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Author Topic: University/College  (Read 435720 times)

Barmymoo

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1100 on: 12 May 2012, 02:39 »

If I do go onto midwifery after this degree, I'll have acquired three degrees, one professional registration and one professional exemption in seven years. I find that rather ridiculous.
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

lepetitfromage

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1101 on: 14 May 2012, 07:39 »

Someone wrote over the top of the mathematician, "In memory of Dr. Carl"


Guys, I wept. 
Awww, that's so sweet. I totally would have too.

On a less serious note-
Bull Shit degree holder over here too!

....seriously....I'm sure they could have come up with a better acronym than that. Cruel jerks.
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celticgeek

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1102 on: 14 May 2012, 08:08 »

Bull Shit, More Shit, 2nd Bull Shit here.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1103 on: 14 May 2012, 08:12 »

The only B.S. degree you can get in the art school part of my university is in design. Designers, who make money while in school due to co-ops. Hmph. I don't get any shits.

I guess a BFA could be a Bachelors of Fucking Arts, but that just sounds so wrong. And I don't even know what an MAAE could stand for.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1104 on: 14 May 2012, 08:40 »

In Oxford the Bachelor of Science degree is called BSc, not BS; it is also a post-graduate degree (and is no longer awarded).  The first degree in science (like my engineering degree) at Oxford has been a BA up until recently; but now many science courses lead to a Master's as the first degree (e.g. MEng, MPhys, MChem, MCompSci, MMathCompSci - not that abbreviated, really!) - but holders of these degrees wear the BA style of academic dress.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1105 on: 14 May 2012, 09:15 »

I turned in the last few parts I needed to complete my application. I'm so excited, even if I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna get in this year.
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Barmymoo

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1106 on: 14 May 2012, 12:54 »

The Cambridge system is basically the same as the Oxford one, I think. There's also the same system for converting your BA into an MA seven years after you matriculate (usually four years after you graduate, although three if like me you took a year out in the middle) for no reason whatsoever.

I think my personal degree will be a Bloody Aimless in law.
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pwhodges

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1107 on: 14 May 2012, 13:54 »

I imagine that Cambridge is also like Oxford in that you do not have your degree until it has been conferred on you at a degree ceremony.  I have not been to a degree ceremony, so throughout my life I have meticulously put on job applications "Second-class honours in Engineering Science" rather than "BA in Engineering Science".  Note that a second in my day was what's now called a 2.1 - what's now called a third was a fourth at that time in Oxford!

I do not plan to go to a degree ceremony to collect my BA when I'm 75 or something.  That sort of thing is for people who like to see themselves in the local paper, and is unutterably naff.   I was even able to become a member of Congregation (the greater governing body of the university) without such niceties.
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Lupercal

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1108 on: 14 May 2012, 14:28 »

After writing for three hours this morning on T.S Eliot, Ezra Pound, James Joyce and Virginia Woolf, my undergraduate degree is officially finished!

Its been a bit of an anticlimactic day, but I can't wait for the future times where I don't have to study!

Now, I have to make a cover letter sound perfect in order to try and get a job at a legal publishers in Cambridge...out of the frying pan, almost.
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Barmymoo

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1109 on: 14 May 2012, 14:36 »

Really, Paul? I didn't know that! I'm not sure whether it's the case here or not, I believe they can "confer" your degree by post but you don't get to do the weird latin stuff and the finger-pulling. I do plan on going to my graduation, but there's a chance I might be living in the US by then. Who knows?
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

pwhodges

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1110 on: 14 May 2012, 14:57 »

Oxford degree ceremonies are held every two months throughout the year*; so you just arrange to go to the first convenient one.   The fee was in my day covered by the grant if you went within a year, but now I'd have to pay up.

* It keeps a regular supply of ceremonial going for the tourists!
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1111 on: 14 May 2012, 14:58 »

Why didn't you go when you graduated?
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lepetitfromage

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1112 on: 14 May 2012, 17:52 »

my undergraduate degree is officially finished!

Congrats!  :-D
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pwhodges

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1113 on: 14 May 2012, 23:35 »

Why didn't you go when you graduated?

Precisely because there was no specific date (and my family had no interest in the ceremonial, either).  I already had my first job offer, before I sat finals, and I already had a short-term job to take me up to the start date (which was the following January, to fit with internal training courses), and holidays to have, and romance to pursue, and in short I was too busy as well as too lazy to think it mattered or do anything about it.  So I never got round to it, and it didn't matter.

Granted, times were different, and it was a more trusting world.  The temporary job asked for my certificate, I said that I didn't have one yet, and no more was said about it.  That was the first and last time it's come up.
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Barmymoo

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1114 on: 15 May 2012, 00:05 »

Ah, in that case it's definitely different. Graduate degree ceremonies seem to be about every two months, but undergraduates all graduate together over the weekend closest to the end of June/beginning of July. Your college has a set date and time, and everyone processes together. Sort of a final shindig before leaving.
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pwhodges

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1115 on: 15 May 2012, 00:07 »

Actually, I do recall going to my son's do in Cambridge.
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Barmymoo

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1116 on: 15 May 2012, 03:06 »

Ugh. I found out yesterday that I have a revision supervision at 1.30 today (I realise I did know this in theory, but I hadn't written it in my diary when we were told about it over a month ago, so I forgot entirely) and that we're expected to have prepared a full exam paper under exam conditions.

The exam is not for over three weeks, and I haven't done any revision for it yet because it's the last of five. So I can either go to the supervision prepared, or I can do the paper under exam conditions which would basically consist of me sitting for three hours twiddling my thumbs and occasionally writing things like "discretion? delegated powers?" next to the questions.

ARGH. PhD students as supervisors are generally really not very good. It is so frustrating when they have a rigid view of how we should learn, and refuse to accept that we might have already figured out a different, more successful method. This is not the supervisor who was all "ESSAYS MUST HAVE HEADINGS OR THE WORLD WILL END!" (on that point - our real supervisor, who is on sabbatical, met up with us and said "don't bother with headings if you don't want, it's an American convention that doesn't exist here" so I was right about that) but apparently she has the same view. I think experience and time teaches them that there are many different and valid ways to revise.

In my view, attempting to write an exam more than three weeks before the real exam takes place is a total waste of time. Those three hours could be spent thoroughly learning and revising one of the topics on the paper, but then I would not be "fully prepared in order to discuss the questions as a group". I'm in a catch-22.

Tl;dr : my supervisor has set work in such a manner that I can either follow the instructions, or do it properly.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1117 on: 15 May 2012, 08:20 »

I like headings. Only if because it helps give me a place to pause and figure out what the crap was just said or as a short guide as to where the paper is heading next. Unless they're before every single paragraph, then that just gets annoying.

Also they take up space! And when people seem to think it's a good idea to have a page minimum on papers (which is stupid), that can really help.
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Barmymoo

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1118 on: 15 May 2012, 09:00 »

We don't have page minimums, we have word counts, so they don't make a great deal of difference. Plus the word limit is usually 1,500. You do not need headings for that short an essay!

I mean, I've got no problem with them in theory. They just don't suit my writing style. Cambridge doesn't have a style guide for essays, so I've never ever had to use them before. It was really annoying to get back an essay with no feedback on the content but masses of ranting about headings and structure, especially when all my other (more experienced) supervisors are saying my structure is improving.

Anyway, rant over. I never have to write another essay for her.
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

Lupercal

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1119 on: 15 May 2012, 09:58 »

Cambridge doesn't have a style guide for essays

...what? They have their own historically praised and widely renowned University Press but no style guide for essays?

Man.

I've also had essays back when the teacher wrote three sentences on the cover sheet "I disagree with your argument - so it was pointless" and gave a pencil tick on page 3, that was it, after 2500 words...he got a very scathing review when that module was over.
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Barmymoo

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1120 on: 15 May 2012, 12:04 »

To be honest I don't think style guides are as big a thing in the UK as they seem to be elsewhere. Perhaps people who've been to other universities can correct me, though. Obviously we are meant to have a good structure with an introduction and a conclusion, but as long as it's coherent and legible we're free to write however we like. I think that's better really; it's stupid to get a higher grade because of your font size.
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

Lupercal

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1121 on: 15 May 2012, 12:19 »

Oh, THAT's what you mean by style. I thought you meant academic/literary style, not the ins and outs of the Chicago method or how some people still use Times New Roman even though Calibri is the new standard.

In that case, fair enough. Kent has a guide that suggests various ways that you can improve academic writing (or for freshers - how to write an academic essay).
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1122 on: 15 May 2012, 13:37 »

I am required to use Times New Roman because it is required by APA style. Even though half the time I forget because Word's default is Calibri. Stupid fonts.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1123 on: 15 May 2012, 14:01 »

Can we all agree that MLA format is bullshit though?
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1124 on: 15 May 2012, 14:17 »

Well, so's APA.  I'm teaching "stat for psych" online for master's students in psychology.  The APA citation format's marginally more intuitive than MLA, but the rest is... just dumb. 

ESPECIALLY running headers. 
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Barmymoo

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1125 on: 15 May 2012, 14:18 »

Confession College thread, I have never included a bibliography in any of my degree work.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1126 on: 15 May 2012, 14:43 »

In undergrad, as a lit major professors were reasonably strict about using MLA for citations at least.  I have never had anyone stress about the finer style points though.  In grad school people are from so many backgrounds that we all do things differently, and none of my professors care.  As long as you are citing sources and your font is not crazy, they don't care.  It really only matters if you are publishing a work, and in that case you will need to reformat it based on the requirements of the journal anyways. 

One of my professors actually developed the software that became EndNote.  He says people always get nervous in his classes and stress about how to cite things because they think as the developer of a citation management tool he must be a stickler, but the reason he made the software is that he thought that all the formats were confusing and getting all the commas and periods right took too much time. 
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Lines

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1127 on: 15 May 2012, 15:05 »

Confession College thread, I have never included a bibliography in any of my degree work.

...That's just...not right. Unless you aren't citing anything?

I have gotten used to how to cite in APA. It's pretty natural for me now to just type out citations as I go. The only time it gets tricky for me is when I include images and have to cite the damn things. I hate citing images. I always say who the artist is, why is it important where I got it?

MLA is pretty similar to APA but just...stupider. Whatever. At least you don't have to do footnotes. I freaking hate footnotes. They always mess up the format of my paper. Running headers are easily ignorable and quite easy to put in, footnotes are ANNOYING.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1128 on: 15 May 2012, 16:54 »

Barmymoo, weren't you studying law?
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1129 on: 15 May 2012, 20:18 »

...and so therefore, aren't you constantly citing cases / case histories? 
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1130 on: 15 May 2012, 21:03 »

I am required to use Times New Roman because it is required by APA style. Even though half the time I forget because Word's default is Calibri. Stupid fonts.
Honestly, I've always changed my default to Times New Roman, 12 pt. (when I wasn't being a lazy undergrad and using Courier New). Was there any reason why Times New Roman size 12 was replaced not just by Calibri, but by 11 pt as the default font/size?
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1131 on: 15 May 2012, 22:45 »

I used to be able to cite the standard things from memory: book, poem, work in an edited collection, article from online database.  As I advanced I started using more weird sources: congressional hearing, part of a retail website, blogs, personal emails, letters in an archive, corporate earnings statements, a book that is a print of a microfilm of a PhD thesis...  I just use easy bib now, though sometimes I still can't find the right thing. 
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Lupercal

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1132 on: 15 May 2012, 23:52 »

getting all the commas and periods right took too much time.

Definitely time consuming, and one of my teachers gave an essay back saying that I needed to end every single footnote/reference with a full-stop/period. It didn't help that I have never done that in any of my previous essays for three years, plus the aforementioned student handbook doesn't say anything about ending footnotes with a period, as they usually end with a closed bracket. I think referencing films was kind of difficult, I never knew the country of release and just went with whatever IMDB threw at me.

I'm pretty sure Times New Roman has been the norm for about forever, and there are plenty of people out there who see it as a formal and now frankly dated font. Calibri seems more rounded and a bit easier on the eyes, but I've just rediscovered Veranda, so you know, exciting things happening in my world right now.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1133 on: 16 May 2012, 01:04 »

I am studying law, yes. I cite cases and articles all the time, but in the body of the essay, so for example I might write:

The requirements for a valid easement were set out in Re Elleborough Park (1956) and are ...

or maybe I'd write

Dicey (1926) believed that Parliament was absolutely sovereign, but...

None of the work I do during the year is graded (well it is, but only as a guideline for the exams) and we're not required to write bibliographies for exams. In fact I think if someone did waste their time doing that, the examiner's report would be highly scathing. When I write a dissertation next year I will have to provide a bibliography, because that's graded work that forms part of my final degree.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1134 on: 16 May 2012, 02:27 »

(I like the idea of a forum finishing my sentences  :mrgreen:)

OK, that actually sounds pretty weird. At least over here you can get at least a 6-month suspension for not citing the entire source (to the level where it can be considered plagiarism). Full name of author, full title, edition, place and year of publication...

Out of interest, what are your examinations like? Not assuming anything, just wondering.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1135 on: 16 May 2012, 05:16 »

Honestly, I've always changed my default to Times New Roman, 12 pt. (when I wasn't being a lazy undergrad and using Courier New). Was there any reason why Times New Roman size 12 was replaced not just by Calibri, but by 11 pt as the default font/size?

I don't remember 11pt becoming the new standard. But since the APA manual says 12 pt. TNR is the standard, that's the standard. When the next one is published and it changes fonts, I'll change fonts then. (Because really I don't give a crap what font I use so long as it's not one of the stupid ones, like Comic Sans or Papyrus.)
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1136 on: 16 May 2012, 05:37 »

My go-to font is Palatino Linotype, 11pt. I just like the look of it. As long as we're not making the size huge, have obnoxious colours and the whole thing looks consistent, our tutors don't really care. It also adds to making things a little more interesting and shows some thought media-wise. Calibri looks so bland to me, which is probably why it's standard.

I just have my sources linked in the last page.

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1137 on: 16 May 2012, 05:46 »

I like Century Schoolbook, though it's too spaced out to be sensible for large amounts of text.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1138 on: 16 May 2012, 06:36 »

I'm pretty sure Times New Roman has been the norm for about forever, and there are plenty of people out there who see it as a formal and now frankly dated font. Calibri seems more rounded and a bit easier on the eyes, but I've just rediscovered Veranda, so you know, exciting things happening in my world right now.
I don't think there's anything much wrong with TNR for any kind of even semi-formal writing. I don't think any lecturer at my uni ever cared about anything other than legibility in the font.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1139 on: 16 May 2012, 06:48 »

(I like the idea of a forum finishing my sentences  :mrgreen:)

OK, that actually sounds pretty weird. At least over here you can get at least a 6-month suspension for not citing the entire source (to the level where it can be considered plagiarism). Full name of author, full title, edition, place and year of publication...

Out of interest, what are your examinations like? Not assuming anything, just wondering.

Our exams: we have 3 hours to answer four questions, for each of our subjects (I'm taking five papers so fifteen hours of exams in total, thankfully all on different days).

Because I'm studying law, the questions are split between being essay questions and being problem questions where we're given a fictional fact pattern and we have to identify the legal issues and relevant cases, and write an answer generally advising one of the people in the scenario on their legal options. So for example there might be a fact pattern about a couple who were married and one person legally owns the house, and the other puts money towards the mortgage, and the legal owner secretly gets another mortgage and lies about marital status, then obviously can't pay, and then runs off and etc etc. Those are hard!

Essay questions are often something like "This quote from a judgment/article about something makes a radical statement about a controversial area of law. Do you agree with it?" and then we have to explore the issue and mention the views of various commentators, plus the relevant legislation and case law, and come to a reasoned and supported conclusion.

Obviously you get higher marks for saying "Farrington D. (2006) conducted the Cambridge Study which looked at the risk factors for youth offending and found that..." rather than "the risk factors for youth offending are...". But since we're not allowed to take any kind of reference notes or anything at all except a totally un-annotated statute book (with the legislation but no commentary), they certainly don't expect us to cite all the publication details. That would be ridiculous, no one has that kind of memory - and it would be unfair to penalise people because they didn't learn the publisher!
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

Carl-E

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1140 on: 16 May 2012, 07:20 »

I think the term "standard" in reference to fonts is actually saying what the latest version of Word uses.  Which is now Calibri, 11 pt. 


I still prefer NTR 12 pt. and set it as my default. 




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Lines

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1141 on: 16 May 2012, 07:46 »

I have a lot of fonts I like, but when it's for a paper, all I care about is legibility. For websites or designs or webpages, then I care a lot more.
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lepetitfromage

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1142 on: 16 May 2012, 08:04 »

Same here. Whenever any professor assigned an essay, they'd always follow up with "Make sure you include a bibliography or you'll be doomed to an eternity in Hell expelled for plagiarism."

And....Calibri annoys the crap out of me. It was pounded into my skull that if you ever write ANYTHING that is supposed to be formal/professional it should be in TNR, 12 pt. I use that font more than any others, but if I'm feeling whimsical I'll use Centaur or Century Gothic. Most things are done in 12 pt, but everything is always in an even numbered size....I just can't help that one. (Unless I'm making handouts for my currently non-existent students- then all bets are off and I use the most ridiculous font I can find/whatever fits the lesson. They get a kick out of it.)
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1143 on: 16 May 2012, 08:04 »

I got a mail from the master's programme I applied for. I had the impression I was only barely qualified but I'm getting an interview! That means my admission is a 'maybe' and I can still turn it into a 'yes'. So thrilled! The interview is in English, so I hope I can make myself intelligible. As you can probably tell, written English is no problem for me but my pronunciation is terrible, mostly because a lot of syllables often don't get past my foreign-language-impaired lips, and I'm not as quick in forming sentences as I am when I can take my time sitting behind a keyboard.

Still, yaaay!

On the topic of fonts: I remember a study that indicated that text written in unconventional, harder-to-read fonts are better remembered by people than texts written in Calibri. This can be useful when you have a lot of required reading in Word format; you change the font of the entire thing into something like Informal Roman, and see if you can remember it better afterwards. Never had the chance to try it, though.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1144 on: 16 May 2012, 09:27 »

ooo ooo This is a thing I have studied.

Yes and no. 

Making things more difficult to process, by using a crazy font or colors or color coding a chart instead of labeling the lines or putting a lot of "chart junk" on them can increase retention because it forces the reader to interact with the material.  The more you interact with material the more likely you are to get it past your working memory and to actually encode it.  With charts it also helps people to make better conclusions about the data.  The downside is that since it requires more processing power it is more mentally draining.  If you wrote a 6 page paper in something scripty it is much less likely your reader would finish it.  It can be useful to highlight key passages though, suddenly changing the font to a more difficult one for a few words or sentences will slow the reader down at these points increasing retention (as well as making it clear that these bits of info are important).  It is a good way to introduce a key fact or definition or an important relationship but any deeper examination of the issue should still be easy to read. 
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1145 on: 16 May 2012, 09:52 »

Kat, can you shed any light on why my administrative law textbook sends me into paroxysms of rage? (Other than content, that is.) The body of the text is written in some fairly standard serif font, like Times New Roman or something, but whenever they quote - usually very lengthy - extracts from other works or from case judgments, they use a really basic sans serif font with very thin rounded letters, and it drives me mad. I actually hardly ever bother to read those bits, which is really not good.

On the plagiarism thing, I'm intrigued. I think it must be to do with your approach to what you're doing. Here, the exams and essays are simply to test your understanding and retention of the material. We're not meant to be writing a new and ground-breaking article, we're meant to be demonstrating that we know what we're talking about and have thought about it. Obviously for dissertations we have to cite anything we reference, but do you seriously have to put the publisher, date, etc. every time you reference anything anyone else has ever said? For instance, if you say "Legal commentators such as TRS Allan believe that Parliament is not sovereign" you would have to find a reference for a published work which proves that TRS Allan believes that?

I can totally see why you're not allowed to write "I have come up with this new and clever argument all on my own and it's definitely not just lifted from a textbook by Gray and Gray hoooo no of course not", but I don't quite understand how you can have a bibliography for an essay that is mostly referencing cases (which the examiner will know backwards, being experts in the field) and occasionally the general views of an academic.
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

schimmy

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1146 on: 16 May 2012, 10:49 »

To be fair, your case is a bit unusual - if you give the name of the case, it will presumably be very easy for someone to track it down and check you're not lying.
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Re: University/College
« Reply #1147 on: 16 May 2012, 11:10 »

There's also the fact that the people marking our exams are the lecturers who wrote the exam paper, so they know what answers they're expecting. They only get 20 minutes to mark each exam (which we spent 3 hours writing) so I doubt they actually do check any refernces, but they generally know when you're bullshitting or just plain wrong.
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1148 on: 17 May 2012, 05:07 »

Ugh NO I DO NOT WANT ANOTHER REVISION SUPERVISION FOR CRYING OUT LOUD I am so sick of these stupid extra classes! I don't find them useful at all, they break up my day and I might get 15 minutes worth of useful stuff out of them, but that doesn't justify the 2 hours they take away! I thought they were all done this week, but now one of the other girls has asked if we can have an extra one on Monday, and I can't say "sorry, I don't want to come" because a) it'd be rude and b) the supervisor would think I was just skiving. hd /lks jroi2qt5 ua'o9hjta ARGH
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There's this really handy "other thing" I'm going to write as a footnote to my abstract that I can probably explore these issues in. I think I'll call it my "dissertation."

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Re: University/College
« Reply #1149 on: 17 May 2012, 05:56 »

Well we are not expected to provide reference for written exams, only papers and essays. But we're expected to quote relevant cases with their full citation (which is not as difficult in Sweden as in England, since we only have one, central legal publisher of case law reports), even in exams. To mess up your sources, even for minor papers, however, is a baaaaaad offense.
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