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Author Topic: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode  (Read 68474 times)

satsugaikaze

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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #150 on: 19 Oct 2008, 13:35 »

lol seconded. As much as I thought the Terran heroes were probably some of the friggin coolest (Raynor forever harharhar although I don't like how he has hair now lol), the race itself was kinda lame.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #151 on: 19 Oct 2008, 14:41 »

I know how you guys feel, despite being a Terran player. I mean, I like the heavy unit specialization and the combined arms force motif in multiplayer, but honestly, I thought it was hard to get too interested in the generic civil war plotline that drove a lot of their campaign action. I mean, shit, I just don't care about Space Southerners going to war against eachother over political reasons I know nothing about. Sure, there's all that crap about the Xel'naga cluttering up the Zerg and Protoss backstory, but the gist of it isn't complicated and so the overall theme can be summed up rather quickly: ancient alien warrior-priests vs. savage alien hive mind upstarts. The Protoss fight the Zerg for their very existence while Arcturus Mengsk acts like a dickhead because the Confederates apparently pissed in his Cheerios at some point. It was really hard not to feel like the Terrans were just kinda swimming around the periphery of the real story.
« Last Edit: 19 Oct 2008, 14:56 by Whipstitch »
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #152 on: 21 Oct 2008, 10:06 »

Oh, I definitely prefer Terran units to Zerg - big giant Battleships, legions of invisible Wraiths, NUKES, etc.  But yeah, hopefully this time they do a better job of making it feel like the Terran campaign was just something that was going on while we waited for the real story to start.  Hell, they never even went anywhere with the whole thing where Mengsk talks about how the Confederates have been breeding and engineering the Zerg.

I would at least hope we get some cool Raynor/Kerrigan missions in the first game.  Maybe she's been at work making Zerg/human hybrids like her. 
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satsugaikaze

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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #153 on: 21 Oct 2008, 13:54 »

I just hope there's a lot more focus on Raynor this time; he was a nice supporting hero during the Protoss campaign but he just didn't seem like he was made important enough =P
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #154 on: 21 Oct 2008, 20:47 »

I think, based on the ridiculous amount of Raynor-related concept art they have been putting up he will be in the spotlight for a decent portion of the game. Same with Kerrigan and Zeratul.
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satsugaikaze

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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #155 on: 22 Oct 2008, 02:51 »

And remember that concept art of some nude chick reclining an volcanic material?

Either there's going to be some massive plot twist involving Kerrigan or that was just full-force fanservice. What'll it be? XD
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #156 on: 22 Oct 2008, 12:49 »

I think more Raynor is almost guaranteed.  I seem to remember some footage they released a while back as an example of part of the "metagame" behind the single player stuff, and it featured a player controlled Raynor walking around the interior of a battlecruiser, looking at maps on the bridge, etc.  It seems like this sort of thing could create a pretty serious disconnect between gameplay types... but then again, it could also be awesome.  Blizz is the only game dev I can think of that hasn't seriously let me down with any of their products, so I remain hopeful.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #158 on: 18 Apr 2009, 07:13 »

Wow, so, is it just me or are banelings kind of broken for such a low-tech unit?
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #159 on: 18 Apr 2009, 09:53 »

Damn, that was some serious shit if I do say so though. Its almost depressing to know I will never be as good as either of those players.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #160 on: 18 Apr 2009, 17:46 »

Certainly a good look at how things are coming along anyways. That looked like a nigh-finished product on the multiplayer side, bar some light balancing.

Still, that whole video struck me as surprisingly... familiar. Gameplay-wise, it looked almost exactly like some other competition videos I saw from the original SC. I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Part of me is disappointed to not see some giant miraculous leap of gameplay. But I have to stop and consider what it is that I expect. I mean, Starcraft was great as it was. Perhaps that is how it should stay. After all, it's the story I played the original for.

On a personal note: Banelings seem to be the Scourge of the the ground units. I hated Scourges  :-( And did anyone else notice the Queen attacking? That is not something I'm used to.

/excuse to post in this thread
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #161 on: 18 Apr 2009, 19:12 »

It looked there was a ridiculous amount of micromanagement of troops.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #162 on: 19 Apr 2009, 01:29 »

Knowing Blizzard, this is well more than warranted. Seeing as how they have not come out with a shitty game yet, I'm fucking pumped. For Aiur!
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #163 on: 19 Apr 2009, 03:10 »

Quote
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Warcraft Threeeeeeeee.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #164 on: 19 Apr 2009, 06:00 »

I dunno.  It looks shiny & all but I still think their decision to keep direct resource gathering is a mistake.  It looks like an expansion pack for StarCraft that updates the graphics and adds new units.  There's nothing really new or compelling about it at all, it still looks just like the same 10 year old design principle.  The level of micromanagement and fucking around still involved with the game turns me off it.

Oh also, the bit where the guy starts building a bunker next to the zerg guy's expansion and is able to get it up and a marine into it is just bullshit.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #165 on: 19 Apr 2009, 06:35 »

How was that bullshit? I'm unsure what you mean.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #166 on: 19 Apr 2009, 07:33 »

I have to agree, how was that bullshit at all? It was playing the game well, and a Terran player rushing a Zerg player is kinda fun to watch.

Look, complain all you want about
micromanagement of troops.
and
direct resource gathering
, but remember, this is a fucking RTS. It's all about unit micromanagement and taking over gathering spots. The AoE games has it, the Warcraft games has it, Red alert has it. What, do you think there's too much aiming in a FPS?

I'm really exited about this. They have kept the formula that has stayed around since forever since it works so well, but they have included a lot of interesting new elements. Units that can jump cliffs? Brushes that block line of sight? New, fun elements that will make a better game. Weee!
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lolwut

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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #167 on: 19 Apr 2009, 07:38 »

remember, this is a fucking RTS. It's all about unit micromanagement and taking over gathering spots.e a better game. Weee!

DAWN OF WAR
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #168 on: 19 Apr 2009, 08:13 »

Thank you, lolwut.  That is my point exactly.  I far prefer the notion of abstracted strategic points to capture so that you don't have to fuck around with the unfun nitty-gritty of resource collection and worrying about whether you have the correct fucking SCV to marine build ratio in your opening game in order to avoid a rush but still have enough resources to continue to grow.  When I play an RTS I would like to know that the S stands for something other than "remember the correct build order for things and be really quick at pressing keys."

As for the single SCV building a bunker while running away from a zerg builder dood, the thing I found bullshit about it is that the SCV shouldn't have been able to continue to build the thing under constant harassment like that.  That plus the way the terran player used SCVs to shield his marines from zerglings for a while strikes me more as an exploitation of a game mechanic than a valid tactic.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #169 on: 19 Apr 2009, 13:01 »

Most really good gamers are good precisely because they know how to exploit game mechanics. I don't think you'll find that happening too often in general play.
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snalin

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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #170 on: 19 Apr 2009, 14:16 »

Isn't "exploiting game mechanics" just a fancy word for "playing"?

The Dawn of War argument is kinda poor, you still take over control points to gather resources, it's just built a different way. Direct resource gathering is fun because it makes the game harder to play; you have to worry about more stuff than you have to worry about with the other variant. It's two completely different kinds of gameplay, with completely different skills needed to excel. I guess the best thing would be to do the same thing as Age Of Mythology did, where you could choose to fight over plenty vaults, or if you wanted to mine gold/gather food etc. the usual way.

And why shouldn't SCVs be able to fight? What is the problem with stacking a builder unit in an opening so the enemy has to chop it's way through it? It seems like a completely natural move to me. Somebody is shooting you, but there's someone between you and them, so you have to hack your way through the obstruction before you can kill the people shooting you. Can't see the problem at all. Everything that's a part of the game is a valid tactic. Exploiting bugs isn't, but that would be more like clicking special keys to teleport zerglings into the enemy base, not moving units around.

Bluhrg, reedited this post a bit too much, a stupid discussion to be having. Somebody likes one thing, others like the other. The fact that Dawn Of War didn't turn into such a massive multiplayer thing as Starcraft just means that more people preferred the traditional gathering. I guess.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #171 on: 19 Apr 2009, 17:27 »

Not sure if you can correlate the two. Just b/c Starcraft has traditional gathering and became so popular and Dawn of War doesn't and didn't doesn't mean that type of resource gathering and popularity are linked in any way. In fact, I kinda doubt they are. Of course, that's an equally unfounded statement so maybe you're right. Who knows!
Also, I think there is a difference in exploiting mechanics and simply playing. A really good player learns all the little tricks, things that you can technically do but that the devs didn't necessarily intend to be commonly done, if done at all. It's all about learning the game in depth and then using that knowledge to do things in an unexpected way that sets the great players apart from the more casual ones. Sometimes this does mean exploiting certain little issues or possibilities that probably should have been ironed out by the dev team. Of course, that apparently entails dozens of hours of practice per day so it's probably worth it just to play casually and also do other stuff with your life.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #172 on: 19 Apr 2009, 17:46 »

The Dawn of War argument is kinda poor, you still take over control points to gather resources, it's just built a different way.

The DAWN OF WAR argument is that micromanagement is fucking stupid in a game where you're controlling large armies. It's less about the differences in resource gathering and more about the being streamlined so that there's actual possibly tactical strategy rather than... idunno, spreadsheets.

I always liked the Myth series better than anything else anyway.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #173 on: 19 Apr 2009, 18:55 »

The Dawn of War argument is not poor.  I am saying that I think abstracting the resource gathering so that it is a part of the fun part of the game rather than a separate entity is preferable to me because I don't like fucking around with resource gathering.  I find it dull.  It is boring.  It is a chore.  I play games to have fun, not to get frustrated due to running out of resources halfway through a big push because a dude gets stuck behind a crystal due to pathing issues or what have you. 

Also, I don't care about how popular a game is in multiplayer, because there are very few games I play multiplayer.  Dawn of War had a superior single-player experience for me, which is all I want from the RTS genre. I think the key here is something you've already said, these are my opinions about the game.  You obviously like the game and you're not going to change my mind about the things I'm saying, so let's agree to disagree/play the games each of us prefer.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #174 on: 20 Apr 2009, 01:01 »

The DAWN OF WAR argument is that micromanagement is fucking stupid in a game where you're controlling large armies. It's less about the differences in resource gathering and more about the being streamlined so that there's actual possibly tactical strategy rather than... idunno, spreadsheets.

Micromanagement is fine. In fact, it's almost the entire point, in that it's the major decider of how efficient each soldier is. The alternative is macromanagement, which is a kind of fire and forget mode that doesn't appeal much to developed RTS gamers.

In addition, the resource-gathering system of Starcraft was retained due to how fine-tuned it was. It had you make real choices about the time and resources you would allocate to gathering new resources.

Some players don't like this, but it's a part of the RTS experience for others. I think I should be clear on one point, though: Starcraft is definitely a more complex and detailed gaming experience, and it's attractive to players that like that level of complexity as opposed to Dawn Of War, which is much more casual. Due to the nature of things, it's a question of preference more than anything.
What I am saying is that if you dislike the complexity and flexibility inherent in Starcraft, that is cool, but it was not designed with you in mind. It's kind of like listening to Black Sabbath and saying "these guitars are too heavy". It's a part of the experience.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #175 on: 20 Apr 2009, 02:09 »

None Silly Resource Gathering Game

In allmost all other cases it's simply down to playing experience. Even sins of a solar empire is just another gather your resources and build a huge fucking ship. (Sins of a solar Empire is fricking great game if you got a weekend to spend btw.)
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #176 on: 20 Apr 2009, 02:10 »

Note: I have/love that goddamn game.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #177 on: 20 Apr 2009, 02:47 »

so let's agree to disagree/play the games each of us prefer.

Yes.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #178 on: 20 Apr 2009, 11:41 »

NO

NO FUCK YOU ALL
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #179 on: 20 Apr 2009, 19:16 »

DO YOU WANT TO FIGHT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #180 on: 20 Apr 2009, 19:21 »

LIGHTNING BOLT
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #181 on: 20 Apr 2009, 19:32 »

ENERGY SHIELD

ENTANGLING ROOTS
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #182 on: 20 Apr 2009, 19:38 »

YAMATO CANNON
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #183 on: 20 Apr 2009, 19:46 »

HADOUKEN
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #184 on: 20 Apr 2009, 20:08 »

MAGIC MISSILE
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #185 on: 20 Apr 2009, 20:19 »

CONTINGENCY: STONE SKIN

BIGBY'S CLENCHED FIST
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #186 on: 20 Apr 2009, 20:22 »

Spluff casts silence
« Last Edit: 20 Apr 2009, 20:24 by Spluff »
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #187 on: 20 Apr 2009, 20:25 »

est used an Echo Herb
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #188 on: 20 Apr 2009, 20:27 »

***Spluff has quit (Reason: god damn it you guys)
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #189 on: 20 Apr 2009, 20:27 »

RUN AWAY
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #190 on: 20 Apr 2009, 20:30 »

So... how about that local sports team, eh?
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #191 on: 21 Apr 2009, 01:48 »

They beat the Waratahs that's what.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #192 on: 21 Apr 2009, 03:15 »

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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #193 on: 21 Apr 2009, 05:03 »

Remember how on DBZ they talked about being able to fly by... fuck, pulling up your stomach?

This thread is now about how you wasted half an hour trying to make that work.
« Last Edit: 21 Apr 2009, 05:06 by lolwut »
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #194 on: 23 Apr 2009, 04:42 »

That's Vegeta.

Vegeta cannot Kamehameha.

Vegeta can Big Bang.

That might be what we're seeing.

I'm not sure, since I'm not the DBZ nerd I once was.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #195 on: 23 Apr 2009, 05:11 »

That picture is entirely false, and stoopid, I want to hyuken ONLY!
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #196 on: 23 Apr 2009, 06:58 »

I'm a bit happy inside that I didn't get that right.
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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #197 on: 24 Apr 2009, 07:41 »

It angers me that that show is roughly based on the Journey to the West characters.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #198 on: 24 Apr 2009, 08:12 »

You mean Monkey?
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McTaggart

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Re: Starcraft 2 to be three games, internet to explode
« Reply #199 on: 24 Apr 2009, 08:18 »

They beat the Waratahs that's what.

They lost Drew Mitchell to the Waratahs  :cry:

At least they beat the Lions 55-14 vOv
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