Topic: Please, Just Let Me Die Already (Read 311011 times)

Dimmukane · « **Reply #1300 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 21:20 »

Good news, everyone! I may have lost them both anyways by trying to help strengthen their relationship! I fucked up real bad!

So I probably won't be bothering anyone in this thread for a while, basically.

Jimor · « **Reply #1301 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 21:24 »

@ NQG. Let me say first and foremost: You did good.

I know you were nervous about how you'd go about finding somebody, but going by what you said, the evening WAS successful, and don't let anything that happens after discourage you.

As for what's going on now, I'd say warily go with it. She may be actually busy and distracted, she might have been just trying out the service, and is now having cold feet, she might be a bitch.

So follow through on trying to make plans, but don't be hugely surprised if this fizzles. But again, I want to emphasize that if that happens, it's not a reflection on you. If you had come off badly in her eyes, there are plenty of defense mechanisms women have to stop things at a certain point and call it a night far short of what you described.

So look at this as a positive first step no matter how this particular situation plays out. Either you'll finally connect with her, or you'll take what you've learned and do even better next time.

@Dimmukane. Sorry to hear that.

NeverQuiteGoth · « **Reply #1302 on:** 22 Jun 2009, 23:46 »

Quote from: Jimor on 22 Jun 2009, 21:24

I know you were nervous about how you'd go about finding somebody, but going by what you said, the evening WAS successful, and don't let anything that happens after discourage you.

Well, there's precedent. It always seems to go well at first and then the girl pulls away.

Here's a slightly dumb but fun question:
Physically, my "type" or ideal girl is pale, petite, and straight black hair, but of the six or so girls I've managed to attract in the course of my life, only one wasn't a chubby caucasian with auburn hair. Why do seemingly most of the women who are attracted to me fit that second description?

It seems a little strange.

Eris · « **Reply #1303 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 00:20 »

Wait, so what I got from what you said is you met this girl and talked to her online first, then met up and that day made out and she wanted to call you her boyfriend. Is that right, or was there a time period in between the meeting in real life and the makeouts and the boyfriend calling?

Also, if you are super OCD about people when you want to have sex with them, wouldn't you have some similar things to people you are making out with?

NeverQuiteGoth · « **Reply #1304 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 01:11 »

Quote from: Eris on 23 Jun 2009, 00:20

Wait, so what I got from what you said is you met this girl and talked to her online first, then met up and that day made out and she wanted to call you her boyfriend. Is that right, or was there a time period in between the meeting in real life and the makeouts and the boyfriend calling?

The former, we've only been together in person the once.

Quote

Also, if you are super OCD about people when you want to have sex with them, wouldn't you have some similar things to people you are making out with?

Yes, but what does that have to do with anything? Or what are you asking?

Eris · « **Reply #1305 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 01:27 »

Then why didn't you just say you went on one date and now she's not calling you back?

Also, the OCD question was because it didn't seem to make sense, in that you will go to such extreme lengths about what the lady touches when you want to have sex, but will get to third base with a girl after meeting her in person for the first time.

Dimmukane · « **Reply #1306 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 11:03 »

Better news, everyone! I'm not fucked! I still have some amends to make, but I'm forgiven! Everyone lives happily ever after!

Professor Snuggles · « **Reply #1307 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 11:10 »

Quote from: Mynah on 20 Jun 2009, 23:20

Hello, lovely people of the relationship advice thread.

So, in a nutshell, yesterday I was supposed to get married, but my fiance decided at the rehearsal that he wasn't comfortable marrying me. There was a lot of crying involved, to say the least. I then told him I needed some time away from him, and that he needed to pack his things and go live at his mother's house for a while, which he has done. I think I am in the right to ask for this, and he has expressed that he thinks I am, too.

I am not intending this to be a permanent break-up, and I don't think he is, either, which leads me to the issue. My entire family, and many of my friends, are extremely angry at him, even though they were the ones telling him, "No one will be angry with you if you decide not to get married." Now, they are telling me terrible things such as, "He just isn't marriage material," and, "If he kills himself, it's not your problem," and, "Don't worry about breaking his things. In fact, why don't we go have a bonfire?" I know they are trying to cheer me up, but they are really just making me even more upset than I already am.

So, the question I am asking you guys is this: Is it really that strange for me to expect us to get back together at some point after things have been worked out? I mean, my entire family loved him before this, and now it's like they're talking about a different person. If all of them are reacting this way, shouldn't I be angry too? My thinking is that, even though his timing was most definitely not okay, he wasn't being malicious. He wasn't trying to hurt me. He did hurt me very much, which is why I need some time apart from him, but his intentions were not evil. Am I in denial, like my family says? Are they just batshit insane? What would the normal reaction be to this situation? I think that three months or so of staying apart from each other and working things out on our own, followed by some casual dates for maybe a year or so, and then seeing what happens would be reasonable, but my family thinks that is far too generous. What do you think? He and I seem to be on the same page. He has apologized for hurting me so much and accepted that he was the one in the wrong, and he has, so far, played by my rules. He has removed his things from my apartment, he has not tried to contact me (I asked him not to), and he has promised that, if I call his mother, he will not answer the phone, so that I can sort some minor details out with her without having to face him. Is it wrong for me to see and understand that he is trying? Please tell me whether or not I'm the crazy one.

Professor Snuggles · « **Reply #1308 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 11:11 »

Quote from: NeverQuiteGoth on 22 Jun 2009, 23:46

Quote from: Jimor on 22 Jun 2009, 21:24
I know you were nervous about how you'd go about finding somebody, but going by what you said, the evening WAS successful, and don't let anything that happens after discourage you.
Well, there's precedent. It always seems to go well at first and then the girl pulls away.

Here's a slightly dumb but fun question:
Physically, my "type" or ideal girl is pale, petite, and straight black hair, but of the six or so girls I've managed to attract in the course of my life, only one wasn't a chubby caucasian with auburn hair. Why do seemingly most of the women who are attracted to me fit that second description? It seems a little strange.

I bet a picture of you would answer that question right fuccin quick.

Barmymoo · « **Reply #1309 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 12:06 »

It's great to know that there are still pleasant, tactful people who can be relied upon to offer helpful advice, or keep their mouths shut when they can't in good conscience say something nice. God forbid that someone could get so arrogant that they might forget that other people actually do have feelings and it isn't helpful to trample all over them. Thank goodness for such a shining example of polite, thoughtful and genuinely nice ways to reply to people asking serious questions about issues that matter to them.

NQG, girls are weird. I would say that if she came over and it went well that is a good sign that she did like you, and the fact that she hasn't been hugely communicative isn't a clear sign that she doesn't. She might just be busy; leave it a while longer before you start worrying and don't extrapolate the facts until you're imagining huge things that you have no proof for, like her just messing you around. On the other hand if it does turn out that she is a fickle-minded girl who has changed her mind about her feelings for you, at least you had a good time for a while and you proved to yourself that you can be close to a girl. Even failed relationships and flings are good experience.

Mynah, that is such an incredibly complicated situation, I feel for you. You're probably right that your family are trying to cheer you up but if it isn't working then you're right to tell them that. I hope things go well; just remember that your feelings are no less valid just because no one else shares them. You're the only person who can decide whether you want him back.

And now a question from me: my friend has just started seeing a boy she's been into for a while, and she's suddenly got all weird and distant. I don't mean she doesn't hang out with us any more, she does, but she is being all aloof and not participating in jokes and stuff, and she uncharacteristically won't talk about things. Should I just hope she gets back to normal eventually or talk to her? I doubt she's doing it deliberately but it's irritating me and ruining my pleasure at her having finally got things sorted with him (he's a great guy).

Mynah · « **Reply #1310 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 12:11 »

@ Prof. Snuggles

Whatever you are trying to say by quoting me and not replying went completely over my head. Are you having the same issue, or is there a joke somewhere that I missed?

Reed · « **Reply #1311 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 12:18 »

Barmy, some people will get really caught up in themselves when they start a new relationship, so you probably don't have to worry about it. If it's someone she's really excited about she may just be unintentionally ignoring all of you while she focuses on it. Give her some time, but if she doesn't eventually snap out of it, you should probably tell her to cut that shit out. Nobody likes hanging out with someone who just drags down the group's interaction.

NeverQuiteGoth · « **Reply #1312 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 15:08 »

Quote from: Eris on 23 Jun 2009, 01:27

Then why didn't you just say you went on one date and now she's not calling you back?

Because that is not at all descriptive of my situation.

Quote

Also, the OCD question was because it didn't seem to make sense, in that you will go to such extreme lengths about what the lady touches when you want to have sex, but will get to third base with a girl after meeting her in person for the first time.

She told me that she gets tested regularly and that she hadn't had sex since her last test. I believe her.
Sexy stuff itself doesn't set off my OCD to badly.
Besides, I didn't let her into my pants. Not that it really came up. She didn't insist on reciprocating or anything.

Quote from: Professor Snuggles on 23 Jun 2009, 11:11

I bet a picture of you would answer that question right fuccin quick.

There.

Dimmukane · « **Reply #1313 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 16:12 »

Don't worry about him much, he's kind of a prick to nearly everybody.

est · « **Reply #1314 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 18:11 »

And NQG isn't? I am really finding it hard to not be a prick to him too, as he has been a bit of a jerk to pretty much everyone who's tried to help him in this thread.

NQG, there is pretty much nothing wrong with the way you look, so any problem you've got picking up the ladies must be related to either your aforementioned problems finding appropriate settings to find people you're interested in or your attitude toward them after you've found someone you're interested in. I don't know you from Adam, but if the way you talk to people in RL is anything like the way you have been reacting to people's well-meaning suggestions in this thread it may be more to do with the latter.

NeverQuiteGoth · « **Reply #1315 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 18:24 »

Quote from: est on 23 Jun 2009, 18:11

And NQG isn't? I am really finding it hard to not be a prick to him too, as he has been a bit of a jerk to pretty much everyone who's tried to help him in this thread.

NQG, there is pretty much nothing wrong with the way you look, so any problem you've got picking up the ladies must be related to either your aforementioned problems finding appropriate settings to find people you're interested in or your attitude toward them after you've found someone you're interested in. I don't know you from Adam, but if the way you talk to people in RL is anything like the way you have been reacting to people's well-meaning suggestions in this thread it may be more to do with the latter.

Can we not get into this again? There is only the one situation where I'm a jerk in this thread, and that's when someone sets off my pet peeve of "suggesting" that I "get out more", "put myself out there", or any other variation on that theme. Seeing as how none of my questions for the past several months have had anything to do with "how to meet women", is it so much to ask that that not be continually thrown in my face?

nobo · « **Reply #1316 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 18:58 »

NQG - you look like someone that has swords in his house, and wishes The Crow was about him.

That said, I'm glad to hear your date went well.

Zingoleb · « **Reply #1317 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 19:08 »

What's wrong with having swords in your house?

Cire27 · « **Reply #1318 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 20:30 »

So what do you do when your best friend hooks up with the girl you went through a lot of shit with and lost your virginity to?

nobo · « **Reply #1319 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 20:46 »

Quote from: Cire27 on 23 Jun 2009, 20:30

So what do you do when your best friend hooks up with the girl you went through a lot of shit with and lost your virginity to?

imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

Quote from: Zingoleb on 23 Jun 2009, 19:08

What's wrong with having swords in your house?

were you ever into The Highlander series?

Zingoleb · « **Reply #1320 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 20:58 »

No...not as of yet...

(I barely watch any movies)

Nodaisho · « **Reply #1321 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 21:00 »

Didn't expect I would ever be posting in this thread, but I need some advice, due to my lack of comprehension of unwritten social rules, or social skills in general.

So there is a girl that I knew in elementary school, we were pretty much best friends for a couple of years. Then we both end up transferring to different schools, not keeping in touch, I don't see her for years. Earlier this year, I end up meeting her again by coincidence, and we have been talking since, and have hung out together a few times. I want to ask her out, but we have only seen each other face to face four times recently, including the time we ran into each other unintentionally. How often should we spend time with each other before I ask her out, to avoid seeming like I'm creepy or over-eager? And for the love of God, what the hell am I supposed to look for to tell if she seems to be interested in me?

Mynah · « **Reply #1322 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 22:24 »

Quote from: Nodaisho on 23 Jun 2009, 21:00

Didn't expect I would ever be posting in this thread, but I need some advice, due to my lack of comprehension of unwritten social rules, or social skills in general.

So there is a girl that I knew in elementary school, we were pretty much best friends for a couple of years. Then we both end up transferring to different schools, not keeping in touch, I don't see her for years. Earlier this year, I end up meeting her again by coincidence, and we have been talking since, and have hung out together a few times. I want to ask her out, but we have only seen each other face to face four times recently, including the time we ran into each other unintentionally. How often should we spend time with each other before I ask her out, to avoid seeming like I'm creepy or over-eager? And for the love of God, what the hell am I supposed to look for to tell if she seems to be interested in me?

I think that it doesn't really matter how much time you spend together before you ask her out on a date. Especially if you've known her in the past, even if it was just elementary school. If it seems like she's enjoyed the time that she has spent with you, asking her out on a date should be fine. I mean, lots of guys ask girls that they just barely met out on dates, so I don't see why it would be creepy to ask someone you already know out on a date.

As for what you should look for to tell if she's interested, I have no idea how to help you there. I think it varies too much from person to person.

Slick · « **Reply #1323 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 22:42 »

Mynah dear those images in your sig might you mind not using them? I mean it's just in the forum manifesto and all not to have the images in the signature because we here all are just anally retentive (to use a terrible idea of freud's) about that kind of stuff and they just aren't quite necessary you see and no one else uses the images in the sigs here and it keeps things nice and readable and things.

pwhodges · « **Reply #1324 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 00:03 »

You can set your view of the forum to not display signatures. Most of them are not worth reading twenty times a thread, and they just increase the scrolling; and if you want to see one because it comes up in conversation, it's in the person's profile.

Mynah · « **Reply #1325 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 02:31 »

Oh, sorry, I didn't know that. I'll remove them asap. Thanks for letting me know.

NeverQuiteGoth · « **Reply #1326 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 03:01 »

Quote from: nobo on 23 Jun 2009, 18:58

NQG - you look like someone that has swords in his house, and wishes The Crow was about him.

ROFL
I have a scottish claymore, a blunted bastard broadsword, and the heron blade from Wheel of Time.
And I thought The Crow was entertaining but not that great of a movie. But I only saw it the once. on tv. Wasn't it based on a graphic novel or something?

Quote

That said, I'm glad to hear your date went well.

Thanks, but I don't think its going anywhere. Well, actually, I can't really tell. I know almost nothing about her, and at the rate we're going getting to know her will take... longer than I'm willing to spend.

Lines · « **Reply #1327 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 05:23 »

Relations don't just happen overnight. Getting to know someone takes time. Granted it does sound like she's not really giving you the opportunity, but just wait a bit and see what happens. Try again to get together and if that doesn't work out because of her, then yes, you should probably just try again with someone else.

Jace · « **Reply #1328 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 07:43 »

Completely ignore her for a few days, then send her a text message that just like "hey, whats up" or some such super casual thing. I found this worked well because the girl contacted me before I could get back to her. I didn't mean to ignore her, I was just dealing with life, but a little while later she was like "hey, you stopped talking to me, don't you like me."

Protip: you can't just say please to get the girl to cheat on her boyfriend with you (although you are pretty good friends with her and you guys play it off as a joke all the time even though she told you she wants to hook up more when she is in a relationship).
Addendum: When you try to break the girl and her shitty boyfriend up, she mentions how much she loves him and how he is the only thing that makes her happy despite how they argue everyday and the relationship seems to be based upon sex. When you say fuck it, and try to help her with their relationship, it leads to how she is thinking he might not be the one even though she loves him. This is the one who has sent you pictures of her in a bathing suit, underwear and just recently: schoolgirl outfit.
Third Strike, fight for the future: Girl is super involved in a youth group at church but has a crush on you, you have a crush on her. She can never go out alone (has to be with sisters, all older. They also can't go out alone) or on dates because of her wacky religious parents.
Fourth Dimension, 4-player super mario: Concert/House Party on Friday wherein friend in band promises that you'll meet a fly hunny, skeptical at best after previous attempts through him. See his ex girlfriend, the girlfriend after that's friend who was into somebody else already.

The above is pretty much the rundown on my relationship statuses with all girls I talk to. I am utterly confused.

calenlass · « **Reply #1329 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 08:35 »

Quote from: Linds on 24 Jun 2009, 05:23

Relations don't just happen overnight.

This is true! Sometimes they happen in the middle of the day! Or sometimes you just can't spend all night engaged in relations. And they don't always happen in a bedroom or even on a couch! Sometimes they happen in the bathroom, or in a car, or if you are adventurous maybe outside!

Reed · « **Reply #1330 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 08:39 »

We've already established that the best relations are those that occur in a parking lot

20 jazz funk greats · « **Reply #1331 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 08:46 »

Quote from: PantsFTW on 24 Jun 2009, 07:43

Protip: you can't just say please to get the girl to cheat on her boyfriend with you (although you are pretty good friends with her and you guys play it off as a joke all the time even though she told you she wants to hook up more when she is in a relationship).
Addendum: When you try to break the girl and her shitty boyfriend up, she mentions how much she loves him and how he is the only thing that makes her happy despite how they argue everyday and the relationship seems to be based upon sex. When you say fuck it, and try to help her with their relationship, it leads to how she is thinking he might not be the one even though she loves him. This is the one who has sent you pictures of her in a bathing suit, underwear and just recently: schoolgirl outfit.

you seem really bitter about this.
has it ever occurred to you that their relationship is better than she's making it out to be, (if you only ever hear about the negative aspects of the relationship obviously you are going to think her boyfriend is a horrible person. but he may not be!) and that's why she doesn't actually hook up with you, despite making suggestive remarks and sending you sexy photos?

calenlass · « **Reply #1332 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 08:54 »

Bitch sounds like a bitch. Also deluded, because she thinks that there is a The One.

phooey · « **Reply #1333 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 09:59 »

You heard it here first, pal

Jace · « **Reply #1334 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 16:44 »

Quote from: 20 jazz funk greats on 24 Jun 2009, 08:46

Quote from: PantsFTW on 24 Jun 2009, 07:43
Protip: you can't just say please to get the girl to cheat on her boyfriend with you (although you are pretty good friends with her and you guys play it off as a joke all the time even though she told you she wants to hook up more when she is in a relationship).
Addendum: When you try to break the girl and her shitty boyfriend up, she mentions how much she loves him and how he is the only thing that makes her happy despite how they argue everyday and the relationship seems to be based upon sex. When you say fuck it, and try to help her with their relationship, it leads to how she is thinking he might not be the one even though she loves him. This is the one who has sent you pictures of her in a bathing suit, underwear and just recently: schoolgirl outfit.

you seem really bitter about this.
has it ever occurred to you that their relationship is better than she's making it out to be, (if you only ever hear about the negative aspects of the relationship obviously you are going to think her boyfriend is a horrible person. but he may not be!) and that's why she doesn't actually hook up with you, despite making suggestive remarks and sending you sexy photos?

Well, I know the dude. He used to be kind of a douche, and it has now been confirmed to me by the girl I was talking about in the Protip (it is two different girls, but they know each other and don't talk to each other), that he is kind of a pussy now. That leads me to wonder if he is still as much of a racist as he used to be. Dude once told me that I was turning into a monkey because of all the "nigger music" (his words) on the radio station that I had playing. He also said similar things when we were in school together about the black girls in class. I reevaluated our friendship after I graduated (like 5 months after I met him, we didn't hang out outside of school as much) and stopped talking to him. Last I heard of the dude he was a horrible person. His girlfriend isn't helping me change my mind.
But like I said, I try to be a terrible person and break them up, and she is madly in love. I say "okay that's cool, maybe you are right for each other" and she starts telling me all the problems she has with him. I mostly talk about music to her now, it is a lot simpler.

tania · « **Reply #1335 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 17:13 »

Quote from: calenlass on 24 Jun 2009, 08:54

Also deluded, because she thinks that there is a The One.

lots and lots of people think this, dude. lots of them also have really healthy and happy relationships with their partners. calling them all deluded cos you don't agree with them is pretty harsh!
i think the main problem with jace's friend's scenario is that (from the sound of things) the guy she's with isn't even right for her to begin with because she can't make a solid decision about what she wants and her relationship sucks and is full of problems.

calenlass · « **Reply #1336 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 21:28 »

Calling them all deluded is my opinion, because that is what I believe. I think that people believe in soul mates and true love and Mr Right and The One because of popular media and silly romanticism. I think that people believe in this stuff because there is certainly something that makes people do crazy things like commit love-suicide or cheat on their spouses or feel like they will die because the object of their obsession is gone for a week, and because there is this real emotional component it is easier to believe in than angels or faeries or elves or anything else people wish actually existed. I think it is also an excuse, because this way people can tell themselves that they just haven't found the right person yet, and if their relationships don't end up in a happily ever after it's because the other person wasn't the "right one", not because they themselves did it wrong. It is a failsafe to keep from having to work too hard or put too much effort into a relationship, because clearly the components will not have an enduring, fulfilling relationship if they are not ideally suited to each other.

Thousands of years of arranged marriage kind of point to the fact that you can be happy and have a full life and loving spouse even if you didn't get struck by lightning when you saw them for the first time. That educated, reasonable people with plenty of resources in India and the Philippines and lots of other places know of both alternatives and still choose to have someone else pick for them AND that their divorce rate is practically nonexistant just tells me that they are doing something in the way that they conduct their lives that we just don't get.

Basically what I am saying is that Happily Ever After does not just happen, and the people who think that it does and that it requires negligible input on their part are deluding themselves. This is strictly my opinion, and no one is required to share it. However, if you're aiming for a 75th anniversary at some point in your life, and you expect to get there because of Prince Charming and a fairy tale, you have got some serious rethinking to do.

calenlass · « **Reply #1337 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 21:53 »

Incidentally, the fact that this particular delusion bothers me so much is just a personal quirk. People delude themselves about all sorts of shit, most of it really really important, like emotions and grief that they bury instead of addressing or when something bothers them continuously over a long period of time and they just bottle it up instead of expressing it, or whatever it is (social conditioning? personality?) that inspires passive aggression and makes that seem ok, or how people hurt each other when they get angry because they feel it will somehow even the score and make them feel better. Insecurities, superiority complexes, and arrogance are all based in personal delusions.

We kind of don't look at ourselves in the mirror straight on, know what I mean? That is all I am saying. I just dislike this one in particular. I had to pick one, see, because there are too many to worry about all at once.

Yunior · « **Reply #1338 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 22:31 »

It seems to me as though Tania understood it to be your opinion, but was moreover just pointing it out as a pretty harsh opinion to hold of a big group of people who, all told, occasionally wind up in a successful relationship and are happy about it.

calenlass · « **Reply #1339 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 22:32 »

Ignorance is bliss, I guess?

Yunior · « **Reply #1340 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 22:36 »

Sometimes happiness is just happiness, though.

Yunior · « **Reply #1341 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 22:42 »

More exactly, sometimes we do not need to weigh happiness down with the crime of being totally vapid or anti-intellectual or whatever.

tania · « **Reply #1342 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 22:58 »

i can't see how it's all that hard to, when you find yourself in a relationship that is really perfect with someone you are completely compatible with in every way, start to think that maybe you guys were meant to be together. i don't believe in destiny or soulmates or any of that stuff either but if someone who does believes that because they happen to have a way healthy and happier relationship than i do who am i to criticism them? sometimes people just really unconditionally love each other, it can't be all that hard.

Cire27 · « **Reply #1343 on:** 24 Jun 2009, 23:07 »

Quote from: calenlass on 24 Jun 2009, 21:28

Thousands of years of arranged marriage kind of point to the fact that you can be happy and have a full life and loving spouse even if you didn't get struck by lightning when you saw them for the first time. That educated, reasonable people with plenty of resources in India and the Philippines and lots of other places know of both alternatives and still choose to have someone else pick for them AND that their divorce rate is practically nonexistant just tells me that they are doing something in the way that they conduct their lives that we just don't get..

While I agree with you about The One, you do know that for thousands of years it was impossible to divorce your spouse? In India, when a woman's spouse died, she had to kill herself to be with her husband. It was the law.

supersheep · « **Reply #1344 on:** 25 Jun 2009, 04:59 »

Quote from: Cire27 on 24 Jun 2009, 23:07

While I agree with you about The One, you do know that for thousands of years it was impossible to divorce your spouse? In India, when a woman's spouse died, she had to kill herself to be with her husband. It was the law.

Not really true - it was really just a small portion of high-caste women in and around Bombay that did this. Also I'm fairly sure that it was one of those invented traditions that really only became popular as a way of defining yourself against the Other - much like how purdah became more important after the Brits arrived, for example.

calenlass · « **Reply #1345 on:** 25 Jun 2009, 05:20 »

Also that particular people did that because the women were so dependent upon men for everything that without them they were completely ruined and had no means of survival. While culture can be weird, I am pretty sure lots of those women did it voluntarily rather than be faced with a life of squalor and ritual pollution. I don't agree with it, but I was talking more about the people there within the past five or six generations who knew of other alternatives and still chose for their parents to find a spouse for them, because the parents had so much more experience in that area than they did.

Also, I completely agree with you, Tania, except that I don't think unconditional love is involuntary, either. However, I think that by whatever process you get there, it's nice to know that sometimes you can get past all the crap like jealousy and obsession that "love" usually brings with it.

~~mehmeh~~ · « **Reply #1346 on:** 25 Jun 2009, 10:26 »

Quote from: calenlass on 25 Jun 2009, 05:20

Also that particular people did that because the women were so dependent upon men for everything that without them they were completely ruined and had no means of survival. While culture can be weird, I am pretty sure lots of those women did it voluntarily rather than be faced with a life of squalor and ritual pollution.

Whose fault was it that the women were dependent on the men, and would have no means of survival if their husband died? Whose fault would the culturally-imposed "squalor and ritual pollution" be? I'm not 100% sure what your point here is. It looks looks like you are justifying the suttee because it was culturally acceptable to the men (even though you state you disagree with it), but I really hope I am just misunderstanding you.

Quote from: calenlass on 25 Jun 2009, 05:20

I don't agree with it, but I was talking more about the people there within the past five or six generations who knew of other alternatives and still chose for their parents to find a spouse for them, because the parents had so much more experience in that area than they did.

Sorry, still not buying it. Societies with arranged marriages, and societies where divorce is prohibited or extremely taboo, do not demonstrate that marriage without an initial connection of love is a good idea.

I think I understand your broader point (that waiting for "true love" like in a Disney movie is stupid, and that relationships require work) but pointing to societies with horrific records of women's rights does not help your point.

Sox · « **Reply #1347 on:** 25 Jun 2009, 11:15 »

I don't really think that the idea of "the one" is that all that crazy. Instead of saying "the one", say "person I'm going to spend the rest of my life with". The idea that there is one person out there you're destined to be with, and if you miss them that's it, you missed your shot at happiness, that's crazy. But when people say "the one", they're not talking about destiny or Disney or happily ever after. They're talking about a person they want to spend the rest of their life with, that they'll put the effort into. Somebody else who feels exactly the same way about them.
If two people have that mutual attraction and desire, why shouldn't they be able to spend the rest of their lives together? And why shouldn't they be 'the one'?

There's billions of people, and any number of them could be a person you could spend the rest of your life with. But when you get that feeling, when you find that relationship, it's the only one.
The only one.
The one.

Alex C · « **Reply #1348 on:** 25 Jun 2009, 11:18 »

I don't really think of love as the quasi-mystical thing put on Hallmark cards, but I've definitely been with someone I would have been willing to at least try spending the rest of my life with.

Sox · « **Reply #1349 on:** 25 Jun 2009, 11:20 »

Would you consider her "a one"?

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