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[JD]

I still want Verhoven flogged in Public Square for that butchery of Heinlein's classic.

Nerd rage is kinda annoying.

Just sayin'

[Alex C]

That was one of my favorite aspects of the movie.  I love the way Parker keeps trying to bring up "the bonus situation".

Yeah, Scott's stuff is definitely pretty emblematic of '80s sci-fi, since Blade Runner epitomized the visual style of cyberpunk while Alien was definitely about how the universe and greed are both bigger and much, much nastier than ordinary people.

[Kugai]

I still want Verhoven flogged in Public Square for that butchery of Heinlein's classic.

Nerd rage is kinda annoying.

Just sayin'

It's not Nerd Rage Zombiedude.  I rarely have such a reaction to a movie - the last time I felt like that was when David Lynch's Dune came out.  

I happen to be a Heinlein fan, and read his books.  Having been familiar with Starship Troopers the Novel, I was looking forward to seeing the film of one of his classic books - You can imagine my reaction to that abortion of a film, and Verhoven's 'Meh' attitude about what he'd made - when I saw it.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the film for what it is (shock, horror) but as a movie version of a Heinlein classic it stinks like three week old socks.

Verhoven butchered it, and butchered it royally.  And for that, (and his attitude to it), I cannot forgive him.

[a pack of wolves]

You can't forgive a man for making an anti-war film instead of a pro-war film that argues military dictatorships are a good idea, and having no respect for a book that suggests such a horrible thing?

[ackblom12]

Starship Troopers wasn't so much a book as it was an essay and I can't really blame him for making a parody film of it for all the previous reasons stated.

[Ozymandias]

It's tough to call it a butchery when the intent was never to do it justice to begin with.

It would be like claiming the original Casino Royale movie butchered Fleming, certainly being accurate to Fleming was never its course.

[Alex C]

Yeah, earlier I was merely objecting to the comparison because I doubt that Scott would ever crap on The Forever War's ideas with such certainty of purpose.

[Kugai]

You can't forgive a man for making an anti-war film instead of a pro-war film that argues military dictatorships are a good idea, and having no respect for a book that suggests such a horrible thing?

Have you read Starship Troopers?

[Alex C]

Well, limiting suffrage to people who accept the military as legitimate and OK to participate in is a pretty solid way to cut dissent off at the knees, isn't it? I mean, Heinlein's idealized version is all noble meritocracy and smooth sailing but that's because you know, it's just a book. In practice it'd have some pretty shitty snags in the line to contend with. I mean, really, what the hell are you supposed to do if you don't agree with what the military is doing in Starship Troopers? You can't vote if you're currently earning citizenship in the military and you can't vote if you haven't already been in. It'd be like if politicians didn't have to give a crap what many of us think about the Iraq war unless we had all done time in the military or if all of us who were against it agreed to go fight over there for two years and come back AND only then get to vote. Best case scenario with a misbehaving government is that you already have served militarily during a time where they're not doing anything you object to (if that's possible). If you come of age when the military is running the ship into the ground you're just SOL. Go roll up your sleeves and follow orders until you have the right to say something about it. Fantastic.

[KvP]

Since we've already taken the plunge, I'd like to point out that from a post-structuralist perspective, requiring military service in order to attain citizenship is sort of unnecessary, given that primary schools do most of the heavy lifting in the social learning department. Schools are designed like prisons, administration is a microcosm of political systems, etc. etc.

[Kugai]

Actually, if you read it a bit better, you'll see that Military Service is not the only way to earn citizenship and the right to vote.  There are passages in the book where Rico mentions that there are other services/industries/occupations that are available to a person who wishes to gain citizenship but, for whatever reasons, are unable to enter Military Service.

The only reason the Military features so heavily in the book is the fact that this is Rico's story, consequently it follows him and his path.  It's service that counts - service to the government and the people of the Federation, and there are other occupations available if you don't want to go into the Military.

[a pack of wolves]

I'd still call that a military dictatorship and terrifyingly dystopian.

[Lines]

link.

i think i'm ok with this.

That sounds like a good thing.

[J]

http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/11/12/worst-idea-ever-ridley-scott-is-directing-monopoly/

[TheFuriousWombat]

Wait, you guys are all saying you like the Starship Troopers movie in a "oh man this movie is hilariously awful and ridiculous and therefore a lot of fun to watch," kinda way right?

[KvP]

Starship Troopers is legitimately good.

[Alex C]

Wait, you guys are all saying you like the Starship Troopers movie in a "oh man this movie is hilariously awful and ridiculous and therefore a lot of fun to watch," right?

No. That's about the only stance I haven't seen taken before here.

[TheFuriousWombat]

oh

[JD]

My stance on the movie is that it is fun to watch.

[beat mouse]

Starship Troopers has future sports, sexy Denise Richards, Michael Ironside, zerglings, and NPH. I don't understand how someone can watch it and not fall in love. Joyless cretins, the lot of you!

[Orbert]

Don't forget Dina Meyer.  I know people go all crazy over Denise Richards, but I think Dina is great.

[Alex C]

Clever seems like too strong a word for it, tbh.

[ackblom12]

I don't know, I don't think being hamfisted keeps it from being clever. Certainly not subtle, but I would say a majority of it was fairly clever in how well the satire was done.

[Johnny C]

Since we've already taken the plunge, I'd like to point out that from a post-structuralist perspective, requiring military service in order to attain citizenship is sort of unnecessary, given that primary schools do most of the heavy lifting in the social learning department. Schools are designed like prisons, administration is a microcosm of political systems, etc. etc.

only lightly post-structuralist since you're really just talking about althusser's ideological state apparatuses

i've read starship troopers and it's a really awful book, dude. like it's just a rip-roaring fascist tract. super embarrassing for everyone involved, from heinlein all the way down to the dudes who had to bind it. verhoeven crafted a fairly clever satire of american attitudes towards military action in general and gung-ho space movies in particular (and if you don't think it's fairly clever, there's plenty of people who haven't realized it's a satire to this day).

re: that american cinematographer article, i'm highly suspicious because the article itself isn't cited, and the only wiki-like place i can find which does have a citation attached and mentions the writing in the article doesn't mention the film getting optioned midway through, and as far as i know nobody involved with the film has ever mentioned that aspect of it, so honestly until i read some actual legit proof i'm going to treat the movie the way everyone else does, which is that verhoeven and his team knew what they were doing from the start.

[Hustler]

I enjoy both the book and movie of Troopers, although obviously as vastly different products (one a philosophical analysis of society and fascinating look at interstellar war, the other one of the better done Aliens ripoffs with a biting undercurrent of satire and Verhoeven's usual endearing style of crass humor.  Also, boobs.)

And to be on topic, this movie seems iffy to me, but then I'm in the camp that definitely preferred Aliens to its predecessor.

[Alex C]

I watch the second one more but that doesn't mean I think it's the better film, if that makes any sense.

[lprkn]

That makes sense. Alien is definitely the better of the two. Although that's like asking me whether I would like chocolate or vanilla ice cream. I'll pick vanilla, but that doesn't mean I don't like chocolate. Aliens is easier to watch multiple times. While it's still a great movie, it doesn't require as much from the viewer as Alien.

[Alex C]

Yeah, I think the great virtue of the second is that it's pretty true to the setting laid out in the first one while still functioning well as a mindless popcorn movie if that's all you want from it.

[Dazed]

Yeah Alien is certainly a superior film, but goddamn if Aliens isn't one of the most quotable, fun movies to watch ever. Plus it has Michael Biehn, and it's pretty goddamn hard to go wrong there.

[Kugai]

3 was just plain depressing and 4?   WTF??

[Lines]

4 doesn't exist.

[look out! Ninjas!]

Yeah, it's a shame that script never got picked up.