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[Zingoleb]

My music tastes are pretty varied, but most of my stuff is older; mainly, I thought that new stuff was garbage, but I've been hearing things to change my mind, bit by bit. So, as most of my library is rock, and most of THAT is classic rock, let me ask a question:

When did post-rock come to be?

When did rock stop and let a post-period happen?

Why don't we refer to ragtime as pre-rock?

Okay, that's three questions, sorry.

[gardenhead_]

post-rock means as much as indie does now. on last.fm, the wiki says

Post-rock is a genre of alternative rock characterized by the use of musical instruments commonly associated with rock music, but using rhythms, harmonies, melodies, timbre, and chord progressions that are not found in rock tradition.

Mogwai and EitS are the second and third most tagged artists as "post-rock". Mogwai are a self proclaimed rock band, and don't really deviate from regular rock music " rhythms, harmonies, melodies, timbre, and chord progressions". EitS don't really either. It's rather ridiculous.

Sorry, just had to get my rant on about that, as it's irritated me for some time.

[jimbunny]

If only all rants were so short.

[Nodaisho]

There never has to be a break for something to be post-___ as far as I can tell. Post-punk was certainly around in 1980, before some famous punk bands started, from what I can tell, post-___ in music means slower and with more odd sounds.

[Jackie Blue]

Mogwai are a self proclaimed rock band, and don't really deviate from regular rock music " rhythms, harmonies, melodies, timbre, and chord progressions".

Correct, except that Mogwai actually refer to themselves as a "punk rock" band.

And to be fair, the very earliest post-rock - Disco Inferno, etc - actually did deviate from traditional rock forms, and current bands such as Tarantel also do.

But, let's just lock this thread and be done with.

[Zingoleb]

I thought ? and the Mysterians were the first punk.

I just dislike labels in general, to be completely honest. So many things can be so minutely or broadly labeled that it rarely makes sense anymore; I said Rob Zombie is metal; my friend told me that he's industrial. So, I used that term, and an 'industrial purist' as she fancied herself told me he most certainly is not and started sending me a bunch of links to Ministry videos (none of which I clicked).

So what's in a word?

[Jackie Blue]

LOL @ an "industrial purist" pushing Ministry.

[Zingoleb]

*shrugs* I don't know much about them. She named...oh, hell, I can't remember. Orgy, too, I think. Bah...

[David_Dovey]

[Jackie Blue]

*shrugs* I don't know much about them. She named...oh, hell, I can't remember. Orgy, too, I think. Bah...

Then allow me to explain the delicious irony.

Ministry, KMFDM, and such bands basically created "industrial-metal" in the late 80s.  Rob Zombie's music sounds like shitty Ministry.  They're the exact same genre, and the same ages as Rob Zombie was in a band before he went solo called White Zombie which was around at the same time as Ministry.

[Spluff]

White Zombie, was, interestingly enough, originally a noise rock band. Their work is also so much better than Rob Zombie's stuff.

[Jackie Blue]

I've never had the inclination to seek out White Zombie's alleged noise rock output.  At the time, I actually didn't mind their metal stuff.  It was certainly better than the watered down version that he did when he went solo.

[imapiratearg]

Rob Zombie is god-awful.

Agreed, though, labels are silly.

[suitupletsgo]

you cannot deny the greatness that is Thunder Kiss '65.

[Zingoleb]

I like...certain selections. *shrugs* Thunder Kiss is...alright. Though the E E EE, E E EE, E E EE, E E EE, E E EE intro goes on WAY too long.

[Nodaisho]

Two-Lane Blacktop isn't bad, though I associate that with NFS:U, so that could be bias on my part.

[Albatron]

Rob Zombie is god-awful.

Agreed, though, labels are silly.

Sure labels are silly, but I also think they're necessary. If we didn't have labels, non musicians would only be able to talk about music by comparing it to other music. Instead of silly genre labels, we'd only have silly comparisons, and everytime you describe the awesome new band youve heard, you'd say "have you heard of artist a? They're like artist b but with a good helping of artist c and d, and maybe some e, etc." Labels are just easier.

[gardenhead_]

it looks like this thread is going to turn into a "labels are bad/good" debate.

I think they're pretty useless. There is already an example of why in this thread. Bands like Disco Inferno that were originally called post rock sound pretty disimilar to any of the commonly known bands such as GY!BE, Mogwai, Mono et al. I think Ludwig Wittgenstein's idea of language can be applied to music - we can try to categorise it down as much as we want, but we'll either end up with an exeption or genre for each band, or huge collections that are obvious and simple truths ie. Nas makes hip-hop, whilst Explosions in the Sky do not.

Why do you need to convert music into words? Why not just give the person the record/upload The Awesome New Band so they can decide for themself?

[bbqrocks]

Decide what for themselves?

[Harun]

now if you would turn to page# mediaf!re of the of The Daily Quibble, I have uploaded some excellent albums that 'sound all spacey and shit' (if you want to label them)

[Zingoleb]

Labels are good. But when you start arguing over whether something is "New Metal" or "Nu-Metal" you've gone too far.

[gardenhead_]

Decide what for themselves?

If the band is good or not. If you're trying to describe to them what a band sounds like, it is probably to convince them to listen to the band, or because they asked if a band was worth listening to. Like the inumerable recommendation threads in here - people don't seem to want to just listen to music for themselves, which I find strange, because discovering new music unexpectedly is so exciting.

Also, in describing a band to someone, it's likely you'll be misunderstood - it's just a part of language.

[Jackie Blue]

But when you're talking to people in Real Life, it's a lot easier to describe bands using genre labels than magically conjure up a boombox and a CD and pause the conversation for an hour while they check the band out, you know?

[Nodaisho]

Labels are good. But when you start arguing over whether something is "New Metal" or "Nu-Metal" you've gone too far.

I would say the difference between those two is simple: One is metal made recently, the other is stuff that only gets called metal thanks to someone (MTV, right?) deciding to call it nu-metal. I think the pronunciation difference between the two could be the difficulty, I pronounce them differently, but someone else might use the exact same difference but for the opposite terms.

Course, zero, for me the problem is that they don't know the genres I am talking about to begin with. I have gotten the friend I hang around with most to know the difference between some kinds, but I find it easier to pull out my mp3 player and find a band that fits the genre, have him listen for a few minutes.

[Zingoleb]

Oh, this is perfect. My Limewire has so many genres, including..."Polka," "Primus," and "Porn Groove"...

[gardenhead_]

But when you're talking to people in Real Life, it's a lot easier to describe bands using genre labels than magically conjure up a boombox and a CD and pause the conversation for an hour while they check the band out, you know?

damn. I actually did not even consider this. Probably because I never talk about music in meat life with anyone because I don't know many people that like the same music as me.

[Durin]

Oh, this is perfect. My Limewire has so many genres, including..."Polka," "Primus," and "Porn Groove"...

While those genres are awesome, you use Limewire?

[bbqrocks]

If the band is good or not. If you're trying to describe to them what a band sounds like, it is probably to convince them to listen to the band, or because they asked if a band was worth listening to. Like the inumerable recommendation threads in here - people don't seem to want to just listen to music for themselves, which I find strange, because discovering new music unexpectedly is so exciting.

Actually, I said 'decide what', meaning that genre names aren't meant to decide like and dislike.

[Zingoleb]

Nice avatar...

Yeah, on the rare occasion I decide to download a song; I usually buy the music.

[spoon_of_grimbo]

Oh, this is perfect. My Limewire has so many genres, including..."Polka," "Primus," and "Porn Groove"...

i know the porn groove one comes from... if you use the audio program Audacity (as many people do, as it's free), you can choose to edit the file info before you bounce something to mp3 (i.e. the track name, artist, album, track number, genre etc.).  however, where most are the fill-in boxes, genre gives a drop menu, and there's some ridiculous shit on there, "porn groove" being a good example.  i submitted my last piece of composition coursework (a kinda electronic-y post-rock kinda thing) with the genre set to "christian gangsta rap" just for giggles.

[Christophe]

I recorded an EP for one of my friends on Audacity. The genre of every song that we put down was "Christian Gangsta Rap".

Does it even actually fucking exist?

[Töys]

my next album is going to be post-Christian Gangsta Rap.

ha ha, circle completed.

[Jackie Blue]

words

As someone else said earlier this year: Do you new people just Google "old thread" or what?

[spoon_of_grimbo]

words

As someone else said earlier this year: Do you new people just Google "old thread" or what?

i got bored and browsed the music forum.  this thread had "new" next to it, implying there'd been recent posts, so i don't see the problem.  and either way, nobody forced you to read it and/or post in it did they? 

[Albatron]

yeah actually the new thing means you haven't read it or new posts have been posted since you last read it. If something has recent posts, its at the top until something with more recent posts comes along.

[Jackie Blue]

i got bored and browsed the music forum.  this thread had "new" next to it, implying there'd been recent posts, so i don't see the problem.  and either way, nobody forced you to read it and/or post in it did they? 

Lighten up, Francis.

[mberan42]

(fixed, sorry)

[KickThatBathProf]

Relevant

[TheFuriousWombat]

Whars the post-hardcorez?!? Isis and their ilk is sorely missing from that chart.

[Nodaisho]

Incomplete and flawed, but I couldn't do any better, it is difficult to track influences.

[Christophe]

Hay guys remember when Camel Cigarettes tried to co-opt indie rock in an advertisement in Rolling Stone and they got multiply shitcanned by a multitude of the bands that they listed

Fun times

[imapiratearg]

That chart is immensely difficult to follow.

[Nodaisho]

Yeah, they needed more colors.