Topic: Alien (Read 13737 times)

ackblom12 · « **on:** 04 Dec 2012, 00:21 »

Alien - Best Horror film ever made (with heavy competition from "John Carpenter's The Thing")

Aliens - Best Action film ever made

Discuss!

BeoPuppy · « **Reply #1 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 03:07 »

Alien - best use of a simple white T-shirt.
Aliens - ... can't even remember.

Carl-E · « **Reply #2 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 08:22 »

Alien - all the "simple" suspense of a Hitchcock thriller.

Aliens - never saw it. Didn't really want to. I knew it couldn't measure up!

ackblom12 · « **Reply #3 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 08:30 »

I highly recommend giving Aliens a try. It doesn't measure up because James Cameron knew well he shouldn't bother trying, so he took it to a fairly logical next step and decided not to make it a horror film. It's also not quite "just" an action film either though. The Ripley from Aliens is one of the best characters to ever grace the big screen.

TheEvilDog · « **Reply #4 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 08:32 »

Quote from: Carl-E on 04 Dec 2012, 08:22

Alien - all the "simple" suspense of a Hitchcock thriller.

Aliens - never saw it. Didn't really want to. I knew it couldn't measure up!

Well there's the thing. James Cameron knew he could never match Aliens to the first in terms of it being a thriller.
So he didn't go for a thriller. He went for a war film.
That's the key thing to think about when you watch it.
Which is why Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection were far inferior sequels, they tried to copy what the original did, but you can't catch lightning in a bottle twice, no matter how many times you try. Hence why Cameron went for a genre shift.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #5 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 08:35 »

Well, I actually like like Alien 3, but you have to take it as much on it's own as you possibly can. Resurrection was... it was close to not being terrible.

Edit: also, Jinx!

ackblom12 · « **Reply #6 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 08:46 »

I will also say that one of the more impressive things about Aliens is how well Cameron handled the character of Ripley, hence her being one of the best characters of all time.

Rather than keep her role genderless (which is also impressive considering the time period) as Ridley Scott did, Cameron managed to make her gender a very important part of the core thesis of the movie and managed to do it in a non exploitative and non-sexist manner. The fact this was done in 1986 and in the action genre is... just kind of fucking sad looking at the following 26 years.

TheEvilDog · « **Reply #7 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 08:59 »

Damn jinx!

I quite liked the concept of Alien 3; a handful of people, in a prison, with no real way to defend themselves against a vicious alien. But then, its the same concept as the first film, with only the setting being different. Which is why I really liked Aliens. It didn't want to repeat what Alien did, it went its own way, with what was actually a cool idea.

And you have a good point about Ripley. Her evolution over the films is really the benchmark to which protagonists should be held. Not meek or cowardly, but someone out of their depth, repeatedly thrown into situations and forced to struggle to survive. And getting stronger and a little colder after each situation, but also retaining some of their humanity. The most interesting thing about Ripley is that this happens across 4 films, not the last twenty minutes of a film as is usually the case.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #8 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 09:03 »

Well, 3 isn't just about that, it has a slightly different thesis than the first film, but wrapped up in the same style of package. It's just that it's not as well done in the areas it does retread and doesn't hold up to the earlier film's quality. Also it actually works better if you don't consider it part of the Alien franchise, which is kind of bizarre.

Edit: One of my favorite things about Aliens is also how Cameron did the genre shift. The movie is certainly an action film, though it borders on horror a lot. What keeps it from being horror though is entirely centered around Ripley herself. Unlike in the first film, Ripley never has that moment where she is powerless and broken. In the first film, it was when she confronted Seth and found out about their current mission, when she was overcome with the reality of what was going on. In the 2nd film, the way they kept it out of the horror genre is because Ripley is always in control. She's regularly terrified, she's never in a situation where it's looking good and she knows it. But she accepts it and instead refuses to break because she knows that the moment she does everyone will die, and it is a beautiful thing to behold.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #9 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 09:26 »

If you analyze Aliens, I actually wonder if it has more to say about motherhood, PTSD or Survivor's Guilt. Motherhood is definitely the one that has the most obvious and central message.

LeeC · « **Reply #10 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 09:49 »

Quote from: ackblom12 on 04 Dec 2012, 09:26

If you analyze Aliens, I actually wonder if it has more to say about motherhood, PTSD or Survivor's Guilt. Motherhood is definitely the one that has the most obvious and central message.

actually more about the womb and birth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry4epUu67vc

ackblom12 · « **Reply #11 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 09:50 »

Later Alien films definitely, Resurrection practically beats you about the head with it, but Aliens was much more centered around Maternity. Two mothers waging a war, one for survival and the protection of her child, the other for revenge of her fallen children. The most famous line, "Get away from her you bitch!", during one of the most famous fights between two figures of motherhood is just about the clearest it can get.

LeeC · « **Reply #12 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 09:53 »

Quote from: ackblom12 on 04 Dec 2012, 09:50

Later Alien films definitely, but Aliens was very much centered around Maternity. Two mothers waging a war, one for survival and the protection of her child, the other for revenge of her fallen children.

the sequel definately, but the original is more about the womb and birth.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #13 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 09:54 »

Ohhh, right yes. I'm talking specifically about Aliens with that question. What Aliens does have to say about PTSD isn't exactly the most hopeful message. It's downright depressing if you take into account Alien 3.

TheEvilDog · « **Reply #14 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 09:57 »

Quote from: ackblom12 on 04 Dec 2012, 09:26

If you analyze Aliens, I actually wonder if it has more to say about motherhood, PTSD or Survivor's Guilt. Motherhood is definitely the one that has the most obvious and central message.

Thats the interesting thing about Aliens. Scratching the surface, and the mothering is a form of transference, considering what happened to Ripley's own daughter. Go a little deeper and its another difference between humans and the xenomorphs. Nurture versus facehugging lovin'. That we see one member of a species going out of her way to ensure the welfare and well being of a child she has no biological ties to, to a member of another species who sole purpose is to reproduce, devour and reproduce, is meant to show us how utterly alien the xenomorphs are.

Then you have the comparisons between Newt and Ripley as well as the contrasts. Ripley barely survived against one alien over a couple of days, while Newt survived weeks in a hive. Ripley was functioning while Newt must have been mentally broken, yeah, she's a survivor (longer than anyone else in the franchise), but she's also a kid and barely survived.

The whole of Aliens could be seen as a metaphor for Vietnam and the PTSD many soldiers were suffering from because of that conflict. You have a number of soldiers, being sent into a confined area against an unknown enemy and being led by a corrupt bureaucrat and an incompetent officer. Which leads to so many unnecessary deaths.

Really, the fact that Aliens is able to have so many messages and facets shows that it is one of those rare sequels that matches up to the original, and does so by not feeling the need to rehash whats been done before.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #15 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 10:34 »

I actually think it would be fairly easy to argue the Aliens as a nasty mirror of the human race. What makes them so horrifying is just how familiar they can be. At our worst we're really no better than they, killing, consuming resources and reproducing at a ridiculous pace. In that sense, it would be the never ending conflict between the best and worst of human nature. Of course in this case, the best of human nature is fragile, already broken and constantly on the verge of collapse.

God I love these movies.

Cire27 · « **Reply #16 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 10:49 »

Oh man I saw Alien and Aliens on BD the other day. Totally going to buy them now.

LeeC · « **Reply #17 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 12:21 »

Quote from: LeeC on 04 Dec 2012, 09:49

Quote from: ackblom12 on 04 Dec 2012, 09:26
If you analyze Aliens, I actually wonder if it has more to say about motherhood, PTSD or Survivor's Guilt. Motherhood is definitely the one that has the most obvious and central message.
actually more about the womb and birth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry4epUu67vc

I don't mean to quote myself but I kind of had to. Watching this again (saw the old version) made me watch the movie analysis of High Plain Drifter by the same guy. Holy crap is that a great movie analysis. It's so dark. High Plains drifter is now hirer on my favorite western movies of all time.

Lupercal · « **Reply #18 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 12:49 »

They both have their merits. I suppose Alien leaves you wanting Ripley to survive, whereas Aliens leaves you wanting to see Ripley blow that motherfucker away. I would love to say more but I haven't watched either of these films in a while and need a fresh perspective on them I think.

Hidden question 3: Prometheus - ruins all mystery of Alien and asks a load of questions it never answers! Discuss

Pilchard123 · « **Reply #19 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 13:13 »

I wondered when Prometheus was going to come up.

That's about as much as I can contribute, since I've never seen any of them.

EDIT: Also this, and a recommendation to never Google "My Little Xenomorph"

http://eruna.deviantart.com/art/My-Little-Xenomorph-Dark-Star-66290104

ackblom12 · « **Reply #20 on:** 04 Dec 2012, 21:24 »

Prometheus had a lot of problems, but explaining the origin of the Aliens isn't one of them for me. The plot holes, the terrible characters, the terrible dialogue, the terrible script in general were all irritating. Irritating in part because it's a part of this world's mythology, but also because Ridley Scott has no damn excuse for how badly everything turned out.

Blyss · « **Reply #21 on:** 05 Dec 2012, 12:50 »

Alien was one of those movies I watched as a kid, and just left me breathless. It was amazing, largely in part of the style, and because it had simply not been done before. I remember this movie very fondly, and it's definitely in the top 10 movies that I've seen in my lifetime. That said -

Aliens is sometimes one slot above, and sometimes one slot below Alien on that list, depending on what I'm in the mood for. That was damn near perfection in terms of mood, tempo, tension building, and climactic explosion. (No, that last one is not actually a term, but it is MY term)

Alien 3 was a disappointment for me initially, because of the fact that I'd read the comics, and they had a HUGE departure from them at that point. That was not what I was expecting at all, and considering that Newt and Hicks both had a huge role in the comics... Yeah, them dying offscreen before the movie even started, was more than just a small letdown.

Resurrection... I like it and dislike it for several reasons. I like the cast quite a bit, I like a large portion of the story, but by the time this movie got made, they'd started getting rather schlocky with the whole, "Well, we know that no one else has successfully controlled this insanely dangerous creature, but we will succeed where they failed, because, well, fuck them. They thought they were so smart."

Prometheus is nothing but a half-assed, huge disappointment.

Those first two films, though, were something that actually made me think about a lot of things when I was younger. I still love them both to this day.

Lines · « **Reply #22 on:** 06 Dec 2012, 06:48 »

I remember seeing Aliens before Alien, but I LOVED Aliens when I was a kid. I had Ripley and Queen action figures. (I think I still do somewhere in my mom's basement...) It took me a little longer to fully appreciate Alien, but I really like it now. Alien 3 is still ok. I hate Resurrection (minus casting choices) and Prometheus I have to regard separate from the whole universe.

Alien - I really like the horror aspect that is, "I am stuck in the middle of nowhere with a crazy robot and a monster that want to kill me." It has more of the minimalist aesthetic that is popular in space sci-fi movies which definitely adds to the horror aspect of the film. I think all of the characters were well done and generally is a good example of how sci-fi can easily blend with horror to create a fantastic, jarring film.

Aliens - Definitely more of an action movie, but Ripley definitely let's loose in this one and becomes a BAMF. Like seriously. She may not be military, but she wants revenge and she's going to get it. Also her relationships with the other cast members creates some interesting tension that was a little bit lacking in the first film simply because there are more personalities to offer. Also there definitely is more maternal instinct and it definitely gives a good example of the lengths mothers will go through to protect their children, on both sides. There is a lot more conflict, imo, and that's what really makes this movie interesting. Also the loader scene is easily one of my favorite movie fight scenes with, "Get away from her, you BITCH," being one of the best taunts ever. (Can you tell I love this one?)

Alien 3 - Kind of goes back to the isolation theme of the first movie, but this time in a sparsely populated prison. It added a bit of male domination horror, but this eventually subsides because the guys realize that hey, Ripley is still a BAMF. I mean, she jumps into some molten metal to make sure the last alien dies. That's pretty badass. The other characters are a little meh, though, other than Dillon and Clemens. So while it's a decent addition to the series, it's not the best. (Also Hicks and Newt's deaths made me mad.)

Resurrection - The aesthetics, the plot, the characters...ugh. I mildly disliked it in the beginning, but I pretty much can't stand it now. I just do not like this one and wish it hadn't been made.

Prometheus - Beautiful, but So. Many. Plot. Holes. And it generally just did not make much sense. I really like David's character and it shows an interesting chronological progression of the android personalities, but that's about all I liked. I've only seen it once and I will probably watch it at least once more. Even though I'm not particularly excited about it, I want a sequel because I want a better conclusion. Meaning I want an ending that actually makes sense.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #23 on:** 06 Dec 2012, 07:04 »

Quote from: Linds on 06 Dec 2012, 06:48

Also the loader scene is easily one of my favorite movie fight scenes with, "Get away from her, you BITCH," being one of the best taunts ever. (Can you tell I love this one?)

I genuinely feel like this is one of the best done action scenes in the history of film making. So much is going on in the action, the characterization and a philosophical sense.

Lines · « **Reply #24 on:** 06 Dec 2012, 07:19 »

Ditto. Also:

LeeC · « **Reply #25 on:** 06 Dec 2012, 07:35 »

I'm a bit excited for aliens colonial marine so we can get some of that alien action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBIpUEjFFHA

Lines · « **Reply #26 on:** 06 Dec 2012, 07:44 »

If only I didn't suck hardcore at FPSs....

LeeC · « **Reply #27 on:** 06 Dec 2012, 07:50 »

well you can play with 4 players co-operatively during the story mode.

I also like that they "nerded out" on the aliens colonial marines tech manuals. Unlike the AvP games of the past this feels a lot more like the marines of the movie.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #28 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 04:33 »

So I just watched Alien and Aliens again over the last few days and they are still so damn good. I had completely forgotten that Aliens is 150 minutes in length, and I could never claim it feels that long at all. They don't even encounter their first alien until more than an hour into the film.

Also, one other detail I forgot about in Aliens. The hive actually doesn't bother to do anything to the marines until they kill a hatchling. Not that I think they were planning on leaving them be if they didn't leave immediately, but it's an interesting thing to be reminded of considering the themes of the film.

I've still got to get Kat to watch these films.

VonKleist · « **Reply #29 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 04:54 »

I rewatched 'Alien' because I read somewhere that they re-used the set designs, or at least were heavily inspired by the glorious sets in it, when they made '2010 - The Year we made contact'.... and man does everything look good. Didn't even remember the interior of the alien spaceship looking that great. Good thing Dan O´Bannon met Giger, Moebius and Chris Foss at the set of Jodorowsky's Dune.
Ah..the potential..

ackblom12 · « **Reply #30 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 05:03 »

When you say Dune, all I can think of is David Lynch.

David Lynch's Dune was... special.

But yes. I definitely mourn this potential.

VonKleist · « **Reply #31 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 05:54 »

Exactly! And didn't they use the design from picture "IV" for one of the weird sculptures in 'Prometheus'?

Because a) it totally looked like that fathead and b) it said "based on original designs by HR Giger" in the credits!

I still love the 1984 Dune because it too had some seriously cool design going on despite all it´s obvious flaws, but let´s not get into that.

Bev · « **Reply #32 on:** 11 Dec 2012, 03:57 »

Alien - Best thriller

Aliens - Best sci-fi action

Aliens - Best sleep inducing method. Seriously, I watched the directors cut and it's actually WORSE! It's one of those movies that you come back to thinking "it can't be as bad as I remember, I'm an adult now, maybe it's actually really good and everyone else is wrong". Then you watch it and realise it has no redeeming factors at all. I feel sorry for all involved, and it's well worth watching the behind the scenes stuff to see just how this mess came about.

Blyss · « **Reply #33 on:** 12 Dec 2012, 11:53 »

Quote from: Bev on 11 Dec 2012, 03:57

Seriously, I watched the directors cut and it's actually WORSE!

The director's cut was a lesson to me in WHY some things are taken out of movies. In this case, less was definitely more. Hudson's little speech was atrocious, and I wince every time I see it. I much prefer the theatrical release to the director's cut, in this case.

Kugai · « **Reply #34 on:** 12 Dec 2012, 20:55 »

Game over man, game over!

Lines · « **Reply #35 on:** 13 Dec 2012, 06:16 »

"What are we gonna do?"
"Maybe build a fire and sing a couple of songs! Why don't we do that?!"

Blyss · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 Dec 2012, 11:35 »

Quote from: Kugai on 12 Dec 2012, 20:55

Game over man, game over!

Heh, no. I don't mind this. In the director's cut, he has a full on marine jargon overload speech while they are on their way to the colony. It's pretty horrific to watch. Over the top even for space marines.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #37 on:** 13 Dec 2012, 11:46 »

I recall reading an account of the film studio asking Ridley Scott to do a director's cut of the first film. Apparently they forced him off the project when the only change he made was removing a total of about 1 minute from the beginning of the film.

Edit: Watching these two movies makes me really miss practical FX in big budget films.

Kugai · « **Reply #38 on:** 14 Dec 2012, 19:47 »

Quote from: Blyss on 13 Dec 2012, 11:35

Quote from: Kugai on 12 Dec 2012, 20:55
Game over man, game over!

Heh, no. I don't mind this. In the director's cut, he has a full on marine jargon overload speech while they are on their way to the colony. It's pretty horrific to watch. Over the top even for space marines.

Oh Grud, you mean this

Blyss · « **Reply #39 on:** 15 Dec 2012, 17:57 »

I can't check the link at work - but I will assume that you found what I was talking about. And yes, it is incredibly bad.

Alex C · « **Reply #40 on:** 15 Dec 2012, 20:26 »

I'm just gonna talk about James Cameron for a sec because Aliens is one of the things he's done that I liked.

I have a really ambivalent relationship with James Cameron's work and I wish he was less successful. Not because I wish ill upon the guy, but because I think there is a direct correlation between how much he is reined in by outside forces and the quality of his work. T2 & Aliens things held together because he understood and ruthlessly leveraged the way audiences tend to quickly become protective of family units, even if it's one as impromptu as Ripley-Hicks-Newt* or the Connors and a killing machine who can't act.** But you get into human relationships less clear cut or world building more complicated than that and suddenly the dude gets lost up his own asshole. I really wish he had a wider emotional palette than that because honestly, nobody frames a shot better than Cameron. The only one who disappoints me more is probably David Fincher.

I know I'm in the minority on this though given that people watched Avatar and Titanic like 80 hojillion times for some reason.

*

(click to show/hide)

**Actually, I unabashedly love Ahnuld, but it must be said that Conan and the Terminators were perfect for him because they openly played to his limitations.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #41 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 11:00 »

Titanic and Avatar were both boring as balls. Cameron is one of those directors that the part of his career that I gave two shits about is more than 20 years dead. What he did during that time was amazing, but that's it.

I know we've both talked at length about it, but Ahnuld's career will always be one of my favorites.

Lines · « **Reply #42 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 18:46 »

The Abyss is my favorite movie of his (other than Aliens). Avatar was pretty but...yeah. That's kind of it? The story wasn't that original, but the creature design and the effects were stunning. But pretty only gets you so far. The Abyss, on the other hand, also has stunning creature designs and hey, this was made a long time ago! And the story is so much more interesting! And, you know, not basically an updated, sci-fi take on Disney's Pocahontas.

I mean, just look at this guy!

And look at their home!

If you guys haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. I am really tempted to borrow it from my mom the next time I see her.

ackblom12 · « **Reply #43 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 19:17 »

Oh yeah, The Abyss was great. Though I do stand corrected on the time frame! The last movie he directed that I give two shits about was True Lies in 1994. So... 18 years that I have given no shits about his movies.

Bev · « **Reply #44 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 02:26 »

Man, True lies was the best, I really wish Cameron had tried something like that again and take a break from the sci fi stuff. Not that I'm knocking his sci fi stuff, I'm in the same boat, everything he did up until titanic was great, and the Abyss is a fav of mine too, but it's nice to branch out. It's kinda like how Peter Jackson was going to do a low budget horror film after lord of the rings, then pussed out and made the Hobbit instead, it's exciting when a director wants to dial it back a bit. As much as I'm sure we all hate the guy, Michael Bays next movie cost something like 10 mil and is barely being advertised, not because he's been reduced to cheap films but because he wants to go back to basics. I dunno where I'm going with this...

VonKleist · « **Reply #45 on:** 17 Dec 2012, 02:44 »

While we´re harping on the man, check out the new Plinkett-Review on Titanic!

And Avatar didn't look pretty to me. It was the movie-equivalent of eating a lump of cake-frosting or something. Really really sweet but also so bland it made me sick.

LeeC · « **Reply #46 on:** 03 Jan 2013, 10:41 »

strangely enough, a defense of and argument for Aliens 3

mind you the opening title sequence is atrocious in my opinion, his argument is interesting.

Lines · « **Reply #47 on:** 03 Jan 2013, 18:12 »

Quote from: VonKleist on 17 Dec 2012, 02:44

And Avatar didn't look pretty to me. It was the movie-equivalent of eating a lump of cake-frosting or something. Really really sweet but also so bland it made me sick.

It was the color palette and the glowing. If there's anything I love it's blue-green-purple glowing shit. And there was a lot of it.

VonKleist · « **Reply #48 on:** 04 Jan 2013, 01:57 »

I think I liked Abyss quite a lot! Now I´m trying to think of more blue-green movies.
Sphere, maybe? Or am I only thinking of that one because of the Alien-vibe?

Pilchard123 · « **Reply #49 on:** 04 Jan 2013, 03:25 »

Finding Nemo? That has a lot of blue-green in it.

THESE FORUMS NOW CLOSED (read only)

Author Topic: Alien (Read 13737 times)

ackblom12

ackblom12

TheEvilDog

ackblom12

ackblom12

TheEvilDog

ackblom12

ackblom12

ackblom12

ackblom12

TheEvilDog

ackblom12

ackblom12

ackblom12

ackblom12

ackblom12

ackblom12

ackblom12

ackblom12