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[Caleb]

For those of you who think there wasn't enough pointless questing in Morrowind and Oblivion.  I know I still have my saved game file!

http://www.elderscrolls.com/downloads/downloads_games.htm

This game was available on several abandonware websites years ago but it's nice that they are giving it free officially and all.

(Also has a link to Dos box on there)



Also I got Phantasmagoria for $2 at a church thrift shop and it works on my computer.

[Melodic]

This is actually pretty good news, considering that DaggerFall was the best of the series.

[Caleb]

Really?

I thought that Morrowind was the best except that my character became God-like way too soon.

Then in Oblivion I leveled too fast and I now I am considering making a new character because I am too wimpy.

Daggerfall was nice though.  Maybe you are right.  I loved the fact that I could get a magical vampiric katana in that game.

[snalin]

There's a Elder Scrolls thing - you always prefer the first one you played. I'll still check this out, though, it'll probably be fun enough.

[Alex C]

Gotta think in terms of context. Daggerfall was a buggy mess but once patched it was pretty thoroughly amazing and featured a fairly dangerous world (although not as nasty as Arena). Morrowind was great and all but I just felt too damned invincible. Oblivion I just plain don't like.

[imapiratearg]

I love the feeling of invincibility Morrowind provides.  I mean, you're the reincarnation of a fucking god, you should be pretty hard to kill.

[est]

I will have to download and try this out.  Morrowind was the first of the series that I played, and what snalin said earlier holds true in my case.  I have oftentimes wished that the two games data types were similar enough that you could swap Oblivion's graphics and physics into Morrowind.  I know that there is an ongoing mod project importing/rebuilding Morrowind in Oblivion, but it'd still have the crippled alchemy & enchanting systems and dumbed-down skills that Oblivion uses, so it wouldn't be the same.

With Oblivion, apart from the usual issues I have with the graphics, the voiceover work/inane chatter people get into over and over again, repetition of themes ("No! I will bravely/stupidly kill myself so that you can go on a-hngghh") and suchlike, it has was too much hand-holding in it.  I have been playing it a fair bit recently and enjoying it (after loading up about a bazillion mods) but when you do quests it is still pretty much just following a really obvious trail of stuff.  I wish that there was a way to turn off most of the "helpful" popups when you complete part of a quest.  I would far prefer reading a diary I found on the ground for myself to find clues on what to do next than to have a popup saying "DERP DERP I FOUND ME A DAIRY AND IT SEZ 2 KILL SUM DOODS"

Also, in regard to the difficulty level in Oblivion at least, there are plenty of mods that change your leveling rates and remove the leveled creatures, replacing them with creatures that are easier or more dangerous to you.  The only problem I have with these mods is that while for the most part you can get to know the levels of creatures and avoid the ones that are too hard for your current level humans all look the same, no matter what their level, and you don't have any of the usual game mechanics available to you to tell whether you should engage or avoid them.

[Alex C]

I love the feeling of invincibility Morrowind provides.  I mean, you're the reincarnation of a fucking god, you should be pretty hard to kill.

I don't play games for escapist power fantasy. I say this not to be contrary but to succintly explain why many modern games don't hold very much appeal to me.

[snalin]

Also, in regard to the difficulty level in Oblivion at least, there are plenty of mods that change your leveling rates and remove the leveled creatures, replacing them with creatures that are easier or more dangerous to you.  The only problem I have with these mods is that while for the most part you can get to know the levels of creatures and avoid the ones that are too hard for your current level humans all look the same, no matter what their level, and you don't have any of the usual game mechanics available to you to tell whether you should engage or avoid them.

I once saw a pretty neat mod that at least partially fixed this. It went by the logic "the imperial guard is patrolling the roads, right? So, being on the roads should be pretty safe. Sure, a bandit might set up an ambush, or there could be a wolf wandering by, but the über-monsters would be something the guard keeps far out of the local area". So it had set up the world in a way that made the higher level monsters stick to the wilderness about a minute or so away from the road, so a low level character could get around pretty easily, and a high level character could go somewhere to fight big bad monsters, without breaking the illusion.

The leveling system is pretty flawed, they did a much better job at it in Fallout 3 (although the Feral Ghoul Reaver from broken steel suddenly just popping up when you hit a certain level wasn't the best choice. Those are hard motherfuckers). The worst thing in Oblivion was to find bosses that were one-hit kills after a cave of pretty strong standard mobs, since the boss wasn't leveled but the mobs was. Still like the game, though, it's gotten a lot more bashing than it deserved. I guess fallout 3 shows what it could have been, with a more interesting plot line and world, and a lot more game testing.

[ackblom12]

I kind of feel like Oblivion deserved all the bashing it got honestly, but opinions etc etc. I'm a gonna have to try out Daggerfall. Never actually played it back in the day.

[look out! Ninjas!]

I think as soon as you think about Oblivion as a sandbox game like GTA than the RPG Holy Grail it was hyped up to be then it gets a whole lot better. Plus, I've never played a game that took better to modding than Oblivion did. There is an archaeology guild mod.

[Alex C]

I hate GTA and it's exactly what I think of when I consider a game as largely useless aside from being a power fantasy.

[Spluff]

I hate GTA and it's exactly what I think of when I consider a game as largely useless aside from being a power fantasy.

Uh, aren't all games useless? Except for maybe to do lines from the case or something, fuck, I dunno.

I guess the discs make a good frisbee.

[Alex C]

Useless was a poor word to use, but I would point out that some games pose a challenge or have game play mechanics that go beyond "Dick around while practically invulnerable."

[est]

You can slide the difficulty up in Oblivion to the point where it is actually quite hard, but the problem then is that it is hard all the goddamn time due to scaling mobs and I get bored of it quickly.  The kind of mod that snalin is talking about is a lot better.  At the moment I am running Oscuro's, but I feel like the leveling is a bit off.  For example, the mobs it puts into Kvatch were really fucking hard, despite it being quite early on in the storyline.  I also got into a situation where I had to recover from a save game due to being locked in a room with a dude who would straight up murderise me (plus his summoned skeleton champion) due to there being no way to tell how hard a certain quest was gonna be until I was at the end of it.

I run Oscuro's Overhaul plus uh, Kobu's (?) alternate leveling and it gets rid of a lot of the blandness.  You level more intuitively (and you can tweak how you want to gain levels) with attributes leveling up naturally as you use the skills associated with them, rather than having to assign attributes when you level up.  Add in darker nights & dungeons so that things actually do get dark when there is no light and deadlier traps so that the big fuck-off traps actually hurt quite a lot (normally killing you) and that is the core of my gameplay must-haves.  I think that the next game I run I will also use a mod I saw that removes the main quest line from the game, or maybe makes it so that it's been completed? Something like that.  Plus the rebuild Kvatch mod & just run around having adventures.

[look out! Ninjas!]

There are quite a few main quest delayer mods around that make it so you arrive on a boat in Anvil and need to get arrested before you start the MQ, which makes plenty more sense than the "born in a dungeon" thing Vanilla had going on.

Anyway, a thing to do in mods like OOO is to cheat up a bit at the start so you don't start out super-wimpy. There's a reason that lots of DnD videogames start you off at level 4 (Planescape: Torment) or something or Dungeonmasters tend to fudge it a little, and it's because level one is an exercise in running away like a bitch a lot.

[KvP]

That's just a problem with RPG design in general. In D&D the levelicular sweet spot is between 3 and 12. Anything below that and a critical failure roll (or a bite from a dog, if you're a low-con spellcaster) can kill you, anything above that and it's hard not to murder everything you come across. As far as pure gameplay goes that's why BG1 was more fun than BG2 - it was challenging.

[ackblom12]

Eh, BG1 wasn't fun at all compared to BG2, even gameplay wise, for most folks I know. Not that it means much, they were both pretty fantastic.

I'm actually pretty excited to see the first 4th Ed game because of the balancing that was done. The sweet spot has been expanded a ridiculous amount and 1st Level, while still boring compared to higher levels, is actually enjoyable and no longer a chore.

[Alex C]

Honestly, I preferred BG2's gameplay, but I can understand how someone could come down on the other side of the fence. Really, when it comes down to it, both are flawed for partly existing beyond the level curve KvP pointed out, but in BG1's case this typically just meant that the proper thing to do was to grab a bunch of fighters and give them plate armor and longbows so you could abuse the game's wonky movement speeds. Baldur's Gate II went the other way, causing you to spend entirely too much time in the "Wizards Rule the Earth" level bracket, but overall I find that a bit more interesting due to the fact that you have more effective options than "Send the pointy end flying at the monsters" and "I hit him until he's no longer a problem." Most of all I would point out that the game really hits the ground running by putting you into play right smack in the middle of the power curve's sweet spot and that I suspect most people didn't really find their first romp through the game all that terribly easy unless they went through and finished each and every stronghold quest.

[Alex C]

Man, I feel silly for having typed that.


I mean, I'm posting in response to KvP and the subject is the relative merits of the Baldur's Gate games. We may as well discuss whether we prefer joy or happiness.

[look out! Ninjas!]

Personally, I much prefer the Aristotlean happiness. Joy is just so fleeting.

Aaaaannnnnnnyyyyyyywwwwwaaaaaayyyyyy, any of you guys want to point me to some nice Daggerfall mods? I've essentially given up on Vanilla Bethesda.
Not that they make bad games (a point I have and will defend) it's just that there are people doing amazing things with their games that it's pointless to a) go back to basics, and b) start there.

[NotAFanOfFenders]

I think Oblivion is the most fun game i've ever played.

There, i said it. It felt good.

[variable_star]

Old school Daggerfall, possibly the greatest shitty game ever made. I recall dozens of times "falling" through the floor of a dungeon into the great unknown, never to return. It had probably the most massive world of any game, but 98% of it was randomized. I think Daggerfall, Wayrest, and Sentinel were the only three unique ones. I loved the sprites, too, especially the shopkeepers whose only movement was to thrust their arm out as if to say "Have a look at my wares!" The back of the cd case claimed you could "immerse yourself in a constantly evolving world of political intrigue". Yeah, that never happens.

Oh man, those naked nymphs got me every time. How're you supposed to kill them when you're furiously masturbating to them? The developers should really consider this sort of thing prior to release. Like in the second part of Ultima 7, Serpent's Isle, when Frigidazzi starts doing that dance....her hot, naked, pixellized body gracefully cavorting for the Avatar. I think I blacked out the first time.

Yep, everything I know about sex I learned from computer RPGs. And pr0n.

Oh yeah, I liked Oblivion too, NotAFanOfFenders. Despite its flaws, it's still the most beautiful and immersive RPG ever made. Actually I'd have to tie it with Fallout 3, both not surprisingly by Bethesda. I fuckin' love post-apoctalyptic chaos. I also like Fenders.

What don't I like? When Filberccio interrupted Frigidazzi's dance for the Avatar. What a douche that guy was, am I right?

[est]

Man, I wish all new guys talked about their masturbatory habits.  That would be tops.

[Inlander]

He's right about Filberccio in Serpent's Isle, though. Total cock-block.

[variable_star]

Man, I wish all new guys talked about their masturbatory habits.  That would be tops.

If you want me to PM you with all the salacious details, just ask. Don't be coy.

[supersheep]

no

please start a thread so everyone can see

[Geekdumb]

DaggerFall was probably the first game I played where you could completely ignore the story line and do whatever you wanted.  But yeah those dungeons did get awful sometimes.  Either you fell through the floor and had to go back to your last save or you spent 20 minutes trying to ready the absolutely awful dungeon map system.  I can't even tell you how many times I had no idea where I was in relation to anything after the first 10 minutes of running around in there.

Oh and I almost freaked out when I heard the noises the succubi made in Diablo when you hit them...really wish my parents hadn't heard them also.

[Caleb]

They were doing the "Fool in Morrowind" thing over at Rock Paper Shotgun and I was considering using those mods and starting a new game.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/23/a-fool-in-morrowind-day-1-trousers/

I actually downloaded the huge fix patch for Gothic 3 and I was kinda enjoying it.  Unlike some other games there is a real possibility of dying and the leveling up system doesn't totally suck.  The melee combat system still sorta sucks though.  Does anyone else not hate this game?

[Wyvernhand]

Daggerfall was my FIRST computer game.  Sure, I had played NES, and even SNES, IIRC, but this and WC2 were my first 2 games.  And yea, there may have been some fapping...

Anyway, I played it back before the patches came in and fixed a bunch of stuff.  You know, back in the days when you could cast levitate, crouch in a stairwell, and then float up through the ceiling into the VOID, then fly around in there until you found the quest NPC/item/switch/whatever, then backtrack to the nearest stairwell, and float back up through the steps.  Sure made some of the repetitious grind a lot easier.

Also, if you made custom items that increased your various magic skills over ~120, the game would kinda bug out and magic costs for any spell using that skill would be set to 5.  Then you could create spells like 100-100 + 100-100/level damage spells and levitate spells at max speed for 1 hour/level.

And then there were the fun-filled lycanthropy rages.  Apparently guards never got any gear above iron.  You could go were-pig and rampage, killing as many civilians as possible in as short a time as possible.  When the guards come, you just train them around since they can't hurt you.  Then you can do creative stuff like writing with bodies in the fountains in front of the balmora palace, or other creative places.  And the loot...omg the loot!  If the guards just used the stuff they carried, they'd actually be able to hurt you!  Instead, just run it to a vendor and bank your infinite loot!

Man, thats only about half of it too...

[variable_star]

Daggerfall was my FIRST computer game.  Sure, I had played NES, and even SNES, IIRC, but this and WC2 were my first 2 games.  And yea, there may have been some fapping...

Oh do tell, you little tease.