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Author Topic: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.  (Read 23744 times)

TheViscount

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #50 on: 25 Feb 2009, 15:44 »

Why would you want him to live anyway? Sure he was a fun character, but he was insane, going to ruin the possibility of peace, and couldn't let himself change. Can't think of a reason why he would need to live. Not to say your reasoning can't be c\valid, as long as goes beyond 'He's so cool man, like cool!!!! (quote provided by Zack Snyder)

Zack needs to start thinking before speaking. He's being judged more on his responses in interviews rather than his cinematography.

If you want an idea of what i'm talking about, look up Blunty3000's interview with Zack. If you like watching people talk about something and not know what the hell they are saying, you might enjoy it.
« Last Edit: 25 Feb 2009, 17:43 by TheViscount »
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Blyss

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #51 on: 25 Feb 2009, 16:25 »

It's not because he's a cool character - it's because I think he's right.

Hide an awful truth from the world, so that the peace they live in is a lie?

Thanks, but no thanks.

I wanted him to live because he deserved to live.  The world SHOULD have known what happened.  Meh, I was going to drop this...

I know for the story's sake he had to die.  It actually made his character all the more memorable, it just hacked me off, that's all.

**really letting go now**
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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #52 on: 25 Feb 2009, 17:42 »

Rorschach is an uncompromising character.  He sees the world in terms of black and white.  Dan, Laurie, and Ostermann all understand that the event has already occurred, and to expose Veidt's plan would just let the world go on as it had been, toward disaster.  Rorschach understands that, but doesn't care.  Veidt has done wrong and must be punished.

I agreed with Rorschach more than the others when it came to that point though. They went down there to stop what Veidt was doing, and then didn't because they decided it would be the "greater good" to let his plan go on, but frankly, who had the authority to decide that? Certainly not Veidt. Nobody has the authority to decide that. In my eyes, Rorschach was the only one who saw things clearly.
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skinnyfat

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #53 on: 25 Feb 2009, 21:34 »

I lent my copy of this to someone like 6 years ago and never got it back. Same with DKR. I'm not okay with it.

You think that's bad. I lent my copy to someone, and when I was over at their house, I found it on the floor next to the toilet...
Definitely not cool.

This is one of my favorite comics of all time. The storyline, the characters, it just draws you in. It feels so real. Definitely one of the most realistic superhero story I have read so far. It makes you actually believe this stuff can exist.

I love how there are so many stories within the main story. There's current storyline, what happened with the old watchmen, the newspaper vendor story, and the story about the shipwrecked guy.
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knives

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #54 on: 25 Feb 2009, 22:43 »

It's not because he's a cool character - it's because I think he's right.

Hide an awful truth from the world, so that the peace they live in is a lie?

Thanks, but no thanks.

I wanted him to live because he deserved to live.  The world SHOULD have known what happened.  Meh, I was going to drop this...

I know for the story's sake he had to die.  It actually made his character all the more memorable, it just hacked me off, that's all.

**really letting go now**
That's actually really good reasoning. I might not agree, look at Rorschach own Truman defense for a similar why, but I appreciate that your reasoning is founded in good thinking.
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the_pied_piper

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #55 on: 26 Feb 2009, 10:46 »

So i finished reading Watchmen for the first time a couple of days ago. I really enjoyed it and in my opinion it certainly dedserves it's place in the New York Times top 100 of all time.

*spoiler*Personally, the best bit of the whole book for me was when they originally thought that it was Veidt who had done it because it seemed to me to be far too simple to be the truth. It left me puzzled for a while until it turned out it was actually true.*spoiler*

Also, i have to say that i partly agree with Rorschach because his view of one person [or a group] directing the way the world works isn't the way to go and he saw this. However, from the comic it looked as if there was going to be a nuclear war between the USA and Soviet Union in that when and where so i guess it would've been acceptable under those circumstances.
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Ozymandias

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #56 on: 26 Feb 2009, 11:43 »

What intrigues me is that Rorschach condemns Veidt, but praises Truman.

Surely there's a lot of parallel between Truman's use of the bomb and Veidt's plan. Without the shades of gray that are inherent in the differences of both situation, Rorschach seems to be conflicted against his own morality in his attempt to inform the world of the truth.
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knives

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #57 on: 26 Feb 2009, 11:46 »

That's what I've been saying. Bloody hypocrite. But then again for people to still sympathize with Kovacs shows how strong the book is.
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PapaFrita

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #58 on: 26 Feb 2009, 13:05 »

I think Rorschach knew he was going to die, anyways. He didn't really have a life beyond the mask; he WAS Rorschach. He knew he couldn't change, and I think he knew that he had to die as well.
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knives

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #59 on: 26 Feb 2009, 14:15 »

Probably why he was Spoilers*crying.*spoilers
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Nodaisho

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #60 on: 02 Mar 2009, 20:44 »

What intrigues me is that Rorschach condemns Veidt, but praises Truman.

Surely there's a lot of parallel between Truman's use of the bomb and Veidt's plan. Without the shades of gray that are inherent in the differences of both situation, Rorschach seems to be conflicted against his own morality in his attempt to inform the world of the truth.
I noticed that too. I think it could be that he felt much different when it actually happened than when he was looking at it from years later, probably largely with a viewpoint given to him (daddy thought this, so I should think this. Even if I never met him, and he was probably a loser). Or possibly he changed his viewpoint over the several decades between his essay and Veidt's plan happening.

The point of view thing also makes it difficult to debate who was in the less wrong, as the cold war ended without the nukes blowing everyone to hell, (though that might have gone differently with manhattan) but we still didn't get world peace. When it was written, nobody knew if they were going to wake up and find out that DC was gone and a big cloud of radiation had just rolled into town.

So, I was in Barnes and Noble yesterday, and saw a table full of Watchmen stuff. One of the books was musing and philosophy based off of watchmen, but unfortunately I didn't see anything good on the big issue at the end. Closest it came was an essay on whether it was ever all right to lie, and that guy said that we were supposed to think that Veidt's side was the right one, which I disagree with completely. I tend to side more with Rorschach, but I think Moore wanted it to be something that people would argue over, and that there was no definitive right answer.
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Norton Quintessential

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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #61 on: 06 Mar 2009, 21:07 »

Why isn't this in the "Comics & Drawings" forum? Then the "Just the comic" qualifier wouldn't be needed.

Also, RORSCHACH WAS RIGHT VEIDT LIED PEOPLE DIED Etc., Etc., Etc. At least that's my view on the subject.
« Last Edit: 06 Mar 2009, 21:09 by Norton Quintessential »
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Re: Just Watchmen. Just the Comic.
« Reply #62 on: 07 Mar 2009, 03:00 »

Because you simplton this thread isn't about a comic it's about a graphic novel and it is therefor a much higher piece of literature than those common comics [/sarcastic]

move along people, nothing to see here.
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