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[benji]

biologically speaking, girls can have children as soon as they get their first period but we look down on that because it's from a social standpoint that it isn't seen as acceptable.

There are actually medical reasons to look down on it as well. If a girl gets pregnant before she stops growing, medical problems can result for both mother and child. While it's true that, historically, women got married and started having children at a very young age, they also died in child birth at a very young age at a rather atrocious rate.

P.S. to clarify: the young age was not the only cause of the high rate of women dieing in labor, but was probably one of them.

[KvP]

Where the law is concerned the age of consent isn't entirely arbitrary, but I think (and I could be wrong) what SWM was getting at are the rather famous cases where, say, a senior in high school gets thrown in jail for having sex with his freshman / sophomore girlfriend, and the like. It's when you try and justify the legality of a 17 year old being allowed to fuck a 20 year old but not a 21 year old (to use numbers I just made up on the spot) where it becomes really tricky.

And I mean sure, lots of responsibilities are given at 18 along with the right to have sex at your whim, that's a valid point, but still, when you compare a fresh 18 year old with a 17-year-and-364-day old and say one can have a certain right and the other can't based on their age, you can't say it's not arbitrary. But I think that's something we can all agree upon anyway.

Not only that, but how fair is it to the baby being born if their mother is 14 and has nowhere near the resources and/or maturity to raise said child?

Ehh... Tricky, tricky. Yours is an understandable sentiment, but watch out for that viscous incline o'er yonder (god, what the fuck is wrong with me today?) The age of the mother is certainly an element, but remember that age and maturity are not necessarily connected. Some teens would probably make better mothers than some 30-somethings. And if we're talking about what's fair to the baby, should we say that the poor should not procreate? Then we're sterilizing the lower classes just like in the 30's and OH MY GOD WILLY NILLY EVERYWHERE. Seriously though, given support by parents or grandparents or the community or the like a young mother should be as well equipped as anybody to raise a child. Prospects for the future may be less than optimal but fuck, when is anything in life ever optimal?

[tania]

the problem comes from the fact that you do, i think, have to draw the line somewhere, but then as soon as you draw one it'll always be "well... what if they were just a little bit younger?" it's frustrating but i do still think it's better than no line.
the age of consent in canada before 2006 was 14 and i am still not sure if this is better or worse than 16. i think 18 is a fucking ridiculous age but that might just be me.

[jhocking]

It doesn't need to be a line. It can be a gradual ramping up. Like, at 16 you can have a little sex, at 17 you can have a little more, and by 18 you can have sex as much as you want.

Or maybe it can be like a learner's permit for driving. At 16 you can have sex with 18 year olds but not other 16 year olds (ie. learners.)

[SimpsonsParadox]

How would you reasonably enforce that? For example: What is a 'little' sex? Who gets to define what number and what (To be crude) positions you get to do with each incremental year? Liberals? Pedophiles? Born Again Christians? Not to mention, you're still describing a line. Who says a 16 year old and 360 days is less mature than a 17 year old and 10 days? Its highly impractical and morally questionable.

[Cire27]

Its highly impractical and morally questionable.

Somewhere along the line you didn't get the joke.

[0bsessions]

New plan:

At sixteen, you can have all the sex you want, but you have to put up with a sweaty, fat guy watching you every time to make sure you're wearing a rubber.

Problem solved. No need to thank me, folks, just pay it forward.

[0bsessions]

For the record, in my new regime, these are the dudes who will watch teenagers having sex:

[tania]

man i saw a bitstrips comic in my campus newspaper a little while ago and almost lost it. the person had just used the website to make an innocent comic about submitting to the newspaper or something but those initial few seconds were really shocking. i think this site has been permanently ruined for me.

[Emaline]

I am probably echoing everyone here, but I am slightly drunk and don't really care.




Dude, you shouldn't have posted this on a web forum. You really shouldn't have posted it on a forum you only have like 20 posts on.

Don't ask ladies out over im. Period.

Next time you see her, ask her out again. In person.

[negative creep]

Or maybe it can be like a learner's permit for driving. At 16 you can have sex with 18 year olds but not other 16 year olds (ie. learners.)

I think in Germany it is that if you are under 16 you can only have sex with people under 21.

[ampersandwitch]

the discussion of the uses of the term slut

It gets around.

[SimpsonsParadox]

Its highly impractical and morally questionable.

Somewhere along the line you didn't get the joke.

I didn't. If that was a joke, my bad.

[jhocking]

I was being deadly serious. For enforcement, I'm thinking a special pedometer that counts your thrusts; too many, and it tasers you.

[ForteBass]

too few and it laughs at you

[est]

pedometer

haw haw.

Part of me wants to admonish some of the regulars for being asses to the OP but I dunno, I really don't want to encourage more threads like this.  On the one hand the OP is pretty young and doesn't know any better, but on the other

omg
this type of shit
is like,
really annoying?

So yeah:  Dilemma!

Four pages in and I am almost certain that the OP doesn't care any more, but to answer your original question you should try as much as possible to behave toward her much as you usually would.  You two don't have to start snoggin' and such until you're comfortable with it, just talk to her and spend time with her and get comfortable with her.  She probably ignored you because she's in the same boat as you right now - she doesn't know what the hell is going on or what to do either.  Just be cool and hang out with her and act normal as possible and show her that you guys are still friends.

Also, the relatively new people who are jumping on bandwagons and/or getting all huffy and/or trying to be funny and just generally being dumbcunts in this thread should probably steer clear of the next one of these.  Usually when these kinds of threads happen popping your head up to add some form of a "haha, yeah man" post serves no purpose other than to aggravate the locals, and joining in any kind of fracas will generally get you added to a watch-list (ie: mine) for abusive/aggressive posting, so on the whole it's not really a good idea.

[IronOxide]

Or maybe it can be like a learner's permit for driving. At 16 you can have sex with 18 year olds but not other 16 year olds (ie. learners.)

I think in Germany it is that if you are under 16 you can only have sex with people under 21.

I don't know about other states, but that's pretty much how it happens in New York

    * Sex with a person under 17 is a misdemeanor if the perpetrator is at least 16 (see infra). (“Sexual misconduct,” NY Penal Law § 130.20.)

    * Sex with a person under 17 is a Class “E” felony if the perpetrator is at least 21. (“Rape in the third degree,” NY Penal Law § 130.25; “Criminal sexual act in the third degree,” NY Penal Law § 130.40.)

    * Sex with a person under 15 is a Class “D” felony if the perpetrator is at least 18. However, it is a defense to this charge if an 18 year-old perpetrator proves by a preponderance that he or she was less than four years older than the victim. This is not a defense to any other charge that might apply, i.e., Sexual misconduct, supra. (“Rape in the second degree,” NY Penal Law § 130.30; “Criminal sexual act in the second degree,” NY Penal Law § 130.45.)

    * Sex with a person under 13 is a Class “B” violent felony if the perpetrator is at least 18. (“Rape in the first degree,” NY Penal Law § 130.35[4]; “Criminal sexual act in the first degree,” NY Penal Law § 130.50[4].)

    * Sex with a person under 11 is a Class “B” violent felony if the perpetrator is at least 16. (“Rape in the first degree,” NY Penal Law § 130.35[3]; “Criminal sexual act in the first degree,” NY Penal Law § 130.50[3].)

"Sex," as used above, refers to the four conspicuous types of sexual acts, including "sexual intercourse", and the three forms of acts known as "deviant sexual intercourse" under the former (pre-2003) law, now called "oral sexual conduct" (both types), and "anal sexual conduct."

Non-intercourse sexual activity is also regulated based on age. Non-intercourse sexual activity, called "sexual contact" is defined as "any touching of the sexual or other intimate parts of a person not married to the actor for the purpose of gratifying sexual desire of either party. It includes the touching of the actor by the victim, as well as the touching of the victim by the actor, whether directly or through clothing." (NY Penal Law § 130.00[3].) If the person is underage such "sexual contact" can constitute the crime of "sexual abuse."

    * "Sexual contact" with a person less than 17 but at least 14, by a perpetrator who is at least five years older than the victim is "Sexual abuse in the third degree," a class B misdemeanor. (NY Penal Law § 130.55.)

    * "Sexual contact" with a person less than 14 is "Sexual abuse in the second degree," a Class A misdemeanor, if the perpetrator is at least 16. (NY Penal Law § 130.60[2].)

    * "Sexual contact" with a person less than 11 is "Sexual abuse in the first degree," a class "D" violent felony, if the perpetrator is at least 16. (NY Penal Law § 130.65[3].)

It's a graduated scale based upon the age of the person committing the act, and I feel that the system is more or less fair and enforced in an appropriate manner. I mean, the first law is hardly ever enforced, but the other ones are pretty strict, and I'm okay with that.

Reading the rest of the article, it is a bit more vast than the other states, but it is a sliding scale that I am comfortable with.

[RallyMonkey]

When it comes to dating in middle school/high school, I'd say the most important thing is to forget about the title. Dating is exactly that, going on dates. Asking someone to be your girlfriend is not the route to take. Ask her out, take her to dinner (Movies are a bad idea for a first date, you sit in the dark for 2 hours, not talking to eachother.) Then hang out with her in a more formal situation. Just get to know the girl. Then, when you get more comfortable with eachother, things will advance. Eventually, you will work your way into the title of boyfriend and girlfriend, but that's not what's important. What's important is the relationship.

As soon as you want a significant other for the emotional benefits of having someone that close, that's when you should get one. Not when you just want to be able to say you have a girlfriend.

[J-cob9000]

pedometer

haw haw.

Part of me wants to admonish some of the regulars for being asses to the OP
Ch'yeah, report'em to the police for pedophilia. Seriously. Just take some of their posts be like, "hey, look." xD
j/k
mostly.
but I dunno, I really don't want to encourage more threads like this.  On the one hand the OP is pretty young and doesn't know any better, but on the other
Actually, i'm pretty net savvy and figured this kind of shit would happen on somewhere like 4chan. But i was like, hey these people are older, they're 'mature'. Guess I was wrong.

omg
this type of shit
is like,
really annoying?

So yeah:  Dilemma!

Four pages in and I am almost certain that the OP doesn't care any more,
You think?
but to answer your original question you should try as much as possible to behave toward her much as you usually would.  You two don't have to start snoggin' and such until you're comfortable with it, just talk to her and spend time with her and get comfortable with her.  She probably ignored you because she's in the same boat as you right now - she doesn't know what the hell is going on or what to do either.  Just be cool and hang out with her and act normal as possible and show her that you guys are still friends.
Pretty much what I'm doing. Just being myself mostly. I complimented her twice today. <3. Sorry, corny there.

Also, the relatively new people who are jumping on bandwagons and/or getting all huffy and/or trying to be funny and just generally being dumbcunts in this thread should probably steer clear of the next one of these.  Usually when these kinds of threads happen popping your head up to add some form of a "haha, yeah man" post serves no purpose other than to aggravate the locals, and joining in any kind of fracas will generally get you added to a watch-list (ie: mine) for abusive/aggressive posting, so on the whole it's not really a good idea.

answers in bold.

and rallymonkey, we don't call ourselves boyfriend and girlfriend or do we say that we are 'dating', we're just close friends that, as the middle/high school term goes, 'like' each other.
so yeah.

[jhocking]

Four pages in and I am almost certain that the OP doesn't care any more,
You think?

I've seen this over and over in many contexts, but it's always the same. If you really don't care, then why are you still arguing?

The best is when someone posts "this is my last post" half a dozen times in one thread.




ADDITION: oh wait I didn't even notice

i'm going to leave now

sweet

[J-cob9000]

Four pages in and I am almost certain that the OP doesn't care any more,
You think?

I've seen this over and over in many contexts, but it's always the same. If you really don't care, then why are you still arguing?

The best is when someone posts "this is my last post" half a dozen times in one thread.

I wasn't arguing, i was agreeing.
but still. i really don't.

[benji]

I don't know about other states, but that's pretty much how it happens in New York

I think it was similar in New Jersey, where I spent my teen years. During some assembly a police officer explained it to us. It was something like at 16, you can have sex with anyone up to 4 years older then yourself. So at 16, they can be as old as 20, at 17 they can be up to 21, and at 18 your fair game.

In the states, we usually just say 18 because by 18 you can have sex legally no matter what state your in and no matter how much older your partner is. But other then that it's all over the place. I believe one of the southern states has consent as "13 or older if you're married, 18 or older otherwise."

[est]

So married people can fuck as many way young kids as they want?  Score!

Anyway, I don't know how sex ed works where-ever you guys live, but in Australia once we turn 16 a government strippergram shows up at our doorstep to educate the hell out of us.

[Edith]

Ok, are we done making fun of children yet? I was hoping to move on to making suggestive comments at old ladies before dinner.

Damn, I already had dinner. Maybe tomorrow you can make some suggestive comments at me before lunch, though.

[laurniedoll]

D'aw, everybody gives the boy a tough time. Original poster: You probably don't care anymore, but I might actually be qualified to answer this as a female around your age, though the advice is generic:
Be yourself
Respect your ladyfriend
And someone else said it, but try not to act too different from how you used to. There's a reason you were friends for a year beforehand.

If you were looking for options as to what you could do together, I live in a town where there's not much of anything and I can't drive either, so all I got is (getting rides to) movies and getting coffee. There's always hanging out at each others' houses and doing stuff with mutual friends, too. Or just spend all your time snogging. Or, uh, ask her what she wants to do? That usually works.

[RobbieOC]

Early on I set my age limit at around 14.

Any older and it's just weird.

[Cartilage Head]

 That depends on how old you are, really.

[Hairy Joe Bob]

This thread is fucking great. 4 pages in 2 days! We had teenagers, nerds, sex talk, really this thread needs a fucking award for simultaneously being both brilliant, and the worst idea and thread ever.

[StaedlerMars]

No. You can flip them over and pretend they are a twelve year old boy.

You hear about why the ancient greeks kept little slave boys?

I've always thought that the rule 'your age, divided by two, plus eight' is a pretty reasonable estimate of what is admissible. I mean sure you get the 40 year old with a 28 year old, but that isn't that weird.

Also, how did I miss out on this thread?

[StMonkey]

Q:You hear about why the ancient greeks kept little slave boys?

A:I've always thought that the rule 'your age, divided by two, plus eight' is a pretty reasonable estimate of what is admissible. I mean sure you get the 40 year old with a 28 year old, but that isn't that weird.

Also, how did I miss out on this thread?

bold added and quoted for emphasis

..... I don't get it

[clockworkjames]

Kill yourse-

Did I miss the helping bit?

[0bsessions]

It gets around.

So does Tommy. Because he is a slut. Get it? It's topical humor!

Part of me wants to admonish some of the regulars for being asses to the OP but I dunno, I really don't want to encourage more threads like this.  On the one hand the OP is pretty young and doesn't know any better, but on the other

See, I find this to be the primary redeeming factor of this thread. It opens up for a good debate (Albeit, completely unintentionally, obviously):

We are really not a very "old" forum, despite the jokes. Sure, we have a couple people in their thirties and then a couple guys in their sixties, then a series of a few dozen mid-twenties folks who contribute routinely, but by and large, this place is mostly teenagers. We all know Sam and Ruyi and Clobs. They're all in the sixteen year old age bracket by my last check.

Basically where I'm going with this is that age is no excuse for being a tit. Some of our best quality posters are in this kid's age bracket and you know what? The good teens are far from the exception to the rule. Believe it or not, I was actually quite personable at that age (I didn't have a lot of friends, so I tried to avoid pissing people off) and I've known tons of people who were as well.

My first real social online experience was via AOL chat rooms and message boards, primarily comic book related (When I was thirteen).  Most of the other people I knew ran from my age to as old as late twenties and the teenagers were all well spoken and reasonable.

Due to my experience online over the last eleven years, I've learned that there is no reason to cut anyone any slack just because they're a teenager. Maybe if he were like nine, but by the time you're fourteen, you should have a basic grasp of societal norms, how to handle yourself in a social environment and basic cause and effect. Mollycoddling teenagers who act out and do stupid things is only going to result in them continuing their idiotic behavior. Were some of us overly harsh? Perhaps, but even some of the people who tried to be nice have admitted that this kid probably wasn't going to fit in here anyway. Now maybe he'll shape up for the next forum he frequents.

Sure, we may have metaphorically brought a gun to a knife fight, but people need to learn this shit. Imagine if this kid did this in a real life situation. Can you imagine, at fourteen, popping into a bar and asking all the dudes there for relationship advice? It probably would not go all that well.

[blanktom]

I am just wondering why nobody offered this young lad the age old solution;



REVERB!

[StaedlerMars]

Q:You hear about why the ancient greeks kept little slave boys?

A:I've always thought that the rule 'your age, divided by two, plus eight' is a pretty reasonable estimate of what is admissible. I mean sure you get the 40 year old with a 28 year old, but that isn't that weird.

Also, how did I miss out on this thread?

bold added and quoted for emphasis

..... I don't get it

they weren't question and answer. The ancient greeks kept little boys because they looked like little girls/ vice verca. it was a response to ptommydski's joke about twelve year old girls.

the other part was what I thought the general rule for appropriate sex was.

[Edith]

Cake is clearly better than pie, unless it's meat pie, or the cake is really dry.

[Aimless]

It may be rude of me to have skipped over the last three pages of this thread, but I'm hoping one of you will be able to see past that and answer a question for me: what's with this whole "omglol u asked the internet epic fail" attitude?

A forum strikes me as a great place to ask about this sorta thing. I mean, if you're fourteen and would like relationship advice, who do you think you'd be better off asking? Your peers (those few you can have a convo about this sorta thing with, that is) or a forum frequented by [presumably intelligent and thoughtful!] people of different ages, different backgrounds and different experiences? Where everyone has the added advantages of anonymity and the opportunity to think about what they say and how they say it?

Come on. Option 2 is a pretty sensible choice if you ask me.

I'd sorta understand the scorn and derision if it were about socialising on the internet, but the OP didn't seem to be about socialising so much as about getting some sorta useful input (which might be the exact opposite of socialising ).

Okay I'm done. Should I read the rest of the thread now???

[0bsessions]

He was looking for useful input from people he doesn't know. Where's the sense in that?

Wouldn't you find it kind of dumb if I posted my first ever post in this end of the forums with a new thread saying "Guys, I got a girl pregnant and she's not willing to abort. What should I do?!"

[Aimless]

I'd be far more interested in the question than in who was asking it! But mostly because I've wondered about that myself.

Fear of that scenario is like the one thing that can balance my irrepressible urge to engage in sexual shenanigans all over the world!

But, with that said, I must admit that I don't really understand why you have to _know_ someone to be able to give them a respectful if not helpful response (or to ask them for it). And, furthermore, I'm not sure if the example you gave is really comparable to the OP!

I do recognise that knowing who you're talking to seems to be very important to many (most?) posters on this forum.

[0bsessions]

It's a matter of it being a relatively personal question. You don't walk into a bar and start asking random patrons for relationship advice, why would you wander into a close knit forum and do the same?

[Aimless]

But I thought it was established earlier in this thread that an internet forum isn't all that much like a real life bar

However, having personal conversations with strangers at bars, parties, etc isn't all that unusual in my experience. Or all that awful, as long as all parties have the option of getting out of the convo whenever they like.

And tbh, the only person giving out any private info is the person doing the asking!

EDIT: What I'm getting from your posts is that to many of you this is about propriety, etiquette, unwritten rules of socialising, that sort of thing. I can understand that aspect of it, I just don't understand why anyone should be so keen on those unwritten rules as to be an ass to a stranger!

[Scrambled Egg Machine]

Still, do we know that this is the better of the possible threads?

[Aimless]

I've been acting like a dick in this thread because if we actually start giving advice to teenagers about shit they can figure out on their own then it will never, ever stop. I've seen it ruin forums before, it's not pretty and I don't want it happening to QC.

Our experiences differ, in that respect. In the years I've spent on various forums, both smaller and larger than this one, I have never seen a forum be ruined by people doing things like giving relationship advice. All those forums are still thriving! The few forums I've seen be ruined have instead been ruined by groupthink. Mostly the element of hostility towards newcomers

So where does that leave us? I can't dismiss your experiences out of hand but you can't dismiss mine either.

Okay so it may be incredibly annoying for this particular forum to have to weather a storm of relationship threads from strangers, I get that.

EDIT: Yeah, the first responses set the tone for the rest of the discussion here, which I think is a shame. Makes things hella unpredictable and thus scary.

(sorry guys, I haven't mastered sharp internet wit yet )

[Scrambled Egg Machine]

Oh, Jesus.

[monkeybiz]

My advice: don't ask the internet. Just do stuff. Usually by your 4th or 5th girlfriend, you figure out what not to do. Like sticking it in her pooper. Most of them don't like that. Notice I said most. But you've got another 4-10 years to figure that out.

On a side note, you will have achieved true wisdom when you are finally able to go "I don't know shit all about women" and be comfortable with it. Anyone that says otherwise is wrong or a liar.

[0bsessions]

Depends on what you want from an internet forum. Probably a good chunk of people would have loved it if Kieffer had been here for the first post. Or maybe Chuck.

I imagine the thread wouldn't have lasted more than half a page if Chuck got to it first. I'd bet he'd just respond along the lines of "No. Fuck this thread" and that would've been the end of it before Est came along and locked it for uglying up the front page.

[jhocking]

Personally, I have no problem with someone asking a question like this on an internet forum. I find jon's argument that a person asking this question in a public forum should be prepared for scorn rather disingenuous, since he's the main one heaping on scorn.

My main beef with the OP has nothing to do with the question, it's the fact that following the question his posts conveyed a rather shitty personality. As in, I have no problem with the question, I have a problem with him.

For reference, if you skim over the first page again, note that it isn't until halfway down that I decided I don't like the guy. Prior to that, I was actually defending him.

[Edith]

 I'll post the thread once I've got a few tentative positives from the people I want to answer the questions.

Yeah, I'm in. Like, tentatively. You know.

[Aimless]

My main beef with the OP has nothing to do with the question, it's the fact that following the question his posts conveyed a rather shitty personality. As in, I have no problem with the question, I have a problem with him.

Well yeah, but it's not exactly a surprising reaction when you treat a kid like that, esp. not on a forum! I prefer to see how a person can be at his best (or at least not at his worst) before passing judgement. Can you imagine how a stranger would judge some of your friends here on QC if they only had this kind of thread to go on??

I don't like him - not because he's a newbie or because he's young, but because he seems ignorant, calls things "gay" with negative connotations and just doesn't seem to actually contribute with anything. I know that is an asshole thing to say, but read through his older posts and compare to, say, Ally's or Sam's or Liz's, and decide for yourself who you'd want to stick around.

And that's another thing I tend to avoid, irl as well as on forums!

If it were up to some people, I wouldn't have stuck around on QC for very long either :p

I don't expect anyone to go out of their way to defend someone who actively hurts or antagonises others without provocation, but I think it's good to try to turn a bad convo into a better one. Okay so he's an obnoxious kid--does that mean that we can't engage him? Teach him better posting, over time?

Although I suppose it would be preferable if the arrival and integration of a newcomer never required any effort on the part of the community.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

in Joe's defense, the kid really is sort of a douche.

he came into some other thread a few weeks ago, i believe, and immediately said something like "i'm fourteen. i'm awesome" and everyon was kind of like "...okay. whatever." and then he started acting like a jerk because...i don't know...we didn't instantly approve of him? it was ridiculous, anways.

from what i've seen so far, that's just how he is and we can't be held responsible.




also, he might even be a very subtle and slow-working troll. i'm not really sure.
 

[StaedlerMars]

Guys, this thread was turning in a very interesting direction when Tommydski started talking about internet philosophy and the direction threads can take depending on who gets the first post.

I wish I could philosophize enough to push it further in that direction, because well, I thought it was very interesting. As far as I'm aware, most threads that are declared 'awesome' by one of the long time members through out the thread, are usually threads that are hijacked at one point or another, and often are the result of some ridiculous statement, or some assholery.

Sadly, this discussion wasn't pushed, and we are now again laying blame and defending people because of /for their actions.

PS. Tommy, I think that's an excellent idea for a thread. That along with the blog thread should probably keep those help! threads limited to one place.