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[Leinad]

Hey, just a heads up about Warhammer Age of Reckoning (i searched for it, last post was almost a year old). It is coming out pretty soon and it is looking pretty bad ass.

The whole idea is that it is a PvP game, the PvE content is a means to an end, and that end is capturing the enemy city through a massive PvP battle. It looks pretty fun and should be exciting, what with every character basically designed to PvP, and the whole synergy between characters in a fight. Apperantly healer's are going to be DPSing even while healing, melee is going to be doing AoE heals, and all kinds of crazy stuff. Not to mention you cannot run through another character, so holding a city will actually be possible, and even fun, for tanks.

Anyways, just wondering who is going to be playing this once it comes out, I am very very excited and will be playing under the name Blessthefall or something close to that. It will definetly have "bless" in it. I am going to be some sort of tanking class, as that is what I am really good at, so if you guys ever need a tank go ahead and hit me up, aight?

[BlakeJustBlake]

I heard they were removing a bunch of content to meet the release deadline, sounds like a big mistake to me.

[Leinad]

That's not really what is happening, per say. They are streamlining it from 3 cities to conquer on each side to one on each side, but the main city has aspects of the other three. It makes it so that the entire server is working towards the same goal and the factions in each side will have a reason to work together, instead of just protecting their own homelands. It means that there will be more world wide interaction rather than localizing the conflicts of each race.

[Leinad]

Yes, you WILL care, because it is not possible to access any endgame content except by driving the enemyy completely back into their own city, and then capturing. You cannot simply run past the enemy to attack their city. You have to fight them back. If your city is under attack you can only fight in your city.

[Leinad]

No, there is PvE content available but that is not end game. The end-game is when you are attacking the city (there are exclusive boss fights) and when you assualt the king AFTER taking the city (again, an exclusive boss fight) that is only opened up by success in PvP.

This explains it.

There is also "Sacking the City" things where you get loot from... running around looting buildings, I guess. Apparently that loot is required to even think about taking on the King of each city.

[SimpsonsParadox]

Warning: Semi Curse Laden Rant

My Prediction: This is going to turn into a GINORMOUS WoW PvP Battleground: Every couple of thousand years you have fun playing an evenly balanced match with friends and have a few chuckles. Every other soul/screen crushing day is spent wondering exactly what deity you pissed off today because goddamn if this isn't the 14th god damn time you've lost fucking EOTS and for the love of all that is holy you just want your fucking 20 tokens so you can give a giant glowey sword because the satanic devs decided to not give sword rogues any offhands, and once they finally did they stuck it somewhere that every other guild goes to but YOURS because those fucktards would rather run Kara for the 80th time this week because your second in command still hasn't gotten his head token and the warlock one never drops goddamnit.

Sorry. Anyway, back on topic, I don't expect this to go well. PvP is notoriously hard to balance, especially on a large scale RPG. It seems they've already had problems (They cut 4? 5? classes due to game balance already?) with class balance. I'll have to see how everything is going 6 months in before I decide if I want to even come near it or not.

[Covetous]

The reasons given for the cuts are not being able to deliver what was expected of the content. They have cut 2 capitols on both sides and a total of 4 classes, 2 on each side.
The classes cut did apperently not add any unicue aspects to the game.

I will start playing it and are quite much looking foreward to it. Might be due to allready playing warhammer. The content seems nice and they seem to have been able to fix/avoid quite a few bugs that is in WoW.


I will edit the worst misstakes in spelling and grammer tomorrow. Right now I'm a bit "not sober enough".

[Leinad]

And it is not really even close to the same kind of game as WoW. I mean sure it is a MMORPG that gives you bonuses from being in a guild, but the end goal of WoW is PvE which is made accessible by doing PvE, whereas the end game content in WAR is going to be PvE/PvP opened up by doing both PvE and PvP, which is pretty damn sweet.


And it's warhammer, which is so damn cool.

[Storm Rider]

I think that the whole "cutting 4 classes" thing needs to be put in perspective, because there are still 20 classes left even after they cut those 4, which is much more than most MMOs.

[Leinad]

Yeah, that right there is seriously ridiculous. I mean, WoW only has 9, right?

[McTaggart]

I may or may not be playing it, depending on my friends. I don't really hold out much hope for it since a pvp game where there is no real death penalty just isn't worthwhile. If there's no real way to stop your enemy coming back to the fight for any real timespan You end up basically having to grief people out of a fight or rely on some silly game mechanics that I dunno, lock people out of the area or something. I haven't played the beta, but the silly zerging that is apparently an issue (and for me at least would be a gamebreaking one) doesn't look like it'll be going away.

If I do play, it'll be a long range, high alpha glass cannon type class or whichever class can make people commit to a fight or keep people out of one.

[MadassAlex]

I can't be fucked paying monthly fees, fuck that shit.

Plus, I've been following this shit since the original developers were doing it. I liked it the whole concept better back then.

[Statik]

They cut the classes for functionality, not gameplay balance.

I'm currently in the beta, and as it stands right now, Ill be playing on launch day.

[SimpsonsParadox]

WoW has 9, and it's pretty much a nightmare to balance them. I can't imagine having 20.

As for comparisons with WoW, I think they're quite apt. WoW is a PvE/PvP game. To be good at PvE you need to PvP some (To varying degrees depending on your class); to be good at PvP you need to PvE some (lol heroic tokens). WAR looks to be about exactly the same: A PvP centric game with PvE, and to be good in either you have to do some of both. The player base is going to be relatively the same (A joke on the WoW forums goes something like "I'm a WoW addict: I'm *W*aiting *O*n *W*arhammer *bum bum che*") and there's probably going to be a large amount of crossover.

My bad on the reasons for cutting the classes, but my point still stands: with 20 classes *AND* a PvP centric game environment, game balance is going to be a pain at best.

[McTaggart]

Depends really, if the typical fight is one between a large number of people and it is effort to re-spec or re-roll you've got a lot more room for error in your balancing than if it's all two or three a side and re-speccing is easy. It's harder to just switch up to the flavour of the month and indivual differences are relatively less important compared to your gang structure and your strategies.

[Leinad]

WoW has 9, and it's pretty much a nightmare to balance them. I can't imagine having 20.

As for comparisons with WoW, I think they're quite apt. WoW is a PvE/PvP game. To be good at PvE you need to PvP some (To

You know, I cannot understand how people could be so WRONG. Some PvP gear is nice to have for PvE, but if you just PvE alot you are going to find gear that is just so much better than the PvP stuff FOR PvE. I mean, as a tank I would wear a little bit of PvP stuff because of the ridiculous amounts of stamina, but that all got replaced by actual tanking stuff. And seriously, do not try DPSing in all Arena gear, it is stupid as hell. This goes for any class, because there are stats in PvE that are WAY more important than they are in PvP, and this is reflected in the gear.

[SimpsonsParadox]

To be good at PvE you need to PvP some (To varying degrees depending on your class)

This made me curious. What classes do you need to PvP with to excel at in PvE? I've played rogue, mage, warrior (tank) and priest (holy and shadow) at top level, I played mage and warrior competently, was praised for my priest skills and kicked everyone's ass at DPS as a rogue (while not requiring any more healing than the other melee DPS). I've never PvP'd to any extent with any of the classes, bar the week I obsessively spammed SS in battlegrounds to get my gladiator mace.

Right off the top of my head, weapons. Coming from someone who played in a somewhat hardcore guild, you really couldn't wait for drops to go your way. If your guild wanted to progress farther into the content, you PvP'd for your weapons and then replaced them once you got the PvE drops. You didn't have to PvP; it was just more beneficial to the guild and to your raid spot to grind out the S1 (And then S2) weapons.

Also, upon a bit of reflection, our mage tanks on HKM always bitched about how much PvP they had to do to get good stamina mage armor. And a tankadin weapon. Nothing could beat the spellpower mace in early raid game (before ZA).

Sorry I didn't make that clearer.

And Leinad, as a tank I'm surprised you took any PvP stuff. And of course you don't PvE in pure PvP gear; thus why I said PvP *SOME*. You didn't need to wear everything PvP, but when you start to raid getting at least the PvP weapons is a great boon.

[Melodic]

This thread is so terribly lame, it should be in the Comics & Drawing forum for sheer lack of quality content.

[Leinad]

Thank you Melodic, come again soon!

As for taking some PvP gear as tank, it rocks! As a warrior you really should take some because you can replace your Defence Rating with Resilience because they still stack to make you uncritable, and then shield block is still what makes you uncrushable. Plus the PvP gear has a LOT of stamina, and helps with your threat generation a lot, which is important to a fast clear with a hardcore guild. But it eventually all got replaced, and I didn't technically need it, it just helped me stay the main tank for my raid group, and meant I was always above the threshold so no one could criticize me as an officer.

[Leinad]

So why are you posting here? I mean really, anyone who is going to agree with you shouldn't post here, because you would add exponentially to any negative factor of this thread. If you don't like a thread stop posting and see if it dies.

[SimpsonsParadox]

I will admit to only having played WoW As for WAR, if it turns out well (See: Last several posts), then I really really really want to try out the Bright Mage or Fire Mage or whatever it was called. I saw it a while ago on a preview and it basically said that if you die you do some great explosion and damage people around you. That would be amazingly fun class to play *and* die with.

[Leinad]

Well, see, I think WAR is interesting but this thread keeps blabbering about how the PvP isn't World of Warcraft/is too much like World of Warcraft, based on opinions by people who by all indications have only played one MMORPG before - World of Warcraft! So let's turn the thread around and talk about Warhammer, shall we?

Besides, we already had a WAR thread.

Yeah, that is true, but that is because the entire identity of WAR is going to be compared to WoW until it comes out, just because, at the moment, WoW defines MMORPGs. So right now that is the real question.

Also, I happened to mention that thread in the originial post, and it is almost a year old... which I also said in my original post. It didn't go anywhere and there is a lot more info available now.

[Leinad]

11 million subscribers and the most mainstream MMORPG in existence? I think so, but it is further shown that people CANNOT stop comparing games to WoW on this forum, as well as many others. In the end WoW is like a bowling ball on a trampoline. It is not the end all be all, but everything rolls towards it anyways.

Also: I will be playing a Black Orc or Chaos Warrior because I have played Empire in the tabletop game my whole gaming career. And when I played WoW I played a Human Warrior. So it is definitely time for a change.

[est]

I am tentatively excited about WAR.  There is great potential for it to be a really decent, dark MMORPG.  There is also a lot of potential for it to suck.

[est]

Also, it's not so much that you are comparing WAR to WoW it is that you are debating WoW shit in a WAR thread.  Go over to the fucking WoW thread to debate this shit.  As a matter of fact, lemme give you my thoughts on using PvP rewards gear over there.

[Leinad]

In all fairness the reason we ARE talking about WoW stuff in the WAR thread is that someone mentioned that you DID have to PvP in oder to be good at PvE and I was disagreeing, and how we got there was by trying to define WAR as different from WoW. So, I feel, it was pertinent.

[Ozymandias]

I think a MMORPG can separate itself from WoW. No one compares EVE to WOW, because they're just not relatable.

Of course, Warhammer has a really, really, really hard time separating itself from Warcraft since, uh, Warcraft 1 was supposed to be a Warhammer game. Then Games Workshop decided they didn't want to have a PC game, so Blizzard spun it off into their own, strikingly similar mythology, became ridiculously successful, and now Games Workshop is playing catch-up.

[est]

So did Blizz pay GW for the use of WH:FB and WH:40K IP or did they build pretty much their complete games empire on stolen ideas?

[Ozymandias]

The latter, I believe.

I honestly don't know if GW ever tried to stop them. Seems like they would've tried for some sort of compensation considering the blatant similarities between both Warcraft and Starcraft's mythologies to the two Warhammer mythologies.

[est]

I just did a bit of googling (because wiki is mysteriously devoid of info on this) and found a few references to Blizzard settling with them quietly at some point in the past.  Of course, I a sure that they are kicking themselves now for whatever paltry amount they settled for.

I agree with one article I found though that they are both based on other source materials, and that it's been so long/so much other work done on the Warcraft universe that it is a legitimate game in its own right by now.  Hopefully they will go the same way with the Starcraft universe, too.

[Ozymandias]

Oh, I totally agree with that.

The Warcraft universe has expanded far away from the original Warhammer setting, mostly thanks to Warcraft 3.

I'm just saying, it's kind of a ridiculously bad spot for GW, now that they're going to have to compete with the people who basically stole their idea and are doing way better with it.

[Trollstormur]

Mythic's last major MMORPG has 45 classes, so i don't think balance will be much of an issue, they're clearly very experienced in this regard.


edit: that's not counting the 12ish "starter" classes that you grow out of at level 10 or 15. i don't recall which.

[Leinad]

To be honest I enjoy the Warhammer background and story a lot more than the WoW one, but the differences are not, admittedly, huge. It may suck to be living in the shadow of WoW a bit, but I think they tackled this nicely by making the end-game mechanic decidedly different than WoW, and I think the different fluff of Warhammer plus the different end-game content will make it very popular, or at least extremely awesome to me.

[A Wet Helmet]

I've been in beta for quite some time.  Now that the NDA is dropped, I think the game is ok.

That's it.  Just ok.  I wanted to love it, I really did.  But I don't.  Is it better than WoW?  That depends on if you prefer PvP or PvE. 


This thing is going to be like an MMO version of Counterstrike for me.  I'm going to have an hour to kill, I'll log in, run to to an RvR zone and fight.  When I log off, I'll be done.   It doesn't compel me to play.  Honestly, the beta forums are more fun than the game, in my opinion.

[Covetous]

The amount of game performance I get out of this game compared to my rig is silly. I had max setting in wow and still had better FPS in shat (on a very hight pop server) then I do standing still looking in to a wall with low setting in WAR. Plain silly. The PQs are nice, allthough somewhat unfari. Several times I have just come in to a PQ in the last part, healed some, done some damage and came like second on the rolls.

It is nice and it is not WoW. But they sure as hell have to fix the performance soon. I will probably miss the PvE content that was i WoW but I hope that RvR in big guild groups can compensate. The PvP and RvR is way much better. It really feels like you are two big factions in war with eachother insted of alot of bar brawlers.

I would say that functionallity and concept wise WAR is a more fun game than WoW, but WoW is so much more polished and have had quite a bit more programmer experience behind it so performance wise it is much better.

(Comparing to WoW sins that the only other MMORPG I've played.)

[Ozymandias]

I've been watching my coworker play this at work.

It looks so good.

So good.

[Melodic]

Comparing rig performance against WoW is downright ridiculous, especially for the number of times you mentioned it in your post. World of Warcraft is a 3 year-old game with 4 year-old technology and 6 year-old graphics: of COURSE it's going to run well by today's standards. Using WoW as a measuring block for new games in terms of pretty much anything, but graphics in particular, is naive.

[/rant]

[Spluff]

To be fair, WAR's graphics are rather dated.

[Covetous]

Comparing rig performance against WoW is downright ridiculous, especially for the number of times you mentioned it in your post. World of Warcraft is a 3 year-old game with 4 year-old technology and 6 year-old graphics: of COURSE it's going to run well by today's standards. Using WoW as a measuring block for new games in terms of pretty much anything, but graphics in particular, is naive.

[/rant]

The comparison is valid sins quite alot of people have experience from WoW and therefor might for example see if their computer have the juice or not. I was not saying WAR should be WoW.

[maxusy3k]

My mother says it's great and keeps trying to encourage me to try it, but I'm not sure. It's ugly as hell, for sure... while my system could probably handle it slightly better than hers can I think I've been spoilt by WoW's whole 'cheap and cheerful' approach. I don't exactly have much time these days either and while getting into a new MMO as a casual could be a good experience for me, I feel like I'd be trying to give it more time than I really have.

Plus I don't know. I don't want to tell people I only started playing because my mother recommended it me?

[lief]

I've played a lot of online games, it seems to just be a bastard child between WoW and Everquest to me.

[Covetous]

Well, even a bastard can be king during the right cirkumstanses.

[carrotosaurus]

The RvR and classes and a lot of other details are very reminiscent of Dark Age of Camelot, which I played a lot. It seems like they trimmed out everything I hated about that game and replaced it with awesome. Mythic is also very good about patching, listening to the nerdrage cries of scorned players, and overall making a better game, so I have faith that it will only get better. It's been almost a week and I'm already level 13. Also, my guild is pretty badass if anyone wants to play on Middenheim.

As for the PvE - yes, it's a little bit more limited than WoW but I think the quest system is pretty cool - you're not really grinding as much as other MMOs, you're more running around and doing quests every five seconds, and the XP bonuses on the quests are worth it. Every monster type does seem to be confined to a very small area, so the worlds don't seem nearly as big (and they're not) but it works. But guys, the public quest system is fantastic. It's the best thing about this game.

The only two nitpicks I have so far are that the graphics are very dated, and the character creation is absolutely minimal. I'm also kind of ticked there's no tank class for Empire, but the Warrior Priest is hella nice and can kind of tank so that makes up for it.

I'm not seeing any problems with performance - what's everyone complaining about? I'm running a modest $1,000 HP laptop with Vista on it. It doesn't look as pretty as WoW, but it doesn't look as childish, either. And maybe it's just my internal Warhammer nerd here, but the monster designs are really faithful.

[lief]

Well, even a bastard can be king during the right cirkumstanses.

Touche, In all honesty though, it may just not be the game for me, everyone else I know seems to love it and the computer I was playing on has been frustratingly crappy lately. But I'm a WoW fan boy (to a degree) and after playing WAR I have to say I enjoy WoW more.

[Jepser]

Once they make a 40,000 MMO, I'll be their fan.

[David_Dovey]

[ElectricPez]

I am a big fan of WAR. The RvR is more drawn out than WoW, but it is still fun. Their classes are cooler in my opinion, and they have this sort of dark humor that is very appealing to one such as myself. Things take more time to die, yet I still find myself liking this much more than any other MMORPG I have ever played.


P.S. if they make a 40,000 game, I am so going for the Nekrons!

[Jepser]

http://www.thq-games.com/uk/thqtv/index/1523
=D =D =D
I am so going to buy this when it comes out.
Not an MMO, but still. I'm gonna play Tyranids. ^^

[Boro_Bandito]

I would totally get WAR if I thought my computer could run it, but a laptop with an integrated graphics card does not stand much of a chance does it?

[Boro_Bandito]

Damn. And to think I've been waiting for this game ever since it was originally licensed to another company to create.