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Author Topic: America's Children - real lippy?  (Read 5853 times)

clockworkjames

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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #50 on: 04 Mar 2009, 17:42 »

Of course.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #51 on: 04 Mar 2009, 17:59 »

I don't think there are any circumstances at all that warrant the reaction/actions that the cop in question did.  So what she was lippy.  So what she called you fat.  A bloo bloo bloo, you're a fucking police officer.  Dry your fucking eyes and get back to your job, which is protecting lippy little teenagers from the actual bad guys in a professional and respectful manner.  If this guy doesn't know that an unfortunate part of his job entails taking shit from people with patience and a firm but polite "Ma'am, I'm gonna have to ask you again to (etc etc)" then he doesn't have the right temperament for the job.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #52 on: 04 Mar 2009, 18:35 »

No, we have a blurb at the top of a one sided interview with the girl and nothing involving the context or a statement from the others involved.
Man it's pretty fucking difficult to call that video "out of context".
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #53 on: 04 Mar 2009, 19:19 »

Yeah, I'd call that a bit of a stretch here. I mean, she's standing there with her arms crossed and is within the confines of the cell when he charges back in and proceeds to take her down before adding in a few parting shots for good measure. The whole thing strikes me as rather blatant.

Honestly, I'm not really a pacifism at all costs kind of guy. For example, I get why the officer who shot Nathan Gale at that Damage Plan concert acted as he did. I mean, it was regrettable, particularly considering that Gale was a paranoid schizophrenic, but considering he had already killed few people and was in the process of firing into a crowd, I'm willing to accept it as sad but appropriate. There's really no way I could bring myself to reasonably argue that the officer second guessing himself would have resulted in less deaths. So, yeah, there's probably all sorts of hypothetical scenarios and stories someone could come up with where I could be convinced that it's OK to manhandle or even shoot someone in a given scenario. But unfortunately for Deputy Asshole here, I don't see how that has much bearing on this particular situation.
« Last Edit: 04 Mar 2009, 19:21 by Alex C »
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #54 on: 04 Mar 2009, 20:02 »

After being involved in TWO fatal shootings that cop should have had a desk job, if not after the first one.  His days of interacting with the public should have been over long before this.

Now I understand what you mean, but try and understand that there are a lot of variables that go into why a cop might shoot more than one person. I had a friend in Baton Rouge who had shot six or seven (can't remember) people over the years. He worked the roughest part of BR, and he had served 28 years. Not once did he ever joke about it, or say anything but that he did everything he could think of to avoid it but he wasn't going to die or let someone else die because some asshole couldn't control himself. We didn't talk a whole lot about it--which led me to believe he, like me, felt remorse over what he'd done. If you are doing a dangerous job, in dangerous places, you are likely to find yourself in danger. And that sometimes mean you have to shoot people. Most cops never have to shoot anyone. But for some reason the cops who do, often do so more than once. There are a number of theories about why this happens. It seems to be related to willingness to shoot rather than actual enjoyment. And proximity to violent criminals makes a difference as well. Less police shootings in Beverly Hills than Compton sort of thing.

Not all cops are bad guys. Not all bad guys are cops. There is the potential for both when you give someone legal authority and a gun. But most cops are doing it because they want to help people. Anyway, I just thought I would put my two bits in about proper response to a cop's shooting people. By federal law they are required to be pulled from the street until an investigation into the shooting is complete. He was back out on the street, leading me to believe that at least a police commission (and sometimes a grand jury) had cleared him of wrongdoing. It's not like he had a license to kill ,you know?


A bloo bloo bloo, you're a fucking police officer.
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tania

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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #55 on: 04 Mar 2009, 20:15 »

They have been given authority in large part because we as citizens expect them to act in a reasonable manner even when other people wouldn't.

this is really important! this is why i that there is almost no scenario in which this would have been a reasonable response. maybe for me, personally, there are possible instances in which i'd lose my temper and respond that way, but that's why i'm not a cop and i don't have a badge or a gun. there's a reason you pick those specific people and not just anybody to give that kind of authority and power, or at least there should be.
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RallyMonkey

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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #56 on: 04 Mar 2009, 21:45 »

I work in law enforcement, and the bullshit these guys have to put up with just to do their jobs is intense.  There's no sound on the video and no side of the story EXCEPT FROM THE GIRL.  We don't know how she had been acting up to that point.  What if she was refusing to do what the deputy said?  What if she'd assaulted him earlier in the night?

I am trying to defend you, and those who share your occupation, but statements like this make it very difficult. Do you truly believe that any of those examples you've given would warrant anywhere close to the reaction they received? I can really think of absolutely no situation, no actions that the girl could have taken beforehand, that would make the reaction of the cop make more sense than simply closing the door she was standing behind.
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tania

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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #57 on: 05 Mar 2009, 06:30 »

from a practical stance there is also a pretty solid positive correlation between crime rates and how much legitimacy and respect people have for police. as a cop, you won't make all crime disappear forever by being nice to people but if you're trying to do your job and reduce crime rates, a good way to start is by just being reasonable and setting a really good example. good community policing requires a lot of coopertation from the public and if you don't treat people like shit, not only might they stop hating you, they might even want to cooperate with you and like... be on your side. crazy stuff, i know.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #58 on: 05 Mar 2009, 18:36 »

I'm not defending the cop's actions, especially not the apparent shots to the head after the girl was down. Those appear fairly bush league.

All I'm saying is that this is the type of bullshit that GOOD cops have to deal with every day on the job.  They get spit on, yelled at, and not cooperated with because of things like this.  The hundreds of thousands of GOOD cops out there have to deal with the fallout of THOUSANDS of people that are angry over ONE guy did.

People lose their cool all the time, in every occupation.  Giving a person a gun and a badge doesn't change the person from a human to a robot.  The gun and badge only raise the expectations of the common man.  Yes, they have training.  Training only goes so far.  In few other professions does one bad apple ruin the bunch so much.  It only takes one of these stories to get thousands of people to start yelling "fuck the police."  I mean shit, just look at this thread.

It may be a bit extreme, but shit; if you said "fuck the ________" to every profession where someone beat the shit out of someone who didn't deserve it, you'd be sitting at home cowering in a cormer fearing everyone in the world.

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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #59 on: 05 Mar 2009, 18:50 »

i think most of the people in this thread have been defending police officers, actually, or at least have only criticized this specific one. maybe it didn't come across in my posts but for the most part i have immense respect for them and what they do. i just don't respect the ones that exhibit this kind of behavior, which in all honesty i find completely repulsive and unforgivable. there are good cops, but he isn't one of them and after this he shouldn't be allowed to call himself a cop at all.
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Ozymandias

Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #60 on: 05 Mar 2009, 19:28 »

It may be a bit extreme, but shit; if you said "fuck the ________" to every profession where someone beat the shit out of someone who didn't deserve it, you'd be sitting at home cowering in a cormer fearing everyone in the world.

Yeah.

But there's only a few professions where beating the shit out of someone can result in no punishment at all and let you continue doing you job.

Which is worrisome.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #61 on: 05 Mar 2009, 19:36 »

It may be a bit extreme, but shit; if you said "fuck the ________" to every profession where someone beat the shit out of someone who didn't deserve it, you'd be sitting at home cowering in a cormer fearing everyone in the world.

Yeah.

But there's only a few professions where beating the shit out of someone can result in no punishment at all and let you continue doing you job.

Which is worrisome.

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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #62 on: 05 Mar 2009, 19:42 »

Taiwan's parliament
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #63 on: 05 Mar 2009, 19:45 »

Yeah.

But there's only a few professions where beating the shit out of someone can result in no punishment at all and let you continue doing you job.

Which is worrisome.
I think that comes down at least partially to corruption, or some misguided notion that being a part of the thin blue line requires you to back up scumbags because they have a badge. I get trying to support your fellow cop, but there is a point at which it ceases to be brotherhood and begins to be accessoryhood.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #64 on: 05 Mar 2009, 19:48 »

Fairly influential unions also have a habit of strenuously defending their least valuable members. This applies to all sorts of unions, actually/
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #65 on: 05 Mar 2009, 19:52 »

Taiwan's parliament

There's something terribly saddening and depressing when seeing the parliament resort to physical violence. Humans.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #66 on: 05 Mar 2009, 20:05 »

Taiwan's parliament

There's something terribly awesome when seeing the parliament resort to physical violence.
Fixed it for you. Seriously, maybe next they will start having formal martial arts matches to decide issues. They could sell tickets, help balance the budget.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #67 on: 05 Mar 2009, 20:13 »

I might be one fucked up individual, but I look forward to the day that Nancy Pelosi bitch slaps a senator like Orrin Hatch
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[22:49] Quietus: I'm personally imagining a white supremacist locked in his basement, furtively listening to Parliament on headphones
[22:49] Quietus: "Oh, lawd, why must them coons rock me so"

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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #68 on: 05 Mar 2009, 20:15 »

Taiwan's parliament

There's something terribly awesome when seeing the parliament resort to physical violence.
Fixed it for you. Seriously, maybe next they will start having formal martial arts matches to decide issues. They could sell tickets, help balance the budget.

...I guess i'll provide the soundtrack.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #70 on: 07 Mar 2009, 13:30 »

wonder if at the end of the clip he was checking the room for blood or some shit.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #71 on: 07 Mar 2009, 13:51 »

"fuck the ________"

"Fuck the bank I work for; fuck the baaank!"

Sir, were you aware that you're gross? Did you know that your cheques smell? I look at him and it's like, "Who would screw you?".
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #72 on: 13 Mar 2009, 14:42 »

Discussion of it didn't seem to take off when it was first brought up, but this troubles me so I'ma throw it up anyway and see what people think of it - in the very public domestic violence dispute between Chris Brown and Rihanna, a little under half of teens surveyed by the Boston Public Health Commission believed that Rihanna was responsible for her assault. 51 percent believed Brown was not to blame, and 44 percent thought physical disputes were a normal part of relationships[/b].. Does anybody else find this extremely disturbing? What accounts for this? Are kids naturally reactionary (which seems plausible to me)? Are they socialized to antagonize women? Are Bostonites just naturally boorish and thug-like?

I don't know, this blows my mind.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #73 on: 13 Mar 2009, 14:54 »

Think this had nothing to do with ethnicity?
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #74 on: 13 Mar 2009, 14:57 »

When was ethnicity brought up?
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #75 on: 13 Mar 2009, 15:31 »

Negroes is a violant race.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #76 on: 13 Mar 2009, 17:53 »

The question about whether fighting is a normal part of a relationship or not seems like it could be a trick question. Do you define fighting as arguing whose turn it is to clean up after the dog, or someone ending up bleeding on the floor? In the context of the article, it suggests physical violence, but the context of the survey could have suggested something different. The ruining Chris Brown's career bit seems like it could have been completely unrelated to whether they thought the violence was all right. Sort of like does someone think that Yoko is to blame for the beatles breaking up being different than asking if they think that Lennon should have taken to beating her until she stopped tearing them apart. Not that the statistics aren't probably showing something close to the truth, I just take things like this with a grain of salt, especially when news is reporting on it.
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #77 on: 13 Mar 2009, 18:18 »

Originally I was going to make a joke about how men in Boston are all drunk Irishmen who beat their wives, but decided that it was taking it too far.

....Then I read Ozy's post, and realized that it is so much better than anything I could've said
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[22:49] Quietus: I'm personally imagining a white supremacist locked in his basement, furtively listening to Parliament on headphones
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Re: America's Children - real lippy?
« Reply #78 on: 15 Mar 2009, 20:13 »

I work in law enforcement, and the bullshit these guys have to put up with just to do their jobs is intense.  There's no sound on the video and no side of the story EXCEPT FROM THE GIRL.  We don't know how she had been acting up to that point.  What if she was refusing to do what the deputy said?  What if she'd assaulted him earlier in the night?

Get both sides before you make a decision.  I'm not advocating unnecessary violence and the 2 shots to the back of the head after she's on the ground are definitely fishy.
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...the apparent shots to the head after the girl was down. Those appear fairly bush league.
Is it common among the law enforcement professionals you know to refer to an incident like this as "fishy" or "bush league"?

Is it common among the law enforcement professionals you know to believe that something like this might be justified by refusal to follow instructions, or by a hypothetical earlier assault?

Among the law enforcement professionals you know, how would another officer walking into that situation typically react?

Do you believe that deputy to be unusual based on your experience?

Does it make sense for the voters of King County to suspect a systemic problem in the department?
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