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Author Topic: Remake of Alien  (Read 28578 times)

Faker

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Remake of Alien
« on: 28 May 2009, 05:19 »

So Alien is 30 this year, and what better way to mark said anniversary than remaking it!!!

Hard to imagine this being a good thing, although the involvement of Ridley Scott as a producer gives me some faint hope.

The only way I think this might work is that rather than being a straight remake, maybe a prequel? As in showing how the Aliens came to land on LV-426, along with that massive ship and the space jockey with the giant hole punched in his sternum?
« Last Edit: 28 May 2009, 05:28 by Faker »
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #1 on: 28 May 2009, 05:27 »

So Alien is 30 this year, and what better way to mark said anniversary than remaking it!!!

Hard to imagine this being a good thing, although the involvement of Ridley Scott as a producer gives me some faint hope.

The only way I think this might work is that rather than being a straight remake, maybe a prequel? As in showing how the Aliens came to land on LV-426, along with that massive ship and the space jockey with the giant hole punched in his sternum?

That won't happen and it will be terrible.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2009, 05:29 by Sox »
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #2 on: 28 May 2009, 05:32 »

After ALIEN 3, which was passable at least and actually quite interesting, everything ALIEN-related has turned to shit (with exceptions concerning games).

I can't see this remake being much good, especially since the limitations of technology at the time helped create the atmosphere and horror.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #3 on: 28 May 2009, 05:41 »

And, of course, Sigourney Weaver in her underwear was at that time quite interesting indeed.

Remakes are the pits, though. I'd rather that they take a stab at a new story than try to fix something that isn't broken.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #4 on: 28 May 2009, 06:18 »

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #5 on: 28 May 2009, 06:36 »

So Alien is 30 this year, and what better way to mark said anniversary than remaking it!!!

Oh, I know this one!  Not remaking it!
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #6 on: 28 May 2009, 07:12 »

Oh thank god, I hate watching movies that are more than five years old. Now if only they'd get around to remaking Citizen Kane I could finally see it!
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Faker

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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #7 on: 28 May 2009, 08:04 »

So Alien is 30 this year, and what better way to mark said anniversary than remaking it!!!

Oh, I know this one!  Not remaking it!

But then how can they take every last dollar from us while simulataneously ruining the memories of every film we previously enjoyed?

Its like you don't understand the movie business at all!!! :lol:
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #8 on: 28 May 2009, 08:11 »

I think the thing behind remakes is that a lot of people in the movie buisness have a start in theatre, where the same plays are put on over and over again by different theatre groups which means that actors can play their favourite chracters and directors can put their own spin on a story. Then they change mediums because there's no money in theatre and they take the attitude that doing something that people have done before you is perfectly normal. Speaking as someone who has done a bit of amature theatre I completely understand this and honestly get a little pissy with all the people complaining about remakes - you don't have to see it.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #9 on: 28 May 2009, 08:19 »

But then how can they take every last dollar from us while simulataneously ruining the memories of every film we previously enjoyed?

Its like you don't understand the movie business at all!!! :lol:

Oh my god you're right!  This is why I've been unable to break into the glamorous world of Hollywood film and film-related employment.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #10 on: 28 May 2009, 08:19 »

This can impossibly be better than the original. Pass.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #11 on: 28 May 2009, 08:47 »

It can?
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #12 on: 28 May 2009, 10:26 »

I think the thing behind remakes is that a lot of people in the movie buisness have a start in theatre, where the same plays are put on over and over again by different theatre groups which means that actors can play their favourite chracters and directors can put their own spin on a story. Then they change mediums because there's no money in theatre and they take the attitude that doing something that people have done before you is perfectly normal. Speaking as someone who has done a bit of amature theatre I completely understand this and honestly get a little pissy with all the people complaining about remakes - you don't have to see it.

That makes a lot of sense, and is the best explanation I have ever heard for why movie-making people keep doing it.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #13 on: 28 May 2009, 10:55 »

I also find it irritating that people somehow think the original movie becomes less enjoyable due to the remake. I mean, I've seen plenty of remakes that I thought were not needed or were just outright terrible, but fucking hell people.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #14 on: 28 May 2009, 10:56 »

The problem here is that it also goes a long way towards explaining why I'm not really a huge fan of theater despite just how many productions take place in the twin cities in a given year.


But that said, yeah, I agree with Ackblom. I understand the concept of played out, but I think there's a real limit to how much you should hold that against the original concept or work. I don't really want to hear anyone say "I'm Rick James, bitch!" ever again, but that doesn't mean I'm still nursing a grudge against Dave Chapelle nor do I go out of my way to crap on whatever album Rolling Stone is furiously masturbating over this week.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2009, 11:10 by Alex C »
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #15 on: 28 May 2009, 11:11 »

I think the thing behind remakes is that a lot of people in the movie buisness have a start in theatre, where the same plays are put on over and over again by different theatre groups which means that actors can play their favourite chracters and directors can put their own spin on a story. Then they change mediums because there's no money in theatre and they take the attitude that doing something that people have done before you is perfectly normal. Speaking as someone who has done a bit of amature theatre I completely understand this and honestly get a little pissy with all the people complaining about remakes - you don't have to see it.

Do you have any data to back this up? 

It sounds reasonable enough on the surface.  But for it to be true, you'll at least need some figures showing that remakes are significantly more likely to be make by people with theater backgrounds than those without.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2009, 11:14 by rynne »
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #16 on: 28 May 2009, 12:14 »

Even if it's not true, it's a reasonable point.

Not everything is a fucking holy grail that should never be touched or messed with lest the universe screams and dies int he agony of a shitty Alien remake oh fucking no.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #17 on: 28 May 2009, 14:39 »

Most cultures, perhaps all, have a tradition of storytelling.  The same stories are told over and over, passed down through the generations, yadda yadda yadda.  In the beginning it was done verbally around the campfire, then in books (how many hundreds of versions of Mother Goose stories or Grimm's Fairy Tales have you seen?) then in theaters (every high school and every community theater has done West Side Story countless times), and now in cinemas.  It's all the same thing.  Someone thinks it's a good idea to tell an old story a new way, they do it, in whatever medium they work in.

I think there are some movies that just don't need to be redone, and will probably be worse, but whatever.  They don't get my money.  Heck, there are movies I've seen that are remakes of older movies, and I didn't even know they were remakes.

But it seems like every time they remake a movie, there's a group out there screaming "Oh no, they're raping my childhood!"  Those people need to chill.  Or, you know, just don't go see it.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #18 on: 28 May 2009, 15:37 »

A lot of people from theatre also go on to write...but why should they write something original? There are some books I can not stomach. I just don't want to read them..too many pages.
I am suggesting that they rewrite them. A few to consider...

LotR
HHGttG
Paddington Bear
Mein Kampf
The Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants
the Bible
The instructions for my dyson
Every post Johnny C has ever made on this forum

I think the argument about theatre doesn't hold up because those guys usually follow the scripts to a tee. Who in theatre rewrites Shakespeare? They change the cast each time the show is done because it's always in a new location, the orignals have aged, they may not be available...
When it comes to theatre and the stage, the play transcends the cast and crew. It is the job of the cast and crew to perform the play. That's what they do. None of these remakes have exactly been even remotely faithful to the original movie. The only time movies were remade in a 'theatre' like fashion were with Psycho and NotLD, and everybody who saw those thought 'what was the point'. They would be right to.
Theatre changes because the nature of theatre is that it is the temporary spontaneous thing. The live performance is gone forever once the curtains draw. Film as an artform is totally unlike that, it's a permanent thing. Each movie spends months, or years being refined to the product that is finally delivered in order to stand there forever.

The movies from 50 years ago are still exactly the same today as they were then. Just like the books people still love to read.

The only things coming into play with remakes such as this one are egos and money. If movies degraded with time, I would buy into the argument. But they don't. A remake is not a homage. Not if you package it up and market it to millions of people. A fan could recreate a movie shot for shot with his friends in his basement, that would be cool. I'd buy into that. This however is disrespectful to the original people involved. Just as it would be disrepectful to rewrite Douglas Adams or Johnny C's forum posts.

Movies are not theatre. Not even remotely similar. Surel, both use actors. Car tires use rubber, but that don't make them pencil erasers.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #19 on: 28 May 2009, 16:08 »

Most cultures, perhaps all, have a tradition of storytelling.  The same stories are told over and over, passed down through the generations, yadda yadda yadda.  In the beginning it was done verbally around the campfire, then in books (how many hundreds of versions of Mother Goose stories or Grimm's Fairy Tales have you seen?) then in theaters (every high school and every community theater has done West Side Story countless times), and now in cinemas.  It's all the same thing.  Someone thinks it's a good idea to tell an old story a new way, they do it, in whatever medium they work in.

That being said, most of those traditional stories were told and re-told because there was no storage medium.  They were told and re-told because there was no "record" that could be referenced at will.  Or, to put it another way, if those stories weren't retold, they would've been lost. 

Theater is somewhat similar in that the actual performance is a live act that occurs at one place.  The script is permanent, but that's just a part of the entire show.  The show itself must be re-acted every time.

Contrast that to films which are, by definition, a recorded medium.  The story exists in a way that is (essentially) easily and permanently accessible.  Like Sox points out, a film will be the same 50 years after it was made as it was the day it comes out.

I think that permanence goes hand-in-hand with higher standards for cinema re-tellings because previous films are always accessible (whereas, say, you can't go to a theater and see the original performance of Les Mis).

Now, I don't necessarily agree with Sox that "the only things coming into play with remakes such as this one are egos and money."  There are cases where film remakes or reinterpretations have added or altered the story or tone enough that they can stand as separate works in their own right.  But I think that a simply desire to recreate a film without significantly altering or improving on the original isn't enough justification.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2009, 16:14 by rynne »
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #20 on: 28 May 2009, 17:07 »

I don't buy the whole theatre argument. I really don't think there are very many directors or producers at all who cross over from theatre to film. Sam Mendes is the only one in recent times I can name off the top of my head (and he's only ever made original films). Sure, there are loads of actors who regularly flit back and forth between cinema and theatre, but there are relatively few actors with the clout to decide what films get made. Most directors these days seem to have a screen background - either T.V. or advertising or short films.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #21 on: 28 May 2009, 18:36 »

Yeah, the crossover between theater and film, where it relates to mainstream film, only ever really applies to actors. With television and film schools being around as long as they have there doesn't need to be any crossover. Darryl's right about it being about money. Is anybody going to remake The Passion of Joan of Arc? Is anybody going to remake Wild Strawberries, or Eraserhead? Fuck no they won't, because remakes come about because of 2 things, in general -

1. Reduced risk - Same principle as infinite sequel syndrome. You don't have to go out on a limb with investors or the public with a new venture. You're going to get free press and people will come into the movie expecting something. If it's something like Raiders of the Lost Ark, then everybody remembers the source material, most people have fond memories of it, and most of those people are not terribly discriminating. Free money!

2. Vanity projects - This happens less often, and it's the only reason why obscure movies get remade (aside from, say, the occasional oscar baiting). In some cases, like Soderbergh's rather boring remake of Solaris, it's an actual homage. In some cases, like Spielberg upcoming Old Boy remake with Will Smith, they think they can put a "different spin" on the material. In other cases, like the Bad Lieutenant remake, nobody cared about the original and an indifferent director and a big star decided to take the material without much input from the original creative team (although that movie looks fucking awesome)

Quality of the material is incidental.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #22 on: 28 May 2009, 19:42 »

" The story exists in a way that is (essentially) easily and permanently accessible.  Like Sox points out, a film will be the same 50 years after it was made as it was the day it comes out."

Guys you've got to see "Papá o 36 mil juicios de un mismo suceso" it's a chilean movie developed for the dvd medium, it "remakes" itself everytime it is played, since every scene was shoot several times, and they play at random every time the movie is reproduced, so you get 36 thousand different movies :-)

So that makes the fact that movies are a recorded medium (and because of that, static) argument relative.

I mean, it's not like it is impossible to create a procedural movie out of the metric ton of data that google spits every second and using Ms. Dewey to act it out (http://www.therawfeed.com/2006/10/ms-dewey-search-engine-answers-with.html). It would only take a little programming in Processing.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #23 on: 28 May 2009, 21:03 »

I think they should remake Wall-E. That movie was just a little behind its time.

Seriously, how does anyone think this is a good fucking idea? Hollywood makes me sick.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #24 on: 28 May 2009, 22:08 »

First off - I'm not saying that it's a good thing that directors have the theatre mentality towards remakes, all I was trying to do was suggest a possible rational behind it.

I agree that form an audience point of veiw there is a massive difference between stage and screen simply because one is fleeting and ther other permernant. I'm also far far too aware of Hollywood's seceptablity to the alure of an easy and safe dollar. What I'm saying is that from a cast and crew point of veiw, remakes aren't nessisarily bad things. Why should it be perfectly possible for an actor to aspire to play Hamlet, but completley unrealistic to want to put their own spin on Arthur Dent.

One interesting thing I've noticed is the middle ground - where stage plays are adapted to screen, how many times has The Imporatance of Being Ernest been made into a movie, yet no one complains about it.

I think the argument about theatre doesn't hold up because those guys usually follow the scripts to a tee. Who in theatre rewrites Shakespeare?

Shakespear scripts are always cut down otherwise you'd end up with 5 hour plays - even when they were first put on in The Globe Theatre they were reduced in length - the choice of what should stay and what should go changes the final production imensly. Even then all you've got are the dialogue, the actions that go with what's being said and the way it's being said are all up to the actors and director and that can have huge effects on the outcome - an actor could say something sarcastically where it had been writen straight and change the entire scene, or even the entire play.


I really don't think there are very many directors or producers at all who cross over from theatre to film. Sam Mendes is the only one in recent times I can name off the top of my head (and he's only ever made original films). Sure, there are loads of actors who regularly flit back and forth between cinema and theatre, but there are relatively few actors with the clout to decide what films get made. Most directors these days seem to have a screen background - either T.V. or advertising or short films.

I'm not talking about people crossing over from one to another, I'm talking about where people get their first start and really get their passion for drama and chances are they got it from a school production or drama classes or similar. How many people do you think would decide "you know what I'm going to go to film school" without ever having done something of the kind.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #25 on: 29 May 2009, 02:47 »

Guys you've got to see "Papá o 36 mil juicios de un mismo suceso" it's a chilean movie developed for the dvd medium, it "remakes" itself everytime it is played, since every scene was shoot several times, and they play at random every time the movie is reproduced, so you get 36 thousand different movies :-)
That? That is fucking cool right there.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #26 on: 29 May 2009, 04:02 »

The Chilean self editing movie sounds as though it could be the greatest idea ever, or the most pretentious piece of old wank.


It's still a really original and innovative idea, so i'll definitely have to check it out, but this raises a question, how many times/versions do you need to watch before you can make a considered decision on its merits?
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #27 on: 30 May 2009, 01:45 »

How does it even fit on a DVD though?

Also Alien really does not need a remake.
« Last Edit: 30 May 2009, 01:47 by öde »
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #28 on: 30 May 2009, 16:04 »

BREAKING NEWS

http://www.collider.com/2009/05/29/exclusive-tony-scott-confirms-carl-rinsch-is-directing-alien-and-its-a-prequel/

"Alien" prequel confirmed.

Not as bad as a remake.

I'm still crying a little inside.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #29 on: 30 May 2009, 18:43 »

I am less annoyed with this now that it's a remake, but I'm still worried it will be a pile of poo.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #30 on: 30 May 2009, 20:39 »

Thank God it's only a prequel, I was ready to release the motherfucking fury!
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #31 on: 30 May 2009, 23:31 »

Getting angry about a movie being made is fuckin' hardcore. That is what awesome people do. Gotta get the outrage going over meaningless pieces of pop culture.

At any rate, I ain't see a purpose to a prequel. Not really much to the story before Alien that warrants it. Could probably take whatever story they're planning and call it a sequel and it'd effectively be the same.

I just wanna see some fucks get ate.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #32 on: 31 May 2009, 20:32 »

Zack Efron as the new John Hurt? If something alien and virulently carnivorous burst out of his chest, I'd be delighted.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #33 on: 01 Jun 2009, 08:46 »

Thank God it's only a prequel, I was ready to release the motherfucking fury!

You have impressed me in ways you cannot possibly comprehend.

 8-)
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #34 on: 01 Jun 2009, 17:32 »

I hope this is good.

Aliens vs. Predator was a horrible disservice to not only cinema at large, but the Alien timeline.

I can see the Aliens working as an awesome glue for a sci-fi corp-thriller based on Weyland-Yutani, rather than using horror elements to bring tension like the rest of the series. See, the Alien in the film of the same name is significant in that it was the first observation of how deadly such a creature actually was.

So I guess the issue with an Alien prequel is that is can only deal with the Aliens second-hand. They just cannot be a major presence until the next movie.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #35 on: 02 Jun 2009, 09:20 »

Not necessarily.  If the idea is to give us the background of the Alien species, obviously they're going to be in the movie a lot. 

If the idea is to show us the background of the Space Jockey and the eggs on his derelict ship, there seem to be at least two possibilities.  (1) The Space Jockey was piloting a ship transporting Alien eggs somewhere.  This is supported by the fact that the eggs are all in a chamber below decks, still protected by a force field of some kind.  (2) The Chestburster which killed the Space Jockey was a queen, who laid all those eggs, and later died.  Her body was never found by the away team from the Nostromo because once Kane got Face-hugged, they had other things to worry about.  There are probably other somewhat plausible stories, but I'm leaning toward (1) above.  (2) doesn't make as much sense.  Mainly, if the eggs were laid by a queen, they wouldn't have that nice force field over them, and the chamber didn't show the same kind of "modifications" as the one in Aliens.

I think the biggest problem, and IMO the biggest failing of both AVP movies, was that the creators seemed to think that humans were necessary to the story at all.  Why are humans required?  To make it "more interesting" for the audience?  Give them someone to related to?  I didn't see why that was necessary.  But if they do choose to include the AVP movies as canon as well, they did introduce the idea that "we knew" about the Alien species prior to the events of the first movie.  They could take that idea and run with it.  Weyland-Yutani (or its parent companies) has known about them since the events of AVP and AVPR, and The Nostromo stumbled across something horrible, but which was not previously unknown to us.  Okay, that could be interesting, actually.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #36 on: 02 Jun 2009, 13:39 »

In AvP's defense, a human perspective generally is a requirement for a mass marketable movie. If not human, at least something resembling human. A two hour action flick with subtitles to explain the motivation of the aliens and predators probably would've been even more of a disaster than the actual product.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #37 on: 02 Jun 2009, 15:21 »

But "resembling human" can lead to prblems with the uncanny valley.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #38 on: 02 Jun 2009, 15:27 »

i think he was referring more to human-like nonhumans (Hobbits, etc.) and anthropomorphization (Finding Nemo, for example) whereas the uncanny valley refers to things made to look exactly like humans, to the point where it becomes very creepy because, despite the accuracy of the human imitation, it still doesn't "look quite right."
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #39 on: 03 Jun 2009, 09:53 »

Yeah, now that I think about it, it wouldn't have worked without "the human element".

Can I complain instead that it was stupid that they were set on Earth present-day?  Basically it reduced two of the most fearsome creatures ever created in the sci-fi world into cheesy monsters in a cheesy monster movie.  It also created many potential problems resolving continuity with existing canon, though as I mentioned, resolving them could be quite interesting (but I'm not exactly optimistic).
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #40 on: 03 Jun 2009, 10:08 »

That's entirely fair. The concept was utter shit and I don't see what would've been wrong with just going the extremely successful AvP video game route of throwing the Colonial Marines in the middle of everything.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #41 on: 03 Jun 2009, 18:15 »

I think the biggest problem, and IMO the biggest failing of both AVP movies, was that the creators seemed to think that humans were necessary to the story at all.  Why are humans required?  To make it "more interesting" for the audience?  Give them someone to related to?  I didn't see why that was necessary.  But if they do choose to include the AVP movies as canon as well, they did introduce the idea that "we knew" about the Alien species prior to the events of the first movie.  They could take that idea and run with it.  Weyland-Yutani (or its parent companies) has known about them since the events of AVP and AVPR, and The Nostromo stumbled across something horrible, but which was not previously unknown to us.  Okay, that could be interesting, actually.

Humans are needed. They just have to be written well.

Has anyone here played the AvP2 game? That's what either of the movies should've been.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #42 on: 11 Jun 2009, 22:48 »

And this is why the 00s are known as the nostalgia decade. I just hope this dren is worth my momentary attention.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #43 on: 15 Jun 2009, 21:56 »

Zack Efron as the new John Hurt? If something alien and virulently carnivorous burst out of his chest, I'd be delighted.

Where did you get this information?  I really hope you're making a joke and I just don't get it.  I wasn't very angry about this new Alien movie business, but if Zack Efron is going to be in it, I might have to scream.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #44 on: 15 Jun 2009, 22:11 »

Haha, no that was a little quip of my very own. Of course, the Inverse Rule of Efron applies; if you imagine it, it shall be so.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #45 on: 16 Jun 2009, 18:55 »

Haha, no that was a little quip of my very own. Of course, the Inverse Rule of Efron applies; if you imagine it, it shall be so.

Oh good.  I won't be seeing the movie anyway, but I will sleep better at night knowing that they have not gone completely out of their minds regarding this franchise.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #46 on: 16 Jun 2009, 21:18 »

Things that Zack Effron has been in haven't been any worse for his presence. He's been in mostly crap, but it wasn't crap because of him.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #47 on: 16 Jun 2009, 21:35 »

He does, however, act as a powerful representation of modern pop culture.

Alien is pretty far distanced from that kind of thing.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #48 on: 17 Jun 2009, 07:37 »

Things that Zack Effron has been in haven't been any worse for his presence. He's been in mostly crap, but it wasn't crap because of him.

I wasn't saying he's a horrible actor or anything.  I wouldn't know, because I've never watched a movie he's been in.  I'm not all that concerned with whether or not the new movie will be a good one; however, I am very concerned about the hordes of teenage fangirls that would suddenly become very interested in all things Alien.  I stay the fuck away from things that teenage girls like, and I expect them to stay the fuck away from the things that I like.  It usually works out fine, until someone decides they might make more money if they re-make something that doesn't need re-making, and they aim it towards teenagers.

For me, when I walk into some public place and I can hear them squeeing over something I once took seriously, it makes it a lot harder for me to continue to take it seriously.
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Re: Remake of Alien
« Reply #49 on: 17 Jun 2009, 08:00 »

When they realise what the essence of Alien is, I think they shall vacate quickly.

Remember, we're essentially talking about a life form that looks suspiciously like a bio-weapon that breeds by face-raping the host and destroying its innards during birth. The sheer sheer Freuditude of the situation is staggering.
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