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Author Topic: ART  (Read 16254 times)

LTK

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ART
« on: 22 Sep 2009, 07:51 »

If we look past the anxiety sweat and depression tears that went in the latest comics for a bit, it's clear that there also went some fresh artistic blood in it. Let's discuss that, shall we?

I'm under the impression that jeph is trying to make his characters looks less comicy and more lifelike, going in the direction of LucidTV. It's most evident by the faces; I can see that Hannelore's eyes are smaller, and so are Faye's and Dora's. That, or the irises are larger. Hanners' hair also looks less foofy and more tangly, and she's even got a new nose!

There are also some new head perspective angles, like Hanners' in 1496-2 tilted forwards and Dora's in 1497-2 backwards. They're certainly not perfect - Dora's torso looks kind of weird there - but it's good to have some change nevertheless.

Also: Holy crap, 1500 comics by the end of the week!?
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Rikushix

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Re: ART
« Reply #1 on: 22 Sep 2009, 17:29 »

I'm going to be blunt: I think Dora's updated facial animation in the latest comic looks much too forced. In the last panel, she looks almost robotic. Faye is considerably better though. This is all just my opinion anyway.

I know Jeph is trying to branch out. It's a commendable effort.
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nichidani

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Re: ART
« Reply #2 on: 22 Sep 2009, 17:43 »

I really really like the new hair, everyone's hair seems to be more realistic and I like it a lot. I am a big fan of Hannelore's new nose, and how sunken her eyes look.

No complaints, not because I am an ass-kisser, just because I genuinely like the direction in which the art is moving
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Carl-E

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Re: ART
« Reply #3 on: 22 Sep 2009, 20:40 »

Jeph tried that looking-upward pose once before, a long time ago (in the first apartment, I think Faye had the yellow dress on.  Anyone up for an archive dive?)  Marten was sitting on the couch with his head back.  This is a pose that's really hard to draw, because ofthe way the chin and neck distinguish themselves without any edges.  When we look at someone in that position, we see the chin because it's more forward, thanks to stereoscopic vision.  You don't have that in a comic... 

It looked really weird that time, long ago.  It looks considerably less weird now.  It's not the uncanny valley or anything, I think Jeph messed with the drawing so much (trying to get it right) that a few details are off (mainly the mouth, I think - it looks like it was partially erased and redrawn several times). 

The eyes lost the anime/manga eyelashes that the girls had.  I think that was one of the things that made the girls "cute".  They're less cute now?  No, just different.  Some people (not me) won't like different.  I think they're still cute!  The boys never really had 'em...

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Captfamous

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Re: ART
« Reply #4 on: 23 Sep 2009, 11:04 »

In 1497 - I really like the perspective experimentation. Dora's face in panel two has some issues coordinating the perspective-sizing with the angles of her nose and mouth, but Faye's face in panel 3 looks pretty awesome. Overall, I think it's much better, and far more unique.
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bicostp

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Re: ART
« Reply #5 on: 23 Sep 2009, 11:09 »

Dora's eyes kinda look weird in the last panel of #1497.

Props to Jeph for trying different things though; there's a lot of comic artists out there who just stick with the same drawing style for years on end and never change.

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The eyes lost the anime/manga eyelashes that the girls had.

I kinda miss that too. It looks like he tried it with #1496 (look at Hannelore's left eye) but left it out of the final product. It may or may not fit in with the latest style revision (gonna have to try some Photoshoppery to see what it looks like), but it's just one of those little details you don't really notice much until it's gone.

LTK

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Re: ART
« Reply #6 on: 23 Sep 2009, 11:48 »

In 1497 - I really like the perspective experimentation. Dora's face in panel two has some issues coordinating the perspective-sizing with the angles of her nose and mouth, but Faye's face in panel 3 looks pretty awesome. Overall, I think it's much better, and far more unique.

I wholeheartedly agree. Jeph's definitely got that sneering "[sarcasm]" face down perfectly.

I also just noticed: Dora seems to be administering hug therapy to both sides of the breakup.

There's one more thing that I can't quite put my finger on. You can see it in the whole of 1497, it just pleases the eye more than the earlier comics somehow. Maybe it's the shape of their heads? The refined hair detail? There's just something that makes it feel more... real.
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Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

Captfamous

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Re: ART
« Reply #7 on: 23 Sep 2009, 13:06 »

There's one more thing that I can't quite put my finger on. You can see it in the whole of 1497, it just pleases the eye more than the earlier comics somehow. Maybe it's the shape of their heads? The refined hair detail? There's just something that makes it feel more... real.

I agree. I went back to compare 1497 with 1494. If you look at them side by side, Faye's mouth, and eyes to a lesser extent, are a bit smaller in the newer one, and which creates a slightly more realistic proportion for her face. That may not be entirely it, but it's part of it.
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tomselleck69

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Re: ART
« Reply #8 on: 24 Sep 2009, 21:06 »

I'm under the impression that jeph is trying to make his characters looks less comicy and more lifelike, going in the direction of LucidTV. It's most evident by the faces; I can see that Hannelore's eyes are smaller, and so are Faye's and Dora's. That, or the irises are larger. Hanners' hair also looks less foofy and more tangly, and she's even got a new nose!

down this road madness lies


no seriously the new touches look very good and i think they are a logical extension of jeph's own style and i am proud of him in a strange way that utterly defies the mentor/catamite relationship we have
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Kaitydid08

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Re: ART
« Reply #9 on: 24 Sep 2009, 23:40 »

I also like the new QC art. I really liked Hannelore's downward tilt in 1496, but Dora's eyes in the last panel of 1497 give me the jibblies.
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MissLiza

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Re: ART
« Reply #10 on: 25 Sep 2009, 01:36 »

I really just love the updated style of the last few comics.  I'm not artist so i don't really have anything constructive or meaningful to say about it, i just plain like it!
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jeph

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Re: ART
« Reply #11 on: 25 Sep 2009, 04:52 »

Things I am doing differently on purpose:

smaller eyes w/more realistic eye shape and differently-weighted lines

more realistic facial proportions

more detail on noses, lips, and ears

more detailed hair

differing line weight

Still got a long way to go and a lot of work to do, but I do think it's an improvement. Gonna do a lot of sketching this weekend inbetween panic attacks and see if I can learn some new things.
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Carl-E

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Re: ART
« Reply #12 on: 25 Sep 2009, 06:10 »

Not to mention more realistic thumbs.  Pint size really does look creepy...

Here's hopin' Marten forces him to do an uninstall...
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lunchmeat

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Re: ART
« Reply #13 on: 25 Sep 2009, 14:56 »

Jeph, man, excellent job on the art. You've heard it all before by now but I really respect the fact that you are challenging yourself with your art. As an artist, I know what that's like, and I know the hardships and occasional frustration that can come with it (except, unlike you, I never pushed through it).

The first panel of today's strip, #1500, is amazing. The lines are awesome and the flow very well, and you pretty much nailed Dora's face. Marten's arms ans shoulders also look particularly good in that shot. (I confess, one of my major pet peeves I always had with your art was male arms. It's a small, silly thing, and in no way does it affect my opinion of the rest of your art.) I think it's also the composition of the frame - Dora and Marten are kind of squished together in a pleasing way, and Faye is on the other side, with the TV in front of them; it's a natural setting and creates just the right amount of tension in the shot. I don't know if you were thinking about all of this when you were drawing, but nice job.

Overall, congratulations on the work you're putting in, and the results you're getting out. Keep it up man.

On another note....for some reason, the third panel of today's strip really reminds me of King of the Hill, for some reason. Maybe it's Marten's eyes, and the whole "we're just standing around" thing. Hmm, yeah, it's definitely the eyes.
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ThePrettyMonster

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Re: ART
« Reply #14 on: 25 Sep 2009, 18:08 »

Things I am doing differently on purpose:

smaller eyes w/more realistic eye shape and differently-weighted lines

more realistic facial proportions

more detail on noses, lips, and ears

more detailed hair

differing line weight

Still got a long way to go and a lot of work to do, but I do think it's an improvement. Gonna do a lot of sketching this weekend inbetween panic attacks and see if I can learn some new things.
Im not quite sure if I like your new direction yet. Im sure I'll be over it in like two days. So far I've yet to see a change that hasn't been completely for the better.
You're an absolute genius.
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JD

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Re: ART
« Reply #15 on: 25 Sep 2009, 22:08 »

hey hey jeph how long will it take for you to be happy with your art?
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Re: ART
« Reply #16 on: 26 Sep 2009, 01:01 »

I don't really like the new style attempt. I know my opinion doesn't mean dick, I rarely post here, but screw it because I’m going to say my peace anyway. I don't like it. It looks too forced and unpolished. Honestly, I don't see what's wrong with the way things already are. It's a comic, let it stay a comic. It doesn't have to look real. The smaller eyes make the characters look alien-like, they don't match the faces - and I must point out that Marigold's face will be a hard transition to this style, so I say, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I don't think there needs to be any improvement, it's fine the way it is.
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Carl-E

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Re: ART
« Reply #17 on: 26 Sep 2009, 07:48 »

Well, of course it's unpoilished!  It's new! 

Remember, this started as a webcomic.  But it really evolved, right before your eyes.  Jeph has always talked about making the art better, he's an artist, not just a comic writer - oterwise, it would still look like the first few strips, and without the developments in art, I doubt the characters would have developed the same way either.  I can't imagine "The Talk" in the style of strips 1 - 30. 

This is what makes this "comic" have so many followers.  It's not just the art, or the gags, it's the growth and development.  And like any growth, there are some growing pains.  It'll settle into something more stable and comfortable soon, since it's a daily strip.  That forces Jeph to practice and abandon what doesn't work well quickly (for the sake of speed, if nothing else).  Like the weather, if you don't like it, just wait a few minutes. 

The point is, it ain't Peanuts


It's funny - when I first started reading LICD, I started into the archive, and wondered how the art had developed so far.  With that strip, it was easy - the writer just changed artists, twice! 

Talk about unnerving!
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vettechinohio

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Re: ART
« Reply #18 on: 26 Sep 2009, 12:21 »

Marten's arms ans shoulders also look particularly good in that shot. (I confess, one of my major pet peeves I always had with your art was male arms. It's a small, silly thing, and in no way does it affect my opinion of the rest of your art.)

Agreed! It's funny how such little changes in drawing style can make such a difference. The first thing I noticed in #1500 was that Marten's shirt seemed heavier, or more well defined, and that made his arms and shoulders look more manly, for lack of a better word. I dig it!
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Mr. Doctor

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Re: ART
« Reply #19 on: 26 Sep 2009, 18:52 »

I really like the new style, I mean.. for being very vew I think that Jeph did a great job.
The best things I've seen atm are:
- Hallenore second panel on 1496
- Faye second and third panel on 1497
- Faye on first panel on 1500
- My favorite atm: Dora's face o the third panel of 1500 .. really good. But I didn't like who she looked on the last one.
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LTK

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Re: ART
« Reply #20 on: 27 Sep 2009, 10:34 »

Marten's arms ans shoulders also look particularly good in that shot. (I confess, one of my major pet peeves I always had with your art was male arms. It's a small, silly thing, and in no way does it affect my opinion of the rest of your art.)

Agreed! It's funny how such little changes in drawing style can make such a difference. The first thing I noticed in #1500 was that Marten's shirt seemed heavier, or more well defined, and that made his arms and shoulders look more manly, for lack of a better word. I dig it!

I noticed that too! It certainly looks like he's got more meat on his bones right now. More than I do, at least. Dora's and Faye's faces also look very good in 1500-1, and Pintsize's thumb perspective in panel 4 looks perfect too.
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Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

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Re: ART
« Reply #21 on: 28 Sep 2009, 22:14 »

Im still not fond of the new eyes. Although they are starting to look more natural I believe the big eyes just fit better, especially on Hanners.
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JD

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Re: ART
« Reply #22 on: 28 Sep 2009, 23:20 »

Whoa, go back about 100 comics and see the difference in the art
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Mr. Doctor

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Re: ART
« Reply #23 on: 29 Sep 2009, 03:13 »

Marigold looks alot better now,I'm surprised.
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LTK

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Re: ART
« Reply #24 on: 29 Sep 2009, 04:39 »

In 1501 and 1502 Angus looking down still looks kind of weird, but for the rest his features look absolutely excellent. I also really like how the facial expressions are getting better, with Marigold in 1501-4 (snarl) and Angus in 1502-5 to 8 (surprise, suspicion, smug) for example.
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Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

talihal

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Re: ART
« Reply #25 on: 29 Sep 2009, 06:44 »

hey hey jeph how long will it take for you to be happy with your art?

The way I have experienced things with my art and my friends'/family's art, most artists are never satisfied with their art. Art is never finished, only abandoned.
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Re: ART
« Reply #26 on: 05 Oct 2009, 23:16 »

Im still not fond of the new eyes. Although they are starting to look more natural I believe the big eyes just fit better, especially on Hanners.

I agree.  The faces may look more realistic, but realistic doesn't mean better.  The big eyes had a "cuteness" factor.  By creating something that's natural looking but not quite perfect, Jeph has entered Uncanny Valley.
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Carl-E

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Re: ART
« Reply #27 on: 06 Oct 2009, 00:03 »

Jeph's nowhere near the valley.  It's just going to take some time for the style to settle in. 

The characters are looking more realistic physically, but the poses need work - the demands aof realism are heavy, and they'll either be met or backed off a little.  Some more regular sleep should help that!
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Re: ART
« Reply #28 on: 06 Oct 2009, 09:45 »

I note from Jeph's twitter that the change in the art has caused one fan to ask him to stop the guest strips!
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LTK

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Re: ART
« Reply #29 on: 06 Oct 2009, 11:05 »

I saw it too. At least it's confirmation that people are noticing something.  :lol:
« Last Edit: 06 Oct 2009, 12:07 by LTK »
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Quote from: snalin
I just got the image of a midwife and a woman giving birth swinging towards each other on a trapeze - when they meet, the midwife pulls the baby out. The knife juggler is standing on the floor and cuts the umbilical cord with a a knifethrow.

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Re: ART
« Reply #30 on: 06 Oct 2009, 13:29 »

I love the new hair, but the faces just seem off to me, and not in a positive fun improved art kind of way. I'll get used to them, they just sort of annoy me. I like the comic more...comicy.
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Re: ART
« Reply #31 on: 06 Oct 2009, 17:02 »

The new art is great. A very natural progression within the style. The body models are definitely looking more natural, and somehow the facial expressions are even more dynamic and great than they were before. I really enjoyed these last few strips quite a bit.

Go jeph go!

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Re: ART
« Reply #32 on: 08 Oct 2009, 05:53 »

I'm generally loving the new artwork, only occasionally do I find that one panel of a face seems a little awkward (but I think that's just due to me not being adjusted to the new eyes quite yet). 
The only gripe I've consistently been having recently is Faye's breasts (not that I'm staring at her chest or anything, I just noticed, is all...).  They seem unreal now, too rounded and high up on the body.  I feel my concern is best illustrated in her profile in the last panel of 1509--they don't seem natural. 
Does anyone else feel this way?
And, I agree with the others in saying that I think everyone's slightly altered hair has been the best of the changes
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Carl-E

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Re: ART
« Reply #33 on: 08 Oct 2009, 06:04 »

I think Jeph needs big-breasted models with better bras to work off of.  Most larger women don't get a good fit, feeling that "strapping the girls down" is the best alternative.  Part of that's the fear of gravity, too.  So you see the mashed look a lot.  At least they're not multi-boobs from overflowing cups...

It could just be the result of visiting that gym... she really looks like she's going with the sports bras all the time now, and that's not really the best thing! 
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Re: ART
« Reply #34 on: 09 Oct 2009, 03:34 »

I think Jeph needs big-breasted models [...]

Don't we all?
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Re: ART
« Reply #35 on: 10 Oct 2009, 02:26 »

I think Jeph needs big-breasted models with better bras to work off of.  Most larger women don't get a good fit, feeling that "strapping the girls down" is the best alternative.  Part of that's the fear of gravity, too.  So you see the mashed look a lot.  At least they're not multi-boobs from overflowing cups...

It could just be the result of visiting that gym... she really looks like she's going with the sports bras all the time now, and that's not really the best thing! 
Hmm...It seems to me, though, that Faye is exactly the sort of person who'd go to an artisan bra-maker or specialist boutique; after all, she has been swapping fancy fashion hook-ups with Angus...
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Re: ART
« Reply #36 on: 10 Oct 2009, 10:39 »

I know nothing about art, but I like what I see.  And even if the art were bad, I would still read the comic as long as it made me laugh.

I feel the same way about video-game graphics.

I'm under the impression that jeph is trying to make his characters looks less comicy and more lifelike, going in the direction of LucidTV.

Speaking of which, does LucidTV still update?  Maybe I bookmarked it wrong, but it's been on the guest strip by Lem for months now.  Can someone clear this up for me?  It makes me sad, because I loved LucidTV.
« Last Edit: 10 Oct 2009, 10:40 by The Duke »
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Mr_Rose

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Re: ART
« Reply #37 on: 10 Oct 2009, 13:35 »

Also about vintage frames, don't forget. And the "thrift store" was at least medium-fancy or Angus wouldn't have noticed that she was wearing hand-picked vintage stuff, rather than generic "old crap",  in order to ask about it.
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Re: ART
« Reply #38 on: 11 Oct 2009, 09:23 »

Speaking of which, does LucidTV still update?  Maybe I bookmarked it wrong, but it's been on the guest strip by Lem for months now.  Can someone clear this up for me?  It makes me sad, because I loved LucidTV.

not really but do not worry i am not through with comics or asshole doctors, something will be along to fill the void eventually
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Re: ART
« Reply #39 on: 19 Oct 2009, 04:11 »

alright, so I'm changing my mind a bit as the comic goes on. the art changes on Dora are fantastic; I'll admit that. Marten's dad is drawn well, though Maurice seems to have a strange and bumpy head (is that just me?) and Marten's profile is still pretty wonky. Jeph is getting there, though, and it's not like any of the art is BAD.
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LTK

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Re: ART
« Reply #40 on: 19 Oct 2009, 05:13 »

You're right, Dora's profile there in 1516 looks exceptionally good. And Marten, uh, not really: He looks all squished against the edge of panel 2 there. I see the bump in Maurice's head, I'm guessing that's a broad mouth, but it doesn't stand out very much.
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Re: ART
« Reply #41 on: 19 Oct 2009, 21:29 »

The profiles are still a bit wonky, but I thought Dora's face in the last panel was a little... weird.  maybe it's the lips and eyes, looked a little like Hanners with a kitty book or something. 

Maurice has prominent cheekbones.  Maybe wee should just call him "lumpy". 
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Re: ART
« Reply #42 on: 22 Oct 2009, 23:07 »

I think jeph has gotten better at drawing hair.
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