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Author Topic: Terrible, well renowned novelists  (Read 48250 times)

a pack of wolves

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Terrible, well renowned novelists
« on: 04 Aug 2009, 18:47 »

I was going to post this as a reply in the remakes thread but it was getting too long and becoming far too much of a derailment. Hence, a thread for discussing those novelists who have a significant reputation and why you think they're awful. And yes I realise this doesn't make for the greatest thread but it would have been a worse reply in an existing thread and I just couldn't resist.

He's definitely written some poor things, but 'Money' and 'Time's Arrow' are quite excellent.  He doesn't attempt to play around with grand ideas, but his style definitely works wonders in a few cases.

I never read Time's Arrow. Money I got bored with after a while and didn't finish but I seem to remember it being at least better than London Fields. I've never finished that either, but the sickening level of hatred towards the British working class he spits out in that novel genuinely appalls me and I wonder at how few people comment on his bigotry. And unlike TS Eliot for example where there is truly superb writing to be appreciated along with the small-minded hate Amis is terrible. He writes turgid prose, overblown sentences that bludgeon you with their clumsiness and tedium. Just try reading the first few pages of London Fields, they basically sum up everything that's wrong with British fiction. Basically, the man hates me, my family and most of the people I know and dear god would I love to do serious physical harm to him.

Which book do you think is his best?  I can't recall which is his shortest, but I'll guess at 'Cosmopolis', which I haven't read.  But you really don't think that 'White Noise' offers anything of value?  And though 'Underworld' is something of an overwhelming mess at times, there are passages which are engulfing and rather incredible.  Certainly though, he tends towards being a tad overobvious with his ideas, especially in his plays.

I was thinking of The Body Artist. A ghost story where the artistic and intellectual petite bourgeoisie are haunted by the spectre of the working classes, even having their own dead consumed and projected back at them through the lower class? Now that's interesting. Thing is, I'm not at all convinced that's the novel Delillo attempted to write. It's in there so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I suspect it might have been something more along the lines of White Noise that he was intending to produce.

For me, White Noise suffers from the same problem as a lot of American fiction: it is labouring under the delusion that Nabokov's Pale Fire wasn't utter crap. It's a bit comic and there are middle class American academics... by this point due to the collected efforts of Delillo, Auster, Nabokov and their ilk dear god do I never want to hear about American academics having issues ever again. Will the book be a bit absurdist and maybe have an occasional nod to magic realism but in a very postmodernist way? Oh it will what a shock. American academics whose wives cheat on them and who are always obsessed with death and invariably have vast amounts of time to very unrealistically sit around the house (the body artist's protagonist appears to be the world's richest performance artist) and who live lives curiously divorced from things like work and class. There are things of value in reading white noise but they're mostly points of attack against self-indulgent middle class navel gazing. As for Underworld I very possibly never got to the well written bits because, well, it's massive and uninteresting (not unlike nearly everything Salman Rushdie's written in the past twenty years).
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scarred

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #1 on: 04 Aug 2009, 21:30 »

I feel like this thread is gonna start some blood feuds. That being said:

Ernest Hemingway.

He's not absolutely terrible, he did write some good shit ("The Short and Happy Life of Frances Macomber," "The Snows of Kilimanjaro"), but all of his "renowned" works are really, really poorly written. "All Along the Western Front" is basically one giant run-on sentence. I mean, really? Semi-colons don't count, you hack.

John Irving.

I've only read "A Prayer for Owen Meany," but it put me off reading any more Irving ever. It would have an interesting, moving, well-written chapter, and then it would leap 30 years into the future where the narrator would lament about how pointless his life is for 30-odd pages before he had another flashback to his childhood with Owen. And none of it would relate to the larger themes of the book. Ugh. "Prayer" is one of those books that's around 600 pages, and should be 200. At most.

That's all I've got. I'll wait for someone else to start the Ayn Rand discussion.
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Ikrik

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #2 on: 05 Aug 2009, 00:44 »

Christopher Moore

If I have one more person tell me that his stuff is the most hilarious thing they've ever read I might have an aneurism.  I tried reading Lamb and I believe something about vampires. It was absolutely horrible and not even all that witty.  A comedy about jesus' brother is something that a really funny novel could be written about.  Unfortunately Christopher Moore doesn't seem to use any of that concept to any potential.

->scarred

We might have a blood feud if you don't put Old Man and the Sea in the good shit that he wrote.  That book broke my heart.

And I believe it was Officer Barbrady who summed up Ayn Rand the best

"Yes, at first I was happy to be learning how to read. It seemed exciting and magical, but then I read this: Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. I read every last word, and because of this shit, I am never reading again."
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JD

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #3 on: 05 Aug 2009, 00:49 »

Stephenie Meyer: 'Nuff said
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scarred

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #4 on: 05 Aug 2009, 01:07 »

->scarred

We might have a blood feud if you don't put Old Man and the Sea in the good shit that he wrote.  That book broke my heart.

I don't feel like I have the authority to make official comment on the Old Man and the Sea, seeing as how the last time I read it, I was A) in 7th grade and B) hated it on principle for being a required book. That being said, I don't really have a desire to revisit it. It's definitely not a work I would use to showcase his deficiencies.
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Joseph

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #5 on: 05 Aug 2009, 04:03 »

"All Along the Western Front" is basically one giant run-on sentence. I mean, really? Semi-colons don't count, you hack.

I don't like Hemingway much either, but I don't think that this is the best way to critique him, as then you would have to apply the same logic to 'Ulysses', and you would be wrong to do so.
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Surgoshan

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #6 on: 05 Aug 2009, 08:53 »

Stephenie Meyer: 'Nuff said

A thousand times this.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #7 on: 05 Aug 2009, 09:58 »

John Steinbeck, mostly because I had to read The Red Pony in 3rd grade.

Fuck that guy.
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scarred

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #8 on: 05 Aug 2009, 10:36 »

NOOOoooo

"Grapes of Wrath" and "East of Eden" are two of my faveys :X
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #9 on: 05 Aug 2009, 10:38 »

Also, screw Tolkien, his books took far too long to read.
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MadassAlex

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #10 on: 05 Aug 2009, 10:40 »

Really? I don't think they are really that long.
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ackblom12

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #11 on: 05 Aug 2009, 10:42 »

Well, as much as I love the books I cannot deny that his writing is not all it's cracked up to be. His story however was amazing.
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scarred

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #12 on: 05 Aug 2009, 10:43 »

Yeh, J.R.R. lost some credit with me after Bilbo's 60-page monologue in Fellowship, but I still love the story so much that I can't resist rereading the series every now and again.
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Be My Head

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #13 on: 05 Aug 2009, 13:14 »

The Fellowship of The Ring is my favourite book. It's not hard to read. You're all doing it wrong I'm afraid.

Maybe it's the fact that I've read the trilogy half a dozen times, but it wouldn't take me more than a week or two to re-read all 3 books.

Also, 60 page monologue? Where?
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ackblom12

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #14 on: 05 Aug 2009, 13:22 »

I've read the books several times, it doesn't change the fact that he spends far too much time on mundane unimportant descriptions and the pacing is terrible in a lot of places. I still find it very enjoyable and I'm unsure if it would have had the impact it did if it was written any other way.
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Alex C

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #15 on: 05 Aug 2009, 13:32 »

Tolkein gives me the impression that he loved language more than he loved telling stories. I came away from his stuff mildly dissatisfied, but with hindsight being what it is, I can't honestly claim to know whether a preference of form over narrative is really the issue or simply whether my perceptions are now colored by the fact that I now know more about his background.
« Last Edit: 05 Aug 2009, 13:37 by Alex C »
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mberan42

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #16 on: 05 Aug 2009, 14:09 »

Tom Clancy
Dan Brown
J.K. Rawling
John Grisham
Stephen King
Dean Koontz
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Joseph

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #17 on: 05 Aug 2009, 14:13 »

I think there is some confusion in this thread between popular and renowned novelists.  I'm pretty sure (though maybe I'm wrong) that the thread was more pointed towards authors who had been critically aclaimed.
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Be My Head

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #18 on: 05 Aug 2009, 14:15 »

I've read the books several times, it doesn't change the fact that he spends far too much time on mundane unimportant descriptions and the pacing is terrible in a lot of places. I still find it very enjoyable and I'm unsure if it would have had the impact it did if it was written any other way.

In that case we might as well include Charles Dickens and William Shakespeare. Hamlet does pretty much nothing for the first 4 acts of Hamlet, therefore it's a boring story right?
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Alex C

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #19 on: 05 Aug 2009, 14:18 »

Hamlet never took time out to break into a song about the glories of bathing.
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mberan42

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #20 on: 05 Aug 2009, 14:19 »

I think there is some confusion in this thread between popular and renowned novelists.  I'm pretty sure (though maybe I'm wrong) that the thread was more pointed towards authors who had been critically aclaimed.

Tom Clancy = renowned for his military/war thrillers
Dan Brown = renowned for his mystery/religious controvertial/whatever thrillers
J.K. Rawling = renowned for her fantasy
John Grisham = renowned for his whodunnits/mystery thrillers
Stephen King = renowned for his horror stories
Dean Koontz = renowned for whatever the hell he writes (it was a stretch to think of more people after King)

I think what you're getting at is popular <> renowned, when in fact I believe popular == renowned. Being renowned in your case doesn't mean they write high-falutin' literature.
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ackblom12

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #21 on: 05 Aug 2009, 14:27 »

I was wondering how long it would take for Stephen King to get mentioned.

R.S. Salvatore
Terry Goodkind
Robert Jordan (the latter half of WoT specifically)
Anne Rice
Anthony Burgess

Anthony Burgess is a complicated one for me. I loved A Clockwork Orange so much, but his entire ending kind of ruined it for me. I much prefer the version the publishers originally released without his consent. Admittedly it was a dick move, but it just made so much more sense.

I've read the books several times, it doesn't change the fact that he spends far too much time on mundane unimportant descriptions and the pacing is terrible in a lot of places. I still find it very enjoyable and I'm unsure if it would have had the impact it did if it was written any other way.


In that case we might as well include Charles Dickens and William Shakespeare. Hamlet does pretty much nothing for the first 4 acts of Hamlet, therefore it's a boring story right?

When did I say that Tolkien was shit or boring? I said the writing is not as well done in a technical sense as many folks seem to believe.
« Last Edit: 05 Aug 2009, 14:33 by ackblom12 »
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KharBevNor

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #22 on: 05 Aug 2009, 15:08 »

Tolkien's writing is technically incredible, it's just that he's employing the style and structure of 10th century Norse and German rather than 20th century English literature. Anyone who's ever read Heimskringla or Beowulf will see where Tolkien is taking his narrative ideas from. Also, it's worth noting that Tolkien essentially wrote Lord of the Rings as something to do on Sunday evenings after a couple of pints with C.S. Lewis., to relax after a hard week deconstructing the philological roots of kennings in proto-germanic bears son folk-tales. The incredible levels of detail are excusable because it was basically his own private fantasy world; that it was such a phenomenal success says a lot about how incredibly clever Tolkien's use of language and mythic narrative actually was. I find the supposed flaws in Tolkien's work particularly intriguing, actually, because it is a work of such obvious eccentricity, crafted with only the authors amusement in mind. When I compare this with, say, a tedious shite-spewing fuckhead like Stephen King, a man who has seemingly been trying for years to see if he can reach some unholy nadir of absolute awfulness in literature by striking a perfect balance between pretension, populism, condecension, lack of technical skill and sheer fucking ball-crushing stupidity, well.

Back on to the darlings of the literati, Virginia Woolfe. Orlando is ok, everything else is pretty much awful. She would almost certainly never have got a word published if she hadn't been busy exploring the genitals of half of Londons literary elite. Most of her work was glorified vanity projects but, in the complete opposite of Tolkien, of such obvious and tedious pretension that reading her work is basically tiring. When she does produce a good passage (I do remember a few diamonds in the awful rough that is To The Lighthouse) she always manages to fuck them up by doing something utterly stupid, like making a sentence that runs for two pages strung together with forty semi-colons.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #23 on: 05 Aug 2009, 15:12 »

Tolkein gives me the impression that he loved language more than he loved telling stories.

Well, yeah.  He's so much as said that Middle Earth was invented as a framework for his imaginary languages; something to the effect of "I wanted to create a world where 'A Star shines on the hour of our meeting' is a common greeting."  He wasn't so much writing stories as writing histories.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #24 on: 05 Aug 2009, 16:01 »

KharBevNor your answer is so right and wonderful it makes me feel a little sexy.

I would like to add On The Road. It makes me so cross I can barely be literate about why I dislike it, apart from dul dull dull.

I like so many other writers in this vein. But it leaves me cold. Cold & bored. These are not things I want from a book.
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Alex C

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #25 on: 05 Aug 2009, 16:14 »

I don't know much about Tolkein, so I figured there was a decent chance that I was merely being presumptuous. I knew that he dedicated his life to the study of literature and as such he likely loved language for language's sake, but in general I try to avoid buying too heavily into any one pat explanation. All I have to go on was my experience with the series, a glance at the "About the Author" tab and a few magazine blurbs explaining why the fantasy nerd bible is going to be the newest hot film franchise. If there's anything I've learned about myself (and perhaps people in general), it's that sometimes we buy into ideas before we even realize it simply because it seems so obvious but then only gather supporting evidence after the fact, often ignoring mounds of contradictory information on the way. I've been going through my old journals and writing experiments from high school lately and the fact that I did that very thing all the freaking time has become rather painfully obvious. It's going to be real fun going through my stuff again 10 years from now only to find out that I'm doing the same shit now too.
« Last Edit: 05 Aug 2009, 16:26 by Alex C »
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a pack of wolves

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #26 on: 05 Aug 2009, 20:35 »

I think there is some confusion in this thread between popular and renowned novelists.  I'm pretty sure (though maybe I'm wrong) that the thread was more pointed towards authors who had been critically aclaimed.

That was what I was thinking but it's a tricky line isn't it? From mberan's list I'd say Rowling does actually have a very high critical regard, at least when considered as a children's author. King, Koontz, Brown, Grisham and Clancy though, these writers are bywords for poor quality fiction so calling them out for it does seem a little redundant. But what I mainly wanted was why people hate the authors others put on a pedestal since that's the fun part, so if anyone wants to wax lyrical about the particular aspect of Grisham et al that rubs them up the wrong way then I hope they let fly.

I would like to add On The Road. It makes me so cross I can barely be literate about why I dislike it, apart from dul dull dull.

I like so many other writers in this vein. But it leaves me cold. Cold & bored. These are not things I want from a book.

Part of me really wants to defend On The Road since I do like that book. Or did anyway, I read it at the perfect age when I was about 13 or thereabouts. But... it is poorly structured, the pacing is downright awful, the events aren't nearly as interesting as the book seems to imply they should be to the reader and despite some good points (the love of movement, a eulogy to a less monitored and controlled society, presenting the protagonist/author as a real twat) it really isn't a great book in the end so I find myself without much of a leg to stand on.

Back on to the darlings of the literati, Virginia Woolfe. Orlando is ok, everything else is pretty much awful. She would almost certainly never have got a word published if she hadn't been busy exploring the genitals of half of Londons literary elite. Most of her work was glorified vanity projects but, in the complete opposite of Tolkien, of such obvious and tedious pretension that reading her work is basically tiring. When she does produce a good passage (I do remember a few diamonds in the awful rough that is To The Lighthouse) she always manages to fuck them up by doing something utterly stupid, like making a sentence that runs for two pages strung together with forty semi-colons.

Oh come on, I wouldn't say Woolf was without her problems but her work was at least reasonably novel so I think it was deserving of publishing. Sections of Mrs Dalloway seem to be quintessential modernism since they utilise the inner life of character's minds and then sweep between them with what are almost tracking shots of London, the city and the compression of humanity that it brings being absolutely key (and absolutely modernist). Like most modernist writers she's useless at dealing with anyone but the upper classes but there's still plenty to recommend her.
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Be My Head

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #27 on: 05 Aug 2009, 20:41 »


When did I say that Tolkien was shit or boring? I said the writing is not as well done in a technical sense as many folks seem to believe.

Well, I'm going to have to agree with Khar on this one; there's nothing technically wrong or stylistically wrong with his prose. For some people he might be too slow at points, or seem to wander from the main plot, but that's why I like it. You still like it anyway though, so whatever.

I agree with the other fantasy authors you listed. I like Salvatore's novels, or liked them when I was in 8th grade, and they're pretty good for easy reading that doesn't require much concentration or analysis.

Maybe not Burgess though, but I've only read A Clockwork Orange, so I can't make any judgments on his writing.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #28 on: 05 Aug 2009, 21:50 »

I would call Koontz, Clancy, Grisham, and King not poor quality but beach quality.  It's not poorly written; in fact, it's quite well written for what it is.  It's the sort of book you take with you on vacation.  You read it at the beach.  It's the equivalent of prime time television in book form.  You shut your brain down and enjoy.  It has no critical acclaim, but it's not trash.

I reserve that title for Paolini and Meyer.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #29 on: 06 Aug 2009, 01:31 »

Don't make your statements apply to me, Surgoshan.  I'm on vacation right now, and I've been reading Raymond Queneau, Jane Austen, Marcel Proust, W.G. Sebald, Virginia Woolf (fuck you Khar), and Jean Baudrillard, amongst other authors.

Anyhow, I adore Virginia Woolf.  She was an incredibly imaginative author, constantly experimenting with form and style, but in a way which obviously will not appeal to everyone, so I can understand some of the hate directed towards her.  Her lyrical ability is outstanding, and though her work can get quite dense, I find that it's reflection of the interior lives of people is quite powerful.  She's obviously quite indebted to Charlotte Bronte, and if someone didn't enjoy those authors, I could understand it if they (yes I'm using this in the singular) didn't enjoy Woolf.  As far as modernist writers go, easily my favourite, with the exception of Joyce.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #30 on: 06 Aug 2009, 02:59 »

Ahhhhhh I totally just remembered one just now

Paulo Coelho.

I had over 15 people tell me that The Alchemist is an absolutely amazing novel(la).  So I bought it at chapters for 50% off and finished it in a single afternoon.  Everything was so convenient and absolutely absurd.  The kid would encounter a problem, think about it or do something and then solve it. This happens for the entire book.  He gets totally conned by this one guy and pretty much just goes "well, that was a terrible experience, but I guess I've learned a valuable lesson."
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #31 on: 06 Aug 2009, 06:19 »

Man, all Shakespeare did was string a bunch of well-known quotes together into some clichéd mess of a story.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #32 on: 06 Aug 2009, 06:46 »

Well, what do you expect?  He was the Michael Bay of the 17th century.

Okay, that's not fair.  He was more of a John Woo.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #33 on: 06 Aug 2009, 07:36 »

Even though you're only joking, this always bears reading:

Quote from: Hamlet, Act II, scene II
I will tell you why; so shall my anticipation prevent your discovery, and your secrecy to the king and queen moult no feather. I have of late, - but wherefore I know not, - lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercises; and, indeed, it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory; this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, - why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason! how infinite in faculties! in form and moving, how express and admirable! in action, how like an angel! in apprehension, how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? man delights not me; no, nor woman neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #34 on: 06 Aug 2009, 08:24 »

It's the equivalent of prime time television in book form.

So it IS trash.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #35 on: 06 Aug 2009, 08:35 »

Maybe I just don't like Virginia Woolfe because I haven't got a vagina.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #36 on: 06 Aug 2009, 10:55 »

Emily Dickinson always seemed a bit overrated to me.  I don't like poetry much to begin with, but hers in particular makes my head start to pound almost immediately - perhaps from banging it so hard on the desk as I read...  Not sure.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #37 on: 06 Aug 2009, 11:37 »

Okay, that's not fair.  He was more of a John Woo.

Where are the dual-wielded crossbows again? I must have missed that part in English class.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #38 on: 06 Aug 2009, 12:36 »

Emily Dickinson always seemed a bit overrated to me.  I don't like poetry much to begin with, but hers in particular makes my head start to pound almost immediately - perhaps from banging it so hard on the desk as I read...  Not sure.

What poetry do you like?

Oh and Khar, I was meaning to ask, does your hatred extend to 'A Room Of One's Own' as well?
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KharBevNor

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #39 on: 06 Aug 2009, 13:19 »

That's an essay, not a novel? A rather dated essay now also. Give me Germaine Greer anyday, I prefer being punched in the balls to being subjected to unbelievably tedious drivel, sorry, fascinating experiments with form.

I really don't want to throw stones at any particular people, but something I notice with a lot of people, this applies to painting as well, is people seem to like anything just because it's avant-garde. Being unusual and being good are not one and the same thing. To continue this theme, large amounts of everything William Burroughs wrote is utter tosh.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #40 on: 06 Aug 2009, 18:24 »

Okay, that's not fair.  He was more of a John Woo.

Where are the dual-wielded crossbows again? I must have missed that part in English class.

Hamlet killed and died with a poison sword.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #41 on: 06 Aug 2009, 19:11 »

Without slow motion and jazz music, it still isn't as cool.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #42 on: 06 Aug 2009, 21:25 »

Have you ever tried falling in slow motion without the aid of a camera?  It is hard.

And you can't fault Shakespeare for the lack of jazz any more than you can fault him for the lack of cheaply available flocks of doves.

Seriously.  Woo loves flocks of doves.  Possibly literally.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #43 on: 06 Aug 2009, 21:43 »

I reserve that title for Paolini and Meyer.

I can't imagine people would read twilight on the beach. Too much sunlight.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #44 on: 06 Aug 2009, 22:52 »

I really don't want to throw stones at any particular people, but something I notice with a lot of people, this applies to painting as well, is people seem to like anything just because it's avant-garde. Being unusual and being good are not one and the same thing. To continue this theme, large amounts of everything William Burroughs wrote is utter tosh.

Being unusual and being good may not be the same thing but being unusual and being interesting frequently are, and if you're interesting then you're halfway there to being good anyway. Some fiction I enjoy simply because it's a good story well told but a lot of the time I want works that will present the world to me in new ways and that's where the avant-garde comes in. Novelty for its own sake is of course pointless but in the new and different work of any period is usually where you'll find most of the really great artists.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #45 on: 06 Aug 2009, 23:25 »

I reserve that title for Paolini and Meyer.

I can't imagine people would read twilight on the beach. Too much sunlight.

Man, I think every 14 year old girl read the sequels on the beach.  Think about it.  What does Edward do in the sun?  He sparkles. Where do you find a lot of sun? At the beach.  So how do you meet your sexy vampire lover? At the beach, just look for the shiny boys.

I saw a girl a couple weeks ago with a shirt that said "Looking for a Prince Charming." Only Prince Charming was crossed out and above it was scrawled "Vampire."  The first thing that flashed through my head was Max Shrek as Nosferatu, my girlfriend noticed my perplexed expression and told me "Twilight."  I hate how sexualized vampires have become. 
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #46 on: 06 Aug 2009, 23:37 »

Not exactly new is it? Vampires have long been about sex, STI's and fear of corruption. One of the fears that Nosferatu plays on is the idea of Orlok getting his Semitic hands on nice Christian women, and with Dracula he's the sexual predator from the East corrupting and destroying upstanding English ladies. Vampires are pretty much the most sexualised monster going.
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #47 on: 06 Aug 2009, 23:50 »

Not exactly new is it? Vampires have long been about sex, STI's and fear of corruption. One of the fears that Nosferatu plays on is the idea of Orlok getting his Semitic hands on nice Christian women, and with Dracula he's the sexual predator from the East corrupting and destroying upstanding English ladies. Vampires are pretty much the most sexualised monster going.

maybe sexualized is the wrong word....i hate how they've been turned into a sex symbol.  I hate how this monster kind of monster, who used to be about disease and terror, as you've beautifully described, has become more about being this misunderstood sex symbol. I'd blame Anne Rice but at least she targeted an older audience, they don't scream nearly as loud. 
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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #48 on: 07 Aug 2009, 07:12 »

You could thank Bram Stoker, Dracula was probably the first in line there.
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KharBevNor

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Re: Terrible, well renowned novelists
« Reply #49 on: 07 Aug 2009, 07:39 »

The problem is that vampires basically are just sexy as fuck.

Sorry.
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