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[MC]

I think Jeph is on to something in the news post.

ok fact number 1: [most] girls are attracted to guys

fact number 2: guys are guys

therefore any straight guy who has trouble approaching girls is not secure in his masculinity. Will is not secure in his masculinity.

ok that's all from me today 

[benji]

I think Jeph's referring to why Sven owns a purple lunch box.

[tomselleck69]

logically sound from all possible angles, even after factoring in the lunchbox thing. i like the cut of your jib.

[Rocketman]

I like girls, but girls are scary. 

[mat_mantra]

Anyway I don't really see where you're going with this. I have troubles approaching girls, not because of lack of security and confidence in my masculinity, but because I don't have the slightest fucking clue what to say or do.

I concur

[tuna ketchup x]

I like girls, but girls are scary. 

1. Girls are mammals.
2. Girls fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the girl is to flip out and kill people.

Maybe there wouldn't be so many loveshy guys if they'd just realize that women are freaking human beings, just like them. We largely think the same, like to do the same things, operate exactly like you. One thing that most of us do NOT like is to be treated like aliens. Do you really think that half the world's population is terrifying? That is pretty sad. And really, just another form of misogyny. Only instead of hating women, you are placing all of us on a pedestal and assigning us all the same attributes. It's not much different from saying "all black people are scary" or "all men are rapists." Do you see now why you probably don't get many dates? Nobody likes a bigot.

Oh yeah and this goes for Anyways and mat_mantra too. God I can't stand nice guy misogyny.

[Rocketman]

Do you see now why you probably don't get many dates? Nobody likes a bigot.

Actually, I don't get many dates because I'm terrified of pretty much all casual social contact, with girls or guys.

[britMonster]

I like girls, but girls are scary. 

1. Girls are mammals.
2. Girls fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the girl is to flip out and kill people.

Maybe there wouldn't be so many loveshy guys if they'd just realize that women are freaking human beings, just like them. We largely think the same, like to do the same things, operate exactly like you. One thing that most of us do NOT like is to be treated like aliens. Do you really think that half the world's population is terrifying? That is pretty sad. And really, just another form of misogyny. Only instead of hating women, you are placing all of us on a pedestal and assigning us all the same attributes. It's not much different from saying "all black people are scary" or "all men are rapists." Do you see now why you probably don't get many dates? Nobody likes a bigot.

Oh yeah and this goes for Anyways and mat_mantra too. God I can't stand nice guy misogyny.

Isn't 2/3rds of the population female?

[Rocketman]

Isn't 2/3rds of the population female?

No... I think it's 51% female.

[benji]

It's 51% in the US. If we're talking world, I think women gain a few percentage points.

But there are lots of reasons why men find it hard to talk to women and I really don't think many of them could rightly be called "misogyny." There are plenty of people who are just shy and introverted to begin with, and you add to that the factor that you're specifically allowing another person to judge you by saying yes or no to a date, it really can be intimidating for the person doing the asking.

So if it's really easy for you, and you think an interesting guy is just being a wuss and not asking you, why don't you ask him?

[tuna ketchup x]

Isn't 2/3rds of the population female?

Is this a joke?

Anyway, my beef is that Rocketman and others said "girls are scary," not "in general I feel quite anxious around people which includes girls." Saying later on that "well I'm scared of everyone not just females," well, kinda feels like a backpedal. And yeah in my opinion it is a form of misogyny to lump all women together and ascribe a certain epithet to them (scary, gossipy, shallow, what have you). Gender is only one PART of a human being and to reduce someone to "girl" instead of seeing them as a person is kinda wrong, IMO.

There are other places to meet people (which includes the subset of "girls") besides a bar or club. Most of the really cool girls never set foot in a club; you'll catch us at the library, at a show, in a record store. And attraction is often based on mutual shared interests. So instead of "blargh! girl!" just see that PERSON as someone who, I don't know, is checking out a CD of a band you like. Talk to that person about said band. That is how connections start not with hokey pick up lines at a skeezy club.

So if it's really easy for you, and you think an interesting guy is just being a wuss and not asking you, why don't you ask him?

It's far from "easy" for me to ask people out, but I have initiated most of my dates. Of course, they were with guys who were friends first, so I already knew them and knew they were cool. So maybe you all should try making friends first, dates second. After all your SO is supposed to be your friend too (usually your BEST friend), not just the "girl you're dating." Advice from a serial monogamist.

[Border Reiver]

Yes, but the scary part is fear of rejection, and if I'm understanding Rocketman, he's not afraid of being rejected by males.

I trust that you are a healthy, well adjusted individual with no hangups and are thus able to pass judgement.

[tuna ketchup x]

I trust that you are a healthy, well adjusted individual with no hangups and are thus able to pass judgement.

Yes I am 100% perfect in every way.

"Nice guy misogyny" I actually find blatantly offensive. Because I don't have experience or knowledge about how to talk to girls, I'm a misogynist? Fuck that! I respect women and so get nervous around them because I don't know how to talk of them yet have a genetic imperative to do so, if you have a problem with that, then seriously, fuck you too.

When you respect someone too much to speak to them, that's not respect any more. It's cowardice.

And most of the lady friends I have are just as much into physical jokes as well as "male" things like video games, raunchy humor, not being "ladylike." Then again most of my platonic friends ARE guys, so, maybe it's just an abnormal crowd? Shit, I don't know. I do know that for whatever reason I don't care for most of my guy friends' girlfriends, largely because they do act too much like ladies. But yeah that's an example of how women are PEOPLE and some of us don't want that whole pedestal respect thing. We want to be treated as equals. I say fuck you to anyone who does think they deserve to be placed upon a pedestal by their preferred sex, male or female.

[tomselleck69]

my favorites are the guys who affect traditional chivalry when interacting with women

[tuna ketchup x]

I don't know what to say. That is it! I'm not crippled by fear at the prospect of going over and talking to a girl, I just don't know what to do. I am bad at small talk. That is my problem.

That's why it's important to find common ground, whether it's in music or video games or books or whatever. So that you have something to talk about. Which is also why it's a good idea to date your friends because then you can just slide into a relationship without any of that "getting to know you" crap. I am horrible with small talk which is why I suck at working and at making new friendships (I've always just kind of fallen into a scene, and then it's too late to get out), but again, talking about a book with someone, even a stranger, is a lot easier than talking about, like, the weather or her pretty dress.

[Rocketman]

So instead of "blargh! girl!" just see that PERSON as someone who, I don't know, is checking out a CD of a band you like. Talk to that person about said band. That is how connections start not with hokey pick up lines at a skeezy club.

I think you're misunderstanding (or maybe just talking generally). I can't talk to people like that, period. If a guy has a CD of a band I like, I lock up just as bad as if it's a girl with the CD.

I mentioned girls alone in my earlier post because the topic was about heterosexual guys and girls.

Yes, but the scary part is fear of rejection, and if I'm understanding Rocketman, he's not afraid of being rejected by males.

I am scared of being rejected by males, but only insofar as rejection for regular social stuff, not romantic.

And I'm scared of success, because success just means you have more invested when the rejection comes.

[tuna ketchup x]

I think you're misunderstanding (or maybe just talking generally). I can't talk to people like that, period. If a guy has a CD of a band I like, I lock up just as bad as if it's a girl with the CD..... And I'm scared of success, because success just means you have more invested when the rejection comes.

See, I can relate to this, completely. That's basically why I stick with the same people, year after year, and don't really make any new friends outside the circle even though I'd LIKE to meet people outside the circle, and have more girl friends. The trick is practice, and dare I say it, drugs (the legal kind). Socializing is hard but if you want it badly enough you have to work at it, just like you would at playing an instrument or learning the theory of relativity.

[ashashash]

I do know that for whatever reason I don't care for most of my guy friends' girlfriends, largely because they do act too much like ladies.

 

This is okay but being too socially anxious to approach strange girls isn't?

[Doug S. Machina]

I think you're misunderstanding (or maybe just talking generally). I can't talk to people like that, period. If a guy has a CD of a band I like, I lock up just as bad as if it's a girl with the CD.

I mentioned girls alone in my earlier post because the topic was about heterosexual guys and girls.
...

I am scared of being rejected by males, but only insofar as rejection for regular social stuff, not romantic.

And I'm scared of success, because success just means you have more invested when the rejection comes.

See, I can relate to this, completely. That's basically why I stick with the same people, year after year, and don't really make any new friends outside the circle even though I'd LIKE to meet people outside the circle, and have more girl friends. The trick is practice, and dare I say it, drugs (the legal kind). Socializing is hard but if you want it badly enough you have to work at it, just like you would at playing an instrument or learning the theory of relativity.

I relate to these, too. I find it harder to meet with people unless I already know them, if that makes sense. And it's not like I run and hide when I meet women, but the whole field of dating seems incredbly knotty with huge potential for rejection and embarrassment, which weigh heavier than the potential benefits. Sad, really.

[bbqrocks]

I think I am like Anyways here. If the girl strikes up the conversation, I come across as very witty and an OK kinda guy, but if they don't strike up a conversation I come across as an idiot who has no idea what to say.

[Lhiannon]

Believe it or not, but I found this thread engaging enough to join the forum just so I could participate. Yep.

Okay, so I think Tuna is being a bit harsh with the misogynist comment, but has a point when saying that common ground is key. Being a girl, I agree that we [most of us] like to be treated normally- but there are always those who are really picky or shallow and want to be venerated for the goddesses they think they are. Honestly, those people drive me nuts regardless of gender, and I would be scared of them too if I were interested in them, for fear that they might smite me. I therefore say to those who have hangups addressing new people to seek out those who have common interests. The old "opposites attract" thing really only works with magnets, not so much with people. Yeah, it happens, but my boyfriend and all my other friends have things in common with me- things to do, things to talk about. With a little practice, it's not really difficult to start a conversation with "Hey, I heard you talking about [whatever]- It's really cool. Have you ever heard of [blah] before?" Or something. Simple, easy, and it doesn't have to be a long conversation. It's how my bf and I met! He thought I was kinda pretty, walked over, and asked about my shirt. We talked for five minutes before I had to leave, but that short convo made enough of an impression that we ended up together. So even though I am a bit shy, just being willing to talk about something kinda pointless worked out really well.

And for those who are looking for physical beauty [but are not necessarily shallow, per se], I would like to remind them that there are SO many beautiful people who are not in beauty pageants, weigh 110 pounds, or who fit the American 'image' of beauty, and that having a good personality goes a long way towards building a good relationship with a S.O.

There are other thoughts bouncing around in my head, but I forgot them now. Booger farts! Anyway, this got really long. I talk too much.