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Author Topic: Please, Just Let Me Die Already  (Read 267806 times)

MrBlu

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #750 on: 14 Apr 2009, 00:52 »

We have a group on Facebook.
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onewheelwizzard

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #751 on: 14 Apr 2009, 16:08 »

I've been in the "my best friends are in a relationship and there's a mutual attraction thing between me and one of them" situation before.

The first time it happened, I hooked up with the girl 2 weeks after she broke up with my best friend.  That was weird for a while but it blew over when we decided that it wasn't worth the drama and we needed to stop ... but then a couple months later I lost my virginity to her (by then my male friend had found reasons to stop caring so much about it and we're all still really incredibly close 4+ years later).  I handled that one really sloppily but I was still in high school at that point and it was the first time I'd been put in that situation and I feel like I could've done a lot worse.

It happened much more recently with a guy I went to Burning Man with and his girlfriend.  We were going to dance parties together pretty often and I was consistently getting urges to dance with her in a really physical fashion ... also, me and her would have really long and involved conversations about things that were really important to us (and we explained to each other that there was mutual attraction, in private, fairly early on).  It was a rather tense atmosphere for me at times and eventually I felt like I needed to get the issue out on the table as soon as possible.  It really, really helped.

Based on this I think the best thing to do, if you're in a position of having a really serious crush on a good friend who is in a relationship with someone who is also your good friend, is to get the two of them together and tell them what's up.  Basically you want to be as transparent as possible ... you want them to know the truth about how you feel about the person you're attracted to, but you also want them to know the truth about how you feel regarding your friendship with the two of them (specifically, that you'd like to keep it).  If you reveal ALL your motivations to them, they can at least feel safe knowing that you're not trying to be manipulative, and optimally, as your friends, they'll understand what's going on and respond in a way that makes things easier for you somehow.
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also at one point mid-sex she asked me "what do you think about commercialism in art?"

Dimmukane

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #752 on: 19 Apr 2009, 16:15 »

Oh, I forgot...

Difficulty: the boyfriend (best friend) is in Arizona for at least a year, probably two.


In any case, I spent the night at her house last night.  We got drunk, but we just had a good time, nothing happened.  We put our feelings out in the open, so there's that.  But it doesn't seem to have improved the situation.  I'm fine with things for now (I've been single all my life, it's not gonna bother me that much to stay single a while longer), but she is now feeling more conflicted about this whole deal.  To make things worse, her boyfriend, while drunk, decided to call and ask her about doing a threesome with another friend of ours again (which I have the privilege burden? position of knowing everything about, despite not being there).  So she's now a little angry at him, for obvious reasons.  He apologized and all, but she is having a really hard time coping with her feelings, and I am feeling slightly guilty about putting her in this position.
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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #753 on: 19 Apr 2009, 18:00 »

Okay, so you guys are in your early twenties and he's moving away for like two years?

Okay, I'm generally pretty strict about relationships and stuff like that, but your friend is the one who needs to come here for advice and that advice is dump her fucking boyfriend. Unless they're outright engaged (Is she? I kind of stopped paying attention to my own thread, but you said boyfriend instead of fiance), she's pretty much wasting her youth right there. There's really no good reason this day and age to stick with someone 2,000 miles away unless you are absolutely, head over heels, take a bullet for them in love. This isn't even about the threesome thing, because it's a reasonably fair question, it's that she could be wasting a lot of time, that would be better spent enjoying herself, sitting talking on the phone with her boyfriend while not actually socializing.

I am loathe to say this, but I feel it would be completely acceptable on your part to make a move, BUT doing so might spoil your chances. If she continues to show interest in you while seeing problems pop up, ask her point blank if she plans to marry him. Don't add anything to it, just tell her it's something she should think on considering the imminent distance in their relationship.  Best case scenario is that she gets the point and realizes it's a good one and you've got some nookie in the wings. Worst case scenario (For you) is that she decides she wants to and they elope and you're still single, which at least gets your mind off the idea and takes the potential guilt out of the equation.
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Dimmukane

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #754 on: 19 Apr 2009, 19:38 »

That's probably all moot, now.  She just told him...I don't know how he reacted but I have a feeling it did not go well.



FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.



Okay so I'm not implicated in this but this is still pretty much what we were trying to avoid.  Fucking hormones.
« Last Edit: 19 Apr 2009, 19:54 by Dimmukane »
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onewheelwizzard

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #755 on: 19 Apr 2009, 21:50 »

OK here's the deal with long distance.

There is a lot to be said for monogamy.  However, one of the things about monogamy is that if you're going to hold someone responsible for not having sex with anyone but yourself, you need to hold yourself responsible for their sex drive or else you're putting them in an intractable position.  If you're unable to hold yourself responsible for their sex drive, as is the case if you're 2,000 miles away from them, then you have to back off the whole monogamy thing for a while or else the two of you are going to end up in an unfortunate situation (either because they sleep with someone else and you feel wronged, or because they don't and their quality of life goes down and brings the relationship down with it to some degree.  The exceptional case in which someone's quality of life does not diminish in the slightest from not having sex is relatively rare.)

If your friends want to stay on good terms, they're going to have to back off from monogamy a bit right now, basically no matter what.  They're both horny people (read: young) and their quality of life is almost definitely being impacted by not having any sex.  They have several choices:
-Lose touch gradually without ever "breaking up" and reconnect later when the opportunity arises (likely to lead to trouble but not the most terrible kind)
-"Break up" right now and decide not to keep in touch ("trouble" by definition, I suppose)
-Keep in touch, but try to stay monogamous (definitely going to cause stress, relationship is unlikely to survive)
-Keep in touch AND agree that it's OK if they see other people in their respective living situations (this requires less ego than they are likely to have, will probably cause some strife at some point, but is by far the most successful option if they pull it off.)

Now the whole thing about you being friends with both of them is a completely different can of worms, but either way, they should realize that they're going to have to experiment a bit with a looser relationship structure if they want to have one at all.

Since you've got ulterior motives, you might not be the best person to tell them all this, but maybe you can talk them into it, who knows?
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also at one point mid-sex she asked me "what do you think about commercialism in art?"

BrittanyMarie

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #756 on: 19 Apr 2009, 22:27 »

I would like some advice because I have no idea what to do about the situation.

My roommate (S) is also my cousin. Her and her twin sister (N) and I have been living together for about a year, and it's pretty good for the most part. Two months ago though, she got a boyfriend (T) who completely and totally sucks. Every time he comes over, he brings out the worst in me; I am judgmental about things I normally wouldn't give a shit about when he's around. (he's got a kid, he never graduated high school, works at a dollar store, he does drugs [normally I don't think I'd care but S uses it as an excuse for his assholery, and I didn't think X turned you into a lunatic, I thought it made you love everything])

He's a raging asshole. I'd understand maybe if it was to me or to my cousin who's not dating him, since he knows us and knows we don't like him, but for an example I'll tell you something he did to this own forum's Liz. We were at Women (the band) and afterward, Liz got their set list. T's friend M asks her if he can have it, she politely says no, sorry. T comes over and demands that Liz give his friend the set list because "he deserves it", Liz is like "um, sorry?" T says again "No really, you should give that set list to my friend because he deserves it more than you. He listens to them a LOT" Liz says, again, "No, sorry." and puts it in her back pocket. T grabs the list out of her pocket. Liz says "No really, please give that back." "Why, my friend DESERVES IT", replies T. Eventually he does give it back, after first crumpling it up. Okay, I know it's just a piece of paper but he didn't know her; he'd never met her before. He went and acted like a raging asshole for no reason to someone he's never met.

He has done many MANY other similar things. I'd love to just ignore them and hope they break up as soon as they can, but not only does she bring him over to the house constantly, but I'm pretty good friends with his band mate and in fact that's how he and S met, so I see T out at the bars sometimes. Friday night I found myself screaming at him about "I fucking know you're a douche bag, T, you don't have to keep proving it. I FUCKING GET IT"

S's parents know that N and I hate T. HATE HIM. They also know how S has lied to them in the past (a very major lie), but somehow S has convinced them (apparently) that N and I are jealous and that we both have a crush on T, when in fact we just hate him because he is a terrible terrible person. That's the part that makes me the most mad; is that she is straight lying to her parents about me specifically. It doesn't matter that I was with a dude I'd been with for a year and a half at the time I met her stupid boyfriend and beside the fact that I think he's totally unattractive (before I met him).

They have only been together two months and he has asked her to marry him. Luckily she said not yet. It has been two months and I feel like I am going crazy because of her stupid junior high style relationship (he is her first boyfriend).
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What about orgasmic chemistry.

I can expand the definition of that if anyone wants to roll around to my Fortress of Love.

BrittanyMarie

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #757 on: 19 Apr 2009, 22:31 »

Double posting because I wanted to make it more clear that the things I am judgmental over are not things that I normally have any moral issue with. If he was a nice guy with a kid, I would probably think it's cute. But I think it's the fact that he's a jerk who works at a dollar store who probably doesn't pay much in child support which seems irresponsible but again, normally I don't think I'd care AS MUCH as I do.
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What about orgasmic chemistry.

I can expand the definition of that if anyone wants to roll around to my Fortress of Love.

Emaline

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #758 on: 19 Apr 2009, 22:50 »

Oh right! Sorry... I forget about your silly laws sometimes.


This post is so much funnier if you imagine the bear saying it.
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Liz

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #759 on: 20 Apr 2009, 05:55 »

Brittany, if your cousin says yes to that douche, just let me know. I will come over and knock some sense into her, and maybe give him a little pounding for good measure.
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Dimmukane

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #760 on: 20 Apr 2009, 06:57 »

-"Break up" right now and decide not to keep in touch ("trouble" by definition, I suppose)

This is what has more or less already happened, although I get the feeling it's not the last time they'll talk to each other.

-Keep in touch AND agree that it's OK if they see other people in their respective living situations (this requires less ego than they are likely to have, will probably cause some strife at some point, but is by far the most successful option if they pull it off.)

This is what she wanted at first, but he wouldn't have any of it.  Which is odd for him.  Several months before he left he would have been perfectly fine with this, they had broken up for all of two weeks earlier and he got over it quick (with yet another party whom everyone involved hates now), even though they did get back together.  I think if she had waited a few more weeks to spring this on him, the initial homesickness wouldn't be so overbearing and he'd understand.


I want them to have at least a friendly relationship, but I don't know how to repair it or if it's even a good idea.  I am also a little worried about him putting two and two together and being royally pissed off at me.  I can't do anything about that, but I might be able to do the first part.
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benji

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #761 on: 20 Apr 2009, 07:46 »

All I would say is proceed with care. It sounds like there's a lot of important relationships tangled in this.

Your friendship with him is obviously in jeopardy. This is true whether you get involved with her or not. Because you already have feelings for her, because she's your friend, and because she's there and he's not, you're going to probably have a tendency to take her "side." If he's a good friend of yours, you probably owe it to him to be honest if anything happens. If anything does happen, make it clear that it didn't happen until after they broke up. If you still value his friendship, make sure you tell him so.

Your friendship with her is also in jeopardy. Your attraction to each other might be very real, but it might also not be wise to become her rebound if you want to have a continuing friendship. There's a danger that she might come to feel that you took advantage of a vulnerable time for her, or that you might come to feel that she used you to get over her boyfriend. This often happens at the end of rebound relationships, and that's natural, but it's not the kind of thing you usually want between friends.

If you are going to pursue her now that she is single, I think that could be very good and healthy. The strongest relationships of my life have all grown out of close friendships, and I think it's a wonderful place to start from. But go slowly and recognize that you might have to decide at some point whether the friendship is more important then the romantic relationship. You might also have to decide whether your friendship with him is more important then the romantic relationship.
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Dimmukane

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #762 on: 20 Apr 2009, 08:06 »

That basically sums up everything that's going through my mind right now.  I see all the problems that could arise if I don't handle this correctly, so much so that I'm very nervous about moving forward in any direction.  But everyone's responses have been a great help.
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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #763 on: 20 Apr 2009, 16:31 »

jens whatever you do, please please please do not buy any books claiming they will teach you what women really want or how to get any lady you want and thus improve your confidence vastly.  they offer horrible advice, and i am convinced that every guy who actually takes them seriously ends up turning into a huge dick.

honestly you'd be better off asking us internet people because some of us actually know what we're talking about. hobbies are good. having them implies you are interesting and independent and that's an attractive quality.

Various months later, (okay maybe two), I skim through the first page and find this very agreeable.

Those books (especially, especially e-books about how girls size you up in the first 5 minutes of talking to you, look to see if your belt and shoes don't match, eye you up and down and make a judgement about you in 3 seconds the moment you walk in the door), actually end up lowering your confidence at times. They give you a lot to fear. They suck you in with some enticing advertisements that attack, if not do the worse thing and CREATE, insecurities, claim that you're missing out on a lot of secrets that women keep in "the game", and how you will end up being cheated on if you do not BUYYYYYY their material.

If you're into getting laid and trying to get some action, it may work. But if you're a romantic and want a long lasting relationship with someone you can get close to, develop an understanding with, and overall just attach to overtime, it's.... not your best option.
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Ballard

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #764 on: 20 Apr 2009, 16:37 »

If any internet lady is willing to contribute her thoughts, I could totally subscribe to this.

Every time I naively think I have this even a little figured out, I get my deserved reality slap in the face.
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Dazed

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #765 on: 20 Apr 2009, 16:56 »

Hey thread,

So, I have decided to break up with my girlfriend. What I need is advice on when to do this, see, she is in kind of an iffy place right now already; her grandmother is dying, and she's busy with a play she's choreographing and such. Basically, I'm trying not to be a dick and drop this on her along with everything else, but am I leading her on by waiting until things are a little less hectic? Should I just get it over with?
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Ballard

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #766 on: 20 Apr 2009, 17:27 »

I mean honestly, breaking up is breaking up. Often you will be a dick and be dropping this on her along with everything else. You just have to accept that if you're unhappy enough to consider a break-up.

As a general rule, don't be a martyr. Selflessness is a great quality but too often in relationships people martyr themselves under the guise of selflessness (and they may even be convinced that their intentions are pure) but really they just expect something back or enjoy feeling like the better person. It's a needy, emotionally unstable thing to do. I understand your need to "protect" her, but essentially you're just protecting her from you breaking up with her later, when she's more attached to you. This will only cause you both more pain in the long run.

If she's genuinely unstable right now and you think your breaking up with her could traumatize her or cause irreparable emotional or physical harm, tread carefully. If you're just afraid of doing it, take the plunge and don't look back.
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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #767 on: 20 Apr 2009, 19:08 »

I feel I have to add on to Gene's point. If you wait until things settle down for her, it's going to make it so much worse later. If you stick with her through this trying time, she's probably going to only develop deeper feelings for you. It's going to feel like an incredibly selfish thing to do, but it'll only hurt worse later.
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nobo

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #768 on: 20 Apr 2009, 19:40 »

Every time I naively think I have this even a little figured out, I get my deserved reality slap in the face.

I'm not an internet lady but I can tell you how I go about it. Women are just human beings. They have wants, desires, doubts, fears, just like you. Treat them with kindness and respect, and you will usually make a friend. And I have found that a relationship based on a friendship usually lasts longer and is more meaningful than just chasing a girl that you find attractive.
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Well yes but (sorry andy) she doesn't look half as fucking bad ass as this motherfucker in Poland.

Dude is hardcore.

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #769 on: 20 Apr 2009, 20:37 »

Continuing on the 'dump her now' trend, the people I've known in this situation before aren't always concerned about being nice to this person but about being a good person, which I often read in them to mean 'I'll feel bad if I do this now' and not 'it is the clearly morally superior option to stick through this for now'. Also they have been afraid of confrontation.
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Ballard

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #770 on: 20 Apr 2009, 20:47 »

Fear of confrontation is a pretty big part of the thought process of someone who is considering breaking up with their partner.

Last year, after breaking off an intense, long-term relationship, I innocently rebounded with a nice girl. After a few weeks, I began to realize my mistake and I felt anxious and trapped and unwilling. Still, it took so much convincing from people who know me best to finally get me do it. I would have taken any excuse to avoid having to break up with someone again so soon. It's incredibly emotionally draining.
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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #771 on: 20 Apr 2009, 21:38 »

In my early goings, I was always the dumpee or a it was a mutual thing, I technically never dumped anyone until I was nineteen. Unfortunately, the first girl I ever came to the conclusion I didn't want to be with her was sixteen (Yes, I was creepy McCreepshow just like Patrick), and that made it doubly hard. This girl was, by her understanding, head over heels in love with me. I was very aware that I was not, however, in love with her. I should've broken up with her the second she said it. Instead, I put it off for weeks as she grew more and more attached and started getting really creepy and stepping over many lines (Like trying to co-opt traditions I had with an ex she knew I wasn't entirely over) toward my birthday. When I finally broke up with her, she committed herself and then started calling me at work daily threatening to kill herself as soon as she got out. Note, not much was seriously wrong with her; she was just an insane and slightly unbalanced drama queen.

This all would've been avoided had I actually done the sensible thing and NOT continued dating someone I knew I wasn't that into, but was clearly into me.
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Ballard

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #772 on: 20 Apr 2009, 21:43 »

Well shit Jon don't scare the guy.
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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #773 on: 20 Apr 2009, 21:44 »

Scared straight, yo.
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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #774 on: 21 Apr 2009, 00:39 »

Every time I naively think I have this even a little figured out, I get my deserved reality slap in the face.

I'm not an internet lady but I can tell you how I go about it. Women are just human beings. They have wants, desires, doubts, fears, just like you. Treat them with kindness and respect, and you will usually make a friend. And I have found that a relationship based on a friendship usually lasts longer and is more meaningful than just chasing a girl that you find attractive.

There is an important thing that a lot of guys I know in real life don't remember.
Women are actual people, not just a couple wet holes to put your dick in. This is something that eludes quite a few males.
Now, this isn't to say that you can't hook up with someone. I am in a situation where I find a woman attractive physically, but I don't really like her political views, choices she made in the past, and her general thought on racism (she is a bit racist), but she's really fuckin hot, and she finds me attractive too.
A relationship would not work between us, but both of us like sex.
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nobo

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #775 on: 21 Apr 2009, 04:25 »


There is an important thing that a lot of guys I know in real life don't remember.
Women are actual people, not just a couple wet holes to put your dick in.

I think it goes both ways, you have to treat women like equals. Which means you can't treat them like wet holes, but you also can't sit there and worship them and jump at their every whim, thats probably the quickest way to get them to lose interest.

Also, being a gentlemen should be standard, not just to her but to all the girls in your life. When the one you're trying to impress sees how you treat others, she knows how good you will treat her.
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Well yes but (sorry andy) she doesn't look half as fucking bad ass as this motherfucker in Poland.

Dude is hardcore.

Jace

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #776 on: 21 Apr 2009, 05:48 »

Yeah, I try to be a pretty nice guy to everyone that I meet. Guys, lets just watch this video: Just a Nice Guy. It pretty much explains shit.
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Coffee_Kaioken

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #777 on: 21 Apr 2009, 06:56 »

Ahh, WongFu Productions.

I saw that 3-part series vid a while ago.

I don't think it's too ACCURATE, but it is still nice to watch.
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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #778 on: 21 Apr 2009, 07:04 »

I tried to watch that video but then my eyes started rolling at such a high speed they made a high pitched whirring noise.
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benji

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #779 on: 21 Apr 2009, 07:33 »

Also, being a gentlemen should be standard, not just to her but to all the girls in your life. When the one you're trying to impress sees how you treat others, she knows how good you will treat her.

You have to be careful with this. It really depends on the woman and on what you mean by being a gentlemen. Plenty of the women I know do not want to have doors held for them when they are perfectly capable of opening the door for themselves. My girlfriend (I guess I can actually call her that now) is happy if I pay for dinner, but only if I agree that she pays next time. A lot of the classic "gentlemanly" things grew out of a time when women were regarded as week and in need of protection. Many women are very aware of that and prefer to be approached on a more equal footing.

Now, if all your talking about it etiquette and courtesy, then you should be showing that to everyone regardless of what's between their legs.
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axerton

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #780 on: 21 Apr 2009, 08:07 »

I tried to watch that video but then my eyes started rolling at such a high speed they made a high pitched whirring noise.

I struggled through until he was to much of a prat to say no to his friend having just been asked out - seriously anyone who is that nice a person should be removed from the gene pool for their lack of killer instinct.

I have on multiple occasions been branded a "Nice Guy." This makes absolutely no sense to me as I have also been declared to be (not by the same people) a 'serial flirt' - a title I take somewhat more pride in than the former. I Also have a more gutter prone mind than anyone I know. Admittedly to an extent I still believe in chivalry and am a romantic in the sense that I don't do one night stands or meaningless sex. I wouldn't have thought that these ingredients all mixed together result in a Nice Guy but apparently....
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Josefbugman

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #781 on: 21 Apr 2009, 10:13 »

The problem with being "nice" is that its too often mistaken for "boring". People don't want to be bored (for the most part) and so try and go with someone who seems interesting and exciting. Usually these are "bad boys" who are anything except boring, they usually have charisma, and are usually at least slightly fun to look at. "Nice" does not bring to mind excitement, or fun or even intimacy, it simply implies doiles and wet afternoons spent with distant relatives where everyone goes 'well... isn't this nice'. The worse problem is that people who try and cultivate the image of the nice guy, being polite and considerate whilst deep down being scared and lonely and desperate for some sort of validiction of there sad lonely lives.

Thats not to say bad boys are any better (they are frequently worse) but its just to give a brief idea of why being nice isn't always a good thing.
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Alex C

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #782 on: 21 Apr 2009, 11:48 »

Being nice is virtually always a good thing. It's just that as you say being nice isn't enough all on its own. Too many idiots seem to think that being nice in and of itself entitles them to ladies. Sorry, but all other things things being equal, people are going to go with the person who is also successful, engaging and has interesting things going on in their life. Keep in mind that I'm not just defining "successful" as "having money" here, I'm defining it more as the ability to make goals and achieve them. Even if your goal is backpacking across the country and meeting new people despite being flat broke, it will still make you far more interesting than a guy who is just kinda aimless but "pretty nice." My success with ladies is pretty much directly proportional to how much energy and passion I have for the things I have going on in my life in general. It's great to be nice, but it shouldn't be the only damned thing on your dating resume.
« Last Edit: 21 Apr 2009, 11:56 by Alex C »
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benji

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #783 on: 21 Apr 2009, 11:57 »

Also, and it's amazing how often this has to be pointed out, being nice in order to get girls isn't really being nice.
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Lines

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #784 on: 21 Apr 2009, 16:54 »

I like nice boys who are sarcastic. It's like being a bad boy minus the bit where they're an asshole.
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nobo

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #785 on: 21 Apr 2009, 17:00 »

how bout a boy that generally a bad boy but is nice pretty much only to you?
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Well yes but (sorry andy) she doesn't look half as fucking bad ass as this motherfucker in Poland.

Dude is hardcore.

BrittanyMarie

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #786 on: 21 Apr 2009, 17:04 »

That's just worse! I'd rather have a bad boy who is a bad boy to everyone than having to constantly justify bad boy's actions. I get really uncomfortable when people are jerks to people I like, but I don't care if it's to me.

(having said that, I do like nice boys because I don't think they're boring and also sometimes they'll randomly give you an awesome record because you casually mentioned it once, that is way better than a bad boy)
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What about orgasmic chemistry.

I can expand the definition of that if anyone wants to roll around to my Fortress of Love.

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #787 on: 21 Apr 2009, 17:30 »

As far as I can see it, the most common form of "nice guy" syndrome tends to revolve around how transparent a guy is with his expression of sexual desire.  On the one hand we have the "jerks" who are always making their sexual desire the most prominent aspect of their interaction (and the motivation behind their actions), and they are "jerks" because they sacrifice respect for women in the name of getting laid.  On the other, we have "nice guys" who are rarely making their sexual desires known in interactions with women, and tend to bristle at the idea that sex is a prime motivation behind their actions, and they consider themselves "nice" because they sacrifice their own sexual expression in the name of respecting women.

The problem is that there is nothing inherently polite or respectful about hiding the fact that you want to have sex with someone.  Obviously it is rather rude in most cases to reveal and express sexual desire whenever you experience it, but there is nothing disrespectful about having sexually-charged intentions in a friendship.  And if you want to connect to someone you know on a sexual level, the best way to do it is to reveal that desire to them in a respectful fashion (instead of sitting on it and hoping they'll pick up on it and make some kind of move on you before you break down and give them a long and involved explanation of your feelings that makes you look significantly more pathetic and preoccupied than you probably really are as a person).

"Nice guys," as I understand the term, are guys who assume that "respecting women" means holding back their sexual desires and offering emotional support at every opportunity.  It's a terrible curse, really, and one that any sensible man should divest himself of rapidly.
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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #788 on: 21 Apr 2009, 18:56 »

I don't see it that way. I see nice guys as guys who are just outwardly polite, think of others, and are generally awesome. I know nice guys who are still verbal about their sexuality, but they aren't condescending, creepy, etc. about it. Basically the ones who make you uncomfortable about sex are not nice, but you can still be a nice guy and talk about sex.
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nobo

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #789 on: 21 Apr 2009, 19:32 »

See, here is the thing. If someone you aren't attracted to, but is a nice guy, brings up the fact that he wants to have sex with you... isn't that creepy? especially if you consider him just a friend?
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Well yes but (sorry andy) she doesn't look half as fucking bad ass as this motherfucker in Poland.

Dude is hardcore.

BrittanyMarie

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #790 on: 21 Apr 2009, 19:39 »

It depends; I'd want them to be honest about it right away, but in an "I like you" as opposed to "I'd like to fuck you" kind of way.
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What about orgasmic chemistry.

I can expand the definition of that if anyone wants to roll around to my Fortress of Love.

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #791 on: 21 Apr 2009, 19:42 »

See, here is the thing. If someone you aren't attracted to, but is a nice guy, brings up the fact that he wants to have sex with you... isn't that creepy? especially if you consider him just a friend?

Only if you don't like the idea of saying no to someone you don't want to say yes to.  If you're OK with saying no, you just say "thanks but no thanks" and continue on being as comfortable as you were earlier.
« Last Edit: 21 Apr 2009, 19:44 by onewheelwizzard »
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also at one point mid-sex she asked me "what do you think about commercialism in art?"

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #792 on: 21 Apr 2009, 20:21 »

You have to be careful with this. It really depends on the woman and on what you mean by being a gentlemen. Plenty of the women I know do not want to have doors held for them when they are perfectly capable of opening the door for themselves. My girlfriend (I guess I can actually call her that now) is happy if I pay for dinner, but only if I agree that she pays next time. A lot of the classic "gentlemanly" things grew out of a time when women were regarded as week and in need of protection. Many women are very aware of that and prefer to be approached on a more equal footing.

Now, if all your talking about it etiquette and courtesy, then you should be showing that to everyone regardless of what's between their legs.

See, I hold a door open for anyone just behind me no matter what sex they are. Letting a door close in someone's face is rude.

Also, I don't tend to let my female friends walk home alone through dodgy parts of the city if I can help it. Not sure if this would be considered a sexist thing, but I'm not about to stop doing it. 
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Yunior

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #793 on: 21 Apr 2009, 20:33 »

Hey, I am dating a nice boy and it is going okay!

Except he does not know how to dress himself, really.

Point being: nice boys can be nice, but also smart, funny, charming, sexy, interesting, and sweet. And plenty of other adjectives aside from nice. Actually, all I have concluded from this little tangent you boys are having is that you don't mind being nice, it is just the label that throws you a bit.
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[02:00] Dollface: whos awesome you are clara

Yunior

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #794 on: 21 Apr 2009, 20:36 »

Also, I find most bad boys are basically totally vapid and/or totally bourgeois. I dunno what most girls are into, but I generally try to avoid both.
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[02:00] Dollface: clara you are awesome
[02:00] clara: oh thanks dollface
[02:00] Dollface: whos awesome you are clara

Alex C

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #795 on: 21 Apr 2009, 22:32 »

I really do think it just comes down to people trying to save face by disparaging those who dump them. I've seen guys blame women for being dumb and only going after rich abusive assholes and I've seen women blame men for being stupid superficial pigs. Once or twice it's been fairly accurate but most of the time it's just people going abla bla bloo when it turned out the connection wasn't as strong as they thought it was. Most of the time "Nice" just happens to be an innocent bystander that gets trotted out when the dumper tries to let the dumpee down easy. I'd like to start a clarity in dumping initiative, but I don't think the girl I'm rapidly losing interest in would take "You're taking the fun out of sex" and "You're the most stubborn person I have ever dated" very well. I hate to say it, but it sounds like the conversation will start like this: "You're a nice person but..."
« Last Edit: 21 Apr 2009, 22:41 by Alex C »
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Ballard

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #796 on: 21 Apr 2009, 23:52 »

The last time I broke up with a girl I told her it was entirely because I had unwittingly rebounded and just wasn't ready to be in a relationship again without feeling anxious and trapped. In reality this was about 45% of the reason I broke up with her, the other 55% being that she was insufferably shallow, frustratingly boring, and had very little to offer as far as intellectual and emotional stimulation goes. There was also very little in the way of romance and the sex was not very good.

It's been seven months and she is still clinging on hoping that someday I'll be ready to get back together with her (I broke up with her twice; the first time she convinced me to give it another chance after a single day and I, being completely emotionally drained at the time, agreed). Next time, I think I'm just going to tell the truth.
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Jace

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #797 on: 22 Apr 2009, 01:45 »

So, I'm not a nice guy because I want to get laid. I'm a nice guy because it's the right thing to do.
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0bsessions

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #798 on: 22 Apr 2009, 07:14 »

Do you see the obvious mistake you made, Gene?

Never, ever, ever, EVER use "I was rebounding and I'm not ready for a relationship" as your given rationale for breaking up with someone. It will lead the other individual to think "well, maybe given time they'll come around." You need to be vaguely gentle, but honest and forthright about the fact it's not going to work out and leave the "rebound" out of it entirely. I've both held this mentality and dealt with a girl developing this mentality in my life and it's not pretty on either end. I mean, sure, you're making it relatively amicable sometimes, but most instances where it ends up amicable eventually becomes a situation where you're leaving someone hanging on to a false hope.

Note that being upfront about not being ready for a relationship IS something you should do if you actually like someone. I told Rachel right off the bat I wasn't ready, though it was months before I told her why, but I have to assume the fact I gave her modest expectations didn't hurt matters much all things considered. You just can't use it as a rationale for letting someone down easy, as it almost never works.
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Ballard

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Re: The Relationship, Or Lack Thereof, Advice Thread
« Reply #799 on: 22 Apr 2009, 08:03 »

I mean, it was true. I couldn't go outside and see pretty people without thinking "oh shit I am missing out". It had been barely a month since I broke up with my last girlfriend (a relationship that had lasted 9 months) and I was upfront with this new girl that I wasn't ready for a serious commitment. And yet, somehow, out of some stupid sense of altruism, I agreed to a relationship anyway.

Suffice it to say, I learned a lot of lessons in a short period of time last fall.
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I'm like the boy who cried "you guys are faggots"
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