than that of its people. It's fine to believe in an unpopular cause, but at least do it for a good reason.


Actually it has a lot to do with the legitimacy of global warming. I can't overly comment on the American or Canadian goverments as I'm in the UK. The the whole thing is as cynical as hell. Governments treat us like idiots and they are hardly beyond using any means possible to use any chance they can get to increase their level of intrusion into our lives and ring more money out of us. This Global Warming panic is an absolute God-send for big business and governments alike. Especially as anyone who dares question their motives and the legitimacy of the global warming argument is ignored and ridiculed as someone who would kill us all!!!!
« Last Edit: 13 Aug 2008, 07:43 by Leonidas »
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #89 on: 13 Aug 2008, 07:43 »

Quote from: Axerton
1: Global warming was all just a big hoax and we do nothing about it.
Result: We go on living just as we have, though eventually we run out of fossil fuels.

Devil's advocacy ahoy - There are Geologists at work who disagree that oil is a fossil fuel. I don't really have the know-how or the patience to debate them but I have overheard this discussion for hours and hours on end. These are people who work in petro-science for a living and have six figure salaries incidentally. The general theory is that the formations from which we extract oil have been mistaken as the origin rather than the depository of oil. This is known as the Abiogenic Petroleum Theory.

Personally I am inclined to disagree but what the hell do I know? Not much!
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #90 on: 13 Aug 2008, 08:59 »

Wasn't the Abiogenic theory invented by the Soviets?

You know, the same dudes who had a hard on for Lysenkoism? And Japhetic theory?

Bullshit ideology driven pseudoscience ahoy!
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #91 on: 13 Aug 2008, 10:09 »

Let me start off by saying I'm not a big fan of global warming as caused by humans. I want it to be just a natural thing for the earth to go through. I really really do. From basic understanding of all the effects of it though, I have figured out the simple pros and cons of how to act.

If it is as I wish it, and there is not much humans can do to stop it and:

~I act as it is a bunch of baloney: Nothing happens, I keep on keepin on
~I act as if its real: I pay a few more dollars to shush the eeeeeeeevil liberaaaaaals and make life a little more convenient for myself(good gas mileage cars especially)

If global warming is in our hands to effect and:

~I act as if it is a bunch baloney: I do my part to doom the planet, I keep on keepin on
~I act as if its real: I do my part to save the planet, and get a sweet car



I personally don't enjoy the thought of global warming, and on a side note, I thought some of those cartoons were at least amusing, if not exactly uproariously hilarious, but through it all, even someone who disagrees with it like I do, the most selfish plan of action would be to just go with the idea that its real. So when I can afford one, I'm gonna get a really good gas mileage car.
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #92 on: 13 Aug 2008, 10:46 »

But when his only ethical option is Tipper, can you blame him?

Come on, she used to be a pretty lady! You can't blame a girl for looking like a middle aged lady when she is one.
[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/127/416826342_110e723316.jpg?v=0[/]


Yeah, but maybe I'd like to be playing some decent music in the background during coitus! Or maybe I'd like to try an exotic position, or dirty talk her, or carve pentagrams into her chest... I mean I would just feel very restricted is all!
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #93 on: 13 Aug 2008, 11:08 »

Maybe we're look at global warming the wrong way!

Maybe we're just being rewarded for treating others the way we'd like to be treated, obeying stop signs, and curing diseases.
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #94 on: 13 Aug 2008, 11:18 »

How has anyone been proven wrong???
Quote
I agree that nothing's been proven, but the evidence is still in favor of global warming being man-made.

So what about the rise and fall of temperatures the Earth went through before man was even on the scene? What about the rising temperature of Mars? Is that our fault also????
No one is arguing that the earth doesn't undergo natural climate change. Geological and biological activity over geological time scales have changed the composition of the atmosphere to a great degree, causing warming and cooling, ice ages, etc. However, the scientific consensus on global warming is that it doesn't fit the pattern of past climate change. Also, consider that the data used to determine that the climate changed in the past is the same data that supports the theory of global warming.

Arguing that global warming is natural because the climate was different in the past is just a red herring.

Also, there is evidence that there is much more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere now than there was at the beginning of the industrial age, and that the increase in carbon dioxide is man-made because carbon from different sources has a different isotope profile.

If you accept that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, then the increase in global average temperature over recent history supports the theory that global warming is man-made. Of course, this isn't proven, but it's what the evidence supports.

Quote from: Leonidas
Quote from: dennis
You know this is a popular conspiracy theory, right? In league with fluoridated water mind-control and 9-11 being an inside job?

Also, the fact that governments are capitalizing on global warming hysteria to pass laws and increase taxes has absolutely nothing to do with the legitimacy of global warming. It speaks more to the fact that our government acts in its own interests rather than that of its people. It's fine to believe in an unpopular cause, but at least do it for a good reason.


Actually it has a lot to do with the legitimacy of global warming. I can't overly comment on the American or Canadian goverments as I'm in the UK. The the whole thing is as cynical as hell. Governments treat us like idiots and they are hardly beyond using any means possible to use any chance they can get to increase their level of intrusion into our lives and ring more money out of us. This Global Warming panic is an absolute God-send for big business and governments alike. Especially as anyone who dares question their motives and the legitimacy of the global warming argument is ignored and ridiculed as someone who would kill us all!!!!

Again, I say: So what? Setting aside the fact that you're not offering any evidence that the government is participating in a conspiracy to defraud the public and just appealing to cynicism, how exactly does this invalidate the science? I mean, if I take advantage of a downpour to gouge people on the price of my umbrellas for sale, does it change the fact that it's raining?
« Last Edit: 13 Aug 2008, 11:21 by dennis »
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Johnny C

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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #95 on: 13 Aug 2008, 11:54 »

Joe, for the record, I haven't suggested anything else about Leonidas besides the idea that on this particular issue he's talking out of his ass. I'm not saying he's insane, I'm not calling him a heretic, but I am suggesting that his opinion is severely lacking in some information. In short, he's talking out of his ass. It's not even necessarily his fault that he's talking out of his ass, he might just not know all this stuff.

Oh boy I love internet arguments that turn into giant text blocks! I'll ellipsis your argument, Leonidas, because I don't want this to be unreadable.

Right, so what are we talking here ... we have no power at all to stop the Earth doing what it does.


The Earth has spent a hundred years, and in fact a hundred years out of the previous four hundred, warming up fairly drastically. There are other graphs dating back to the tenth century that show the exact same trend. Currently we are experiencing global warming. This is a symptom of climate change. Calling it "global warming" simplifies it down to one smaller component of a larger theory.

As Dennis said, nobody defending the notion of climate change, greenhouse gases and the like has suggested that the Earth does not experience periods of warming and cooling. What we (and, y'know, a good number of scientists) are suggesting is that human intervention especially over the last hundred years has significantly magnified the intensity of that warming and cooling, that the changes we are going to see will be especially drastic and sudden as opposed to relatively gradual.

30 years is absolutely nothing in the lifetime of the Earth, so how come the sudden drastic change in policy?

Science has progressed in thirty years. Better computers and more information gathered means we're able to make more accurate predictions based on more certain data. For example, here is a chart predicting the temperature of the Earth without human-created climate change factors (rendered in blue), predicting the temperature of the Earth with those factors (rendered in red) and illustrating the actual recorded temperature (the black line).



Incidentally, you'll notice that the temperature has also climbed fairly drastically over the last thirty years, probably causing scientists to go, "Hm, let's re-examine the evidence."

You suit yourself.

Thanks, I will. You're talking out of your ass.

What about the rising temperature of Mars? Is that our fault also????

Total red herring as well. Mars is a different planet with a different atmosphere and no long-term historical data to compare its current period of climate change, and besides that the climate change is restricted to one hemisphere that is experiencing massive dust storms at the moment. Change in that one area isn't necessarily indicative of change on the whole planet. Long story short, we only have the data to look at Earth's climate, and Earth's climate is seeing man-made change.
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #96 on: 13 Aug 2008, 12:49 »

I think what we'd really like to know is what your brother thinks of all this, Johnny.


But seriously, I agree with everybody who says that we should start making changes regardless of what we think about global warming. Isn't the basic definition of a good person the willingness of somebody to act in an ethically responsible manner regardless of need or consequence?
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #97 on: 13 Aug 2008, 20:59 »

Ozy just won a lifetime supply I red hot lovin'

Also, I posted in the Kenny mere seconds before reading this topic.
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #98 on: 13 Aug 2008, 21:58 »

Quote
and that the increase in carbon dioxide is man-made because carbon from different sources has a different isotope profile.

Could you link to, or reference where you got this information? I'm not trying to say it's incorrect or anything, just interested on reading up on this.
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Re: Weather Channel founder wants to sue Al Gore
« Reply #99 on: 14 Aug 2008, 07:50 »

Well Johhny C, I can also find graphs to "prove" whatever argument I wish to make. In fact for your one graph I'll raise you you Five.




This first graph is from the Hadley Centre of Britain’s Meteorological Office and one of the four bodies measuring world temperature.

As you see, since 1998—an unusually warm year thanks to the “El Nino” pool of warmer water in the Pacific—the world’s temperature dropped back to a steady plateau, followed by a few years of cooling.



The second graph confirms both the halt in warming, and then cooling. It’s from the University of Alabama in Huntsville, which monitors the troposphere—from the ground to 12km altitude.

Only one of the four bodies measuring world temperature, in fact, claims temperatures are still rising. That’s NASA, whose program is run by Dr James Hansen, Al Gore’s global warming adviser and a controversial catastrophist whose team’s reworking of data has been heavily criticised for exaggerating any heating.



This third graph seems to confirm a cooling. Despite media scare stories about a melting North Pole; sea ice has grown so fast in the southern hemisphere there is now more ice in the world than is usual, says the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.



Graph four shows us that global warming hasn't in fact given us more cyclones - or more tornadoes or hurricanes anywhere. Nor is their proof that cyclones are getting worse, according to the American Meteorological Society.

And, please, can we drop that old fiction that the world was never warmer? It’s a false claim made popular by a 2001 report of the IPCC, the United Nations’ climate group, which ran a graph, shaped like a hockey stick, claiming there was no warming for millennia until humans last century gassed up their world.

In fact, that “hockey stick” is now discredited, and last year Dr Craig Loehle, of the US National Council for Air and Stream Improvement, argued that using tree rings to work out past temperatures was clearly unreliable.

He instead produced a graph - Number 5 - of past temperatures using all other accepted proxies:



As this graph shows, and as I have already said, the world has gone though pervious periods where tempertaures rose. Where grapes were grown in the British Isles and farmers in Greenland grew crops on land now covered in snow.




Jonny C, you seem to place so much emphasis on what apparent scientists have had to say on the subject. So take into consideration the fact that 31,000 scientists, including world figures such as physicist Prof Freeman Dyson, atmospheric physicist Prof Richard Lindzen and climate scientist Prof Fred Singer, issued a joint letter in May 2008 warning governments not to jump on board the global warming bandwagon.

“There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the earth’s climate.”

That’s why Ivar Glaever, who won a Nobel Prize for Physics, in June 2008 declared “I am a sceptic”, because “we don’t really know what the actual effect on the climate is”.

And it’s why the American Physical Society this month said “there is a considerable presence within the scientific community of people who do not agree with the (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) conclusion that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are very probably likely to be primarily responsible for the global warming that has occurred since the Industrial Revolution.”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAu68OsFggw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5weG9IllCpo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ictpPrle3EQ&feature=related

You might not take Penn and Teller to be the most scientific, and as everything and everyone there is a bias. Still, it's amusing.
« Last Edit: 14 Aug 2008, 08:05 by Leonidas »
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