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Poll

Is My Music Pretentious?

yes its pretentious trash. give up
- 8 (20.5%)
this isnt music. its just noise
- 2 (5.1%)
strange but oddly interesting
- 8 (20.5%)
study music theory because there's some potential there
- 17 (43.6%)
genius
- 4 (10.3%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Voting closed: 14 Aug 2009, 13:52


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Author Topic: Is My Music Pretentious?  (Read 50006 times)

phooey

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #100 on: 07 Aug 2009, 09:27 »

Explain to me again why grasping the concept of a Bose-Einstein condensate is less difficult than that of music theory, please.  I must have missed it the first time around.

ETA -

Okay, sorry for being sarcastic.  I don't know which bit of our conversation you're trying to make a statement about - that so much of it is theoretical and impractical to the average person such that they don't know that it is happening?  Or are you saying these are pretentious, overcomplicated words and concepts that we use to bolster our own glutted egos?  Or some other thing?  I'll probably disagree, but for discussion's sake.
« Last Edit: 07 Aug 2009, 10:00 by phooey »
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KharBevNor

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #101 on: 07 Aug 2009, 12:58 »

Specifically the post above mine. I was just whacking off some random star-trek style technobabble off the top of my head.

Perhaps I could feel differently about music theory if it did not seem to be a subjective and arbitrary set of ideas. As far as I'm concerned, if there is more than one possible way of explaining something that has equal validity then both ways of explaining it are probably wrong, or worthless, or just some shit some dude made up that seems to work some of the time. See psychiatry and religion.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #102 on: 07 Aug 2009, 13:35 »

Can we presume English is the correct language then, since it's the one you're using, and all the others are worthless?
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pwhodges

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #103 on: 07 Aug 2009, 13:40 »

Who the hell wants that kind of joyless experience?

Why do you think that people who are not like you are somehow wrong?  That does nothing but highlight your own limitations.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #104 on: 07 Aug 2009, 14:52 »

I would headbang at a Stravinsky concert; people rioted at the first performance of Rite of Spring.

I think part of the problem has to do with people treating this music as being "sacred". It's music just like any other, and we should be able to enjoy it as we see fit.

Movie music is enjoyed by millions, so I don't see why we can't have some badass ballets with explosions and gunfights.
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Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #105 on: 07 Aug 2009, 16:57 »

Exactly! Lots of that stuff is really good. However, it's also an argument for countless other bands and artists who created and are creating defiant, original, untutored music.

I legitimately want all art to be as democratized as possible but I'd really appreciate it if people didn't take "everyone make art all the time" to mean "don't put any damn effort into it."
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MadassAlex

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #106 on: 07 Aug 2009, 17:16 »

The "don't put any effort into it" mindset is what separates shitty, but empassioned and therefore somewhat appreciable music from flat-out borefests.

Ultimately, Khar's ears seem closed, but I'll repeat this once more:

Music theory is a system of description more than anything else. It's simply a standardisation of language, in a literal sense. It's a system that allows everyone to use the same language terms to describe their musical ideas. It doesn't actually alter the melodies or harmonies at all. Anyone who knows theory understands how it can only be limiting to those with only the most basic knowledge of it.

I think it's worth noting that plenty of artists that claim not to know theory adhere ridiculously well to its conventions regardless.

Therein pretty much lies another point - not knowing theory doesn't seem to make that much of a difference in terms of inventiveness, and it's generally the learned musicians that are more likely to push boundaries.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #107 on: 08 Aug 2009, 03:27 »

Can we presume English is the correct language then, since it's the one you're using, and all the others are worthless?

English is a language created democratically by everyone who uses it to speak and read, constantly changing and metamorphosing. Music theory is an elitist and arbitrary system. It is as much barrier as enabler, and all it enables is imitation. And who said "don't put any effort" into it? I've been working on my current album for two years. I'm simply not composing it according to dull and tedious rules. I just do what sounds good, which is all you should ever do.

People are taking my comments about classical music far too seriously. I'm playing devils advocate a lot here, but I do think there's a real core of truth to what I'm saying.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #108 on: 08 Aug 2009, 06:40 »

Still rather puts paid to your claim that if there are two different but equally worthy ways expressing something both are wrong and/or worthless though. Where you're seeing a confining system others see a means of communicating information, nothing more nor less. English has its rules of grammar and although you can use the language very adeptly without articulating them it can become incredibly hard to help someone else understand the language without being able to tell them the way it works. My ability to articulate grammatical rules is appalling despite being able to use English to a pretty high standard, so when I tried to help out at a conversational English class I found myself unable to help people learn how to do what I can. Grammatical rules are the way to communicate that information just like music theory can be the way to communicate that information about music.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #109 on: 08 Aug 2009, 08:20 »

English is a language created democratically by everyone who uses it to speak and read, constantly changing and metamorphosing. Music theory is an elitist and arbitrary system. It is as much barrier as enabler, and all it enables is imitation.


False.

In addition, only music notation is in any way elitist, as it was a system commissioned by the Church to set a standard for representing music on paper.

Music theory itself, while having a consistent method of communication throughout genres, follows different conventions depending upon who you talk to, what kind of music education (if any) they've had, what genre of music you're playing, what the role of the notes in the harmony are and much more. Much of this is unofficial. Jazz musicians, for instance, tend to treat things differently than classical musicians when discussing and expressing theory. But both are drawing from the same concepts, much like how some say "to-may-toe" and some say "to-mah-toe". Neither is wrong.

I'm simply not composing it according to dull and tedious rules. I just do what sounds good, which is all you should ever do.

Music theory does not prevent you from doing that and is not, as we have pointed out numerous times, a set of rules. It is a set of language conventions.

If you care to claim otherwise, could you explain, in detail, why I am wrong? I'm not looking for the usual soapboxing here - give me the hard facts on how theory can damage creativity.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #110 on: 08 Aug 2009, 10:04 »

It damages my creativity, because it is an incomprehensible load of utter garbage.
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Zingoleb

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #111 on: 08 Aug 2009, 10:06 »

If someone only feels the need to learn the basics of music theory and go no further, they'll be limited in their lack of knowledge. If someone only learns, say, the C major scale, and that's all they'll ever play in, that would be especially damaging, as opposed to just telling them to play what sounds right to them.

Edit: What the hell, when I clicked on the 'go to new post' button it skipped like half a page, which I ended up reading way after I made this post. Son of a ...
« Last Edit: 08 Aug 2009, 13:14 by Zingoleb »
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Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #112 on: 08 Aug 2009, 12:06 »

And who said "don't put any effort" into it?

khar's arguments are a wonderful series of arguments in favour of the billion albums of ambient music you can find made by dudes on the internet who have no idea how to write a song or even approach music without turning out the light and fumbling in the darkness like a kid who's never seen a bra before

Exactly! Lots of that stuff is really good.

this is called "being an enabler"
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Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #113 on: 08 Aug 2009, 12:12 »

Khar I know that you think you're making REALLY GREAT POINTS with this devil's advocate thing you got going but has it occurred to you that possibly you aren't really changing a lot of minds on theory, you aren't really making very good points, and you're frequently clowning yourself?
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KharBevNor

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #114 on: 08 Aug 2009, 13:12 »

Has it occured to you that I have mental health and drink problems.

But seriously this shit is properly rooted in Sappir-Whorf etc.
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pwhodges

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #115 on: 08 Aug 2009, 14:11 »

Sapir-Whorf (which is not universally accepted) would have some bearing if music required theory in order to be made.  But as music can be considered a language of its own, that is not so; theory then should be seen as merely descriptive, explaining aspects of the musical language in terms that enable study and analysis.  The use of study and analysis is not to tell you how to write music, but to help you understand why a particular bit of music works as it does - this is useful if it is something you wish to emulate (or repeat, if you wrote it) in another context.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #116 on: 08 Aug 2009, 16:59 »

Still rather puts paid to your claim that if there are two different but equally worthy ways expressing something both are wrong and/or worthless though. Where you're seeing a confining system others see a means of communicating information, nothing more nor less. English has its rules of grammar and although you can use the language very adeptly without articulating them it can become incredibly hard to help someone else understand the language without being able to tell them the way it works. My ability to articulate grammatical rules is appalling despite being able to use English to a pretty high standard, so when I tried to help out at a conversational English class I found myself unable to help people learn how to do what I can. Grammatical rules are the way to communicate that information just like music theory can be the way to communicate that information about music.

People need to stop using this music theory=syntax analogy because if it was a good analogy (it isn't) all it does is show just how ridiculously broad a definition of "music theory" you are talking about here.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #117 on: 09 Aug 2009, 10:59 »

It damages my creativity, because it is an incomprehensible load of utter garbage.

I am pretty persistent, and can continue to ask until you give a reasoned answer.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #118 on: 09 Aug 2009, 16:12 »

A reasoned answer to what?

I've given answers both reasonable and flippant.

Also, this is more the equivalent of him trying to play me at Halo but I don't even own an x-box.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #119 on: 09 Aug 2009, 23:10 »

That is so apt.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #120 on: 10 Aug 2009, 02:12 »

Ok, let's lay it out. Musical theory describes a series of sounds and the relation between those sounds. Musical theory is a product of our culture. It is subjective: if you imagine a group of people growing up in some isolated environment where the frequency of all notes had been shifted by 100 hertz, they would see that set of sounds as normal, and would think our general music is weird and sludgy, just as we might think of there's as slightly grating and squeaky (many people, though, might not actually notice. 100 hertz isn't much). In fact, the way one could make the most interesting music is if one had never heard music before. Furthermore, there is an elitism factor involved. The more you know about musical theory, the more you tend to appreciate musicians who employ it in complex ways, even if these complex ways sound like utter shite. Examples of this for me personally would be people whacking off about the 'complex melodies' and time signature changes in garbage like Converge and The Dillinger Escape Plan. Folk musicians got by for thousands of years without even writing music down. I wish I knew even less about music sometimes. Having knowledge of music theory may be great for making music, but only if you want to make reference to music that has come before. A lot of people do, that's great. But I hold that for creating original music, it is not necessary, and can hinder. It's the difference between some barely competent punk band somehow managing to great an amazing, glorious noise and Yngwie fucking Malmsteen giving all the music students a hard-on with just how fast he can work through all the scales.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #121 on: 10 Aug 2009, 05:02 »

Musical theory describes a series of sounds and the relation between those sounds.

Yes.

Musical theory is a product of our culture. It is subjective: if you imagine a group of people growing up in some isolated environment where the frequency of all notes had been shifted by 100 hertz, they would see that set of sounds as normal, and would think our general music is weird and sludgy, just as we might think of there's as slightly grating and squeaky (many people, though, might not actually notice. 100 hertz isn't much).

It's not subjective. The terms you use to explain things might change, but the note relationships are the same. Add 100 hertz to A and C, and the difference between them is still classified and works as a "minor third", which is just a way of describing the sound that always results when two notes of that aural distance are played together. That's why music theory is such a powerful tool - it not only lacks restrictions, but is relative to where you start or the terms you prefer to use.

In short, only the descriptive terms of music theory and music itself is subjective. The relationship between notes is always the same, and that's what music theory describes. Therefore, music theory describes something observably objective.

Furthermore, there is an elitism factor involved. The more you know about musical theory, the more you tend to appreciate musicians who employ it in complex ways, even if these complex ways sound like utter shite.


That's an opinion bred from ignorance and counter-elitism. I have a strong grasp of theory and I find plenty of modern classical music absolutely atrocious; an awful, cacophonous mess of dissonance without anything clever in its rhythm, harmony or melody. A genre of music seemingly dominated by music school graduates without any grasp of writing pleasing music that look down upon extreme music without understanding that they surpass its "flaws" manyfold.

I am of an opinion that the core of classical music mostly resides in soundtracks - appropriate, given that much of the classical we consider staples of music was written for the same purpose.

Examples of this for me personally would be people whacking off about the 'complex melodies' and time signature changes in garbage like Converge and The Dillinger Escape Plan. Folk musicians got by for thousands of years without even writing music down.


Folk musicians got by for thousands of years with poor intonation and the same bloody songs, not to mention a general lack of musical progression which, in turn, showcases a lack of creativity. In comparison, when the Church organised music in a way that previous music could be referenced, progression was made possible as all the previous music did not have to be repeated to be kept. Therefore, from European folk music and Gregorian chants we developed baroque, and from it classical, and from that, romantic.
There was also the blues/jazz progression from the slave community of North America, which eventually allowed for the creation of the various kinds of rock music. I think that implies that referencing previous music allows for more progression, with the amount of progression essentially defined by the amount of music one has to draw from. Think about Led Zeppelin, and their combination of hard rock, blues and folk elements. It's still weird today.

I wish I knew even less about music sometimes. Having knowledge of music theory may be great for making music, but only if you want to make reference to music that has come before. A lot of people do, that's great.

All music references what you've heard before. That's the nature of the way we store information and express ourselves, and applying language terms to the elements you hear changes absolutely nothing at all.

But I hold that for creating original music, it is not necessary, and can hinder. It's the difference between some barely competent punk band somehow managing to great an amazing, glorious noise and Yngwie fucking Malmsteen giving all the music students a hard-on with just how fast he can work through all the scales.

You ignore that punk bands, even in the early days during the 70s, were calling upon what they considered the true spirit of rock and roll, so they were always going to reference rock bands that developed before the explosion of progressive rock. In addition, if you look at the chord progressions of many punk bands, you'll find that the actual harmony of the music isn't what's original - it's the way they upped the ante with rhythm and dissonance. Most punk is a bit of melodic singing, a bit of yelling, some rock 'n' roll riffs and a whole lot of major chords. There's nothing mind-bogglingly magical about it - it can just be incredibly effective.

It must be noted that Yngwie, much like punk, has to be judged according to the context of his time. No-one really did what he was doing - applying classical violin phrasing to guitar. Richie Blackmore did it to an extent, but Blackmore called upon his classical phrasing like Iron Maiden calls upon their harmony riffs, while the rest of his phrasing was powerfully rooted in the blues. Yngwie, while studying phrasing more conventionally rock 'n' roll as well, did something entirely new by making the majority of his melodic phrasing so firmly entrenched in Baroque music. What's amazing about Yngwie is less his speed, and more how easily he calls upon melodic phrases that are distinctly sweeping and wide in scope without sacrificing the intensity of speed.

Because of Yngwie, we had amazing guitarists like Jason Becker and Marty Friedman. His phrasing has become a staple influence on death metal, due to the compatibility of the genre with the sinister diminished arpeggio, a favourite of Yngwie. Decapitated and Necrophagist are highly notable examples of death metal bands that would be nowhere near as interesting without Yngwie's influence.
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Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #122 on: 10 Aug 2009, 10:38 »

you two are talking about creativity like it's a d&d stat
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Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #123 on: 10 Aug 2009, 10:46 »

also this

Furthermore, there is an elitism factor involved. The more you know about musical theory, the more you tend to appreciate musicians who employ it in complex ways, even if these complex ways sound like utter shite

is super funny because you're literally railing against people who are able to broaden their tastes, their ability to appreciate music and/or their ability to discuss that music beyond the accurate but super-reductive "if it sounds good, it is good"
« Last Edit: 10 Aug 2009, 10:48 by Johnny C »
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #124 on: 10 Aug 2009, 11:59 »

I think music theory is pretty fun sometimes.

I don't like the OPs music. Sorry OP.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #125 on: 10 Aug 2009, 20:41 »

is super funny because you're literally railing against people who are able to broaden their tastes, their ability to appreciate music and/or their ability to discuss that music beyond the accurate but super-reductive "if it sounds good, it is good"

This is absolutely untrue. Broadening taste is not equivalent to improving it. It is not a requirement that I be able to expound on the subtle flavours of shite bef0re saying thst I do not like eating turds.Also madassaex devoted a space longer than my post to expounding the merits of yngwie cuntshitting nunfucking arsedevouring malmsteen, so I now win forever.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #126 on: 10 Aug 2009, 21:53 »

It's lucky Johnny wasn't talking about improving taste in the first place. Not to mention that "improving" one's musical taste is an act so subjective as to be effectively meaningless anyway.

You don't have to know about music, or shit, to know you don't like it. But it helps if you want to explain why.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #127 on: 11 Aug 2009, 01:36 »

That was khar, in case anyone couldn't tell.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #128 on: 11 Aug 2009, 02:12 »

This is absolutely untrue. Broadening taste is not equivalent to improving it.

Broad taste is the closest thing one can have to "good taste", which is ridiculously subjective. Broad taste allows one to appreciate a large variety of musical elements and viewpoints, which is more important in my book than necessarily listening to the bands that are considered the best.

It is not a requirement that I be able to expound on the subtle flavours of shite bef0re saying thst I do not like eating turds. Also madassaex devoted a space longer than my post to expounding the merits of yngwie cuntshitting nunfucking arsedevouring malmsteen, so I now win forever.

As opposed to you devoting exactly one sentence to an objective statement? Subjectivity cannot win a debate of this nature.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #129 on: 11 Aug 2009, 05:23 »

...you..cannot win a debate of this nature.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #130 on: 11 Aug 2009, 08:18 »

As opposed to you devoting exactly one sentence to an objective statement? Subjectivity cannot win a debate of this nature.

did you just try and make the claim that is possible for objectivity to have any relevance in a debate about musical taste?

i mean, i disagree with khar pretty strongly here but this is just silly
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #131 on: 11 Aug 2009, 10:10 »

Clearly I am not, as I rejected that idea in the same post. I was commenting on Khar's method of debate, where he substitutes raw opinion where reason should be.
« Last Edit: 11 Aug 2009, 10:19 by MadassAlex »
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pinkpiche

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #132 on: 11 Aug 2009, 10:46 »

Imagine going to a party without any knowledge of human beings, social etiquette, basic local or global culture, clothes, music, literature, fashion or design... Would that be interesting? Yes (people would laugh and point fingers), but totally unoriginal and stupifyingly meaningless.

That is the same as saying music (art in general) should be untainted by outside impressions to be interesting/original/good/stimulating.

Learn what you can about what you like and then use it.
« Last Edit: 11 Aug 2009, 10:49 by pinkpiche »
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #133 on: 11 Aug 2009, 11:30 »

Clearly I am not, as I rejected that idea in the same post. I was commenting on Khar's method of debate, where he substitutes raw opinion where reason should be.

Subjectivity cannot win a debate of this nature.

ok now i'm confused. subjectivity is the only thing that's relevant in a debate of this nature. it's personal preference, more or less.
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #134 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:07 »

Imagine going to a party without any knowledge of human beings, social etiquette, basic local or global culture, clothes, music, literature, fashion or design... Would that be interesting? Yes (people would laugh and point fingers), but totally unoriginal and stupifyingly meaningless.

I would just like to say (since I cannot talk about music but boy howdy can I talk about parties) that the least interesting people at any given party are the ones with the well refined opinions on these topics you list and the best people to have fun with are the ones that don't have carefully honed senses of etiquette

god what is with you music nerds and bad analogies
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Quote from: Emilio
power metal set in the present is basically crunk

Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #135 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:12 »

the least interesting people at any given party are the ones with the well refined opinions on [basic local or global culture, clothes, music, literature, fashion or design]

this isn't remotely true

e: at a stretch i guess fashion can be kinda boring to talk about
« Last Edit: 11 Aug 2009, 12:19 by Johnny C »
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #136 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:21 »

Johnny don't take this the wrong way but nobody has ever jumped a motorbike over anything on fire at any of the parties you go to, have they?
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Quote from: Emilio
power metal set in the present is basically crunk

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #137 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:22 »

What I am saying is that maybe it is possible to find those kinds of parties interesting if you are also the kind of person who would engage in an entirely arbitrary debate on music theory on the internet
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Quote from: Emilio
power metal set in the present is basically crunk

Windyo

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #138 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:27 »

That's a bad analogy if I ever saw one. At a party those who have a high sense of etiquette stay with those of high etiquette, but that's just human behavior.

If you're talking about music, most people (except fanboys but those exist in any culture) aren't uptight about music in general. Sure they may not like another type of music but mostly musicians respect and exchange with other musicians. And  that has nothing to do with the original argument...

The real point is that in music, "rules" are no rules. They are a guideline to how previous music has been made, what works, etc. And once you know what has been made, you can try to do something else, while retaining musicality. Hence the fact that Music Theory is also interesting if you want to think outside of the box.
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Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #139 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:30 »

Johnny don't take this the wrong way but nobody has ever jumped a motorbike over anything on fire at any of the parties you go to, have they?

you're right, i don't have any interest in nascar, monster truck rallies or voting for john mccain. why do you ask
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Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #140 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:31 »

*needs fire, things which amuse children, drug abuse in order to enjoy self*
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Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #141 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:34 »

i wish i knew how to "party"
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #142 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:36 »

Johnny I am really sorry that your idea of unwinding from the stress and minutia of everyday life is to sit around a table sipping tea and discussing critical theory instead of doing whatever the fuck you feel like and enjoying yourself
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Quote from: Emilio
power metal set in the present is basically crunk

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #143 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:37 »

Also the whole Motorbikes + fire = NASCAR PARTY assumption was pretty fucking insulting dude you do realise that, right?
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Quote from: Emilio
power metal set in the present is basically crunk

Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #144 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:39 »

as is the implication that either you're a sober, straight-laced uptight asshole who has no idea how to unwind or you are the only person worth spending leisure time with???
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Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #145 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:41 »

the nascar thing was only off the mark insofar as the other type of dude who likes to party that way is the sort of guy who incessantly held up student union meetings a couple years back because he kept petitioning them to immediately and unconditionally end their contract with Killer Coke despite the fact that it would cost the union an exorbitant amount of money (thanks shitty contract! there has to be a way out of you but it isn't that way)
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Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #146 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:44 »

maybe and this is just a wild guess but maybe it is entirely possible to enjoy yourself and also know things
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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #147 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:44 »

as is the implication that either you're a sober, straight-laced uptight asshole who has no idea how to unwind or you are the only person worth spending leisure time with???

I didn't say that you are making inferences dude are you ok I was about to just abuse the shit out of you for basically being an elitist asshole but basically this sounds like stress posting to me do you want a hug, maybe I can send you a soothing picture of baby ducks?
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Quote from: Emilio
power metal set in the present is basically crunk

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #148 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:46 »

maybe and this is just a wild guess but maybe it is entirely possible to enjoy yourself and also know things

I do this all the time

why do you assume I don't know this
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Quote from: Emilio
power metal set in the present is basically crunk

Johnny C

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Re: Is My Music Pretentious?
« Reply #149 on: 11 Aug 2009, 12:57 »

I didn't say that you are making inferences dude are you ok I was about to just abuse the shit out of you for basically being an elitist asshole but basically this sounds like stress posting to me do you want a hug, maybe I can send you a soothing picture of baby ducks?

you're right i have no clue where i could have got that ide
Johnny I am really sorry that your idea of unwinding from the stress and minutia of everyday life is to sit around a table sipping tea and discussing critical theory instead of doing whatever the fuck you feel like and enjoying yourself
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