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Author Topic: Negativity  (Read 10626 times)

Zingoleb

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Negativity
« on: 17 May 2009, 14:41 »

Yeah, I could write what I like. What I like. But where's the fun in that? I don't want to come off as a whiny, negative jerk, but if I say "Hey, I like the Beatles!" there really won't be a huge discussion on it, now will there?

Basically, this thread is here to let me vent on what I think a few of the most over-rated (here and elsewhere) artists are, and my take on them.

AC/DC - Really? It bothers me that a band that pretty much bashes power chords constantly can consistently make 'best band ever' charts everywhere and be labeled as hard rock, or worse yet - metal. Each song sounds the same to me - the only highlight are the solos, but they're not powerful enough to make me an AC/DC fan. I'm listening to Hells Bells right now, which is better then most of their stuff - has an actual riff, not just chords! - but still does pretty much nothing for me. I think that they're loud, mindless, and just subversive enough to make them popular among teenagers who want to rebel without doing much work at it.

Coldplay - ...Agh. I love how people label them as alternative or rock when really, they're just a pop band. I like a few of their songs, but nothing is really amazing - I know, let's hit the same note for 16 bars, then a different note for 16 bars, then the first note again for 16 bars. Eh. No thank you. Listening to Viva la Vida, it seems that the only thing that makes them any good at all is Brian Eno and Joe Satriani. They do simple songs and make the radio a lot, that's really all I need to know.

Eric Clapton - This one always seems to land me in trouble. I like Eric Clapton alright, yeah, but I think that he's not the best guitarist ever like so many people will make him out to be. His days with Cream seem fairly disappointing - Sunshine of Your Love is a disappointment of a solo, and all my favourite Cream songs (I Feel Free; White Room; Wrapping Paper) always seem to be more influenced by Bruce and Baker than Clapton himself. Moving onto Blind Faith, I can't stand any of their stuff that I've heard, which is ironic because I like Winwood. His biggest song in his career would be Layla, right? A riff done by Duane Allman, and the song starts out so strong ... then turns into elevator music. Boring. Then the other big hit was Wonderful Tonight, which was nice the first few times but quickly got old to me and everyone else, but still every radio station and jam band will play it. His best stuff is his acoustic work (Let it Grow; Tears in Heaven; unplugged album) and his simpler work (Lay Down Sally; Knockin' on Heaven's Door; etc.); when he starts doing hard rock and blues he just fails to impress nearly as much.

The Flaming Lips - Ah, Wayne Coyne. At times your work really stands out, your voice is perfect, everything comes together to make a wonderful song. But for the most part, as I've heard, his voice wavers in and out of tune, and the music seems a little...boring to me. Lackluster. Maybe I just need to dig deeper, I've only heard At War with the Mystics, Yoshimi, and Bulletin. I only liked the first, and the second two - which I've heard so many good things about, and approached with open ears! - just disappointed me to such degrees. I did like Fight Test, but that may just be because I like Cat Stevens.

John Prine - Wait, no, he's awesome, nevermind.

Mclusky - This is most likely the one that will have me exiled. I really can not, can not stand them. I'm listening to "That Man Will Not Hang" right now, and it's...okay. The vocals are the only good point to this song, and they're a little lost in over-loud drumming and bass. Now, I approached this band with a very open mind and open ears, having heard stories about them, and hearing their titles and album names made me expect an amazing band that would delight and tickle me to the core (sort of how I got into the Books). I got ahold of a copy of "The Difference Between You and Me is I'm Not on Fire" and recoiled. I was expecting a masterpiece with such a title, and instead got largely discordant, atonal, out of tune music with great vocals somewhat lost in the mix. The drumming is damn good, as well, but are far too pronounced and need to be pulled back. The acoustic bit would be pleasant to listen to except for the whole out-of-tune bit. Some people can take discordance and make it sound good, some people can't. Maybe my expectations were just placed too high with the way everyone raved about this band, or maybe I just took the titles to be indications of greatness and judged this book by its cover. Either way - Mclusky is a terribly disappointing band.

The Rolling Stones - The Greatest Rock and Roll Band of All Time? No. No, no, no. I can't think of a single one that would fit that description (Beatles and Zeppelin come close, but still not), but the Rolling Stones definitely would still not be it. Granted, I do like maybe 10 of their songs, but  when a band releases so much dreck as the Stones, they're bound to have a few good ones in there. From their early covers of R&B to Brian Jones experimentation to their country work to their 'hard rock', very, very little stands apart. They write fairly simple songs that a lot of people can easily listen to, but that's about it. With the exception of Jagger, each individual member of the Rolling Stones fascinates me, but when they come together to make music I have a tendency to reach for the radio to see what else is on.



That's just about all, for now. Go on, rip my head off.
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A Shoggoth on the Roof

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #1 on: 17 May 2009, 14:45 »

tl;dr popular bands didn't live up to the hype
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Zingoleb

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #2 on: 17 May 2009, 14:49 »

Thank you, Lee.
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Big Happy Captain

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #3 on: 17 May 2009, 15:03 »

I can see where you're getting from for pretty much all of those artists.

but Flaming Lips? Really? REALLY?

thats just a bit wierd, maybe not a band your personally into but you have to admit that the music is creative, original, and clever. Surreal lyrics combined with really thick and full sounding music with as much crammed into it as possible without it wounding shit and overly busy (which i might add is a VERY hard thing to do). And the genius approach to the songwriting transcends into live performance. Its pretty much a general concensus that they are one of the best live bands ever.

so the rest of the bands i noticed it was more "this music is generally not that greatly impressive or interesting", but then the Flaming Lips kind of threw me off as they are a band which, even if I didn't like them, they'd still be one of those bands that i would respect and understand why other people do.

(That being said, AC/DC are just kind of fun, you know? i dont think theres any reason to like them besides that. i don't listen to them but i think theyre cool.)


OH and give the song In The Morning Of The Magicians a listen, and if you dont like that song then I guess Flaming Lips aint for you.
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Avec

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #4 on: 17 May 2009, 15:08 »

I don't like the Beatles, there, I said it.
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Sox

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #5 on: 17 May 2009, 15:13 »

There is nobody what cares who you don't like.

    ...don't be that guy! you're being that guy!
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Avec

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #6 on: 17 May 2009, 15:13 »

I think there is a couple of people who simply praise the Flaming Lips, I'm kind of waiting on their responses.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2009, 15:20 by Avec »
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Zingoleb

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #7 on: 17 May 2009, 15:14 »

Tommy, this is just something that I've been thinking about writing otu for weeks and months now, and something I just finally decided to do.

To be honest, I do like all of the above bands. Mclusky not so much, but "She Will Only Bring You Happiness" I do like. As for the Flaming Lips, I liked At War With the Mystics (at least about half of it), but their really popular albums are just not matching up to all I'm hearing about them.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

That's nice, Sox, then go away. If you don't want my opinion, then don't read it. Simple, no?
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A Shoggoth on the Roof

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #8 on: 17 May 2009, 15:17 »

those guyses?
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Zingoleb

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #9 on: 17 May 2009, 15:18 »

Us guyses, yes.
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Alex C

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #10 on: 17 May 2009, 15:18 »

Fuck you guyses teams.
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Sox

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #11 on: 17 May 2009, 15:19 »

I will seriously pay you to shut up.
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Zingoleb

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #12 on: 17 May 2009, 15:21 »

I'll assume you're talking to me, Sox.

I want people to disagree with me. I want someone to point out to me the flaw in my thinking and make me turn around and listen closely once more and go, "Wow, I was wrong, this band is great!"

What I don't want is someone going, "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP."
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Zingoleb

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #13 on: 17 May 2009, 15:31 »

See, I don't like to be the kind of guy going, "This band sucks. Their music sucks. People who like these guys suck. So suck it." I was trying to phrase it in a more, "I like these guys, but I think that they're a mite bit overblown."

As for post 2: Alrighty. I'll give Do Dallas a listen to. That's a kind of recording style that really doesn't turn me on...kind of like "Please Please Me" is one of my least favourite Beatles records because it was recorded in that way.
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A Shoggoth on the Roof

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #14 on: 17 May 2009, 15:34 »

All I have to say as far as disagreeing with you is that Mclusky is so much fun. the rest I don't care much about. And also, asking these people why Coldplay is so popular is like asking Karl Marx why capitalism is so successful. (I know I don't like them at all)
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A Shoggoth on the Roof

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #15 on: 17 May 2009, 15:38 »

the new Future of the Left seems pretty good so far. I am definitely enjoying it at the moment, we'll see if it stays that way in the next six months or so. I am thinking it probably will.
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michaelicious

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #16 on: 17 May 2009, 15:39 »

You picked the wrong part of the Flaming Lips' career to listen to.
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Alex C

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #17 on: 17 May 2009, 15:39 »

Sox and Alex were both reciting song titles by the band Ten Grand, which I obliquely referenced in my earlier post. I doubt they meant any offense.

This. My only regret is that you guys posted before I could tell Sox to get out of my dojo.
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Sox

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #18 on: 17 May 2009, 15:43 »

I love the face I make while you're crying.
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StaedlerMars

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #19 on: 17 May 2009, 15:48 »

The flaming lips have an album that is meant to be played on four different sets of speakers at the same time (or three or two or just one) and is different depending on how many players you play it from.

I think that alone deserves them some form of acknowledgment.
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #20 on: 17 May 2009, 16:00 »

With the exception of Jagger, each individual member of the Rolling Stones fascinates me,

Nothing musical, but Mick Jagger was extraordinarily kind to Marianne Faithful's mother after he and Marianne had split up.
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Zingoleb

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #21 on: 17 May 2009, 16:15 »

Really, Paul? That is fascinating, Paul. I did not know that, Paul.

You picked the wrong part of the Flaming Lips' career to listen to.

This is what I'm really hoping, because what small bits of "Transmissions from Satellite Heart" I've listed to I've really enjoyed.

The flaming lips have an album that is meant to be played on four different sets of speakers at the same time (or three or two or just one) and is different depending on how many players you play it from.

I think that alone deserves them some form of acknowledgment.

Zareeka? (Spelling?) My friend was telling me about it. I'd like to try it but damn if I'm going to do the work. :p
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #22 on: 17 May 2009, 16:31 »

Zaireeka yeah.
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scarred

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #23 on: 17 May 2009, 16:57 »

The Flaming Lips are nothing special recorded, but their live show is so mind-blowingly awesome that it handily makes up for the blisteringly average tunes.
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Zingoleb

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #24 on: 17 May 2009, 17:10 »

My friend (his name is Alex, so I can stop referring to him in such a vague manner) says the exact opposite, ironically...
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #25 on: 17 May 2009, 17:11 »

Your friend Alex is wrong.



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Zingoleb

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #26 on: 17 May 2009, 17:15 »

I think he was talking more musically, less flashing lights...ically. His words were, pretty much, "The studio is where he's made to be. He can't sing and play guitar at the same time."
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scarred

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #27 on: 17 May 2009, 17:17 »

Oh. Maybe that's true. But if it is, he's not so bad to the point where it's noticeable during a live performance. Or else I'm just completely oblivious.
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #28 on: 17 May 2009, 17:46 »

I just want to say that I love how roughly half the responses in this thread are made up of Ten Grand song titles. I used to think this forum was heaven...but this isn't heaven, this sucks!
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #29 on: 17 May 2009, 19:48 »

Do Dallas actually has songs too.

Songs being the things which sadly Andy Falkous has neglected to write since.

So you think that the things that Future of the Left play are not songs?

But anyway, really, if you are going to listen to mclusky at all, try Do Dalles first, because it is much better than their other albums. [/opinion]
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #30 on: 17 May 2009, 22:18 »

My favourite album of theirs is The Difference Between Me And You... but I am a malcontent and no one pays attention to me anyway.

Guys this thread makes me want to hear what these Ten Grand fellows are all about.

EDIT: Mr O'Leb, for the record I think  a main reason this thread is getting a lot of shit is because we have had it about four times already.
« Last Edit: 17 May 2009, 22:23 by David_Dovey »
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #31 on: 17 May 2009, 22:45 »

I really, really, really love the Flaming Lips, both recorded and live (oh God live).  I don't think it would be possible to overrate their live show, to be honest.  I can see why people would feel less than ecstatic glee and delight upon listening to their recorded work (although I do, personally), but the live show is completely mindshatteringly amazing.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #32 on: 17 May 2009, 23:37 »

I can't begin to name the sheer amount of modern rock music that isn't necessarily terrible, but causes me to think, "What is the point of this music?".

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billiumbean

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #33 on: 18 May 2009, 03:26 »

EDIT: Mr O'Leb, for the record I think  a main reason this thread is getting a lot of shit is because we have had it about four times already.

See, I hate this.  I've only been here a year and I think maybe I read one of those four threads, and there are maybe thousands of people who've signed up after me who never saw those other threads.  These people could have unique perspectives that might have changed a few minds or even solidified a few arguments against their points.  Either one gets shit thrown at him/her for pointing something out that has been pointed out before, or he/she gets beaten up for reviving a very old thread.

(Not directed at you, Dovey; you're a peach)

I don't want to be a noob's bitch-tits, so I'll at least say something relevant to the topic.

I'm not a fan of Eric Clapton particularly.  Never really listened to one of his albums or one of Cream's albums, but the singles that I have heard I haven't really enjoyed.  However, I've seen at least eight hours of Crossroads DVD footage and that was pretty fucking great, so he gets at least some points.  For those who don't know, Crossroads is a tour/festival he plays and sponsors every year or so with a good twenty or thirty other guitarists, legendary and emerging.  Worth a NetFlix cue-ing.
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I do agree that this could potentially have some dire ramifications in regards to purple drank.

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #34 on: 18 May 2009, 03:43 »

Man Ed don't say I didn't warn you :B
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #35 on: 18 May 2009, 16:27 »

AC/DC - Really? It bothers me that a band that pretty much bashes power chords constantly can consistently make 'best band ever' charts everywhere and be labeled as hard rock, or worse yet - metal. Each song sounds the same to me - the only highlight are the solos, but they're not powerful enough to make me an AC/DC fan. I'm listening to Hells Bells right now, which is better then most of their stuff - has an actual riff, not just chords! - but still does pretty much nothing for me. I think that they're loud, mindless, and just subversive enough to make them popular among teenagers who want to rebel without doing much work at it.

Meh, they're harmless.

Coldplay - ...Agh. I love how people label them as alternative or rock when really, they're just a pop band. I like a few of their songs, but nothing is really amazing - I know, let's hit the same note for 16 bars, then a different note for 16 bars, then the first note again for 16 bars. Eh. No thank you. Listening to Viva la Vida, it seems that the only thing that makes them any good at all is Brian Eno and Joe Satriani. They do simple songs and make the radio a lot, that's really all I need to know.

A pop band? YE GODS NO! Coldplay have good siongs, I don't care what their classification is. Most particularly the more obscure tunes on their albums - 'A Whisper' and 'Warning Sign' from A Rush Of Blood To The Head are wonderfully produced, magnificent songs - are good ones, it's just I find their worst shit tends to make the most money.

Eric Clapton - This one always seems to land me in trouble. I like Eric Clapton alright, yeah, but I think that he's not the best guitarist ever like so many people will make him out to be. His days with Cream seem fairly disappointing - Sunshine of Your Love is a disappointment of a solo, and all my favourite Cream songs (I Feel Free; White Room; Wrapping Paper) always seem to be more influenced by Bruce and Baker than Clapton himself. Moving onto Blind Faith, I can't stand any of their stuff that I've heard, which is ironic because I like Winwood. His biggest song in his career would be Layla, right? A riff done by Duane Allman, and the song starts out so strong ... then turns into elevator music. Boring. Then the other big hit was Wonderful Tonight, which was nice the first few times but quickly got old to me and everyone else, but still every radio station and jam band will play it. His best stuff is his acoustic work (Let it Grow; Tears in Heaven; unplugged album) and his simpler work (Lay Down Sally; Knockin' on Heaven's Door; etc.); when he starts doing hard rock and blues he just fails to impress nearly as much.

I couldn't care less about Eric Clapton, 'Layla' is great, and then I don't care, so go for it.

The Flaming Lips - Ah, Wayne Coyne. At times your work really stands out, your voice is perfect, everything comes together to make a wonderful song. But for the most part, as I've heard, his voice wavers in and out of tune, and the music seems a little...boring to me. Lackluster. Maybe I just need to dig deeper, I've only heard At War with the Mystics, Yoshimi, and Bulletin. I only liked the first, and the second two - which I've heard so many good things about, and approached with open ears! - just disappointed me to such degrees. I did like Fight Test, but that may just be because I like Cat Stevens.

You're going to get burned at the stake saying this on this forum, not that I could care less. I too hate Wayne Coyne's voice.

The Rolling Stones - The Greatest Rock and Roll Band of All Time? No. No, no, no. I can't think of a single one that would fit that description (Beatles and Zeppelin come close, but still not), but the Rolling Stones definitely would still not be it. Granted, I do like maybe 10 of their songs, but  when a band releases so much dreck as the Stones, they're bound to have a few good ones in there. From their early covers of R&B to Brian Jones experimentation to their country work to their 'hard rock', very, very little stands apart. They write fairly simple songs that a lot of people can easily listen to, but that's about it. With the exception of Jagger, each individual member of the Rolling Stones fascinates me, but when they come together to make music I have a tendency to reach for the radio to see what else is on.

I legally downloaded 'Start Me Up' and 'Gimme Shelter' and until further notice that is all I need from these bands.
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #36 on: 18 May 2009, 17:31 »

You picked the wrong part of the Flaming Lips' career to listen to.

This.

Go listen to Transmissions, A Priest Driven Ambulance, and Clouds Taste Metallic.
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #37 on: 18 May 2009, 17:51 »

Yeah, I thought I didn't like the lips till I heard clouds taste metallic. It's still not a kind of music everyone would like.
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Zingoleb

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #38 on: 18 May 2009, 21:49 »


A pop band? YE GODS NO! Coldplay have good siongs, I don't care what their classification is. Most particularly the more obscure tunes on their albums - 'A Whisper' and 'Warning Sign' from A Rush Of Blood To The Head are wonderfully produced, magnificent songs - are good ones, it's just I find their worst shit tends to make the most money.

Hm. I'm listening to them (those two songs) now. I do remember these, actually, it's just been awhile since I've really listened to it and this isn't quite so terrible as I had placed it in my mind. Hm. I like Warning Sign, as for Whisper...eh. Nothing about it really stands out to me.
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billiumbean

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #39 on: 18 May 2009, 22:12 »

Thanks to you guys I now like the Flaming Lips.

I think this is the beginning of a beautiful obsession.
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I do agree that this could potentially have some dire ramifications in regards to purple drank.

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #40 on: 18 May 2009, 22:33 »

Since I am increasingly finding, while happier than ever in my life, it hard to say anything nice or constructive.

I think this is the thread that really hammers it home. I guess its time for a hiatus from this forum.

And on topic, you cant just make a thread that says a bunch of loosely founded opinions and balance them by saying "But I dooooooo like these bands".

*edit*

And then sit on it refreshing so you may reply as soon as someone makes a post.
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #41 on: 18 May 2009, 22:37 »

...Not a good time?  I can come back later.
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #42 on: 18 May 2009, 23:03 »

And on topic, you cant just make a thread that says a bunch of loosely founded opinions and balance them by saying "But I dooooooo like these bands".

*edit*

And then sit on it refreshing so you may reply as soon as someone makes a post.

Do you guys remember my shred thread from a little while back?

haha oh man
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Patrick

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #43 on: 19 May 2009, 03:18 »

Gaz you are forgetting "Honky Tonk Women". Other than that, I don't need any Rolling Stones either. Somehow I managed to get like 3 albums' worth of this shit though. I will have a word with the last person to put things on my iPod over this.
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The Joker

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #44 on: 19 May 2009, 11:47 »

There was once an interview with Angus Young (the guitarist from AC/DC) and it went something like this:

Interviewer:  So, a lot of people think you've basically released the same ten albums.  What do you think of that?

Angus Young:  That's completely untrue.  We have eleven albums.

The point is, AC/DC's not trying to do anything radical or different.  They play straight hard rock (screamingly high vocals, distorted guitars, relatively simple 4/4 drums, dirty lyrics - what the hell else would it be?) and, in my opinion, are damn good at it.  The fact is, I've never heard an AC/DC song that I didn't like; the worst reaction I've had is "Well, that was okay" (although I certainly don't listen to them all the time, nor all of their albums). 

And most of all, this is all just a matter of opinion, and that is just mine.
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Will

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #45 on: 19 May 2009, 12:07 »

AC/DC's not trying to do anything radical or different.

Nope. They aren't, and bless them for it. For me, not every band needs to be groundbreakingly original, and not everything I listen to has to be challenging.

I was at an awards dinner recently where I had a fancy meal of some fashion - can't remember what it was, but it was high-falutin' food, and tasty! But just because I really enjoyed that meal, doesn't mean I'm not gonna go out and eat a hamburger later.
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Alex C

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #46 on: 19 May 2009, 12:33 »

Yeah, see, AC/DC's reliance on power chords is only really an issue if you're not particularly interested in power chords. If you want power chords with a side of power chords, however, you're in business, and sometimes dammit, I want power chords. They're not my favorite band but I don't turn the dial when they come on the radio either and I'd rather hear them come on than half the other bands out there.
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Re: Negativity
« Reply #47 on: 19 May 2009, 18:30 »

^ I do like power chords, but I generally want something more...intricate, I suppose would be the right word. Okay, so that's pretentious, or whatever - fine. What amazes me is just that they consistently are marked as one of the greatest bands of all times and are marked down as some of the greatest guitarists/drummers/musicians in general.

Since I am increasingly finding, while happier than ever in my life, it hard to say anything nice or constructive.

I think this is the thread that really hammers it home. I guess its time for a hiatus from this forum.

And on topic, you cant just make a thread that says a bunch of loosely founded opinions and balance them by saying "But I dooooooo like these bands".

*edit*

And then sit on it refreshing so you may reply as soon as someone makes a post.

Read a little closer, I'm not doing that. I'm saying that these bands I tend to run into everywhere and I don't see why they are so amazingly overblown into the proportions they've gone to.

And, P.S., I'm not refreshing and posting. Unless you're watching over my shoulder, don't make assumptions, 'kay?  :-)

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #48 on: 19 May 2009, 18:58 »

I lived in Australia for a bit and was surprised to find that at office parties in big corporate environments AC/DC would be playing alongside yr Kylie, ABBA, Jackson 5, 'Tainted Love', etc. and people would all go nuts and sing along.

It struck me then that the thing about AC/DC is it's dance music.  Not "dance music" in the sense of electronic stuff that goes doof doof doof doof, but in terms of how it functions.  In this regard it just doesn't need to be intricate or refined or even well thought out.  They're just not assets in that context.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Negativity
« Reply #49 on: 19 May 2009, 20:12 »

Dance music with screaming solos. <3
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